Everest

Tokyo · 17-05-2019 6:37pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Suggesting it isnt even a climb, and just reckless hill walking.

That's an extremely oversimplified summation of what I actually said.

Supcycle · 17-05-2019 6:38pm

Terrible too lose someone so ambitious

mikhail · 17-05-2019 7:14pm

jvan wrote: »

Unfortunately some people get it and the ones that don't, will never understand. Reading through this thread makes me angry, not angry for the deceased but for the people who think they can judge him in death for his decisions. Of course I'm sad for his family but I'm sure they know the type of personality he was and thats why they loved him.
If somebody wants to climb a steep mountain, dive a sunken wreck, float through the air from a canvass canopy, race a motorbike at speed on closed roads, row solo across an ocean more power to them. And certainly don't let anyone tell you not to push the boundaries because it doesn't suit their perceived view of how we should live our lives.

Yeah, damn all those people thinking of the poor orphans. They're obviously evil people.

Rologyro · 17-05-2019 8:45pm

jvan wrote: »

Unfortunately some people get it and the ones that don't, will never understand. Reading through this thread makes me angry, not angry for the deceased but for the people who think they can judge him in death for his decisions. Of course I'm sad for his family but I'm sure they know the type of personality he was and thats why they loved him.
If somebody wants to climb a steep mountain, dive a sunken wreck, float through the air from a canvass canopy, race a motorbike at speed on closed roads, row solo across an ocean more power to them. And certainly don't let anyone tell you not to push the boundaries because it doesn't suit their perceived view of how we should live our lives.

Climb a steep mountain... have your newborn hold your finger.

Dive a sunken wreck... comfort your toddler when he gets scared.

Race a motorbike at speed on closed roads... provide for your family’s future.

Row solo across an ocean... give your children the opportunity to know you.

bucketybuck · 17-05-2019 9:02pm

jvan wrote: »

Of course I'm sad for his family but I'm sure they know the type of personality he was and thats why they loved him.

Yes, I'm sure the 4 year old girl has a deep appreciation of his personality alright, and will fully understand why her daddy won't be at her next birthday party.

Spleerbun · 17-05-2019 9:11pm

The posts about a "recovery mission" surprise me, given what I've been told about Everest. I was led to believe that once you go past a certain height, if you fall or get into difficulty it's nigh on impossible that anyone could save you or recover your body as that would very likely put them in serious danger themselves. Maybe he wasn't that high?

The stories I heard went as far as to say that there have been bodies frozen way up top for years, and are even used as markers on the route! A sort of "we make for the frozen guy in the green jacket before nightfall and rest there" job. Could be urban legends I suppose!

wrestlemaniac · 17-05-2019 9:13pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

The posts about a "recovery mission" surprise me, given what I've been told about Everest. I was led to believe that once you go past a certain height, if you fall or get into difficulty it's nigh on impossible that anyone could save you or recover your body as that would very likely put them in serious danger themselves. Maybe he wasn't that high?

The stories I heard went as far as to say that there have been bodies frozen way up top for years, and are even used as markers on the route! A sort of "we make for the frozen guy in the green jacket before nightfall and rest there" job. Could be urban legends I suppose!

Not urban legends at all, just Google 'green boots'

The Rape of Lucretia · 17-05-2019 9:16pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

The stories I heard went as far as to say that there have been bodies frozen way up top for years, and are even used as markers on the route! A sort of "we make for the frozen guy in the green jacket before nightfall and rest there" job. Could be urban legends I suppose!

Thats "Greenboots", a body that is passed on a busy route.

prunudo · 17-05-2019 9:18pm

bucketybuck wrote: »

Yes, I'm sure the 4 year old girl has a deep appreciation of his personality alright, and will fully understand why her daddy won't be at her next birthday party.

Why don't you quote my post in full to give it context. As I said some people will understand the risks people take, others won't. People should mind their own business before passing judgement on how someone else chooses to live their life.
But to answer your point, maybe in time his daughter will grow up knowing that her father was strong, adventurous and not afraid to conquer fears. They certainly aren't bad traits to have and to know were possessed by one of your parents.

eviltwin · 17-05-2019 9:23pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

The posts about a "recovery mission" surprise me, given what I've been told about Everest. I was led to believe that once you go past a certain height, if you fall or get into difficulty it's nigh on impossible that anyone could save you or recover your body as that would very likely put them in serious danger themselves. Maybe he wasn't that high?

The stories I heard went as far as to say that there have been bodies frozen way up top for years, and are even used as markers on the route! A sort of "we make for the frozen guy in the green jacket before nightfall and rest there" job. Could be urban legends I suppose!

Believe it or not there's at least 200 bodies on Everest.

jeremyj1968 · 17-05-2019 9:25pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

sorry now, you dont need to climb Everest to raise money for charity. thats something you want to do for your own edification.

You have to laugh at RTE though. They gave out yards when those young single lads diving off Salthill peer during the bad weather. But a man with a young family, who risks his life to climb Everest, who dies in the pursuit of an ego boost, well he's a hero of course.

I think the sooner that RTE apply their same standard to Trinity professor's taking reckless, selfish actions, the sooner we stop seeing lay people needlessly losing their lives on Everest and leaving their children without a father.

Spleerbun · 17-05-2019 9:26pm

Greenboots, jesus that's a strange old read. Pics and all, so mad.

eviltwin wrote: »

Believe it or not there's at least 200 bodies on Everest.

I thought there were a load of them yeah. Which leads me back to my initial wondering, why would they be trying to recover this Irish guy given this is so common? He must not be as high I guess

17-05-2019 9:35pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

sorry now, you dont need to climb Everest to raise money for charity. thats something you want to do for your own edification.

its like these people who cycle from Tibet to Peru for charity. trip of a ****ing lifetime more like.

Charity hikes, cycles etc tend to be big business. Take the Everest trip. Think of the employment one group brings.

Kilimanjaro trips were at one time touted to transition year students in Clonmel. The idea was that each student raised x amount that not only covered their trip but included a donation to the charity it was aimed at. I kid you not! Thankfully most students that did the climb had families to finance their jaunt with any money raised going to the charity.

beauf · 17-05-2019 9:54pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

...I thought there were a load of them yeah. Which leads me back to my initial wondering, why would they be trying to recover this Irish guy given this is so common? He must not be as high I guess

Simply because wind and snow and storms make it harder to find someone the longer you wait.

Sounds like he was still pretty high on the decent when he fell.

Budawanny · 17-05-2019 9:58pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

Greenboots, jesus that's a strange old read. Pics and all, so mad.

I thought there were a load of them yeah. Which leads me back to my initial wondering, why would they be trying to recover this Irish guy given this is so common? He must not be as high I guess

The statement means there is no hope of finding him alive , and If he is found a recovery attempt is all that can be hoped for. It does not mean an active recovery attempt is underway or will be underway

beauf · 17-05-2019 9:59pm

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

You have to laugh at RTE though. They gave out yards when those young single lads diving off Salthill peer during the bad weather. But a man with a young family, who risks his life to climb Everest, who dies in the pursuit of an ego boost, well he's a hero of course.

I think the sooner that RTE apply their same standard to Trinity professor's taking reckless, selfish actions, the sooner we stop seeing lay people needlessly losing their lives on Everest and leaving their children without a father.

...Because jumping off a pier is exactly the same thing as climbing the world highest mountain...

Budawanny · 17-05-2019 10:05pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

Greenboots, jesus that's a strange old read. Pics and all, so mad.

I thought there were a load of them yeah. Which leads me back to my initial wondering, why would they be trying to recover this Irish guy given this is so common? He must not be as high I guess

The statement means there is no hope of finding him alive , and If he is found a recovery attempt is all that can be hoped for. It does not mean an active recovery attempt is underway

Muahahaha · 17-05-2019 10:29pm

Spleerbun wrote: »

The posts about a "recovery mission" surprise me, given what I've been told about Everest. I was led to believe that once you go past a certain height, if you fall or get into difficulty it's nigh on impossible that anyone could save you or recover your body as that would very likely put them in serious danger themselves. Maybe he wasn't that high?

The stories I heard went as far as to say that there have been bodies frozen way up top for years, and are even used as markers on the route! A sort of "we make for the frozen guy in the green jacket before nightfall and rest there" job. Could be urban legends I suppose!

Bodies on Everest isnt an urban legend but using them as markers is. Its just that the body would be buried in a snow drift and then it wouldnt appear until the following climbing season when the snow melts. From there Sherpas would get the body down for repatriation to their family.

As far as rescues go if Sherpas can see the body and get to it then they will recover it. Generally they will, Sherpas have mountaineering ability far above all of their customers paying to get to the top of Everest. I met Kami Rita Sherpa a few years back at Everest Base Camp,he holds the world record for summits of Everest and is currently on 23 with a whole load of other Sherpas not far behind him on the late teens. You dont go up and down Everest 23 times without accident unless you are a world class mountaineer. He definitely is as are all the climbing Sherpas operating on it.

Not only are these lads summiting Everest they are also setting up all the ropes and guiding people to the top and rescuing wherever necessary. They exert huge amounts of energy at high altitudes so all the customer has to do is put their gear on and put one foot in front of the other. While summiting Everest is an impressive feat unless you are a world class mountaineer none of it would be possible without the Sherpa support structure that is in place.

Fr_Dougal · 17-05-2019 11:15pm

Interesting documentary about the Sherpas and how the climbs are for them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6pLnf40OM0

Spleerbun · 17-05-2019 11:40pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Bodies on Everest isnt an urban legend but using them as markers is. Its just that the body would be buried in a snow drift and then it wouldnt appear until the following climbing season when the snow melts. From there Sherpas would get the body down for repatriation to their family.
.

Not disputing anything you say, but just curious then why they never brought this greenboots chap down (among others I would imagine)?
He's clearly not buried all the time if people are taking pictures of him and know exactly where he is

TheRepentent · 18-05-2019 12:07am

Spleerbun wrote: »

Not disputing anything you say, but just curious then why they never brought this greenboots chap down (among others I would imagine)?
He's clearly not buried all the time if people are taking pictures of him and know exactly where he is

They walk by him. There's a picture online where guide ropes pass by his feet.

From what I can gather the height he's at(just under 30,000 feet above sea level) makes it dangerous for anyone to try and remove him as it puts the alive climbers at risk by doing so.

bodice ripper · 18-05-2019 12:29am

IIRC, green boots was moved a few years ago, pushed off the route.

ED E · 18-05-2019 1:13am

Mayyybe I'm a cold heartless SoB but:

The family are looking for 750k to attempt to recover him. Moving in the TCD circles he does Im sure they'll get it but it strikes me as a very poor use of public generosity. He engaged in a high risk endeavour and it didnt work out. Thats sad but should the charitable efforts of the public be so heavily expended to recover a cadaver? There'll always be a more needy cause if you choose to look for one but this seems very very far down the charitable book of quantum.

Atoms for Peace · 18-05-2019 1:22am

I always presumed that the bodies of those who died we're left on the mountain.

gozunda · 18-05-2019 1:24am

Muahahaha wrote: »

Bodies on Everest isnt an urban legend but using them as markers is. Its just that the body would be buried in a snow drift and then it wouldnt appear until the following climbing season when the snow melts. From there Sherpas would get the body down for repatriation to their family.

As far as rescues go if Sherpas can see the body and get to it then they will recover it. Generally they will, Sherpas have mountaineering ability far above all of their customers paying to get to the top of Everest. I met Kami Rita Sherpa a few years back at Everest Base Camp,he holds the world record for summits of Everest and is currently on 23 with a whole load of other Sherpas not far behind him on the late teens. You dont go up and down Everest 23 times without accident unless you are a world class mountaineer. He definitely is as are all the climbing Sherpas operating on it.

Not only are these lads summiting Everest they are also setting up all the ropes and guiding people to the top and rescuing wherever necessary. They exert huge amounts of energy at high altitudes so all the customer has to do is put their gear on and put one foot in front of the other. While summiting Everest is an impressive feat unless you are a world class mountaineer none of it would be possible without the Sherpa support structure that is in place.

Bodies are generally not recovered because at or above 8000 metres or at lower altitudes - even the Sherpas risk life and limb to do so. Finding and attempting to bring down the weight of a dead body is beyond the strength and endurance of even many of the best. Dead climbers often rest where they fall or are found many years later.

There has been some concerted efforts by the Chinese authorities and others to move or otherwise dispose of bodies along the main climbing routes in recent years. A case in point is Green Boots. Afaik - it is believed that he was disposed of by pushing the body off the mountain. To date the body had certainly not been repatriated to his family for sure but it is reported that the body is no longer where he laid for many years following his death

A sad account and footage of green boots

https://youtu.be/sGmIOmWg8No

refusetolose · 18-05-2019 1:28am

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

I always presumed that the bodies of those who died we're left on the mountain.

the sherpas will attempt it if its possible
if the price is right

gozunda · 18-05-2019 1:43am

refusetolose wrote: »

the sherpas will attempt it if its possible
if the price is right

They risk their lives to do so. Operating in a high altitude and low oxygen environment, even for Sherpas the recovery of bodies is extremely dangerous. The question remains should they risk their lives for the recovery of a dead body? That some do - perhaps explains more about them as people than any financial compensation for doing so.

Yurt2 · 18-05-2019 1:51am

ED E wrote: »

Mayyybe I'm a cold heartless SoB but:

The family are looking for 750k to attempt to recover him. Moving in the TCD circles he does Im sure they'll get it but it strikes me as a very poor use of public generosity. He engaged in a high risk endeavour and it didnt work out. Thats sad but should the charitable efforts of the public be so heavily expended to recover a cadaver? There'll always be a more needy cause if you choose to look for one but this seems very very far down the charitable book of quantum.

75k

Hoboo · 18-05-2019 2:01am

ED E wrote: »

Mayyybe I'm a cold heartless SoB but:

The family are looking for 750k to attempt to recover him. Moving in the TCD circles he does Im sure they'll get it but it strikes me as a very poor use of public generosity. He engaged in a high risk endeavour and it didnt work out. Thats sad but should the charitable efforts of the public be so heavily expended to recover a cadaver? There'll always be a more needy cause if you choose to look for one but this seems very very far down the charitable book of quantum.

People are entitled to spend their money as they they wish. It's private money not public so doesn't concern anyone but the donor and recipient.

refusetolose · 18-05-2019 2:03am

Yurt! wrote: »

75k

gofundme page says 750k

NIMAN · 18-05-2019 2:08am

If it was just a matter of raising money to get a body retrieved from the mountain, then why is there approx 200 of them still up there?

tuxy · 18-05-2019 2:12am

refusetolose wrote: »

gofundme page says 750k

Many of the people donating on that page are leaving a message to say they hope he is found safe and well.........

refusetolose · 18-05-2019 2:14am

NIMAN wrote: »

If it was just a matter of raising money to get a body retrieved from the mountain, then why is there approx 200 of them still up there?

well i suppose some of them are impossible to get at or maybe lost
others don't have the money i guess
maybe others told their families to leave them there if anything happens?

tuxy · 18-05-2019 2:17am

refusetolose wrote: »

well i suppose some of them are impossible to get at or maybe lost
others don't have the money i guess
maybe others told their families to leave them there if anything happens?

I've head it's fair common to walk past dead bodies on the various routes.
It's madness to risk more lives to get a body but of course some sherpas will take it on if the price is right.
I would guess most families of the dead don't have the means to start a €750,000 search mission.

refusetolose · 18-05-2019 2:25am

tuxy wrote: »

I've head it's fair common to walk past dead bodies on the various routes.
It's madness to risk more lives to get a body but of course some sherpas will take it on if the price is right.
I would guess most families of the dead don't have the means to start a €750,000 search mission.

yeah, the article posted earlier from the new york times seemed to suggest that they retrieved 2 indian guys for 90k last year though so dunno whats up with the 750k

the indian guys were relatively easy to get at though,one was still on the route with his ropes tied up,frozen solid

tuxy · 18-05-2019 2:33am

I've just read the gofund me and it's deliberately written to make people think that there is a good chance he is still alive and the money raised will be used to try to bring him back alive.
Is the gofund me actually run by the family or is someone using this tragic event to make some easy money?

https://www.gofundme.com/seamus-lawless

NIMAN · 18-05-2019 2:40am

It looks like its run by his family, his wife's name is on it.

I'm wondering what exactly insurance would cover you for when climbing Everest?

Yurt2 · 18-05-2019 2:50am

The RTE article states 75k.

I think it's important to be accurate, as in typical After Hours fashion, there's a confederation of know-it-alls in full swing trying to frame him and his family as greedy and irresponsible.

Stay classy AH.

tuxy · 18-05-2019 2:53am

Yurt! wrote: »

The RTE article states 75k.

I think it's important to be accurate, as in typical After Hours fashion, there's a confederation of know-it-alls in full swing trying to frame him and his family as greedy and irresponsible.

Stay classy AH.

You confirmed my suspicions this go fund me is a fraud! Don't donate.
https://www.gofundme.com/seamus-lawless

They even have a mistake included saying he went missing on Thursday the 15th of May, there was no Thursday 15th May this year!
That along with all the details stating that it is still a rescue mission to find him alive.

tuxy · 18-05-2019 2:55am

NIMAN wrote: »

It looks like its run by his family, his wife's name is on it.

I'm wondering what exactly insurance would cover you for when climbing Everest?

I believe insurance would cover helicopter rescue(weather permitting) and medical costs.
I don't think any insurance would cover the recovering of cadavers.

fits · 18-05-2019 3:59am

http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2019/05/17/too-many-deaths/

Article is not complimentary of the guiding company.

Tokyo · 18-05-2019 5:37am

NIMAN wrote: »

If it was just a matter of raising money to get a body retrieved from the mountain, then why is there approx 200 of them still up there?

To use a crude but accurate analogy.

Have you ever tried to get a chicken fillet out of the back of the freezer, where it's been frozen into the surrounding ice in the freezer? Imagine trying to do the same when:

the chicken fillet weighs 80kg (plus another 80kg of ice)
You're at the cruising altitude of a 747
Your body is shutting down
You're possibly going to die in the attempt

Most mountaineers accept that if they expire on the mountain, that's to be their final resting place. And there has been an ongoing campaign to "inter" their bodies on the mountain as of late - climbing teams have lowered bodies over the edge off the main route, or into a crevasse (I'm pretty sure that "Green Boots" body was moved a few years back. But some families have footed the cost of having the bodies of their loved ones repatriated, however, I imagine that is very much dependent on the location of the climber to begin with.

Tokyo · 18-05-2019 5:40am

fits wrote: »

http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2019/05/17/too-many-deaths/

Article is not complimentary of the guiding company.

I agree with some of the overarching points in that article, however it very much tells a story of "experienced western guides" ousted by "local inexperienced Nepalese guides". Considering that virtually every western climber since 1953 has depended on teams of local sherpas to get them to the summit, it paints a very negative and biased picture IMO.

fits · 18-05-2019 6:14am

Where is Russell Brice’s company now? They don’t seem to have a presence anymore.

JustAThought · 18-05-2019 6:15am

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Interesting documentary about the Sherpas and how the climbs are for them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6pLnf40OM0

Thanks - v interesting documentary & exploding the myth that sherpas love climbing & do it for the joy. A gruelling hard life with the ever presence of the risk of death or lifechanging injury -just to earn enough to keep your family together or send your children to school.

Rest in Peace to that poor man and God help his poor wife and little family. Lets hope they never read this thread. A life is meant to be more than exististing or subsisting -and we all need a chance to follow our dreams.

fits · 18-05-2019 6:19am

fits wrote: »

Where is Russell Brice’s company now? They don’t seem to have a presence anymore.

Just had a look. Costs 70 k but their stats speak for themselves. http://himalayanexperience.com/home-2/expeditions/8000meters/everest/

fits · 18-05-2019 6:29am

mike_ie wrote: »

fits wrote: »

http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2019/05/17/too-many-deaths/

Article is not complimentary of the guiding company.

I agree with some of the overarching points in that article, however it very much tells a story of "experienced western guides" ousted by "local Nepalese guides". Considering that virtually every western climber since 1953 has depended on teams of local sherpas to get them to the summit, it paints a very negative and biased picture IMO.

I know what you are saying but this company has had five fatalities this year alone. Himex by comparison has had none in what 20 years of operation?

Blazer · 18-05-2019 6:37am

tuxy wrote: »

You confirmed my suspicions this go fund me is a fraud! Don't donate.
https://www.gofundme.com/seamus-lawless

They even have a mistake included saying he went missing on Thursday the 15th of May, there was no Thursday 15th May this year!
That along with all the details stating that it is still a rescue mission to find him alive.

Mightn't be a scam but looking for 750k to hire a team of sherpas to look over Mt Everest to find a body is absolutely farcical not to mention a complete waste of money.
Don't these people even read about Mt Everest and the other so called 8000 footers?

NIMAN · 18-05-2019 6:46am

mike_ie wrote: »

To use a crude but accurate analogy.

Have you ever tried to get a chicken fillet out of the back of the freezer, where it's been frozen into the surrounding ice in the freezer? Imagine trying to do the same when:
the chicken fillet weighs 80kg (plus another 80kg of ice)

You're at the cruising altitude of a 747

Your body is shutting down

You're possibly going to die in the attempt

Most mountaineers accept that if they expire on the mountain, that's to be their final resting place. And there has been an ongoing campaign to "inter" their bodies on the mountain as of late - climbing teams have lowered bodies over the edge off the main route, or into a crevasse (I'm pretty sure that "Green Boots" body was moved a few years back. But some families have footed the cost of having the bodies of their loved ones repatriated, however, I imagine that is very much dependent on the location of the climber to begin with.

I fully understand, hence my reason for saying 200 people are lying dead on Everest rather than being brought down.

Atoms for Peace · 18-05-2019 6:57am

JustAThought wrote: »

Rest in Peace to that poor man and God help his poor wife and little family. Lets hope they never read this thread. A life is meant to be more than exististing or subsisting -and we all need a chance to follow our dreams.

True, but at the same time it shouldn't be on the pretence of charity or risk of life to others.

Everest

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