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e-scooters to become legal in Germany

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    #122
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,429 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Also do you advocate that pedestrians should wear hi viz too?Seeing as how substantially more pedestrians than cyclists are killed by cars each year.

    Seeing as headlights don't light up anything around them what possible use could reflective gear be?


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    #123
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,138 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Is there a way they can be fitted with indicators? Some right nutjobs using them and swerving all over the road*.

    *Yes I am talking about you Mr. Organ Donor on the East Wall Road this morning heading towards EastPoint. What a cretin.


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    #124
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I'm sure appropriate hand gestures were used by all concerned...


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    #125
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,535 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    spurious wrote: »
    Is there a way they can be fitted with indicators?
    i'm sure there's a way, but as they're not made to meet legal standards for motorised road vehicles, none that i've seen are built that way.


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    #126
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Something like this....

    https://images.app.goo.gl/29kro4f629Bz1z8z9


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    #127
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    spurious wrote: »
    Is there a way they can be fitted with indicators? Some right nutjobs using them and swerving all over the road*.

    *Yes I am talking about you Mr. Organ Donor on the East Wall Road this morning heading towards EastPoint. What a cretin.

    The problem is not indicators. Its a complete lack of training and testing to use the road.

    On a side note. These scoots can never be legal as there are light requirements . For example, tail and brake lights must be a certain height from the ground. Headlights must be directional and so on. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1963/si/189/made/en/print

    I still see sellers on ebay and adverts insist they are completely legal to ride on the road here without a licence. Or CWR, tax and insurance .


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    #128
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,429 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    dashcamdanny wrote: »
    The problem is not indicators. Its a complete lack of training and testing to use the road.
    Is it though? Think of all the training and testing motorists go through and how often we see incorrect usage. I'm putting it down to eejits being eejits, and a lack of enforcement to encourage said eejits do better.


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    #129
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    TheChizler wrote: »
    Is it though? Think of all the training and testing motorists go through and how often we see incorrect usage. I'm putting it down to eejits being eejits, and a lack of enforcement to encourage said eejits do better.

    From my observations, those with zero training dont know how to use the road. How could they?

    Simple things like a glance over the shoulder (life saver) are drummed into motorcyclists in fairly intensive training. And they have mirrors.

    Rarely seen on scoots and only seen by experienced responsible cyclists.

    I wont disagree with you about car drivers, but they have the luxury of a metal cage around them.


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    #130
    .G.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,415 ✭✭✭.G.


    I agree and idiots on Dublin Bikes are the same. At least with a car, motorcycle you have to do some sort of training and will gain danger awareness from it, any toolbox can hop on a Dublin bike or an e scooter and happily endanger themselves and others without a care in the world.

    There seems to be a serious issue with road users in Ireland, regardless of mode, in that far too many seem to think stopping at red lights is optional too.


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    #131
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    .G. wrote: »
    I agree and idiots on Dublin Bikes are the same. At least with a car, motorcycle you have to do some sort of training and will gain danger awareness from it, any toolbox can hop on a Dublin bike or an e scooter and happily endanger themselves and others without a care in the world.

    There seems to be a serious issue with road users in Ireland, regardless of mode, in that far too many seem to think stopping at red lights is optional too.

    I saw too many cyclists to count going through red lights today, but it was the red van that ran the light from Stephens St across Georges St that stopped myself and everybody else crossing the road on a green man in their tracks. And it was dragging a trailer too (the thing was practically hopping off the road).

    Treating scooters and cyclists as though they are as dangerous as cars is stupid.


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    #132
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    these shared e-skooters have some heft to them. I'd guess more than the privately owned ones.


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    #133
    .G.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,415 ✭✭✭.G.


    donvito99 wrote: »
    I saw too many cyclists to count going through red lights today, but it was the red van that ran the light from Stephens St across Georges St that stopped myself and everybody else crossing the road on a green man in their tracks. And it was dragging a trailer too (the thing was practically hopping off the road).

    Treating scooters and cyclists as though they are as dangerous as cars is stupid.

    I didn't say they were, I merely noted that far too many road users aren't stopping at them and its a problem that needs addressing. Stupid is implying someone said things that were not said.

    However as far as danger goes an e scooter travelling at speed can certainly cause considerable damage, I had a very near miss a few weeks back when some tw@t on one on the footpath missed me by mm's when I stepped out of a doorway, she was absolutely flying along.


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    #134
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Treating scooters and cyclists as though they are as dangerous as cars is stupid.

    Would I be wrong in thinking you are a cyclist?


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    #135
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    It's simply physics...

    Force = mass x acceleration


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    #136
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,535 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    Would I be wrong in thinking you are a cyclist?
    not sure if serious?
    a cyclist travelling at 25km/h is carrying one sixtieth of the kinetic energy of a car travelling at 50km/h, based on reasonable assumptions for mass.


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    #137
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    not sure if serious?
    a cyclist travelling at 25km/h is carrying one sixtieth of the kinetic energy of a car travelling at 50km/h, based on reasonable assumptions for mass.

    This sh1te of bringing up cars whenever someone says anything bad about cyclists is getting old.


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    #138
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    This sh1te of bringing up cars whenever someone says anything bad about cyclists is getting old.

    Well people keeping bring up car specific things like head lights, motor tax, driving tests, etc. Also they keep bringing cycling into a thread about eScooters.

    I mean why are you asking if someone is a cyclist in a thread about eScooters....


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    #139
    steamsey
    Registered Users Posts: 686 ✭✭✭steamsey


    I cycle commute to Dublin every day so come across quite a few e-scooters each day. I've no issue with them in principal - if they get more people out of cars and buses etc then good. (Minor gripe - they like to go to front of queue at lights, take off and then bottom out at 25km/h so often require overtaking then same again after next lights).

    They're a new dynamic on Irish roads and they haven't found their place yet. We need a clear answer from our lawmakers on this - there is a great opportunity to get people around the city outside of the traditional means and reduce traffic, stress and all of that. Also - jobs. Scooter rental, servicing etc etc etc. Scooter to work scheme! - another boost for bike shops.

    Tax, insurance etc - forget about it. You'd kill them off. Same goes for cycling.

    Helmets - should be same as bikes. At your discretion and personal responsibility should dictate.

    They probably do need indicators though - can you safely take your hand off the handlebars of a scooter to indicate? With those tiny wheels? And Irish cycle paths?


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    #140
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,475 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Sonny noggs wrote: »
    This sh1te of bringing up cars whenever someone says anything bad about cyclists is getting old.

    the classification of people as cyclists get old too. I cycle, I drive, I walk, I run yet people only want to define my as a cyclist to suit their agendas.


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    #141
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    the classification of people as cyclists get old too. I cycle, I drive, I walk, I run yet people only want to define my as a cyclist to suit their agendas.
    In so much as it pertains to the discussion it is Substantive.
    Noun is used in place of Substantive in the English language.


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    #142
    dashcamdanny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭dashcamdanny


    steamsey wrote: »
    I cycle commute to Dublin every day so come across quite a few e-scooters each day. I've no issue with them in principal - if they get more people out of cars and buses etc then good. (Minor gripe - they like to go to front of queue at lights, take off and then bottom out at 25km/h so often require overtaking then same again after next lights).

    They're a new dynamic on Irish roads and they haven't found their place yet. We need a clear answer from our lawmakers on this - there is a great opportunity to get people around the city outside of the traditional means and reduce traffic, stress and all of that. Also - jobs. Scooter rental, servicing etc etc etc. Scooter to work scheme! - another boost for bike shops.

    Tax, insurance etc - forget about it. You'd kill them off. Same goes for cycling.

    Helmets - should be same as bikes. At your discretion and personal responsibility should dictate.

    They probably do need indicators though - can you safely take your hand off the handlebars of a scooter to indicate? With those tiny wheels? And Irish cycle paths?

    pot calling the kettle black


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    #143
    BeerNut
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,790 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    Movement at last.

    Looks like you will need a licence to use one. A public consultation is on the way.

    My beer blog | The Twitter | My other beer blog



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    #144
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,917 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    BeerNut wrote: »
    Movement at last.

    Looks like you will need a licence to use one. A public consultation is on the way.

    A license ffs. Typical nanny state nonsense. Car is king in Ireland and always will be. I can’t wait to see everyone sat in the horrible morning traffic when schools are back as I whizz past the single occupancy cars, breaking red lights and cycling on footpaths at my leisure.


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    #145
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,429 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    BeerNut wrote: »
    Movement at last.

    Looks like you will need a licence to use one. A public consultation is on the way.
    Needing a license is a bit mad considering they're similar enough to, and in the same category of users as, most bikes.


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    #146
    BeerNut
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,790 Mod ✭✭✭✭BeerNut


    TheChizler wrote: »
    considering they're similar enough to, and in the same category of users as, most bikes.
    They're fundamentally different to bikes because they're mechanically propelled. Trying to draft wording that deregulates e-scooters without accidentally deregulating things that are essentially electric motorbikes is probably quite tough. I'd say that's the RSA's main concern.

    My beer blog | The Twitter | My other beer blog



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    #147
    rivegauche
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rivegauche


    seems like licensing of the scooter is the intended meaning, not the rider.
    In Germany each scooter is insured and a sticker attached to the rear mudguard.
    the sticker is a unique 6 character registration which relates to insurance. It isn't a conventional car or motorbike registration plate.


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    #148
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,429 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    BeerNut wrote: »
    They're fundamentally different to bikes because they're mechanically propelled.
    Yes but in practical terms they're much less powerful than a foot on a pedal, they can do very little damage.


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    #149
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,535 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    what's the typical power rating of one?


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    #150
    MEGA BRO WOLF 5000
    Registered Users Posts: 17,438 ✭✭✭✭MEGA BRO WOLF 5000


    Saw the cops pulling over a lad on an electric skateboard about an hour or so ago, had a chat and off he skated on the road again! I have a few myself but stick to it as a hobby, mainly paths and parks. When I went about it a few years ago I couldn’t find any legislation saying I COULDNT ride on the road. VRT Told me it was no problem, fell under what a “mechanically” propelled vehicle is as its push to go and falls under the kw/hr. Has anything changed?


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    #151
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,535 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    there seems to be a lot of this 'because you need to push it up to 5km/h before the motor kicks in, it's not a mechanically propelled vehicle' going on.
    i've yet to see any reference to actual legislation or regulations which would support this claim. people seem to mix up the regulations for e-bikes with the regulations (or lack thereof) for e-scooters or boosted boards. but they're distinct in the regs, from what i know.


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