€300M Investment into Waterford City

Dunmoreroader · 29-03-2017 1:41pm

Did I read in the News & Star that the listed Hennebique building on the North Wharf is to come down as part of the proposed development? Just wondering, if I read correctly, how's that legal? (not that I'm a fan of the ugly pile of concrete)

Deiseen · 29-03-2017 2:29pm

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Did I read in the News & Star that the listed Hennebique building on the North Wharf is to come down as part of the proposed development? Just wondering, if I read correctly, how's that legal? (not that I'm a fan of the ugly pile of concrete)

Did you?

Hoffmans · 30-03-2017 12:19am

Thought that building had protected status well the question beckons
If the CEO jumped ship last October and the new CEO takes office this week
Who were nama & wcc negotiating with?

The other odd thing is the complex sharia capital loan their investment arm has acquired from a string of middle east banks for real estate investment...

Deiseen · 30-03-2017 12:23am

Hoffmans wrote: »

Thought that building had protected status well the question beckons
If the CEO jumped ship last October and the new CEO takes office this week
Who were nama & wcc negotiating with?

I'm going to take a wild swing and say it was other members of the board???????

Jesus Christ man, come on.

Max Powers · 30-03-2017 8:21am

Hoffmans wrote: »

Thought that building had protected status well the question beckons
If the CEO jumped ship last October and the new CEO takes office this week
Who were nama & wcc negotiating with?

The other odd thing is the complex sharia capital loan their investment arm has acquired from a string of middle east banks for real estate investment...

Think the building is on some protected list yeah, don't know how stringent that is though, could be altered, kept, built around or knocked, who knows at this stage. I don't know what second bit of that post is about and I doubt you do too, I'm worried you are drifting into silly stereotypes of previous posts.

BBM77 · 30-03-2017 8:47am

Hoffmans wrote: »

Something stinks in this "deal" and it ain't the whiff of crude oiled sheik sandles
couldn't the government give that 70 million to the hospital etc..instead
This Saudi company is in free fall profits down 80% last year and CEO jumped ship only 5 months ago....

These Suadi’s have crazy amounts of cash from selling oil to us oil hungry westerns that in the current financial environment actually costs them money to keep in the bank. So they invest in property developments in places like Waterford city that has been highlighted a number of times by the Financial Times as one of the best cities of its size in Europe for FDI potential in order make some return or at least maintain the value of their cash. Yes something really stinks about that!

TheQuietFella · 30-03-2017 8:51am

Max Powers wrote: »

Think the building is on some protected list yeah, don't know how stringent that is though, could be altered, kept, built around or knocked, who knows at this stage. I don't know what second bit of that post is about and I doubt you do too, I'm worried you are drifting into silly stereotypes of previous posts.

Put a bomb under it. Nothing more then an eye sore!

JupiterKid · 30-03-2017 9:14am

This sounds almost too good to be true. For Waterford's sake, I really hope it comes to fruition. There has been talk of redeveloping the North Quays for 20+ years to no avail.

On a side note, what's happening with the shell of the Ard Ri hotel?

Hoffmans · 30-03-2017 10:02am

JupiterKid wrote: »

This sounds almost too good to be true. For Waterford's sake, I really hope it comes to fruition. There has been talk of redeveloping the North Quays for 20+ years to no avail.

On a side note, what's happening with the shell of the Ard Ri hotel?

It was bought by the front man for a local consortium , some Chinese think he's called "lei ying lo"

Road-Hog · 30-03-2017 2:12pm

Max Powers wrote: »

Think the building is on some protected list yeah, don't know how stringent that is though, could be altered, kept, built around or knocked, who knows at this stage. I don't know what second bit of that post is about and I doubt you do too, I'm worried you are drifting into silly stereotypes of previous posts.

There are thousands of buildings
classified as 'listed' but It doesn't necessarily mean they have 'protection' orders associated with them. I think the one left on the north quays may be the 'listed' type!

Max Powers · 30-03-2017 2:46pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

There are thousands of buildings
classified as 'listed' but It doesn't necessarily mean they have 'protection' orders associated with them. I think the one left on the north quays may be the 'listed' type!

Yeah fair enough, limited knowledge on categories of listed myself, as mentioned who knows at this stage, maybe classification means it can be demolished, changed, whatever.I don't know difference between listed or protected and what the one we are talking about is.

robtri · 30-03-2017 7:19pm

List of protected structures in waterford city

http://www.waterfordcouncil.ie/departments/culture-heritage/heritage/built-heritage.htm

Built Heritage & Conservation
Our built heritage is part of the environment we live and work in. This heritage is a physical reminder of the culture, ideals, and history of previous generations. Castles, country houses, churches and public buildings, some of which were designed by architects, immediately come to mind. However, more modest structures such as town houses, thatched cottages and farm complexes also contribute to the character of the county. Waterford also has a rich industrial and maritime heritage, that includes structures such as mills, lighthouses, quays which tend to be overlooked. Our built heritage is an irreplaceable record which contributes to our understanding of both the present and the past. It is ours to enjoy, to enhance and to hand on to future generations.

The importance of our architectural heritage is recognised through legislation. Part IV of The Planning and Development Act 2000 deals with Architectural Heritage and each local authority has a duty to protect structures or parts of structures which are of special interest. This is done by compiling and maintaining a Record of Protected Structures (RPS) for each local authority area.

The documents are a mechanism for the statutory protection of architectural heritage and these RPS documents form part of the County and City Development Plans. There are almost 2000 structures on the RPS in the City and County of Waterford, including a variety of buildings from country houses, churches, bridges, houses, shops, thatched houses and stone depots and so on. The Record of Protected Structures can be updated at any stage during the life of the Development Plan.

They are an irreplaceable record, which contributes to our understanding of both the present and the past. The built fabric of our past is to be valued and we have a duty to ensure that it is conserved and passed on the future generations as a central part of our common cultural heritage.

This is done by compiling and maintaining a Record of Protected Structures (RPS) for the area. Please contact Rosemary Ryall, Executive Conservation Officer with regard to these documents.

Record of Protected Structures for Waterford City
Record of Protected Structures for Waterford County
Record of Protected Structures for Dungarvan Town
See our comprehensive list of Conservation and Built Heritage FAQs here.
Copyright © Waterford City & County Council 2017

TheQuietFella · 30-03-2017 9:26pm

Some holes under lock and key in that list!
Are they really for real in their selections?

Alexander St. for example! Can someone tell me what is so unique about it?

It's no wonder the town is in the state that it's in!

Harry Palmr · 30-03-2017 10:19pm

Not sure as the one side was largely rebuilt only about 20 years ago.

TheQuietFella · 30-03-2017 10:25pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Not sure as the one side was largely rebuilt only about 20 years ago.

I would have suggested a little more then that Harry but would it really matter
if the entire street was demolished and improved upon?

mooseknunkle · 31-03-2017 1:03am

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Some holes under lock and key in that list!
Are they really for real in their selections?

Alexander St. for example! Can someone tell me what is so unique about it?

It's no wonder the town is in the state that it's in!

Didnt you suggest levelling Barracks Street up to Morrisons Road not long ago...just because something isnt unique doesnt mean it needs to knocked down for more modern buildings...Alexander street,Barracks street and everything else on that list are Waterford they are our history our identity...

Seriously what do you want you give out about everything in Waterford yet you're still here :rolleyes:

Max Powers · 31-03-2017 8:18am

mooseknunkle wrote: »

.....

Seriously what do you want you give out about everything in Waterford yet you're still here :rolleyes:

You see and hear this a bit on here and out and about, generally comes from people who have never left, never lived elsewhere for period of time and generally a bit miserable eeking out life.part of it is like a teenage immaturity, you're scared of leaving the comfort zone so in order to feel in control, you tar everything as rubbish so you have a semblance of control in yourself.Bit of pop psychology there form me with no psychological training but I have heard it before from people who know more and it makes sense.
Same people in my experience often say things like nothing to do here, yet go to same pub or 2 every weekend...i love it when someone says it to me,I ask: you been to garter lane, theatre royal or central hall anytime recently, been to see any local music, the cinema, gone to see a foreign film in garter?been out to tramore or on greenway? Have you been in all the museums? Etc etc.
Usually get the yeah but yeah but they are all sh1t comments or something else silly.

TheQuietFella · 31-03-2017 11:21am

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Didnt you suggest levelling Barracks Street up to Morrisons Road not long ago...just because something isnt unique doesnt mean it needs to knocked down for more modern buildings...Alexander street,Barracks street and everything else on that list are Waterford they are our history our identity...

Seriously what do you want you give out about everything in Waterford yet you're still here :rolleyes:

I'm not here anymore MK! I moved on but my heart still resides there!

And yes, the city needs to be levelled, whole blocks of it demolished.

If they want the City to succeed and develop they need to bring in youth,

young working families and better quality homes that will make a bold

statement about prosperity. Create a new identity for the City.

Why does it have to be new investors to change the face of Waterford?

Wanderer78 · 31-03-2017 11:56am

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I'm not here anymore MK! I moved on but my heart still resides there!

And yes, the city needs to be levelled, whole blocks of it demolished.

If they want the City to succeed and develop they need to bring in youth,

young working families and better quality homes that will make a bold

statement about prosperity. Create a new identity for the City.

Why does it have to be new investors to change the face of Waterford?

'a bold statement about prosperity' hmmm, now thats an odd statement! why must this be so?

TheQuietFella · 31-03-2017 1:03pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

'a bold statement about prosperity' hmmm, now thats an odd statement! why must this be so?

Christ '78 we've lived under austerity long enough! I've been through three recessions. Is it an Irish thing where we enjoy the sufferance, the pity and the misery?
We'll write more f**king laments about this era! Paint a new picture!

Max Powers · 31-03-2017 3:57pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I'm not here anymore MK! I moved on but my heart still resides there!

And yes, the city needs to be levelled, whole blocks of it demolished.

If they want the City to succeed and develop they need to bring in youth,

young working families and better quality homes that will make a bold

statement about prosperity. Create a new identity for the City.

Why does it have to be new investors to change the face of Waterford?

Your heart still resides there, (along with your sensible comments too)unusual considering the amount of times you are unfairly, slagging and bad mouthing the place off and making bold sweeping silly comments.I'd say since you don't live here anymore that your comments don't bear up to reality of Waterford, good things, the progress,and positives happening.lot more to do obviously, that doesn't involve wholesale demolition of the place like you suggest.

Dunmoreroader · 31-03-2017 8:00pm

Deiseen wrote: »

Did you?

Yes. Pg 35 Top right bullet point;
"The only remaining building on the North Quays - the Hennebique Building - will be demolished in the coming months."

Wanderer78 · 31-03-2017 8:07pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Christ '78 we've lived under austerity long enough! I've been through three recessions. Is it an Irish thing where we enjoy the sufferance, the pity and the misery?
We'll write more f**king laments about this era! Paint a new picture!

apologies but i may have misinterpreted what you meant, but what exactly do you mean by a 'bold statement of prosperity'?

talking of austerity, it was not the right thing to do for this country and has failed, but that really is a discussion for another thread.

TheQuietFella · 01-04-2017 1:14am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

apologies but i may have misinterpreted what you meant, but what exactly do you mean by a 'bold statement of prosperity'?

talking of austerity, it was not the right thing to do for this country and has failed, but that really is a discussion for another thread.

I want us as a City to progress '78!
To make a statement to the rest of the country.
A University, An Airport that serves the major European cities.
A city that has an air of prosperity about it, not a spray tan!

We have sat in the shadows for too long!
Cork, Limerick and Galway have all progressed and good luck to them.
Why have we not been so successful?
What have our political representatives achieved for Waterford other then themselves?

It's fantastic that a group are investing in Waterford.
What a fantastic coup for the City!
But lets add to that, the heart of the City is soul less!
There is no vibrancy to it!

As I stated in previous threads the City centre needs to be re-developed.
Let's take the Prague approach to our City's future development.
I mentioned The Glen in a previous post, how in such a state of disrepair
it was. Houses barricaded and others falling down!

Lets start with a compulsory purchase of all derelict properties in that area
and build homes that make a statement. I'm not talking about social housing
but period homes that would add to the very fabric of the City.

Max Powers · 01-04-2017 8:04am

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I want us as a City to progress '78!
To make a statement to the rest of the country.
A University, An Airport that serves the major European cities.
A city that has an air of prosperity about it, not a spray tan!

We have sat in the shadows for too long!
Cork, Limerick and Galway have all progressed and good luck to them.
Why have we not been so successful?
What have our political representatives achieved for Waterford other then themselves?

It's fantastic that a group are investing in Waterford.
What a fantastic coup for the City!
But lets add to that, the heart of the City is soul less!
There is no vibrancy to it!

As I stated in previous threads the City centre needs to be re-developed.
Let's take the Prague approach to our City's future development.
I mentioned The Glen in a previous post, how in such a state of disrepair
it was. Houses barricaded and others falling down!

Lets start with a compulsory purchase of all derelict properties in that area
and build homes that make a statement. I'm not talking about social housing
but period homes that would add to the very fabric of the City.

Simple as that....No mention of where capital comes from for a start to do all this....this thinking is so simplistic its almost childish.

Wanderer78 · 01-04-2017 8:10am

Max Powers wrote:

Simple as that....No mention of where capital comes from for a start to do all this....this thinking is so simplistic its almost childish.

Money is a very interesting subject matter though, but probably a discussion for another thread

TheQuietFella · 01-04-2017 9:21am

Max Powers wrote: »

Simple as that....No mention of where capital comes from for a start to do all this....this thinking is so simplistic its almost childish.

What would it cost to c' purchase all the houses along by the Showboat and build something like these?

http://www.movehome.ie/residential/brochure/64-drumcondra-road-upper-drumcondra-dublin-9/3779935

It doesn't have to be rocket science Max or maybe you just work for the CC and see things differently!

mooseknunkle · 01-04-2017 9:24am

TheQuietFella wrote: »

What would it cost to c' purchase all the houses along by the Showboat and build something like these?

http://www.movehome.ie/residential/brochure/64-drumcondra-road-upper-drumcondra-dublin-9/3779935

It doesn't have to be rocket science Max or maybe you just work for the CC and see things differently!

You dont even live in Waterford dont worry about anything that happens here,move on with your life and forget about Waterford worry about wherever you call home now.

TheQuietFella · 01-04-2017 9:27am

mooseknunkle wrote: »

You dont even live in Waterford dont worry about anything that happens here,move on with your life and forget about Waterford worry about wherever you call home now.

You're spot on! I'll have to acquire a Dublin 4 accent though!

Max Powers · 01-04-2017 12:23pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

What would it cost to c' purchase all the houses along by the Showboat and build something like these?

http://www.movehome.ie/residential/brochure/64-drumcondra-road-upper-drumcondra-dublin-9/3779935

It doesn't have to be rocket science Max or maybe you just work for the CC and see things differently!

It would cost millions, is there space for these lovely houses,can you sell them at the price paid for land, construction, profit, etc.lovely old Georgian houses in a place there was never old Georgian style houses, unusual scenario, is there demand for houses like that by showboat, I'd say not..at end of day, you're ignoring lots of things, its not rocket science,100% but its no where near as simple as you make it out to be.somebody mentioned taxi drivers seem to think know everything but are taxi drivers.time and time again people make simplistic immature comments about just knocking things down, just build the runway, bridge, New road, stadium, houses, whatever they completely ignore the realities.and I'd add know nowt quiet fella about Waterford at the moment.

I'd love a job in the council.

Road-Hog · 01-04-2017 1:36pm

Max Powers wrote: »

It would cost millions, is there space for these lovely houses,can you sell them at the price paid for land, construction, profit, etc.lovely old Georgian houses in a place there was never old Georgian style houses, unusual scenario, is there demand for houses like that by showboat, I'd say not..at end of day, you're ignoring lots of things, its not rocket science,100% but its no where near as simple as you make it out to be.somebody mentioned taxi drivers seem to think know everything but are taxi drivers.time and time again people make simplistic immature comments about just knocking things down, just build the runway, bridge, New road, stadium, houses, whatever they completely ignore the realities.and I'd add know nowt quiet fella about Waterford at the moment.

I'd love a job in the council.

Is that sarcasm about working in council??

This current 'potential' investment will be a test of the local authority's ability to deliver??

Regarding compulsory purchasing rows of derelict or almost derelict houses and building new Georgian terraces is pure delusional simplistic stuff alright.!

Sosurface · 01-04-2017 2:37pm

The ostrich approach is very popular here. Whats the point in being defensive about a place that is fundamentally failing on all metrics of a place being attractive to live in/move to.

Thank God/Allah/Buddha/whatever you fancy for foreign investment. Where would the place be without American and now hopefully Arab money and imagination.

The best our own lot can come up with is stick a f*ckin roof on the place ffs.

Max Powers · 01-04-2017 7:01pm

Sosurface wrote: »

The ostrich approach is very popular here. Whats the point in being defensive about a place that is fundamentally failing on all metrics of a place being attractive to live in/move to.

Thank God/Allah/Buddha/whatever you fancy for foreign investment. Where would the place be without American and now hopefully Arab money and imagination.

The best our own lot can come up with is stick a f*ckin roof on the place ffs.

You are completely wrong in saying Waterford not attractive..parts of city looking great and major works ongoing to improve further.many things here other regional cities would kill for.lack of major traffic, you can get pretty much anywhere quickly, into city, to beach, mountains, great festivals, whatever.
Lot of people on here were saying putting roofs on some areas of city fantastic idea, me included, they do it in lots of major cities, London, Milan, other UK cities.of course, for some, if kk or Galway did it, they'd be praising them but bad mouthing it when we do it on doorstep.

BBM77 · 01-04-2017 8:18pm

Sosurface wrote: »

The ostrich approach is very popular here. Whats the point in being defensive about a place that is fundamentally failing on all metrics of a place being attractive to live in/move to.

Thank God/Allah/Buddha/whatever you fancy for foreign investment. Where would the place be without American and now hopefully Arab money and imagination.

The best our own lot can come up with is stick a f*ckin roof on the place ffs.

Oh right. You should be able to give sources to these metrics you are talking about then.

This post is just laughable. First line “fundamentally failing on all metrics”, second “Where would the place be without American and now hopefully Arab money”. Waterford can attract American and now Arab money but it is failing on all metrics. I am actually sitting here laughing as I type.

Also if you were to come out of your clique once in a while you will learn that there is a lot of people who have moved here and Waterford city has a strong population growth.

Harry Palmr · 01-04-2017 8:28pm

Sosurface has yet to contribute a single word of value check his history.

Suryavarman · 01-04-2017 9:35pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

What would it cost to c' purchase all the houses along by the Showboat and build something like these?

http://www.movehome.ie/residential/brochure/64-drumcondra-road-upper-drumcondra-dublin-9/3779935

It doesn't have to be rocket science Max or maybe you just work for the CC and see things differently!

Why on earth would you want to buy the houses and build something like those houses? The only thing you should be building in such a central location is an apartment block.

Deiseen · 01-04-2017 10:05pm

In terms of the city council being able to reinvest in the centre to make it look better and hold more festivals - does anyone have any idea how much rates they are likely to get from a development like Michael Street? Surely it will be worth a nice few Bob to them.

Surely the north quays would transform the amount of money coming into the council.

robtri · 02-04-2017 12:03am

Deiseen wrote: »

In terms of the city council being able to reinvest in the centre to make it look better and hold more festivals - does anyone have any idea how much rates they are likely to get from a development like Michael Street? Surely it will be worth a nice few Bob to them.

Surely the north quays would transform the amount of money coming into the council.

reinvest in the city centre.... ohhhhhh that would be nice.... any money they get will probably go to housing... providing free houses for people.... where the majority of their cash goes

Sosurface · 02-04-2017 12:24am

It's grand. Someone topped up the kool_aid. Up the Deise. Ireland's oldest city. Aren't we great sure. When's the strike?

Deiseen · 02-04-2017 3:04am

Jesus wept, this place can be f'in painful

Wanderer78 · 02-04-2017 7:20am

robtri wrote:

reinvest in the city centre.... ohhhhhh that would be nice.... any money they get will probably go to housing... providing free houses for people.... where the majority of their cash goes

Very common statement on boards, and its sad to see. It's very obvious, to me anyway, that the (not so) free market has actually failed in regards our housing needs.

Gavlor · 02-04-2017 7:28am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Very common statement on boards, and its sad to see. It's very obvious, to me anyway, that the (not so) free market has actually failed in regards our housing needs.

Yep, with 0.0016% of the population homeless it's certainly failed alright.

Damn capitalism.

Wanderer78 · 02-04-2017 7:39am

Gavlor wrote:

Yep, with 0.0016% of the population homeless it's certainly failed alright.

There's over 7000 people homeless at the moment, and rising, that's a systemic failure in my eyes. With all our new found 'wealth', we can't house our people, seriously?

Gavlor wrote:

Damn capitalism.

I'd have to agree with those that say, one of our main issues is we're following one of the most potentially dangerous forms of capitalism, I.e. neoliberalism, and its failing, globally. But I would also agree with those that say customers have benefited but it is failing badly regarding our essential needs such as housing etc. It's time for us to move on from these systems and models before we devour ourselves.

Road-Hog · 02-04-2017 6:41pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

There's over 7000 people homeless at the moment, and rising, that's a systemic failure in my eyes. With all our new found 'wealth', we can't house our people, seriously?

I'd have to agree with those that say, one of our main issues is we're following one of the most potentially dangerous forms of capitalism, I.e. neoliberalism, and its failing, globally. But I would also agree with those that say customers have benefited but it is failing badly regarding our essential needs such as housing etc. It's time for us to move on from these systems and models before we devour ourselves.

Focus is being lost on this topic. Is not the subject the €300m investment as opposed to solving the countries. Housing issues.

TheQuietFella · 02-04-2017 8:09pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

There's over 7000 people homeless at the moment, and rising, that's a systemic failure in my eyes. With all our new found 'wealth', we can't house our people, seriously?

Why do you think that it's 'our' duty to house the homeless?
It's a career choice for these people, nothing else!

Harry Palmr · 02-04-2017 8:13pm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Focus is being lost on this topic. Is not the subject the €300m investment as opposed to solving the countries. Housing issues.

Indeed lets get back to damning the idea of 300m being spent in the City, c'on people. Concentrate!

Wanderer78 · 02-04-2017 8:14pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Why do you think that it's 'our' duty to house the homeless?
It's a career choice for these people, nothing else!

not at all, systemic failure of the free market system. david mcwilliams wrote a great piece on it a couple of months ago in which i completely agree with him, but as others have said, its a discussion for another thread

TheQuietFella · 02-04-2017 8:17pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

not at all, systemic failure of the free market system. david mcwilliams wrote a great piece on it a couple of months ago in which i completely agree with him, but as others have said, its a discussion for another thread

If you are aware of a link to this piece you might post it please!

Wanderer78 · 02-04-2017 8:46pm

TheQuietFella wrote: »

If you are aware of a link to this piece you might post it please!

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2016/12/19/coveney-needs-courage-to-let-go-of-market-will-fix-it-chestnut

Hoffmans · 03-04-2017 8:43am

If this "investment" more like peanuts for vultures feeding on he last bits of carcass left around the country,
Its a bailout for a Saudi company in trouble and all possibility it could come to a halt mid build and the taxpayer foot the bill to complete the project which will have rocketed to 900 million by then, sound familiar?

€300M Investment into Waterford City

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