€300M Investment into Waterford City

Deiseen · 27-04-2017 7:27pm

The_Shotz wrote: »

The same place 50k people Park in Thurles or 80k in Croke Park, away from the ground. Plenty fields for parking on the old kilmeaden Road, WIT, industrial estate, Mount Sion Gaa, RSC. Plenty parking.

As for redeveloping the RSC to multi purpose, not possible to have a running track around a GAA field.

I'm sure there are ingenious ways to manage this

Harry Palmr · 27-04-2017 7:28pm

blue note wrote: »

The north quays would be a good location for this.

Hate to poo-poo this idea as well (!) but the dimensions of a GAA pitch (80 x 130m minimum) mean it's too wide to fit on the North Quay - once the stands and infrastructure was added it would be far far too small. That said if the stadium was in a North-South configuration and the Bus Eireann yard was purchased along with the Abbey Road units (S&P Heat etc) and the abandoned site just south of it then it could be done but who is going to fund it?

Oh yes imagine getting in and out of the site onto the dual carriageway, that proposed footbridge would certainly come into its own. Plus it would nearly be in Kilkenny - oh the tease!

TheQuietFella · 27-04-2017 7:31pm

The_Shotz wrote: »

The same place 50k people Park in Thurles or 80k in Croke Park, away from the ground. Plenty fields for parking on the old kilmeaden Road, WIT, industrial estate, Mount Sion Gaa, RSC. Plenty parking.

As for redeveloping the RSC to multi purpose, not possible to have a running track around a GAA field.

Pitch wouldn't be big enough anyway!

And Thurles is so easy to get out of!

Not trying to rain on your parade but in my opinion none of the places you suggested are viable options for parking en masse!
Not with the volumes of traffic that you are suggesting but then again, the concept of decent parking never
really entered in to the Irish psyche!

The_Shotz · 27-04-2017 10:34pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Pitch wouldn't be big enough anyway!

And Thurles is so easy to get out of!

Not trying to rain on your parade but in my opinion none of the places you suggested are viable options for parking en masse!
Not with the volumes of traffic that you are suggesting but then again, the concept of decent parking never
really entered in to the Irish psyche!

That's my point no ground in the country has a parking solution, Cork, limerick, Tipperary, Kilkenny, Wexford, Dublin they all have the same issues as well as traffic issues after a game.

Ireland doesn't have the infrastructure or roads to deal with large crowds at the one time.

OK my options for parking might not be suitable but what other county have suitable parking. Waterford would have to mange the same as every other county. Park a distance away in fields, available car parks and walk, and hopefully by the time you get back to the car you might get a clear Road out.

Nowlan Park I often Park out on the ring road, Thurles before the anner hotel, Cork by the boat club, limerick by the travel lodge, Croke Park O Connell school, thats just to name a few.

If Waterford had 20k attendances, a nice big filed by West pharma, walk back and hopefully quick access out to the N25 it's do-able

taytobreath · 14-05-2017 8:22pm

is it true that the listed building on the north quay has become unlisted and is due to be knocked.

Aquos76 · 14-05-2017 8:30pm

taytobreath wrote: »

is it true that the listed building on the north quay has become unlisted and is due to be knocked.

As it turns out, it was never actually a listed building, it was only been kept in the hope it could be incorporated into some new development, but it doesn't fit it to what's planned so it will be taken down soon.

taytobreath · 14-05-2017 8:31pm

Aquos76 wrote: »

As it turns out, it was never actually a listed building, it was only been kept in the hope it could be incorporated into some new development, but it doesn't fit it to what's planned so it will be taken down soon.

haha ok. thats good news

MRnotlob606 · 16-05-2017 10:47am

Bomb it, blow it up, bulldoze it, set it on fire. We don't need it, it serves no practical use cannot to be transformed into something else. It will just be there idle and in need of restoration.

IspeakcozIcan · 17-05-2017 10:25pm

Really don't think it should be bulldozed. It's an imposing 1905 Hennebique-designed structure (one of only two in Ireland, I think?). A bit of imagination and it could be transformed into something impressive.

Disappointed in this decision.

Max Powers · 17-05-2017 10:33pm

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

Really don't think it should be bulldozed. It's an imposing 1905 Hennebique-designed structure (one of only two in Ireland, I think?). A bit of imagination and it could be transformed into something impressive.

Disappointed in this decision.

Apparently a lot of the floors on it are about 5' high, so virtually impossible to have them suitable for access.(don't quote me on the 5'but something small, was in the paper.)
I'd imagine since it is reinforced concrete, changing the floor heights would be incredibly awkward structurally.I agree with your sentiment but in this case it just seems beyond practical to keep it.

Aquos76 · 17-05-2017 10:34pm

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

Really don't think it should be bulldozed. It's an imposing 1905 Hennebique-designed structure (one of only two in Ireland, I think?). A bit of imagination and it could be transformed into something impressive.

Disappointed in this decision.

The problem is many of the rooms only have 7/8ft ceilings in them and therefore its not viable for any sort of restoration at all.

IspeakcozIcan · 17-05-2017 10:50pm

Max Powers wrote: »

Apparently a lot of the floors on it are about 5' high, so virtually impossible to have them suitable for access.(don't quote me on the 5'but something small, was in the paper.)
I'd imagine since it is reinforced concrete, changing the floor heights would be incredibly awkward structurally.I agree with your sentiment but in this case it just seems beyond practical to keep it.

Thanks for the explanation.

Still it's terrible to see a building of such significance demolished. It's not like poor decisions haven't been made regarding buildings in Waterford before (& other counties, of course).

I definitely will be sad the first time I see its absence.

Sosurface · 17-05-2017 11:34pm

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

Really don't think it should be bulldozed. It's an imposing 1905 Hennebique-designed structure (one of only two in Ireland, I think?). A bit of imagination and it could be transformed into something impressive.

Disappointed in this decision.

Looks like we know now where those dreadful architects of the 1960s took their inspiration from. A dreadful dreary featureless cuboid. Tear it down, then burn it. Twice to make sure.

buzzinfly83 · 18-05-2017 12:14am

Sosurface wrote: »

Looks like we know now where those dreadful architects of the 1960s took their inspiration from. A dreadful dreary featureless cuboid. Tear it down, then burn it. Twice to make sure.

Amen to that.

Dunmoreroader · 18-05-2017 2:18pm

I'm in 2 minds about this; if knocking it facilitates the speedy building of something fantastic then I agree with you. But, there's lots of examples of these old dockside buildings being transformed into something beautiful and useful whilst retaining the heritage of the original e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Centre_for_Contemporary_Art

Max Powers · 18-05-2017 2:55pm

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

I'm in 2 minds about this; if knocking it facilitates the speedy building of something fantastic then I agree with you. But, there's lots of examples of these old dockside buildings being transformed into something beautiful and useful whilst retaining the heritage of the original e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_Centre_for_Contemporary_Art

Pretty sure the one in Newcastle didn't have that reinforced concrete floors issue.I'm not 100% but think it had steel gantries instead of floors...a much different situation.

Harry Palmr · 18-05-2017 3:08pm

Max Powers wrote: »

Pretty sure the one in Newcastle didn't have that reinforced concrete floors issue.I'm not 100% but think it had steel gantries instead of floors...a much different situation.

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/home/flour-power/176339.article

The new gallery is formed inside the original skin of the Baltic Flour Mill.The mill was originally constructed as a series of reinforced concrete cells or shafts, which set a very difficult structural problem.

The concrete cores were flour silos which also provided the structural stability to the building, yet would eventually be removed to make way for new gallery floors.The solution was to stabilise the external skin of the main building by use of a temporary space frame wrapping around it, then create a new structure within.First, with the space frame in place, the concrete was removed section by section until the building was completely hollowed out.

It's just occurred to me reading that back that they might as just as well have knocked the whole thing and rebuilt it in the exact style and detail. Would have been much cheaper.

fricatus · 19-05-2017 8:31am

IspeakcozIcan wrote: »

It's an imposing 1905 Hennebique-designed structure (one of only two in Ireland, I think?).

Anyone know where the other one is, and what it's being used for now?

Max Powers · 19-05-2017 9:40am

fricatus wrote: »

Anyone know where the other one is, and what it's being used for now?

Searched on line, think there is a smaller version in Sligo, still possibly standing and used for storage, dont know how up to date info is,was one in Swansea, now demolished.he was fairly prolific and had/has buildings all over Ireland and Europe I think.

BBM77 · 19-05-2017 1:37pm

fricatus wrote: »

Anyone know where the other one is, and what it's being used for now?

Belfast I remember reading somewhere.

http://www.geograph.ie/photo/597097

Deiseen · 19-05-2017 7:11pm

Has there been any update on this development? Didn't WCC put out a tender to carry out a survey. has it been done?

Max Powers · 19-05-2017 8:40pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Has there been any update on this development? Didn't WCC put out a tender to carry out a survey. has it been done?

I'm guessing contract stage still going, tendering, lowest price, dates etc.I'd say we'll see some machine drilling holes at some stage, how long who knows.

IspeakcozIcan · 20-05-2017 6:25am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/home/flour-power/176339.article

It's just occurred to me reading that back that they might as just as well have knocked the whole thing and rebuilt it in the exact style and detail. Would have been much cheaper.

Interesting link. So it can be done if the will is there.

DE DEISE · 07-06-2017 1:24pm

Any update on funding for this project, all seems very quiet around here lately,

Aquos76 · 07-06-2017 1:28pm

Was thinking the same alright, there was a small piece in this weeks News and Star that mentioned something ok, but wasn't very promising to be honest.

BBM77 · 07-06-2017 1:37pm

I’m trying to stay positive, that they will give the money needed. Admittedly it is hard considering the way this government has treated Waterford.

Max Powers · 07-06-2017 3:11pm

The council haven't submitted request yet, they are doing full cost benefit analysis , plus full cost estimates and designs for infrastructure needs.reporter in n&s said saw a more detailed drawing of pedestrian bridge, we know this works is more than north quays and Michael street, theres access road on north quays, services etc, all this sounds like they are doing a thorough case on this plan, getting all their ducks in a row.
I e-mailed a few td's saying they need to get behind this together, top priority.got back some replies so far saying they have made representations to the capital investment plan which is being drawn up in September, etc, etc.I e-mailed paschal donohoe and coveney too saying, this is vital, thousands of jobs, once in lifetime opportunity, private investor, etc.
I e-mailed John deasy specifically as he might possibly be best placed to have ear of new govt expenditure minister, now that he is set to be brought in from the cold shoulder he got from enda (no secret there).
Bottom line, we won't hear much on this for months i reckon, not until September probably close to when capital plan being released.capital plan can't be done until public pay negotiations sorted, and other stuff probably.
I'd advice people to contact local td's in the REGION, relevant ministers, likes of paschal,coveney, New taoiseach and stress importance, massive opportunity,, thousands of jobs, social housing, private investor, vital for region, not just Waterford, etc etc.
You can say that will do no good whatever,I believe if enough people do, message gets thru.

BBM77 · 07-06-2017 3:43pm

Max Powers wrote: »

The council haven't submitted request yet, they are doing full cost benefit analysis , plus full cost estimates and designs for infrastructure needs.reporter in n&s said saw a more detailed drawing of pedestrian bridge, we know this works is more than north quays and Michael street, theres access road on north quays, services etc, all this sounds like they are doing a thorough case on this plan, getting all their ducks in a row.
I e-mailed a few td's saying they need to get behind this together, top priority.got back some replies so far saying they have made representations to the capital investment plan which is being drawn up in September, etc, etc.I e-mailed paschal donohoe and coveney too saying, this is vital, thousands of jobs, once in lifetime opportunity, private investor, etc.
I e-mailed John deasy specifically as he might possibly be best placed to have ear of new govt expenditure minister, now that he is set to be brought in from the cold shoulder he got from enda (no secret there).
Bottom line, we won't hear much on this for months i reckon, not until September probably close to when capital plan being released.capital plan can't be done until public pay negotiations sorted, and other stuff probably.
I'd advice people to contact local td's in the REGION, relevant ministers, likes of paschal,coveney, New taoiseach and stress importance, massive opportunity,, thousands of jobs, social housing, private investor, vital for region, not just Waterford, etc etc.
You can say that will do no good whatever,I believe if enough people do, message gets thru.

Did John Deasy reply?

Max Powers · 07-06-2017 3:58pm

Only sent recently.

Deiseen · 08-06-2017 8:11am

Max Powers wrote: »

Only sent recently.

How well do Leo and Deasy get on?

Also lads no one mentioning the abysmal drop in IDA visits to Waterford. Who's to blame for this? Our TDs the IDA south east manager?

Max Powers · 08-06-2017 8:28am

Deiseen wrote: »

How well do Leo and Deasy get on?

Also lads no one mentioning the abysmal drop in IDA visits to Waterford. Who's to blame for this? Our TDs the IDA south east manager?

They're on very good terms.
We taking about that weeks ago, drop off over last year or so is down to not having a td in position to affect it.IMO, Coffey did, visits were higher, we have no one there now..

Deiseen · 08-06-2017 8:41am

Max Powers wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

How well do Leo and Deasy get on?

Also lads no one mentioning the abysmal drop in IDA visits to Waterford. Who's to blame for this? Our TDs the IDA south east manager?

They're on very good terms.
We taking about that weeks ago, drop off over last year or so is down to not having a td in position to affect it.IMO, Coffey did, visits were higher, we have no one there now..

I have agreed with you on this Max, I've said that Coffey got us those visits and we have both been slated. Interesting that Coffey supported Coveneny but leo won out in the end. Maybe Deasy might end up useful for us after all these years of being anonymous.

BBM77 · 08-06-2017 8:41am

Max Powers wrote: »

They're on very good terms.
We taking about that weeks ago, drop off over last year or so is down to not having a td in position to affect it.IMO, Coffey did, visits were higher, we have no one there now..

Considering how Deasy behaved when he was a spokesperson in the opposition (can’t remember the dept), if you were the Taoiseach would you promote him? Would you even trust him? I certainly would not.

If Coffey was still a TD I’d be confident that he would get something. I can’t see Deasy getting anything.

Teebor15 · 08-06-2017 9:13am

John Paul Phelan will be Leo's pick as the South East Rep at the cabinet table, then we're all f**ked!!

Max Powers · 08-06-2017 10:32am

Teebor15 wrote: »

John Paul Phelan will be Leo's pick as the South East Rep at the cabinet table, then we're all f**ked!!

Not necessarily, he big supporter of uhw campaign, saw him on marches myself, plus, I'd say he positive about north quays too which is priority 1 I'd say for us.

Max Powers · 08-06-2017 10:46am

Deiseen wrote: »

I have agreed with you on this Max, I've said that Coffey got us those visits and we have both been slated. Interesting that Coffey supported Coveneny but leo won out in the end. Maybe Deasy might end up useful for us after all these years of being anonymous.

That's our big hope alright, every commentator saying jp phelan going to be chief whip and many saying deasy in line for promotion too since long time allay of Leo.anything can happen of course.we have strong case for this sdz infrastructure funding,a little push is what is needed.I'd make the point again, get word out to td's, likes of paschal Donohoe, etc.

Deiseen · 08-06-2017 3:35pm

Max Powers wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

I have agreed with you on this Max, I've said that Coffey got us those visits and we have both been slated. Interesting that Coffey supported Coveneny but leo won out in the end. Maybe Deasy might end up useful for us after all these years of being anonymous.

That's our big hope alright, every commentator saying jp phelan going to be chief whip and many saying deasy in line for promotion too since long time allay of Leo.anything can happen of course.we have strong case for this sdz infrastructure funding,a little push is what is needed.I'd make the point again, get word out to td's, likes of paschal Donohoe, etc.

JP can't be publicly supportive of the north quays thou because it won't be good for Kilkenny, in fact it could be the death of retail in Kilkenny.

Aquos76 · 08-06-2017 5:06pm

Deiseen wrote: »

JP can't be publicly supportive of the north quays thou because it won't be good for Kilkenny, in fact it could be the death of retail in Kilkenny.

But the fact that he's living 2 mins from the proposed development area he'll find it difficult to not be positive about it.

Max Powers · 08-06-2017 6:05pm

Aquos76 wrote: »

But the fact that he's living 2 mins from the proposed development area he'll find it difficult to not be positive about it.

Thousands of jobs on his constituents doorstep practically, it would be crazy to not support it.

Teebor15 · 09-06-2017 12:18am

Max Powers wrote: »

Thousands of jobs on his constituents doorstep practically, it would be crazy to not support it.

From a common sense point of view it would be crazy not to.support it but this is politics where common sense is never in abundance. Phelan says nothing in support of the 24hr cardiac care which affects all his constitutes lives but goes bananas threatening to resign if a mythical line in the ground is moved which ironically benefits his constituency also..they just can't see it!

Those hospital marches were just token gestures..he really couldn't give a fiddlers!

The North Quays may be a stones throw from his house but it's just at the wrong side of the imaginary line in the ground (The county Boundary) He, like alot of his constitutes would like to see the North Quays fail as it might benefit Waterford. Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Call me paranoid but it's the truth unfortunately!

Deiseen · 09-06-2017 7:57am

Teebor15 wrote: »

Max Powers wrote: »

Thousands of jobs on his constituents doorstep practically, it would be crazy to not support it.

From a common sense point of view it would be crazy not to.support it but this is politics where common sense is never in abundance. Phelan says nothing in support of the 24hr cardiac care which affects all his constitutes lives but goes bananas threatening to resign if a mythical line in the ground is moved which ironically benefits his constituency also..they just can't see it!

Those hospital marches were just token gestures..he really couldn't give a fiddlers!

The North Quays may be a stones throw from his house but it's just at the wrong side of the imaginary line in the ground (The county Boundary) He, like alot of his constitutes would like to see the North Quays fail as it might benefit Waterford. Cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Call me paranoid but it's the truth unfortunately!

Nope, your dead right.

Max Powers · 09-06-2017 8:03am

Deiseen wrote: »

Nope, your dead right.

Disagree,I think people in south kk would like to see thousands of jobs appear within a stones throw, they all want to work, have families, kids, just like the rest of us...if the other way around,I'd be delighted to see a couple thousand jobs appear in sliverue or kilmacow. Clearly, the boundary was an issue, but putting money in your pocket, jobs for your kids different.

Deiseen · 09-06-2017 2:13pm

Max Powers wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Nope, your dead right.

Disagree,I think people in south kk would like to see thousands of jobs appear within a stones throw, they all want to work, have families, kids, just like the rest of us...if the other way around,I'd be delighted to see a couple thousand jobs appear in sliverue or kilmacow. Clearly, the boundary was an issue, but putting money in your pocket, jobs for your kids different.

Think you are underestimating what we are dealing with Max

robtri · 09-06-2017 9:25pm

Max Powers wrote: »

Disagree,I think people in south kk would like to see thousands of jobs appear within a stones throw, they all want to work, have families, kids, just like the rest of us...if the other way around,I'd be delighted to see a couple thousand jobs appear in sliverue or kilmacow. Clearly, the boundary was an issue, but putting money in your pocket, jobs for your kids different.

couldn't agree more!!

10-06-2017 8:14am

I see on the history page on Facebook, some people are getting very excited about the possibility of the clock tower being dismantled and moved to facilitate the new footbridge, and quoting plans from 2008 -2014.

Even though the plans from this time clearly display the clock tower. I give up!!!

People looking for negativity and faults even before plans have been released!

Max Powers · 10-06-2017 9:37am

914 wrote: »

I see on the history page on Facebook, some people are getting very excited about the possibility of the clock tower being dismantled and moved to facilitate the new footbridge, and quoting plans from 2008 -2014.

Even though the plans from this time clearly display the clock tower. I give up!!!

People looking for negativity and faults even before plans have been released!

I know,a few hysterical posts on facebook though, who cares.if bridge goes in, clock tower would probably have to be moved,I think its been moved before to widen quay road , it can be moved again, no biggie if its moved up/down quay somewhere IMO

Harry Palmr · 10-06-2017 10:15am

A footbridge at the Clock Tower would rule out any cruise traffic berthing on the quays.

Road-Hog · 10-06-2017 11:00am

I think the proposed 'foot bridge' will be openable......in any case how much 'cruise traffic' berths upstream of clock tower at the moment. Not a huge amount I would think??

Harry Palmr · 10-06-2017 11:04am

Not many but having a structure, even one that opens, halfway up the quays would cut the berthing/manoeuvring area in half, I suspect too small for safety. If the opening bridge were at the Tower then it would be fine.

Road-Hog · 10-06-2017 11:04am

Max Powers wrote: »

I know,a few hysterical posts on facebook though, who cares.if bridge goes in, clock tower would probably have to be moved,I think its been moved before to widen quay road , it can be moved again, no biggie if its moved up/down quay somewhere IMO

With careful planning I'm sure bridge location will be such that click tower will remain in-situ......why would council want the burden of moving such a structure. Also who ever said it has been moved I. Not so recent past is seriously mistaken. Check out old maps on ordnance survey web site 'geo-hive' where you can overlay old maps on new ones!

€300M Investment into Waterford City

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