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Prehistoric Hiberno/Serbian theory
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17-01-2014 12:37pm#1In mountains of Serbia, in the 20th century, peasants carried with them a year stick. It was a stick with a notch for every day and a cross for major holy days, which in Serbia are all linked to major agricultural events. Every day that was gone was cut off from the stick. Very simple way to track time. But to do this effectively, you need to know:
1. when does the year start
2. how many full moons there are in a year
3. how many days there are in a moon
4. how many full extra days there are after the end of the last full moon
Once you know this, you can make the your stick calendar.
How do you determine all the above? First you realize that there is a day and a night. And that as each night passes, moon changes. Then one night moon become full. You start marking the full moons "u štap" together with the number of nights between full moons. You realize that there is a cycle. 28 or 29 days cycle of moon changing. You start calling this period moon (mesec in Serbian). At the same time you notice that the sun is changing in a longer cycle. It gets higher over the horizon and hotter and then lower and colder. So You find a level place from where you can observe the sunrise and sunset all year round. You then use a stick, a post and stick it into the ground. Then you use a rope and another stick to mark a circle around the central post. You use the center of the circle as a static observation point. You build a circular rampart using sticks, stakes to mark the circle's edge. You observe the sunrise movement, and when it stops moving in the winter you mark the point on the rampart with a really tall stick. Or you make a gate, the sun gate. You can do that in the winter solstice. Now you have your year starting point. You connect the center of the circle with the point of the solstice by drawing a line, a time line. Then from the winter solstice starting point, you count number of days in a moon, and you mark it "u štap" in a stick. You can do this by cutting notches into a stick or by placing a stick in line along the line of time. The last "u štap", full moon before the winter solstice marker, tells you how many moons there are in a year. Then you have dead days until the winter solstice. These are the days where everyone is at the sun circle, celebrating the sun turning. These are still taboo days in Serbia. You count these days as well. You can mark the whole thing with circular or linear stakes, and later stones, so you don't forget it. Then you cut your calendar stick and everyone goes away until the end of the stick (year) when they all come back to get the new calendar.
Here is one of those sun circles, Goseck in Germany:
In Serbia there is identical sun circle which is located in plateau called "Bogovo gumno":
The inside of the circle is completely cleared of stones. There are no meadow flowers growing inside of the circle which are abundant outside of the circle. The center of the circle is marked with old anthropomorphic cross:
The whole locality has never been excavated??? Just in case you think Irish archaeological localities are neglected.
By the way the name of the place tells you what the place was used for: "bogovo gumno". Bog means god. Gumno is a threshing floor, like this one:
Or this one:
Or this one in use:
and this one in use. look at the tools these people use to handle hay:
This film is from 1989 from Croatia, when people still used gumno to thresh the wheat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mqx5AtZ9lRo
Have a look at these pictures (click next...) from Croatia, showing people in traditional clothing reenacting the harvest procedure on gumno:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/59058448
There are thousands of these stone circles all over the Balkans. Every village and sometimes every house had one. Sometimes they are made of stone, where stone was plentiful, but sometimes they were just a flat piece of land with a stick stack into the middle of it. Just type in gumno into google.
The central stake of "gumno" is called "stožer" in Serbian. A hay stack, or wheat stack is called "stog".
stožer = stog + ger, gar = stack + pole
these are neolithic sickles ("srp" in Serbian):
This is a "modern" one:
Compare them with the moon calendar from Serbia. The same shape. And the shape of a young moon.
Gumno (circle, sun), stožer (pole, axis), srp (crescent, moon) are the most important symbols of of astronomy, time keeping and agriculture. Is it surprising that the harvest tools are used as astronomical tools, when we know how important knowing the right time of the year is for wheat farmers? Stone circles only much later became fortifications...
Two articles related to bogovo gumno circles in Serbian with few more (unexcavated) stone circles:
http://www.staroverci.si/planina-devica.html
http://srbinside.blog.rs/blog/srbinside/zanimljivosti/2013/01/20/krugovi-na-planini-devici-drevna-opservatorija1
Comments
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I did say i was not going to write here again, but i have something important that i really think i need to share with you guys. First to reply to bawn79. Thank you very much for posting these links. Here is one from me:
http://heritagecouncil.ie/unpublished_excavations/section10.html
Have a look at the position of the "st John's" well inside the Dún Ailinne and the buried scull in Raffin, relative to the center of the circle. Isn't this the same angle off north? What angle is this?
Apparently Dún Ailinne was only used during spring and summer. Large bonfire was lit up in the center of Dún Ailinne, probably on summer solstice, as it is custom everywhere else in Europe, and which is still done on "St John's" day.In 1968 a caesium magnetometer survey and a resistivity survey was undertaken that highlighted an area in the low mound, later revealed as areas of intense burning. The excavated areas revealed only minimal traces of human activity except in the area around the low mound where black soil, burnt stone, charcoal and animal bone were uncovered. The artefacts suggested intense activity in the Iron Age and/or Early Medieval period that disturbed a Neolithic occupation phase.
It was obviously ceremonial astronomical center related to the worship of the sun, and determining the summer solstice date.
look at the name of the forth: Dún Ailinne. What does it mean?Croagh Patrick comes from the Irish Cruach Phádraig meaning "(Saint) Patrick's stack". It is known locally as "the Reek", a Hiberno-English word for a "rick" or "stack".[3] In pagan times it was known as Cruachán Aigle, being mentioned by that name in sources such as Cath Maige Tuired,[4] Buile Shuibhne,[5] The Metrical Dindshenchas,[6] and the Annals of Ulster entry for the year 1113.[7] Cruachán is simply a diminutive of cruach "stack", but it is not certain what Aigle means. It is either from the Latin loan aquila "eagle" (more usually aicile or acaile)[8] or a person's name.[6][9] In addition to its literal meaning, cruach in the pagan name may also have some connection with Crom Cruach.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croagh_Patrick
Remember the rolling sun on Cruachán Aigle?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87450395&postcount=36
Dún Ailinne, Cruachán Aigle....Sun circle, Sun mountain...
cruach means stack. Stack. Stog in Serbian. Stog, stack, cruach has circular base. In Serbian krug is circle, kruh is bread, round baked stack of wheat. Crom Cruach was related to the harvest and ultimately bread, circular stack of wheat, krug, kruh...In Serbian word for circle is krug, but word for circular is kružan (pronounced kruzshan). Bread oven is krušna peć (pronounced krushna petj). Cruachán Aigle. Is it possible that Cruachán here means krugan, kružan, krušan meaning circular?Croaghaun (Irish: Cruachán) is a mountain in County Mayo, Ireland. At 688 metres (2,257 ft), it has the highest sea cliffs in Ireland and Great Britain[2] as well as the third highest sea cliffs in Europe (after Hornelen, Norway and Cape Enniberg, Faroe Islands).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croaghaun
Croaghan Hill Hill Cruachán Donegal. Excavations or vandalisim on the ancient summit cairn of Croaghan Hill
Cross yet another fence and walk out SW across the heather for approximately 100 metres to the trig pillar set atop a small grass and heather covered mound at H2993897466 (Point F), shown on the OS map as an ancient Hill Fort and Cairn. Part of the mound has been dug out either as part of an exploratory excavation or by vandalisim. There are excellent views SE across Strabane to Bessy Bell and the Sperrins and to the N and W the hills of South Donegal.
http://mountainviews.ie/summit/1028/
Why are all these summits called crugan, circular? Because they have 360 degrees circular view of the horizon and the sun, the great golden, white, bright circle in the sky.
http://tinyurl.com/mjp33v5
One of many solar breads from Serbia, which is today called "krsni" meaning cross, Christ bread.
Original solar "kruh", krug, circle bread baked on and under a stone. It is a familiar "celtic" solar cross. The year divided into four parts by equinoxes and solstices.
This is the calendar bread, year bread, sun bread, "god" bread as in Serbian god meaning tree ring, year, time, moment...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85550404&postcount=108In parts of Scotland, the Beltane bannock is a popular custom. It's said that if you eat one on Beltane morning, you'll be guaranteed abundance for your crops and livestock. Traditionally, the bannock is made with animal fat (such as bacon grease), and it is placed in a pile of embers, on top of a stone, to cook in the fire. Once it's blackened on both sides, it can be removed, and eaten with a blend of eggs and milk. This recipe doesn't require you to build a fire, and you can use butter instead of fat.
In Serbian and in Irish Ban, Van means white, bright. In Serbian svan = s van means with whiteness, with brighteness = light. Svanuti = S Van uti = with white (light) be = to dawn, to get bright, to get white. Svanuće = Dawn
In Serbian mater is the equivalent of the English word mother or Sanskrit Matr.
Materisvan = Materi svan = the mother of light - the giver of birth to light, the one who produced light, who gives life. This producer of light is fire, Agni, both celestial, sun fire, and terrestrial, human fire, and so Matarisvan is Agni. But also the producer of fire is the producer of light by extension. So Matarisvan is the heavenly swastika, Slavic Svarog, that produces the fire of the sun. Matarisvan is also the lightning, the fire bird (žar ptica), the East Slavic (Russian) Bird Mater sva, that brought the fire from heavens to Earth and gave it to people....And in the end Matarisvan is the man who produced fire using terrestrial swastika, fire drill. In some vedic translations Matarisvan is called MItariswan or Mitarisvan. In Serbian Dar is a present, dariti, darivati is to give present. Mi means to me. Svan means light. So Mitarisvan = Mi dari svan = the one who gives me light (as present). So the meaning of the name stays unchanged.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=88133615&postcount=218
Bannok is the sun, light bread, the equivalent of the solar bread in Serbia. It was made and eaten on Beltane, the start of summer.Croghan Hill is the remains of an extinct volcano [1] of the Carboniferous period and rises from the Bog of Allen in the midlands of Ireland in County Offaly. Though only 234 m high[1] it commands extensive views of the surrounding midland counties, across the flat, low-lying expanse of the Bog of Allen. The village of Croghan is located on the southern slope of the hill.
The mound at the summit is thought to be a bronze age burial place. It is believed that a Bishop MacCaille had his church there and lived around the time of St Patrick in the fifth century. The area also has strong associations with St. Bridget, who is said to have been born near Croghan hill. In pre-Christian times, Brigid as Brig, Bree or Bri was also associated with the Hill, and the inside believed to be a magic underworld called Bri Ele.[2] Seen from Uisnech, the pointed summit coincides with the midwinter sunrise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croghan_Hill
This is the picture of Croghan hill (circular, of circles) hill:
http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Places/Place/358042
Does anyone have any doubts that Croghan, Cruachán comes from krugan, circular?The Hill of Uisneach or Ushnagh (Irish: Uisneach or Cnoc Uisnigh)[1] is an ancient ceremonial site in the Barony of Rathconrath in County Westmeath, Ireland (National Monument Number 155).[2] In Irish mythology it is the centre of Ireland...In Irish mythology, the Ail na Míreann or "stone of divisions" was deemed to be the omphalos or mystical navel of Ireland and to have marked the meeting point of the borders of Leinster, Munster, Connacht, Ulster and Meath. Tradition tells that Bealtaine fires were lit and Druidical ceremonies held on the hill. In the Lebor Gabála Érenn (Book of the Takings of Ireland), the Nemedian Druid Mide lit the first Bealtaine fire there. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_of_Uisneach
This is the center of the solar cult. Stožer, stog ger, the axes of heaven...Beltane or Beltain /ˈbɛlteɪn/ (also Beltine or Beltaine)[1] is the Gaelic May Day festival. Most commonly it is held on 30 April–1 May, or halfway between the spring equinox and the summer solstice. It was observed in Ireland, Scotland and the Isle of Man. In Irish it is Bealtaine ([ˈbʲal̪ˠt̪ˠənʲə]), in Scottish Gaelic Bealltainn ([ˈpjaul̪ˠt̪ˠɪɲ]) and in Manx Gaelic Boaltinn or Boaldyn. It is one of the four Gaelic seasonal festivals; along with Samhain, Imbolc and Lughnasadh....
In Irish Gaelic, the festival is usually called Lá Bealtaine ("day of Beltane") while the month of May is Mí Bhealtaine ("month of Beltane"). In Scottish Gaelic, the month is called (An) Cèitean or a' Mhàigh, and the festival is Latha Bealltainn. Sometimes the older Scottish Gaelic spelling Bealltuinn is used. The word Céitean comes from Céad Shamhain, an old alternative name for the festival.
In modern Scottish Gaelic, Latha Buidhe Bealltainn or Là Buidhe Bealltainn ("the yellow day of Beltane") is used to describe the first day of May. This term Lá Buidhe Bealtaine is also used in Irish and is translated as "Bright May Day". In Ireland it is referred to in a common folk tale as Luan Lae Bealtaine; the first day of the week (Monday/Luan) is added to emphasize the first day of summer....
Since the early 20th century it has been commonly accepted that Old Irish Beltaine is derived from a Common Celtic *belo-te(p)niâ, meaning "bright fire". The element *belo- might be cognate with the English word bale (as in 'bale-fire') meaning 'white' or 'shining'; compare Old English bael, and Lithuanian/Latvian baltas/balts, found in the name of the Baltic; in Slavic languages byelo or beloye also means 'white', as in Беларусь (White Russia or Belarus) or Бе́лое мо́ре (White Sea).
In Ó Duinnín's Irish dictionary (1904), Beltane is referred to as Céadamh(ain) which it explains is short for Céad-shamh(ain) meaning "first (of) summer". The dictionary also states that Dia Céadamhan is May Day and Mí Céadamhan is the month of May.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltane
But was Beltane, the day when bonfires are lit and bannok sun bread is made in them and eaten, always the first of may or was it originally celebrated on the summer solstice day? Bel comes from Serbian and means white, the same way ban means white. Tinja also comes from serbian and means kindling fire.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=86150789&postcount=173
Beltane could be bel tinja mean white, bright fire. But there is another possibility. I already talked about interchangeability of b and v sounds. You can see it in ban, van. Also sounds t and d are interchangeable. In Serbian Bel means white, but Vel means great, big, long. So beltane could be veldan meaning vel + dan = great, big, long + day. Which day is the great day? The summer solstice, the longest day of the year.
Now if Cruachán in Cruachán Aigle is circular, what is then Aigle in Cruachán Aigle and what is Ailinne in Dún Ailinne?
I believe that these words both contain old root word Ai related to white, bright, sun, circle, stone, high, sky. This root is the root of words such as sky and high.Long before St Patrick’s visit in 441, the Reek was known by its ancient name of Cruachán Aigli.The area around the mountain was known in Irish as ‘Aigli’.The village of Murrisk was referred to as ‘Muiresc Aigli’...
I believe that the word Aigle is ai + gle, gli = ai + look, observe (in Serbian). Basically Cruachán Aigle means the place marked with stone where i have circular view of the sky and can observe the sun, light and calculate time, calendar.
Dún Ailinne means circle of the sky, sun, time, calendar. It comes from ai + linn:
Have a look at these words from these two old Irish dictionaries and let me know what you think. Are we onto something here?
http://www.ceantar.org/Dicts/MB2/index.html
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/Dinneen1.pdfai - sheep, swan (white things)
ailbh, -e, -eacha, f., a flock.
ailbhín, g. id., pl. -idhe, m., a small flock; cf., ailbhín caorach, a small flock of sheep; see deilbhín and eilbhín. ailt - stately, high; Irish ailt, Latin altus, àilt (H.S.D.).
áigh, a., valiant, victorious, fateful (prop. gs. of ágh, valour, fate); cf., Oscar Áigh, the valorous Oscar. (on top, the highest)aicme, g. id., pl. -eacha, f., a sort or kind, a class, a race, a tribe.
aicne, g. aicionta, f., nature; a race or tribe (a form of aicme).
ail, aileadh, ailt - a mark, impression, Irish oil, mark (O'R), Middle and Early Irish aile, fence, boundary (Meyer). A t stem: oiledaib, *al-et.
++ail - rock, Irish and Old Irish ail, *alek-, allied to German fels; See further under mac-talla.
aill, -e, pl. id., and ailltreacha (Aran), f., a cliff, a rock; cf., an Áill, the "Naul" Co. Dublin (also faill, f., bárr na faille, the top of the cliff).
ailp, -e, pl. alpa, ailpeacha, f., a protuberance, a huge lump, a high mountain; a stout person; a bite, a mouthful; a bite of a vicious dog or horseaibhle, g. id., pl. -eacha, f., a flying spark of fire.
aibhleog, -oige, -oga, f., a piece of burning fuel, a burning sod of turf; dóigheadh 'na aibhleoig
í, she was burned to a cinder (Don.); a snow-flake. áibhe, interj., ave! hail! (ai + bhe, be = first + be, high + be)aibheil - huge (M`E.). See adhbhal. (ai + bheil = high + is)
aibheis - boasting; aibhsich, esaggerate; Irish aibhseach, boasting: from aibheis? Another form of aibhsich is aillsich. (ai + bheis = high + be)
aidhbhéileach, -lighe, a., very great, wondrous; bragging, boasting.
aidhbhéileacht, -a, f., a boasting, wonder; hugeness, enormity.
aibhist - an old ruin (Stew.): (ai + bhist = high, sky + be + stand)
aibhistear - the Devil; another form of abharsair, q.v. (old sun god which became devil)
aillse, g. id., pl. -acha, f., a fairy, any diminutive creature, a chafer, worm: cf., "ní lugha orm aillseacha ciaróg ná thú."
aibhse - spectre, so Irish: See taibhse.
aice - proximity, Irish aice; See taic.(close to god, sun, high up) aice,immediate vicinity, proximity; i n-a aice, close by him; i n-aice an bhaile, near the
village; i n-aice liom, i m'aice, beside me; also i n-aice dam, near me (M.); i n-aice le Máigh, beside the Mague; as aice an tighe, from the vicinity of the house; i n-aice na gcoillte, beside
the woods; capall aice, a horse led by one's side; is forus fuineadh i n-aice na mine, it is easy to bake when one has meal at hand.
aig - at, Irish ag, Old Irish oc; for root, See agus. (at the top, high, near the sky) http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aig
ailbheag - ring; See failbhe.
ailbhinn - flint, precipice; from ++ail, rock.
àile - air, scent, Early Irish aél, ahél; Welsh avel, Cornish, Breton, awel, wind; Greek @Ga@'élla (St. Lec.), storm; *avel-, root ave, ve, wind; Latin au-ra, Greek @Ga@'c/r, English air.
ailleort - high-rocked; from ++ail, rock; See mac-talla.
aill-bhruachach, -aighe, a., having steep or rocky brinks.
ailleadóir, -óra, -óiridhe, m., a cliff-climber.
ailm - the letter A, elm; Irish ailm, palm (fir?) tree, letter A; borrowed from Latin ulmus, Norse álmr, English elm.
aimsir - time, so Irish; Old Irish amser, Welsh amser, Breton amzer, possibly a Celtic ammesserâ; either a compound of am, time (ammensîrâ, from sîr, long?), or amb-mensura, root mens, measure, Latin mensus, English measure. Ascoli and Stokes give the Celtic as ád-messera, from ad-mensura.
àin - heat (Dict.), light (H.M`Lean), Old Irish áne, fulgor, from án, splendidus, latter a Celtic a@-no-s; Gothic fôn, fire (from pân); Prussian panno. Stokes suggests rather *agno-s, allied to Latin ignis, Sanskrit agní, fire.
ainbhtheach - stormy, Middle Irish ainbthech, *an-feth-ech, Gaelic rott feth, breeze, from vet, English weather, Latin ventus, etc. See ++anfadh.
aiceacht (aith-cheacht), -a, f., a lesson; guidance. See ceacht
aidheam - joyous carol:
aidich - confess, Irish admhuighim, Old Irish addaimim, Welsh addef: ad-dam-; root dam; Latin domo, English tame.
aifrionn - mass, so Irish, Early Irish oifrend, Welsh offeren; from Latin offerendum (English offer).
aigeannach - spirited, Early Irish aignech; See aigneadh. Irish aigeanta, meditative.
aighear - mirth, Manx aigher; *ati-gar-; See gàirdeachas for root. Yet Irish aiereach, merry, aerial, from aier, air, from Latin aer, makes the matter doubtful. Irish aerach (Hyde), merry, airy. Evidently the Gaelic is borrowed from the Latin
aigne, aigneadh - mind, so Irish, Old Irish, aicned: ád-gn-eto-, root gna@-, know, Greek @Ggignw/skw, English know. Stokes refers it to the root of ++aicme, as he gives it. Ascoli makes the root cen, as in cineal. The Gaelic g is against any root with c.
àil - will; better àill, q.v.
àill - desire, so Irish, Old Irish áil, Welsh ewyll, Breton ioul, Celtic avillo-; root av, desire, Latin aveo, English avidity. áil, pleasant, *pagli, English fair ( St. Bez.@+20 24). (top, climax)
áilgheas, -a, m., great pleasure or desire.
áilgheasach, -aighe, a., full of desire, eager, zealous. (basically i have a tall, high di*k, i have a hard on )àille - beauty, Early Irish álde, for álnde; See àlainn.
áilleacht, -a, f., beauty, loveliness (also áilneacht).
àilleas, àilgheas - will, desire; Irish áilgheas, Early Irish ailges, áilgidim, I desire; from áil and geas, request, q.v.
àilleagan - darling, so Irish; from àille, q.v.
áilleagán, -áin, pl. id., m., a toy, gewgaw, frippery; áilleagán inntreach, a merry-go-round (somet. áilleachán). (from ai + lleagán = top, pinacle, same spot + lays, stands = what stands on top. Legati means lay down in Serbian)
áilleagánacht, -a, f., idling, lolling about (Mayo). (laying, sitting, standing in the same spot, not moving)
glinn - pretty, (Strathspey and Lochbroom Dialects for grinn), Irish glinn, bright; English glint, gleam, glance.
glé, indec. a., clear, bright, pure, perfect; open, plain, manifest.
glé- an intensive prefix, very, enough, truly, perfect (chiefly Sc.).
gléacht, -a, f., brightness, clearness.
gléaghlan, -aine, a., pure, clean,
gléamhaise, g. id., f., neatness, beauty.
gléamhaiseach, -sighe, a., beautiful. glé-gheal, -ghile, a., very bright, clear, white, beautiful (also gléigeal and glégeal).
gléghileacht, -a, f., pureness, whiteness. gléineach, -nighe, a., clear, plain, distinct; chím go gléineach é, I see it distinctly.
gléir, -e, a., neat, clean, fair, clear, bright.
gléithe, g. id., f., purity, cleanness, neatness.
glé-mhian, f., clear intellect. glinn, -e, a., pure, clear; manifest, plain, visible; also sharp, keen, shrewd, clear-sighted; duine
glinn, a sharp or shrewd man; glinn-bhreathnuightheach, clear or sharp-sighted.
glinn, -e, -te, f., the firmament, the heavens; d'eiteall sé in nglinntibh an aeir, it flew into the air;
the tolling of a bell (O'N.).
glinn, -e, -idhe, f., the frame on which a fishing or measuring line is folded; nom. also glinne,
and glionnda in Sligo.
glinneamhain, -mhna, f., act of investigating, examining closely; gazing on fixedly; manifesting;
glinnim, I aim (B.).
linn, g. linne, pl. linnte, linntidhe, f. (definite) time, period, generation, course; ré linn, at the
time of, during the lifetime of; le n-a linn, in his time; le n-a linn sin, at that time, just then; le
linn na huaire sin, during the course of that time.0 -
http://tinyurl.com/lwlodvuIn recent years Anthony Murphy and
Richard Moore wrote a book titled, Island
of the Setting Sun: In Search of Ireland’s Ancient
Astronomers. Their theory is that Croagh
Patrick is part of an ancient cosmological
alignment, stretching 135m (217km) from
the Hill of Slane, in the east, to Croagh
Patrick in the west, linking some of the most
sacred sites associated with St Patrick.The
authors explore the idea that St Patrick
followed a ‘sacred equinox journey’. Using
Google Earth, they found that the equinox
line extends from Millmount, Drogheda,
County Louth, to Slane and aligns west with
Croagh Patrick. It includes the CruachanAí
complex in Roscommon (home of
legendary Queen Medb and inauguration
and burial site of the ancient kings of
Connacht) and follows the ancient pilgrim
road of Tóchar Phádraig, which passes by
the Rock of Boheh, mentioned below. They
stated that ‘evidence is emerging that
signicant archaeological sites dating from
deep in prehistory are linked – not just
through mythology, archaeology and
cosmology – but through an arrangement of
complex, and, in some cases, astonishing
alignments.’
CruachanAí = Cruachan + Aí = circle of heaven = calendarRathcroghan (Irish: Ráth Cruachan, meaning "ringfort of Cruachan") is a complex of archaeological sites near Tulsk in County Roscommon, Ireland. It is identified as the site of Cruachan, the traditional capital of the Connachta. While it is debatable whether this was a place of residence, it had huge importance as a cemetery and also hosted some of the main ritual gatherings in ancient times. It is an important site in Irish mythology, in particular as the seat of Ailill and Medb, king and queen of the Connachta in the Ulster Cycle. It is the setting for the opening section of the Táin Bó Cúailnge and the Táin Bó Flidhais.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rathcroghan0 -
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bawn79
Thanks for pointing this out. Here is the picture of Rathcroghan main mound.
What I am trying to tell you guys is that there are several genetic, cultural and linguistic layers in Ireland and in Serbia. One of them is R1a and then there is I1 + I2 layer. These layers can be decoded through Serbian and Irish parallels.
From the archeo astronomy point of view, if you want to understand the ancient astronomical observatories, you need to understand that they are tightly linked to agriculture and people who brought it to Ireland. And they came from the Balkans (to which they came from somewhere else or originated there, but that is not important for the discussion). They came to Ireland and brought their agriculture, astronomy and language. Serbs and Irish preserved some of those oldest cultural traits in Europe and we have a chance to dig them out. The example is word Cruach, Cruachán which can only be fully understood through Serbian, because this is where you find the link between the circle, bread and calendar. And then this opens the door for understanding a lot of things in Irish mythology.
For instance if ai means high who was Ailill, the king of Rathcroghan? Sun? Illi is one of the old names of god.Ēl is called again and again Tôru ‘Ēl ("Bull Ēl" or "the bull God"). He is bātnyu binwāti ("Creator of creatures"), ’abū banī ’ili ("father of the Gods")
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)Jesus Cries Out to the Father
Matthew 27:46 (also Mark 15:34)
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?” (NKJV)
In the darkest hours of his suffering, Jesus cried out the opening words of Psalm 22. And although much has been suggested regarding the meaning of this phrase, it was quite apparent the agony Christ felt as he expressed separation from God. Here we see the Father turning way from the Son as Jesus bore the full weight of our sin.
http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefactsandlists/qt/sevenlastwords.htmBy the time of Christ the Savior Ancient Hebrew, in which the Law and the majority of the rest books of the Old Testament are written, was already a dead language. The Jewish population of Palestine was speaking the language, common for that time for the Semitic tribes of Front Asia — Aramaic. Christ the Savior spoke that language as well. Those little worlds of Christ, which the Evangelists cite literally: "Talitha cumi" (Mark 5:41), "Abba," when the Lord addressed God the Father (Mark 5:41), the mortal howl of the Lord on the cross: "Eloi, Eloi, lama Sabachtani" (Mark 15:34) — these Aramaic words (in the Gospel of Mathew the words "Eloi, Eloi" — My God, My God) — are given in Ancient Hebrew "Ili, Ili," but the second part in both the Gospels is given in Aramaic.
http://www.orthodoxphotos.com/readings/bible2/language.shtml
Who is this Ili Eli god? Ilios - sun, crom dubh, hromi daba, dabog, dagda...But where does Ilios come from? AiLios - The fairy circle in the sky.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy_fort
Now the question is: how the hell is all this possible? Because people who gave us Illios the sun god of the heavenly circle, once lived in the Balkans, and then came to Ireland, or once lived in Ireland and then came to the Balkans. Or most likely, once lived in the Balkans, went to Ireland then came back to the Balkans within the space of few thousand years.
Look at the word Alba, Alban, Albania, Alps? Where do they come from? From the most ancient Serbo - Irish = European language.
Ai - high
Ail (Ai + le) - tall, high rock, mountain top
Ba, Va - white color, shiny
Ban, Van - who, what is white, shiny
Ail + Ban - white mountain tops
Alba - Scotland full of snowy mountain tops
Albania - full of snowy mountain tops
Alps (Alpen) - full of snowy mountain tops
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba
In Latin Alba means white too:From Proto-Italic *alβos, from Proto-Indo-European *h₂élbʰos, *álbʰos, *albʰós (“white”). Cognates include Umbrian (alfu), Ancient Greek ἀλφός (alphos, “whiteness, white leprosy”), Hittite (alpas, “cloud”) and Middle Welsh elbid (“world”).
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/albus#Latin
Look at the Hittite (alpas, “cloud”) from high (ai) white (ba, pa). Remember the direct cultural link between Ireland, Serbia and Hitties? Remember Mushki, opanak, the king with goat's ears? This language is older than Hittite empire...
And then it is not surprising that in Latin the word Albus has no root. It can not be broken like it can in Irish. Which means it is older than Latin and was brought into Latin from some other language, which eventually arrived to Ireland, or originated from Ireland....If you read early Roman history, Italy was a mix of people and languages. Latin is a bastard language.
I am having fun doing it on my own, but every time someone joins in, like you did with the posts about Dún Ailinne, he brings something in that I did not see, or think about, and that is great help. I have been wrecking my brain for months about the meaning of Aigle in Cruachán Aigle. And then you sent the texts about Dún Ailinne and everything just clicked together. For that i am very grateful.
I hope this is a clear enough answer.0 -
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dublinviking wrote: »bawn79
Thanks for pointing this out. Here is the picture of Rathcroghan main mound.
What I am trying to tell you guys is that there are several genetic, cultural and linguistic layers in Ireland and in Serbia. One of them is R1a and then there is I1 + I2 layer. These layers can be decoded through Serbian and Irish parallels.
How so? I2 is 15,000 years old or so and has many subgroups.0 -
Is the argument that a large group of Serbians brought their astronomy, agriculture and language to Ireland?
No. The arguments is that the large group of R1a, or I2 early megalithic farmers came from the Balkans up north and ended up in Ireland where they also brought their astronomy and their language. There were many other migrations from central Europe to the Atlantic coast before and later. But this is the one that brought megalithic krug (circle) monuments to Ireland. This language of these early agriculturalists is preserved in oldest layers of Serbian and Irish and other European languages, but i just happened to start discovering it through intersections of Irish and Serbian. One of the reason why Ireland and Britain have preserved some of the oldest traits of this old language, is because they have some of the oldest R1a and I2 populations in the world, which has been isolated from the center of the culture for millenniums, as so stayed conservative.
You can call these people Serbs, or Irish, they are equally both.Have any Universities seriously looked into this?
No. This is why i invited every university professor, every academic i could get the contact details from to my "Old Europe (Vinca) language and culture in early layers of Serbian and Irish culture" thread.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056938477
I was hoping that people will become interested and will start to seriously look into these things. And exchange their knowledge. But maybe i am too optimistic. Old ideas such as Serbs are only Slavic, Irish are only Celtic and before them aliens lived in their lands...are too entrenched, and too many academics made their careers on elaborating these same outdated ideas. We see how mixed people are, we see how different genetic types are of different origin and age. Why is it so crazy to imagine that ancient tribes, people would be linked to particular genes? This is what tribe is, a patriarchal family, so they have to have the same genes. And why is it so impossible that genes are linked to language and culture? Look at distribution of Indo European languages and distribution of R1a and I2 haplogroups. So new tribe comes in, and brings new genes and new language and new culture. But they don't just wipe out the old population, They mixed with them, and exchanged and preserved not just genes, but language, culture...So you get layers...In Irish you have layers of R1a, I2, I2, E1b genes and languages and cultures buried under R1b avalanche. What I am doing is linguistic archaeology. Why do you think you don't know what the names of Irish old gods mean? Because they were not gaelic gods. They were gods of the population which lived in Ireland before gaels arrived. They named their gods using their own language, and in that language the gods names mean something. Like Vid means site, and lite, and knowledge in Serbian, so God Vid, Svetovid means the one who sees everything, who gives site, light to everything, The sun. What is the meaning of the name Lugh, Balor, Beli, Bran, Gobhan...There is no clear etymology in Irish. But there is in Serbian. How is this possible? Because the population that lived in Ireland originally spoke language of R1a and I2 people. And they named their gods using those languages. They also named all the sacred place names accordingly. Then the R1b people arrived, brought their own language, their own culture and mythology. They mixed with the old population, eventually took over, and replaced the old language with the new and the old culture with the new, one which was mixture of the old R1a + I2 and new R1b language and culture. In this new language, the meaning of the names of gods and holy places was forgotten. But these R1b invaders who took over Ireland also took over Serbia. So we have huge R1b cultural influence in Serbia as well. There is a possibility the royal Serbs of the medieval Nemanjic dynasty are actually R1b, from the Carpathian mountains, where the R1b still prevails. The area is known as "old Serbia". Serbian medieval kings called themselves kings of "Племена Цимери" "plemena cimeri" pronounced "plemena tsimeri" meaning the tribe of cimbri, cimru, Celts...Here are royal standards of Nemanjic dinasty from the 13th century.
They came from the "Old Serbia" in the Carpathian mountains on the border between Serbia and Bulgaria.Welsh (Cymraeg or y Gymraeg, pronounced [kəmˈrɑːɨɡ, ə ɡəmˈrɑːɨɡ]) is a member of the Brythonic branch of the Celtic languages spoken natively in Wales, by some along the Welsh border in England, and in Y Wladfa (the Welsh colony in Chubut Province, Argentina).[9] Historically it has also been known in English as "the British tongue",[10] "Cambrian",[11] "Cambric"[12] and "Cymric".[13]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_languageThe Welsh people (Welsh: Cymry) are an ethnic group and nation indigenous to Wales and associated with the Welsh language...
The process whereby the indigenous population of 'Wales' came to think of themselves as Welsh is not clear. There is plenty of evidence of the use of the term Brythoniaid (Britons); by contrast, the earliest use of the word Kymry (referring not to the people but to the land—and possibly to northern Britain in addition to modern day territory of Wales) is found in a poem dated to about 633. The name of the region in northern England now known as Cumbria is derived from the same root.[32] Only gradually did Cymru (the land) and Cymry (the people) come to supplant Brython. Although the Welsh language was certainly used at the time, Gwyn A. Williams argues that even at the time of the erection of Offa's Dyke, the people to its west saw themselves as Roman, citing the number of Latin inscriptions still being made into the 8th century.[33] However, it is unclear whether such inscriptions reveal a general or normative use of Latin as a marker of identity or its selective use by the early Christian Church.
The word Cymry is believed to be derived from the Brythonic combrogi, meaning fellow-countrymen,[29] and thus Cymru carries a sense of "land of fellow-countrymen", "our country"—and, of course, notions of fraternity. The name "Wales", however, comes from the Germanic walha, a term meaning "stranger" or "foreigner" which was applied particularly to peoples who had been Romanised.[34]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_people
In Serbian word "kum" means blood brother, the god father. He is the most important person in your life, he is assigned to you at birth, to guide you through this life, but more importantly to guide you through the after life. His most important role is to help you cross "kumova slama", blood brother's hay, milky way, the Styx river... The mountain people, the shepherds, are called Vlah, but that is also a name which was used for Serbs in medieval time by the Turks and the Catholic church. So Serbs and Vlahs were originally probably the same, non Slavic, R1b population which came from the Carpathian mountains and took control of Slavic and pre Slavic population of Serbia in early medieval time. That mix later became known as Serbs. Serbs just means the best fighters. This is from the first page of the Vinca thread:Saor in Irish means free.
Sar in Irish is a suffix which means the best, grandest, highest, most respected
Bean in Irish means to strike, to cut which together means to fight.
bean
touch, Irish beanaim, beat, touch, appertain to, Old Irish benim, pulso, ferio, Breton bena, to cut, Middle Breton benaff, hit; *bina, root bin, bi (Old Irish ro bi, percussit, bithe, perculsus), from Indo-European bhi, bhei, hit; Church Slavonic bija, biti, strike; Old High German bîhal, axe; Greek @Gfitró;s, log. Further is root bheid, split, English bite. Usually bean has been referred to Indo-European @ghen, @ghon, hit, slay; Greek @Gfen-, slay, @Gepefnon, slew, @Gfó;nos, slaughter, @Gqeí;nw, strike; Sanskrit han, hit; but @gh = Gaelic b is doubtful.
So Sar + bi, bin – The one who is the best in fighting, a solder
In Serbian we have verb bit, which means to strike. In Serbian if you want to make a noun out of a verb that ends in vowel, in masculine form you would ad "n". So Sar + b(h)i + n = The one who is the best at striking....
Serbs were also known as Serboi. This basically means the best fighters, the free fighters.
Have a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BoiiThe Boii (Latin plural, singular Boius; Greek Βόϊοι) were a Gallic tribe of the later Iron Age, attested at various times in Cisalpine Gaul (northern Italy), Pannonia (Hungary and its western neighbours), in and around Bohemia (after whom the region is named), and Transalpine Gaul. In addition the archaeological evidence indicates that in the 2nd century BC Celts expanded from Bohemia through the Kłodzko Valley into Silesia, now part of Poland.[1]
They first appear in history in connection with the Gallic invasion of north Italy, 390 BC, when they made the Etruscan city of Felsina their new capital, Bononia (Bologna). After a series of wars they were decisively beaten by the Romans in a battle near Mutina (Modena) and their territory became part of the Roman province of Cisalpine Gaul. According to Strabo, writing two centuries after the events, rather than being destroyed by the Romans like their Celtic neighbours,
Do you see the name of the Boi capital: Bononia (Bologna). Remember Ban, Van meaning white in Serbian and Irish and Bel , Beo meaning white in Serbian and Welsh? Basically the name of the city is White City, Beli Grad, Beograd, Belgrade. The Balkan territory of the Serbs is littered with Belgrad, Beograd place names. Capital of Serbia is Beograd. Panonian plane is actually Banonian plane, from ban + on + je, meaning white he is, which gives Panonia the meaning the plane of white people.
This is what Wiki says about the etymology of the name Boii:From all the different names of the same Celtic people in literature and inscriptions it is possible to abstract a continental Celtic segment, boio-.[3] There are two major derivations of this segment, both presupposing that it belongs to the family of Indo-European languages: from 'cow' and from 'warrior.' The Boii would thus be either "the herding people" or "the warrior people."
The "cow" derivation depends most immediately on the Old Irish legal term for "outsider:" amboue, from proto-Celtic *ambouios, "not a cattle owner."[4] In a reference to the first known historical Boii, Polybius relates[5] that their wealth consisted of cattle and gold, that they depended on agriculture and war, and that a man's status depended on the number of associates and assistants he had. The latter were presumably the *ambouii, as opposed to the man of status, who was *bouvios, a cattle owner, and the *bouii were originally a class, "the cattle owners."
The "warrior" derivation was adopted by the linguist Julius Pokorny, who presented it as being from Indo-European *bhei(ə)-, *bhī-, "hit;" however, not finding any Celtic names close to it (except for the Boii), he adduces examples somewhat more widely from originals further back in time: phohiio-s-, a Venetic personal name; Boioi, an Illyrian tribe; Boiōtoi, a Greek tribal name ("the Boeotians") and a few others.[6] Boii would be from the o-grade of *bhei-, which is *bhoi-. Such a connection is possible if the original form of Boii belonged to a tribe of Proto-Indo-European speakers long before the time of the historic Boii. The Celtic tribe of central Europe must in that case be a final daughter population of a linguistically diversifying ancestor tribe.
The same wider connections can be hypothesized for the "cow" derivation: the Boeotians have been known for well over a century as a people of kine, which might have been parallel to the meaning of Italy as a "land of calves." Indo-European reconstructions can be made using *gʷou- "cow" as a basis, such as *gʷowjeh³s.[7]
Contemporary derived words include Boiorix ("king of the Boii", one of the chieftains of the Cimbri) and Boiodurum ("gate/fort of the Boii", modern Passau) in Germany. Their memory also survives in the modern regional names of Bohemia (Boiohaemum), a mixed-language form from boio- and Proto-Germanic *haimaz, "home": "home of the Boii," and 'Bayern', Bavaria, which is derived from the Germanic Baiovarii tribe (Germ. *baio-warioz: the first component is most plausibly explained as a Germanic version of Boii; the second part is a common formational morpheme of Germanic tribal names, meaning 'dwellers', as in Anglo-Saxon -ware);[note 1] this combination "Boii-dwellers" may have meant "those who dwell where the Boii formerly dwelt".
There is no contradiction here, if you look at Irish and Serbian.
Bo, Vo is cow, bull, name based on the sound of the cattle
Ba is sheep (reconstructed old name based on the sound of sheep)
Bo means stab, like with a horn of a bull, or a spear
Bosti - to stab
Boj, Voj - battle
bijnik, Vojnik - solder
So Boji could be, and probably were both cattle herders and solders. The agricultural people re linked to the land. They have to stay on it all year round, or their crops will fail. Shepherds are not linked to the land. Actually they are forced to migrate following their herds. This makes shepherds predisposed to be solders. And we have exactly that in Serbia.
So Serboi just means the best boi, the best solders, the aristocracy of the central European "Celts", "the Celtic tribe of central Europe which must be a final daughter population of a linguistically diversifying ancestor tribe..."
But boi could also come from Beo, which means the same as Ban, white. Maybe boi comes from Beoja singular meaning beo + ja = white + i am and Beoji plural meaning beo + ji = white + you are. I believe that these terms are also linked, because bo, ba, be, the sound of a milk producing cattle as well as crying ba(by) is associated with milk, which is white. So ba, be became root words for Ban, Van, Beo, Bel all meaning white. When Afroasiatic population invade Europe, they encountered white people in today's Greece. The land was known as Boeotia = Beo + ti + ja = white + you + country, or Boj + ti + ja = Fighter + you + country, or Bo + ti + ja = cattle, sheep + you + country. All three etymologies are derived from the same root coming from the sound that cattle, sheep make.
This is what Wiki says about Boeotia:Boeotia was one of the earliest inhabited regions in prehistoric Greece.[citation needed] Many Greek ancient legends, including a number related to the aboriginal population, originate in this region. The Muses of Mount Helicon, the myths of Oedipus and the sphinx, of Dionysos and Semele, of Amphion and Antiope, the myth of King Kadmus as bringer of the alphabet, the mythic king Ogyges related to the first mentioned great deluge, and many other legends became part of the Greek culture. The older myths took their final form during the Mycenean age (1600–1200 BC) when the Mycenean Greeks established themselves in Boeotia and the city of Thebes became an important centre. Many of these legends are related to the myths of Argos in southern Greece which is close to Mycenae, the most powerful Mycenean kingdom. Some of them indicate connections with Phoenicia, where the Mycenean Greeks and later the Euboean Greeks established trading posts.
Hesiod, the ancient poet of Theogony who included many legends of the first Greek cosmogony and in the genealogy of the gods, was born in Boeotia. Later Pindar, the great Greek poet born in Thebes, was influenced by an older religion different from the Olympic pantheon. In Lebadea was the ancient oracular shrine of Trophonius, related to the old chthonic religion. Many of these legends were used as themes by the tragic Greek poets, in their masterpieces Oedipus the King, Antigone, Seven Against Thebes, Antiope and also in the lost play Niobe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeotia
The area of "old Serbia, Ser boia" is the same area where we find all the "celtic" crosses and where I come from. The mountain overlooking my father's village is called Vlasina, the mountain of Vlahs, Walachs...Basically the mountains of the Balkans, the same mountains that preserved the old European language and culture were the land of the white, shepherd warriors.
So the story is not so simple. It is a riddle inside of a mystery...But that is why it is fun.0 -
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IpsoThe term Cymru for the Welsh has only been used in the post Roman era? How ancient of a link are we talking here?
I don't know. This is just one of the links. I said that many times. There are layers here, many layers. This particular one is probably iron age and onward, 500bc and after. This is probably R1b link, much more recent then the earlier R1a and I2a links. I believe that even Vinca links are not the oldest, as you can see from my discussion on fire on Vinca thread. When i started that thread i could only follow the link back to Vinca. But now i am sure the link is much older and it goes back to paleolithic times.
KildareAs regards the cultures in-between Serbia and Ireland, there would have been numerous civilations, Angels, Germannic races etc. Did these languages show any evolution towards the Vinca / Gaelic languages?
There is a common layer in all European languages. This is normal because R1a, I2 people lived all over Central Europe from paleolithic times, and r1b from at least late neolithic. But once you dig into it, you keep finding that the roots are in Serbian or Irish. We are talking about building blocks of the language, the most basic terms, sounds and syllables which carry meaning and which are used for building complex words. I did not talk about it yet in great detail, but when i do you will see what i mean. You can see bits strewn all over Vinca tread.When I mentioned the language being brought over by the Romans I meant the staff / retinue / slaves that were always dragged along by the Romans. Was kinda the same for every army until modern times.
Slaves would not have enough influence to impose cultural traits. But there were a lot of Soldiers from the Balkans in the Roman army. Elite troops. Lots of Sarmatians, Some Thracians (Celts) moved to Britain since the Roman invasion under Claudius in AD 43. They, as military elite would have had huge influence in Britain. But there were no Romans in Ireland, and certainly no Romans in Ireland at the time the astronomical circles were built, 4000 bc.
The gravestone of Longinus Sdapeze, duplicarius of ala I Thracum, son of Matygus, born in/around Serdica, found in Camulodunum (Colchester).
The true name of the city (now Sophia, the capital of Bulgaria) was Serdica, the city of the Serdi, a Thracian people defeated by Crassus in 29 B.C. and subjected to the Kingdom of Thrace, the vassal of Rome. When this kingdom was suppressed in 49 B.C. the Serdi were included in the Roman Province of Thracia. The Emperor Trajan transformed the borough of the Serdi into a city which he called Ulpia Serdica. In 275 Aurelian caused Dacia beyond the Danube to be evacuated, and transplanted to Moesia and Thracia the soldiers and colonists who were faithful to the Roman cause. The country occupied by these immigrants formed the new Province of Dacia, Sardica being included in this province (Homo, „Essai sur le regne de l'empereur Aurelien”, 313-21). Later, Diocletian divided Dacia into Dacia Ripensis and Dacia Mediterranea. Sardica was the civil and ecclesiastical metropolis of the latter. Gallienus established a mint at Sardica, and Constantine the Great, who was born in the region, contemplated making it his capital. Ecclesiastically, Sardica belonged to the Patriarchate of Rome until 733, when it was annexed to that of Constantinople until 809. Upon the conversion of the Bulgarians, in 865, Sardica was one of the first cities which had a see. Until 1204 it was included in the Graeco-Bulgarian Patriarchate of Achrida, until 1393 in the Bulgarian Patriarchate of Tirnovo, and until 1872 in that of Constantinople. Since then Sardica, or, as it is now called, Sophia, belongs to the national Church of Bulgaria. The earliest known bishop is Protagenes, who assisted at the Council of Nicaea in 325; the best known is Bonosus, who shortly afterwards attacked the virginity of the Blessed Virgin. (For the council held here in the fourth century see Council of Sardica.)
the Bulgars, who changed its name to Sredetz, later transformed by the Greeks into Sraditza and Triaditza. Again occupied by the Greeks from 1018 to 1186, it enjoyed great prosperity; a section of the population was Paulician or Manichaean. After some years of troubles it again fell into the power of the Bulgars. Its present name of Sophia dates from the Middle Ages, though the precise date of its first use cannot be assigned. In the sixteenth century Sredetz and Sophia were used simultaneously. In 1382 the city was captured by the Turks, and for more than four centuries it was the residence of the beglerbeg, or governor general, of Rumelia. In 1878 Sophia was chosen as the capital of the Principality of Bulgaria, and since 1908 has been the capital of the Kingdom of Bulgaria. A vicariate Apostolic was created here at an early date and confided to the Franciscans. In 1610 Rome reestablished the See of Sophia, which in 1643 was made archiepiscopal. It was suppressed towards the end of the eighteenth century, because the Catholics were persecuted by the Turks and had emigrated, mostly to Austria and Russia. Relative peace was restored in 1835. And Rome confided the direction of the Catholics to the Redemptorists, under a vicar Apostolic who had not received episcopal consecration. The Redemptorists were replaced by the Capuchins in 1841, their superior being consecrated bishop in 1848. At present an archbishop is at the head of this vicariate Apostolic. Sophia has 105,000 inhabitants, of whom a small number are Catholics. The Christian Brothers have a school there, and the Sisters of St. Joseph of the Apparition three convents.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13472b.htmThe Serdi were a Celtic tribe[1] inhabiting Thrace. They were located around Serdika (Bulgarian: Сердика, Latin: Ulpia Serdica, Greek: Σαρδῶν πόλις), now Sofia in Bulgaria,[2] which reflects their ethnonym. They would have established themselves in this area during the Celtic migrations at the end of the 4th century BC, though there is no evidence for their existence before the 1st century BC. Serdi are among traditional tribal names reported into the Roman era.[3] They were gradually Thracianized over the centuries but retained their Celtic character in material culture up to a late date.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serdi
This is where old Serbia was. Thracian horsemen the best cavalry of the old era, Serbian horsemen the best cavalry of the new era. I will talk about this soon.
Now some more about this Serbian Irish R1b link:All Saints' Day (also known as All Hallows, Solemnity of All Saints or The Feast of All Saints)[3] is a solemnity celebrated on 1 November by the Catholic Church, and on the first Sunday after Pentecost in Eastern Catholicism, in honour of all the saints, known and unknown. All Saints' Day is the second day of Hallowmas,[4] and begins at sunrise on the first day of November and finishes at sundown. It is the day before All Souls' Day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Saints'_DayIn most European languages the name of the feast comes from the ecclesiastical term: Pentecdte in French, Fentecostes in Spanish, Pfingsten in German, Binkosti in Slovenian, Piinkosd in Hungarian, Pintse in Danish, Fentikosti among the Slavs of the Eastern Church, and Pentiqosti in Syrian. A word meaning "Feast of the Holy Ghost" (Duhovi, Twice) is used by some Slavic nations, including the Serbs, Croats, and Slovaks, and by the Romanians (Domineca Spiritului Santu). The English word Whitsunday (White Sunday) originated because of the fact that the newly baptized appeared in white garments for the services of. the day. Among the Arab-speaking Christians of the Near East the festival is called 'id el-uncure (Feast of the Solemn Assembly), the word coming from the Hebrew 'asereth (festive meeting).3
Some nations have appropriately named the feast after the ancient custom of decorating homes and churches with flowers and boughs. This practice goes back to the nature lore of the Indo-European races. At the time of full spring, when trees stood in their early foliage and flowers blossomed in abundance, our pre-Christian ancestors celebrated a gay festival, with maypole, May Queen, and May dance, during which they adorned their homes with flowers and branches of pale-green tender leaves. This custom was retained in Christian times, and some of its features were transferred to the Feast of Pentecost. Thus the festival is called the "Green Holyday" {Zielone Swieta) in Poland and among the Ukrainians, "Flower Feast" (Blumenfest) in Germany, "Summer Feast" (Slavnost Letnice) among the Czechs. In the Latin countries a similar term is used: Pascha Rosatum, in Latin, meaning "Feast of Roses." The Italian name Pascua Rossa (Red Pasch) was inspired by the color of the liturgical vestments.4
http://www.keithhunt.com/Pentecost.htmlYellow flowers such as primrose, rowan, hawthorn, gorse, hazel and marsh marigold were set at doorways and windows in 19th century Ireland, Scotland and Mann. Sometimes loose flowers were strewn at the doors and windows and sometimes they would be made into bouquets, garlands or crosses and fastened to them. They would also be fastened to cows and equipment for milking and butter making. It is likely that such flowers were used because they evoked fire.[2] Similar May Day customs are found across Europe.
The May Bush was popular in parts of Ireland until the late 19th century.[3] This was small tree, typically a thorn tree, that would be decorated with bright flowers, ribbons, painted shells, and so forth. There were household May Bushes (which would be set outside each house) and communal May Bushes (which would be set in a public spot or paraded around the neighbourhood). In Dublin and Belfast, May Bushes were brought into town from the countryside and decorated by the whole neighbourhood.[3] Each neighbourhood vied for the most handsome tree and, sometimes, residents of one would try to steal the May Bush of another. This led to the May Bush being outlawed in Victorian times.[3] In some places, it was customary to dance around the May Bush, and at the end of the festivities it was burnt in the bonfire.[15] Thorn trees were seen as special trees and were associated with the sí or fairies. The custom of decorating a May Bush or May Tree was found in many parts of Europe. Frazer believes that such customs are a relic of tree worship and writes: "The intention of these customs is to bring home to the village, and to each house, the blessings which the tree-spirit has in its power to bestow".[16] Sharon MacLeod writes that May Bushes were set outside farmhouses "to encourage and protect the abundance of milk during the summer".[17] Emyr Estyn Evans suggests that the May Bush custom may have come to Ireland from England, because it seemed to be found in areas with strong English influence and because the Irish saw it as unlucky to damage certain thorn trees.[18] However, "lucky" and "unlucky" trees varied by region,[17] and it has been suggested that Beltane was the only time when cutting thorn trees was allowed.[19] The practice of bedecking a May Bush with flowers, ribbons, garlands and coloured shells is found among the Gaelic diaspora, most notably in Newfoundland, and in some Easter traditions on the East Coast of the United States.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeltaneThe May Bush was a decorated bush, which in rural areas was left outside the house. In towns, it was erected in a communal place. Sometimes it was carried about the area by groups of adults although later this custom was carried out by children. Geographically, the tradition was strongest in Leinster and the Midlands, stretching west to Galway and northwards to south Ulster and Donegal. The bush was often of hawthorn. The decoration usually consisted of ribbons, cloth streamers and perhaps tinsel. Sometimes the leftover coloured eggshells painted for Easter Sunday were used as decorations. On occasions, candles were attached to it. ‘Long Life, a pretty wife and a candle for the May Bush’ was a rhyme recounted by children in Dublin when looking for a contribution of candles, money or sweets for their May Day festivities. Sometimes communal bushes were burnt on May Day evening. The bush was associated with the luck of the house or the community and in cities it was watched carefully in case a rival group would attempt to steal it. The custom of erecting a May bush still survives as an individual household tradition, particularly in the Midlands.
http://www.museum.ie/en/list/topic-may-day.aspx?article=89810988-4de7-4977-89d7-a6cb7038c170
http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/ACalend/Beltane.htmlĐurđevdan (Ђурђевдан, pronounced [ˈdʑuːrdʑeʋdaːn], "George's day" in Serbian, Gergyovden "George's day" in Bulgarian, Jurjevo "George's" in Croatian and Bosnian or Gjurgjuvden (Ѓурѓовден) in Macedonian, is a South-Slavic religious holiday, celebrated on April 23 by the Julian calendar (May 6 by Gregorian calendar), which is the feast of Saint George and a very important Slava. He is one of the most important Christian saints in Orthodox churches: the patron saint of Slav, Georgian and Circassian Christian warriors, Cossacks, Chetniks, and armies. This holiday is attached to the tradition of celebrating the beginning of spring. Christian synaxaria hold that St. George was a martyr who died for his faith. On icons, he is usually depicted as a man riding a horse and killing a dragon. Jurjevo is mainly celebrated in the rural areas of Croatia, mostly Turopolje and Gornja Stubica whereas every Đurđevdan is celebrated all over the Serbian diaspora but mainly in Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia Herzegovina and Macedonia. In Croatian St. George is called Sv. Juraj while in Serbian he's called Sveti Đorđe (Serbian Cyrillic: Свети Ђорђе), in Bulgarian Sveti Georgi (Cyrillic: Свети Георги) and in Macedonian Sv. Gjorgjija (Ѓорѓија)....This holiday celebrates the return of springtime and is considered the most important. The traditions of the Roma Durđevdan are based on decorating the home with flowers and blooming twigs as a welcoming to spring. It also includes taking baths added with flowers and washing hands with water from church wells. Also the walls of the home could be washed with the water. On the day of the feast it is most common to grill a lamb for the feast dinner. The appearance of music is also very important during this holiday. Aside from dancing and singing, traditional Brass bands are popular.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%90ur%C4%91evdan
St Georgie is actually old Slavic god of Spring and youth Jarilo. He has epithet "green" and is said to bring life to the earth.The only historic source that mentions this deity is a 12th-century biography of proselytizing German bishop Otto of Bamberg, who, during his expeditions to convert the pagan tribes of Wendish and Polabian Slavs, encountered festivals in honor of the war-god Gerovit in cities of Wolgast and Havelberg. Gerovit is most likely a German corruption of original Slavic name Jarovit.
Up until the 19th century in Russia, Belarus and Serbia, folk festivals called Jarilo were celebrated in late spring or early summer. Early researchers of Slavic mythology recognised in them relics of pagan ceremonies in honor of an eponymous spring deity. In Northern Croatia and Southern Slovenia, similar spring festivals were called Jurjevo or Zeleni Juraj or Zeleni Jurij (Green George), nominally dedicated to St. George, and fairly similar to Jarilo festivals of other Slavic nations.
All of these spring festivals were basically alike: Processions of villagers would go around for a walk in the country or through villages on this day. Something or someone was identified to be Jarilo or Juraj: A doll made of straw, a man or a child adorned with green branches, or a girl dressed like a man, riding on a horse. Certain songs were sung which alluded to Juraj/Jarilo's return from a distant land across the sea, the return of spring into the world, blessings, fertility and abundance to come.
Jarilo was a son of the supreme Slavic god of thunder, Perun, his lost, missing, tenth son, born on the last night of February, the festival of Velja Noć (Great Night), the pagan Slavic celebration of the New Year. On the same night, however, Jarilo was stolen from his father and taken to the world of the dead, where he was adopted and raised by Veles, Perun's enemy, Slavic god of the underworld and cattle. The Slavs believed the underworld to be an ever-green world of eternal spring and wet, grassy plains, where Jarilo grew up guarding the cattle of his stepfather. In the mythical geography of ancient Slavs, the land of the dead was assumed to lie across the sea, where migrating birds would fly every winter.
With the advent of spring, Jarilo returned from the underworld, that is, bringing spring and fertility to the land. Spring festivals of Jurjevo/Jarilo that survived in later folklore celebrated his return. Katičić identified a key phrase of ancient mythical texts which described this sacred return of vegetation and fertility as a rhyme hoditi/roditi (to walk/to give birth to), which survived in folk songs:
...Gdje Jura/Jare/Jarilo hodit, tam vam polje rodit...
"...Where Jura/Jare/Jarilo walks, there your field gives birth..."
The first of the gods to notice Jarilo's return to the living world was Morana, a goddess of death and nature, and also a daughter of Perun and Jarilo's twin-sister. The two of them would fall in love and court each other through a series of traditional, established rituals, imitated in various Slavic courting or wedding customs. The divine wedding between brother and sister, two children of the supreme god, was celebrated in a festival of summer solstice, today variously known as Ivanje or Ivan Kupala in the various Slavic countries. This sacred union of Jarilo and Morana, deities of vegetation and of nature, assured abundance, fertility and blessing to the earth, and also brought temporary peace between two major Slavic gods, Perun and Veles, signifying heaven and underworld. Thus, all mythical prerequisites were met for a bountiful and blessed harvest that would come in late summer.
However, since Jarilo's life was ultimately tied to the vegetative cycle of the cereals, after the harvest (which was ritually seen as a murder of crops), Jarilo also met his death. The myth explained this by the fact that he was unfaithful to his wife, and so she (or her father Perun, or his other nine sons, her brothers) kills him in retribution. This rather gruesome death is in fact a ritual sacrifice, and Morana uses parts of Jarilo's body to build herself a new house. This is a mythical metaphor which alludes to rejuvenation of the entire cosmos, a concept fairly similar to that of Scandinavian myth of Ymir, a giant from whose body the gods created the world.
Without her husband, however, Morana turns into a frustrated old hag, a terrible and dangerous goddess of death, frost and upcoming winter, and eventually dies by the end of the year. At the beginning of the next year, both she and Jarilo are born again, and the entire myth starts anew.
Katičić and Belaj suggest that the god had an equine characteristic. Folk accounts strongly emphasize the presence of a horse (in Belarusian festivals, for instance, Jarilo was symbolised by a girl dressed as a man and mounted on a horse), and also the fact Jarilo walked a long way and his feet are sore. Thus, he is a rider on a horse who also "walks".
In historic descriptions of West Slavic paganism, one often finds references to sacred horses held in temples, which were used for divination, and predictions were made on the basis of how the horse walked through rows of spears sticking from the ground.
In certain customs of some Baltic and Slavic wedding celebrations, a horse symbolises a young husband.
In some Slavic folk songs, an angry young wife, apparently cheated upon by her husband, kills a horse or orders her brothers to kill it for her.
Jarilo's identification as a mischievous god may involve the ability of shapeshifting. This is seen in other mischievous pagan deities, such as Proteus and Loki, who himself once took the form of a horse.
All this led Katičić and Belaj to conclude that Jarilo himself was conceived of as a horse.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JariloJURJEVANJE
Jarilo (nowdays known as Zeleni Jurij, The Green George) is the god who is carried from the underwold every winter by the birds. Birds are sacred because they bring gods from underworld and they carry dead people's souls to the other world...beyond the sea.
Jarilo makes the meadows and pastures all green. Very old songs say that Jarilo walks and rides at the same time. And there are also other innuendos that he is half horse. Quite a few historians agree due to other studies that Jarilo looks a bit like kentaur, half man, half horse.
»Jarost« is the word describing something new, something fresh, that energy that young people have and it fades by the age and only rare can keep. From the root, the name of the god comes, he brings new year, freshness.
His other name is "vesnik" a male version of the archaic word for spring (vesna).
Jarilo starts his journey from the underground on spring equinox and on his way he makes the nature more on more green everywhere he steps. He meets Mara, she gives him an apple to show she will marry him. Many nations celebrate spring equinox aa the start of the spring and the conquer of the day over night.
However in Slovenia, the tradition of the "Green George" goes on at the end of april, because, following the nature, shepperds only then started to bring the stock out to the pastures and only then the work in the fields began.
Then a man gets dressed in greenery and they go from village to village from door to door to bring a good energy for a good harvest and a fruitful year. Zeleni Jurij is most of all known in southern parts of Slovenia.
He is the new energy and a strong young man. In other slavic lands he is also the god of war, his temples alsways had shield of Jarilo.
In Slovenia later on in christian time, soldiers would call to St. Jurij for protection and even now, when people go into the batlles or fighting for someting we call "na juriš", derrived form the sae word.
That is how we may assume that Jurij/Jarilo has, besides bringing the new spring, also war attributes.
Ritual is in close connection to the singing, the girls that sing spring songs and go from house to house are called ladarice.
People are driving in a carriages carrying on the man wearing green leaves depicting Jarilo-Jurij.
Traditionally, when native faith association celebrates, there are offerings to a god made out of food and jumping over the fires is a "must do" so love amongst us guaranteed and the protection.
May bush from Croatia:
Serbian orhtodox church was created by the Nemanjic dynasty in 13th century. For All saints day, originally the first day of summer, Beltane, Jurjevo, Jarilov dan, Serbian orthodox priests wear green robes:
In Serbia the beginning of the summer is celebrated on Jurjevdan, celebrated on the 6th of May every year. This is the first day of the summer, the day when sheep are moved to the mountain pastures. The end of summer i celebrated on the 8th of November every year on the day called Mitrovdan the day of st Mitar. This is when the sheep are brought down from the mountains.During the Middle Ages, St Demetrios came to be revered as one of the most important Orthodox military saints, often paired with Saint George. One theory is that his veneration was transferred from Sirmium when Thessaloniki replaced it as the main military base in the area in 441/442 AD. His very large church in Thessaloniki, the Hagios Demetrios, dates from the mid-5th century.[2] Thessaloniki remained a centre of his veneration, and he is the patron saint of the city.
After the growth of his veneration as saint, the city of Thessaloniki suffered repeated attacks and sieges from the Slavic peoples who moved into the Balkans, and Demetrius was credited with many miraculous interventions to defend the city. Hence later traditions about Demetrius regard him as a soldier in the Roman army, and he came to be regarded as an important military martyr. Unsurprisingly, he was extremely popular in the Middle Ages, and along with Saint George, was the patron of the Crusades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_of_ThessalonikiSirmium was a city in ancient Roman Pannonia. First mentioned in the 4th century BC and originally inhabited by the Illyrians and Celts,[1] it was conquered by the Romans in the 1st century BC and subsequently became the capital of the Roman province of Lower Pannonia. Remains of Sirmium are situated on the locality of the modern day Sremska Mitrovica, 55 km west of Belgrade (Roman Singidunum) and 145 km away from Kostolac (Roman Viminacium). Archaeologists have found traces of organized human life on the site of Sirmium dating from 5,000 BC.[4] The city was firstly mentioned in the 4th century BC and was originally inhabited by the Illyrians and Celts[5] (i.e. by the Pannonian-Illyrian Amantini[6] and the Celtic Scordisci[7]). The Triballian King Syrmus was later considered the eponymous founder of Sirmium, but the roots are different, and the two words only became conflated later.[8] The name Sirmium by itself means "flow", "flowing water", "wetland", referring to its close river position on the nearby Sava, Latin Savus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirmium
Scordisci are the alleged founders of the Serbian capital, Belgrade.
Please note green and gold colors on St Dimitrije, St Mitar. The two military saints of the Serbs, St George and St Mitar, divide the year into the light and dark half, summer and winter, in the exactly the same way the Irish old calendar does with Beltane and Samhain.
Here are some frescoes of the guardians of summer and the sun, Georgije and Mitar. Please note green, orange and gold colors again:
The cult of holy warriors was extremely strong in Serbia. Nothing strange for a military caste. Here is a fresco from monastery Manasija from the start of the 15th century, depicting holy warriors in the contemporary Serbian military equipment. Please note the colors, orange (red) green and gold.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manasija_monastery
Why are all these Serbian warriors and Saints wearing green, orange and gold?Stephen Dušan (Serbian: Stefan Dušan/Стефан Душан, pronounced [stêfaːn ûroʃ tʃětʋr̩ːtiː dǔʃan]), commonly known as Stephen Dušan and Dušan the Mighty (Dušan Silni/Душан Силни; c. 1308 – 20 December 1355), was the King of Serbia (from 8 September 1331) and Emperor of the Serbs and Greeks (from 16 April 1346) until his death on 20 December 1355. Dušan conquered a large part of southeast Europe, becoming one of his era's most powerful monarchs. He enacted the constitution of the Serbian Empire in Dušan's Code, perhaps the most important work of medieval Serbia. Dušan promoted the Serbian Church from an archbishopric to a patriarchate, finished the construction of the Visoki Dečani-monastery (UNESCO site), and founded the Saint Archangels Monastery, among others. Under his rule Serbia reached its territorial, economical, political and cultural peak.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Uro%C5%A1_IV_Du%C5%A1an_of_Serbia
King Stephen Dušan, the king of the tribe of Cimbri had a very interesting flag. King Dušan's flag was triangular with green, orange and yellow colors. The flag was kept in Hilandar monastery until the monastery burned down in a arson attack by Albanians in 1990's. Here is a description of the flag from a book from 1938:
Here is a reconstruction based on the book:
Here is the actual flag on a pucture taken before the monastery was burned down:
The blood line of the Nemanjic dynasty. Please note the colors of the fresco, green and gold:
Interesting, don't you think? It gets even more interesting when we see that the totem animal of the Serbs was "Zmaj Ogjeni Vuk" meaning Dragon fiery wolf, Draco, Dracul...Uroboros, dragon...Remember Pandragon, king Arthur, The Sarmatian? Where did he come from?0 -
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I think R1b-p312 and it's subgroups correlate better with its spread in Western Europe.
I would go further to P312 parent R1b-L11. This is the "parent" of two major subclades namely P312 and U106. With P312 showing highest distrubition in areas traditionally either Italic or Celtic speaking and U106 showing highest levels in the Germanic world.
A simplified map that Dr. Michael Hammer presented at the FTDNA conference late last year:
Of course there is one clade of P312 that is associated with Scandinavia (namely L238).
In case of Ireland the dominant clade of P312 is marked by SNP L21, with DF27 coming distant second. It's the reverse in Iberia in comparison.0 -
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Arbins? now there's a makey-up term from Klyosov.
It is as good as term Arians. Arians (RIa) Arbins (RIb). I think it should have been Aribins...:)
So how do we know they came from Asia minor over Balkans and not from central Asia via Black Sea steppe, which is much more logical route if the oldest Arbins are found at the edge of the European Steppe, and if they came from Asia?
Is it also not possible, that Arbins entered Europe from the North Western Atlantic, via Ireland and Britain, to Germanic lands of lowlands and Frisland?
If this is diagram of the spreading of the Bell beaker culture:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture
Why and how do you draw the diagram you posted earlier, showing the entry point into Europe to be the Balkans? Is this based on some clairvoyant knowledge or wish, rather then facts? The spreading of Bell beakers from North Africa, West of Europe, then to the north west of Europe and finally into Central and Eastern Europe seems much more likely.
Can you please explain this discrepancy between the archaeological, genetic, linguistic data, which all show concentration of Arbin genes, languages and culture diminishing from west to east, and your map which shows that they entered Europe from the Balkans? Wouldn't have they left some trace from Bosforus to Germany?0 -
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The term Aryan is specifically derived from Sanskrit: आर्य (ā́rya). This word is a cognate to the Irish Aire. They both derive from Proto-Indo European: *h₄eryós. As far as I know "Arbin" is a made-up term with no connection to Proto-Indo-European....As far as I know "Arbin" is a made-up term with no connection to Proto-Indo-European...
If you didn't get it from the smiley face, am joking. I think you should try to see the funny and poetic side of all this.
I know that Arian is ancient term.
But don't you think that it is a kind of poetic Justice to discover that Arians are RIa people? The old untermensch of the wanna be Arians from Germany and England who turned out to be non Arians...
Isn't it funny that Slavs (R1a) the "Barbarians who came to Europe from the steppe and destroyed our European cultured paradise", turned out to be the original Europeans?
And the Cultured western Europeans turned out to be the barbarians who burst into Europe looking for heads for their spears? Not that R1b people did that. I will explain further down.
Isn't it even funnier that Serbs, from the land that Germans, once they cleared it from Serbs, wanted to call Eugenia, turned out to be genetic descendants of one of the oldest European genetic groups? And probable descendants of Vinca people, the first European civilization. And to know that Germans wanted to exterminate Serbians because they were barbaric race which never contributed anything to the European culture (with approval from the British, and particularly Churchil who though the same)...
I find all this really funny. I don't care about who is who. I never did my genetic test. I have no idea what genetic type anyone i know is. And it doesn't matter. I am glad that Serbia, which was always welcoming to everyone, is the most genetically mixed place in Europe. The more the merrier. But it seems that people get really angry when their preconceptions get challenged by facts.
I don't actually care very much for bold letters and titles. I care about data. And data says no traces of Bell Beaker people in the Balkans. And I can tell you why. Look at the geography of the Balkans. Lots of rivers, lots of mountains, lots of bad people with lots of weapons. Very bad for people on horses and later chariots. This is why they all stayed east and north of Carpatian mountains and Danube. This is why old Balkan cultures survived until today. This is why you have an island of I2a in the sea of R1 (A and
. So I really doubt that there was any Balkan rout into Europe. If Arbins came from Armenia, then they came via Black sea steppe, like Huns after them. But they could equally have come from Central Asia, via Asia minor, via north Africa to west of Europe as well as via Black Sea steppe. Maybe the original Bell beakers came via the sea. And the later waves came via the steppe with the steppe people invasions of the migration period. Not everyone had to come at the same time. The fact that the concentration is the highest in the West of Europe surely points to the fact that Arbins have been in that part of Europe the longest?
Once established in north west Europe, they could have attacked south of Europe and the Balkans. These invasions are well documented with Celtic invasion of the Balkans and Asia minor one of the ways of spreading the genes below Danube. If genes in the south east are older then the ones in the north west, this does not necessarily mean that the spreading was from south east to north west. At the time of Celtic and migration period invasions, whole clans went together, including women and children. No one stayed at home. So it is entirely possible that some clans with the oldest genes just moved south and settled in the Balkans and in Asia minor during Celtic invasions of the south eastern Europe. And maybe the oldest clans never left central Asia until the migration period and only then moved to south of Europe with Huns, Tatars and Slavs. And maybe some of them moved down to Asia minor and later entered Europe with Turks? It is also possible that a lot of R1b people came to Europe with Macedonians and Romans and settled in the Balkans, bringing old subclades with them. We can't exclude any of these migration options.
Again look at the distribution map of R1b:
How is this possible if the main body of the Arbin people came through the Balkans? And how did they enter western Europe through the wall of R1a people living above Danube all the way to Baltic?
Did Arbins prosper because they were nomads, shepherds and they survived the sudden climate changes which devastated agricultural population of Europe several times over? Do you remember what i wrote about the flood in Vinca thread:
In the book "The Secrets of the Irish Landscape" we read that according to the dendrochronological research done in Ireland on Irish bog Oaks, during the period between 2354 bc and 2345 bc the oaks completely stopped growing and showed bark changes which indicate that they were submerged in water. It seems that it started to rain and it didn't stop for 10 years. This caused complete failure and disappearance of the existing stone age culture due to crop failure. After the rain stopped we see the old culture being replaced by the beaker culture in a sharp artifact cut. Interestingly in the annals of four masters we find this:The Age of the World, 2545. Rudhruidhe, son of Parthalon, was drowned in Loch Rudhruidhe, the lake having flowed over him; and from him the lake is called.
The Age of the World, 2546. An inundation of the sea over the land at Brena in this year, which was the seventh lake eruption that occurred in the time of Parthalon; and this is named Loch Cuan.
http://www.ucc.ie/celt/online/T100005A/The Ussher chronology is a 17th-century chronology of the history of the world formulated from a literal reading of the Bible by James Ussher, the Archbishop of Armagh (Church of Ireland). The chronology is sometimes associated with young Earth creationism, which holds that the universe was created only a few millennia ago by God as described in the first two chapters of the Biblical book of Genesis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ussher_chronology
The reason why i am mentioning Ussher chronology is that in his list of dates the date for the biblical flood to 2348 bc, right in the middle of the above major weather event.
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v1/n1/world-born-4004-bc
But the bible and the Irish are not the only ones to record this event.
In Chinese records we read that after there were 9 years of rain after 2346 bc.
Mayans talk about big floods and rain in 236o.
Something major weather wise has happened in the middle of the 3rd millennium bc. Did that wipe out the original agricultural R1a and I2 agricultural population from the north of Europe, freeing the land for the expansion of the first wave of R1b shepherds?
The same thing happened around 800 BC, when all the bog bodies were deposited across northern Europe, because of the sudden change of climate to wet and cold climate, which devastated local agricultural population again.
In Serbia, R1a, I2, R1b people have been living side by side for millenniums. R1a and I2 predominantly in valleys and agricultural flat lands working the land, and R1b in the mountains minding their flocks. There was never any animosity among them because there was no competition for resources. I believe that we had the same situation in the rest of Europe, but the balance was destroyed not by war but by climate change.
What do you think?0 -
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A Runic calendar (also Rune staff or Runic Almanac) is a perpetual calendar based on the 19 year long Metonic cycle of the Moon. Runic calendars were written on parchment or carved onto staves of wood, bone, or horn. The oldest one known, and the only one from the Middle Ages, is the Nyköping staff from Sweden, believed to date from the 13th century. Most of the several thousand which survive are wooden calendars dating from the 16th and the 17th centuries. During the 18th century, the Runic calendars had a renaissance, and around 1800, such calendars were made in the form of tobacco boxes in brass.
A typical Runic calendar consisted of several horizontal lines of symbols, one above the other.
Special days like solstices, equinoxes, and celebrations (including Christian holidays and feasts) were marked with additional lines of symbols.
The calendar does not rely on knowledge of the length of the tropical year or of the occurrence of leap years. It is set at the beginning of each year by observing the first full moon after the winter solstice. The first full moon also marked the date of Disting, a pagan feast and a fair day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_calendar
This is what I was talking about at the very beginning of my writing about ancient solar lunar calendars:In mountains of Serbia, in the 20th century, peasants carried with them a year stick. It was a stick with a notch for every day and a cross for major holy days, which in Serbia are all linked to major agricultural events. Every day that was gone was cut off from the stick. Very simple way to track time. But to do this effectively, you need to know:
1. when does the year start
2. how many full moons there are in a year
3. how many days there are in a moon
4. how many full extra days there are after the end of the last full moon
Once you know this, you can make the your stick calendar.
How do you determine all the above? First you realize that there is a day and a night. And that as each night passes, moon changes. Then one night moon become full. You start marking the full moons "u štap" together with the number of nights between full moons. You realize that there is a cycle. 28 or 29 days cycle of moon changing. You start calling this period moon (mesec in Serbian). At the same time you notice that the sun is changing in a longer cycle. It gets higher over the horizon and hotter and then lower and colder. So You find a level place from where you can observe the sunrise and sunset all year round. You then use a stick, a post and stick it into the ground. Then you use a rope and another stick to mark a circle around the central post. You use the center of the circle as a static observation point. You build a circular rampart using sticks, stakes to mark the circle's edge. You observe the sunrise movement, and when it stops moving in the winter you mark the point on the rampart with a really tall stick. Or you make a gate, the sun gate. You can do that in the winter solstice. Now you have your year starting point. You connect the center of the circle with the point of the solstice by drawing a line, a time line. Then from the winter solstice starting point, you count number of days in a moon, and you mark it "u štap" in a stick. You can do this by cutting notches into a stick or by placing a stick in line along the line of time. The last "u štap", full moon before the winter solstice marker, tells you how many moons there are in a year. Then you have dead days until the winter solstice. These are the days where everyone is at the sun circle, celebrating the sun turning. These are still taboo days in Serbia. You count these days as well. You can mark the whole thing with circular or linear stakes, and later stones, so you don't forget it. Then you cut your calendar stick and everyone goes away until the end of the stick (year) when they all come back to get the new calendar.
Serbian calendar stick Raboš, Rvaš, rabuš, rovaš, rozaljka, riza. The word means cut, notch, sign (eg, as a cut on an ear of a pig marking the ownership), account, smartness, password. The word comes from Slavic noun "rov" meaning ditch, trench, a cut made in something solid, and verb "rovati" meaning to make cuts, or from verb ris, riz meaning to cut.
Slavic calendar (Raboš) from Kiev 4th century ad, reading left to right
Raboš from Croation island of Olib reading right to left. Raboš was also used for making notes of debts, stocks. They were used like primitive memory sticks.
Calendar from Plovdiv, Bulgaria
One of the characteristics of early Slavic writing systems is that they wrote using foreign letters and "cuts and notches" as first Christian missionaries noted. They also wrote and read from both left to right and right to left.
Another Raboš calendar from Bulgaria:
Does this remind anyone of ogham?The etymology of the word ogam or ogham remains unclear and has no meaning in Gaelic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham
As I already said here:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85915234&postcount=150Ogam has clear etymology in Serbian. "Kam, Kamen" means stone in Serbian. "o" can among other things mean on, on something. "o kam" means on stone. So Ogam, Okam means on stone, writing on stones. What is interesting is that most ogam inscription represent names of people and their ancestors. Ogam stones are clearly either grave marks or tribute marks, or curse marks. In Serbian word for "read" is "čitaj" pronounced cheetay. This is a compound word composed from "čij + taj" pronounced cheeytay meaning "who(se) is this". Whose stone is this? Whose mark is this? Finding out who this is was the point of reading ogam.0 -
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