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e-scooters to become legal in Germany

  • 14-08-2018 1:53pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭ rivegauche


    https://www.autozeitung.de/plev-e-scooter-legal-194626.html
    warning: german website.


    Personal light electric vehicles will be legislated for.
    This will allow them to travel the streets like bikes do now.

    They might be obliged to carry a reg. number like mopeds with 50 euro insurance or maybe just like a bike with no insurance or reg. number.

    They will certainly remove one reason for owning a car in urban Germany where the public spaces are already bike friendly.


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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    from that article:
    Presumably, the e-vehicles are equated with bicycles and their maximum speed is limited to 20 km / h. Helmet will probably not exist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭ rivegauche


    Eine Helmpflicht wird es wahrscheinlich nicht geben
    translates as roughly:
    An obligation to wear a helmet will probably not be mandated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    Germany are ahead of the times really! We need to start pushing the government to change things. An absolute embarrassment of a country we are!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,526 ✭✭✭ munchkin_utd


    ThomasJ85 wrote: »
    Germany are ahead of the times really! We need to start pushing the government to change things. An absolute embarrassment of a country we are!
    chill, its still not legal in Germany and looks like the middle of the year before it'll come through.

    https://www.wired.de/article/e-roller-erst-ab-2019-legal-in-deutschland


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    Yes, but I believe in France it is legal. Just saying, if Germany are making them legal, we need to follow their path. People deserve an alternative to a car or motorbike.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭ dashcamdanny


    ThomasJ85 wrote: »
    Yes, but I believe in France it is legal. Just saying, if Germany are making them legal, we need to follow their path. People deserve an alternative to a car or motorbike.

    As long as they have CBT and insurance. I would be ok with it.

    These scooter riders seem to ride with blinkers on , no awareness of the dangers around them, and ride all over the road.

    Its only a matter of time before the inevitable happens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭ Del.Monte


    ThomasJ85 wrote: »
    Yes, but I believe in France it is legal. Just saying, if Germany are making them legal, we need to follow their path. People deserve an alternative to a car or motorbike.

    You mean like bicycles, buses, trains, trams and, God forbid, shank's mare - however did we manage before.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    I want to use an e scooter with airless tires. I think having electric assist bikes are still limited for going up hill. The fact is, self accelerating small vehicles can have speed limits set on them. No reason they can't be regulated and used on the road like normal bikes. We should have the right to use! Stupid lazy legislation is what caused this. They should be an option for us, like they are in other countries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    You mean like bicycles, buses, trains, trams and, God forbid, shank's mare - however did we manage before.
    Yes but not every City has them. E scooters are a viable alternative to bikes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,508 ✭✭✭✭ loyatemu


    As long as they have CBT and insurance. I would be ok with it.

    These scooter riders seem to ride with blinkers on , no awareness of the dangers around them, and ride all over the road.

    Its only a matter of time before the inevitable happens.

    CBT?

    they're no more dangerous than bikes. Yes, the inevitable will happen, it happens to cyclists and pedestrians every year, nobody (sane) suggests they should have insurance.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭ TheQuietFella


    ThomasJ85 wrote: »
    Germany are ahead of the times really! We need to start pushing the government to change things. An absolute embarrassment of a country we are!


    Say the same to the fools who drive around with only fog lights on!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭ Cookie_Monster


    they're on trial in several cities over here but govt and police are encouraging people to use the footpath rather than the road, I really don't get that...


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    they're on trial in several cities over here but govt and police are encouraging people to use the footpath rather than the road, I really don't get that...

    Over here you can't use them on the footpath or road. You can use bikes on both aswell.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Ireland will choose to copy the legislation that turns out to be the most expensive for the consumer and that produces some tax revenue to be frittered away with usual lack of accountability -> road tax and insurance no doubt.

    pretty much a given unfortunately.

    would be pleasantly shocked with any other outcome


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    they're on trial in several cities over here but govt and police are encouraging people to use the footpath rather than the road, I really don't get that...
    where's 'here'?

    when these started popping up (in the last few months for those of us who don't pass through the centre of the city itself), it caused a few double takes for me - i'd be cycling down griffith avenue in the dark and would see what appeared to be a stationary pedestrian up ahead, and start to subconsciously plan moving out, only to realise several seconds later they're still roughly the same distance from me. grand in that context, in that the scooter was moving the same direction as me, but i'd be concerned that if it was one converging on a motor vehicle, a motorist seeing what appeared to be someone standing still would assume that very thing, when it's actually a scooter moving at 20km/h+


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭ granturismo


    ThomasJ85 wrote: »
    Over here you can't use them on the footpath or road. You can use bikes on both aswell.

    No, bicycles are not supposed to be ridden on footpaths.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    glasso wrote: »
    Ireland will choose to copy the legislation that turns out to be the most expensive for the consumer and that produces some tax revenue to be frittered away with usual lack of accountability -> road tax and insurance no doubt.

    pretty much a given unfortunately.

    would be pleasantly shocked with any other outcome

    Well e-bikes have been legalised. You don't have to get them insured. The situation with the e scooter is just lazy legislation which has led to the loophole. I think its cause people were installing lawnmower motors on bikes to allow them self accelerate. This was obviously dangerous at the time.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder


    i don't think you can blame 'lazy legislation' to be fair - e-bikes are catered for in legislation because you still have to pedal them, they are pedal cycles albeit with power assist. scooters are vehicles controlled by a throttle, so at a basic level are no different to a moped. what separates them from mopeds is a quantitative rather than a qualitative measurement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭ Cookie_Monster


    where's 'here'?
    New Zealand

    Edit: seems the location tag on a users post has been removed :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    No, bicycles are not supposed to be ridden on footpaths.

    They can ridden on walkways and parks. Like the Mahon walkway is Cork has a lot of cyclists. I don't like using footpaths for cycling anyway.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭ granturismo


    ThomasJ85 wrote: »
    They can ridden on walkways and parks. Like the Mahon walkway is Cork has a lot of cyclists. I don't like using footpaths for cycling anyway.

    Your original post referred to cycling on 'footpaths' not shared ways or marked cycle paths.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/cycling_offences.html
    Article 13 of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997) makes it an offence to cycle on a footpath unless you are entering or exiting a property


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    i don't think you can blame 'lazy legislation' to be fair - e-bikes are catered for in legislation because you still have to pedal them, they are pedal cycles albeit with power assist. scooters are vehicles controlled by a throttle, so at a basic level are no different to a moped. what separates them from mopeds is a quantitative rather than a qualitative measurement.

    What exactly do you mean by 'quantitative rather than a qualitative measurement' ?. Do you mean in speed or size? I think speed and size of the vehicle should be relevent. Not wether or not they can be self motorised. They are also tiny and weigh less in comparison to e e bikes, regular motorbikes, cars. They are the size of my leg and their wheels are the size of my fists!

    I heard the current legislation is due to people installing lawnmower motors on to regular bikes, a couple of years ago, to allow for self acceleration. Obviously this is stupid and dangerous so they need legislation on that.

    e scooters have limits. They can't go faster than 25 klm an hour, similar to an e bike speed, although in theory you can go faster on e bikes, just the electric assist wont help you after 25 klm. Some have breaks similar to a bicycle break, like the Xiaomi M365 which also needs to be moving at 5 klm of speed before the motor kicks in.

    Do you not think there needs to more specific legislation on them atleast?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    Your original post referred to cycling on 'footpaths' not shared ways or marked cycle paths.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel_and_recreation/motoring_1/driving_offences/cycling_offences.html
    Article 13 of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997) makes it an offence to cycle on a footpath unless you are entering or exiting a property
    Yeah well the footpath is a grey area haha! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,053 ✭✭✭✭ _Brian


    Escooters with motors, batteries and riders are heavier than regular bikes, one hitting you at 25 kph will do substantial damage.

    License, and insurance is a reasonable expectation, tax I wouldn’t bother with to incentivise their use over cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭ granturismo


    ThomasJ85 wrote: »
    Yeah well the footpath is a grey area haha! :D

    No, its not. The law is clear on the matter of footpaths.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭✭✭ ThomasJ85


    _Brian wrote: »
    Escooters with motors, batteries and riders are heavier than regular bikes, one hitting you at 25 kph will do substantial damage.

    License, and insurance is a reasonable expectation, tax I wouldn’t bother with to incentivise their use over cars.

    E bikes are allowed but they weigh way more. Regular bikes are not relevant.

    Carrera Crosscity weighs at 18.0kg - a small foldable e bike!
    Xiaomi m365 weighs at 12.5kg - Considered to be a heavy e scooter!

    https://www.piccadillycycles.com/blog-entries/2015/3/12/does-e-bike-weight-matter
    https://www.halfords.ie/cycling/bikes/electric-bikes/carrera-crosscity-electric-bike
    https://www.banggood.com/Xiaomi-M365-IP54-12_5kg-Ultra-light-30km-Long-Life-Folding-Electric-Scooter-Intelligent-BMS-25-kmh-Max_-Load-100kg-Skateboard-Hoverboard-Balancing-Scooter-p-1112746.html?ID=233&cur_warehouse=CN[url][/url]


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭ dashcamdanny


    What is the law here in Ireland?

    As they are completely mechanically propelled they must be classed as a moped surly.


    And tax, insurance, CBT, proper legal lights, helmet required number plate required.


    Is this not the case?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭ sharper


    What is the law here in Ireland?

    As far as I know it's fairly strict and comes from an EU directive.

    e-bikes can be used without registration/tax/insurance so long as they're limited 25km/h, a motor of 250w and lack a throttle i.e. they only provide assist to the rider pealing and don't propel themselves. An e-bike that goes over any of those limits brings you into the realm of being a mechanically propelled vehicle.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#Europe

    Realistically someone is probably not going to interact with the law on this until they're involved in an accident, then they're going to be on the hook for hitting someone with a vehicle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭ dashcamdanny


    After a bit of googling, it seems they are illegal here, regardless of speed.

    An Garda Siochana says it considers electric scooters as mechanically propelled vehicles under road traffic law, meaning you must have a licence, tax and insurance to ride one on the road.

    https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2018/1114/1010894-new-bill-seeks-to-clarify-legality-of-electric-scooters-on-roads/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,933 ✭✭✭ GM228


    A few threads were I detailed about e-bikes and the relevant law. (The 250w limit mentioned 2 posts back changed several years ago).

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104204620&postcount=364

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104204920&postcount=368

    This thread in particular:-

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057697731&page=1


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