Latest poachers caught in the act?

stick shooter · 02-02-2011 11:18pm

Seems like poachers live in a world of revolving doors .In questioned and back out to do as they please .

tfox · 02-02-2011 11:24pm

I had a coilte let last year in the Slieve Blooms. On at least 4 occassions I saw other lads on the let that shouldnt be there, evidence of poaching during the night etc.

Rang the NPWS, told me to ring guards, rang guards told me ring the ranger :mad:

got on to coilte about keeping the barriers closed, fell on deaf ears !!

Heard from a chap that works for coilte and aslo stalks that they are told to shoot what they want just dont get caught !! In my experience Coilte dont care as long as the deer numbers are kept down !!

Heard rumours of lads getting 10/12 deer over one night then down to the dealer in the morning :eek:

243Xpress · 02-02-2011 11:30pm

Coillte just want your money.Highest bidder always wins.They dont give a f@@k if you shot one deer or 50 deer just as long as you pay them on time.I know from experience,

Grizzly 45 · 02-02-2011 11:49pm

clivej wrote: »

They have that covered
It is illegal to have road kill in your possession

Questionable and grey area here.
As deer are masterless animals,unless raised in a enclosure.
they dont belong to the state,and they dont belong tothe lease holder either until shot and reduced to possesion.
If you ask the council to dispose of the carcass,they get the bin men or local knacker yard to do so.This also brings in the question of lost/abandoned/surrenderd property. EG you put your bin out at night on a public road,anyone is entitled ,once it is in a public place to help themselves to your rubbish.You have given up the right to own or claim on your rubbish.So with that in mind[1] be careful what you chuck out:D and [2]if the council tell you shift the carcass to the side of the road,are they abandoning a right to ownership,if they had one in the first place??
Would be an intresting legal arguement.
Even at
It would be very hard to prove that you "found" the injured deer and were [a] taking it to a vet or lease holder or ranger it died in transit and you were taking it ot any of the three.

clivej · 02-02-2011 11:56pm

clivej wrote: »

They have that covered
It is illegal to have road kill in your possession

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Questionable and grey area here.
As deer are masterless animals,unless raised in a enclosure.
they dont belong to the state,and they dont belong tothe lease holder either until shot and reduced to possesion.
If you ask the council to dispose of the carcass,they get the bin men or local knacker yard to do so.This also brings in the question of lost/abandoned/surrenderd property. EG you put your bin out at night on a public road,anyone is entitled ,once it is in a public place to help themselves to your rubbish.You have given up the right to own or claim on your rubbish.So with that in mind[1] be careful what you chuck out:D and [2]if the council tell you shift the carcass to the side of the road,are they abandoning a right to ownership,if they had one in the first place??
Would be an intresting legal arguement.
Even at
It would be very hard to prove that you "found" the injured deer and were [a] taking it to a vet or lease holder or ranger it died in transit and you were taking it ot any of the three.

That covers all road kill including: pheasants, rabbits, and deer, etc.

meathshooter1 · 03-02-2011 12:03am

seoirse1980 wrote: »

@~~@ fella, he's an awful poacher altogether, we'll have a word"

See you have to see both sides here. I often have this conversation with the farmers and landowners about poaching and the majority of them dont care they see deer as vermin. The ones that seem to kick up about it are the coillte lease holders rightly so they pay good money and expect results,(dont always get them) thats why I dont bother with leases anymore. Also some lease holders think they own the place, 1 farmer I know was telling me he approached 3 lads one morning on his land they drove into his field in a big range rover guns and all. He walked over and asked what they where up to and was told "where here on official coillte business" big mistake. So the man went along with it playing dumb, "what official business would that be then. Listened to some bull**** story about them having all the rights on the hill. At that point the farmer had enogh and told them to get off his land that they where tresspassing. Funny thing the man now saldy passed would have let them shoot if they came and asked first. He was a lovley man when he would see you coming back from a stalk he would have the tea pot on and sambos. Spent more time talking:D than on the hill. It seems to me now that a lot of people have there own designs on deer stalking in ireland. With possiblty of coillte on the for sale market somebody is seeing €€€€€€€€€

LostCovey · 03-02-2011 1:12am

clivej wrote: »

They have that covered
It is illegal to have road kill in your possession

What legislation are you referring to clivej?

Not saying you are wrong, just surprised to hear there is such a provision.

Any ideas what laws cover this?

LostCovey

Grizzly 45 · 03-02-2011 1:48am

Indeed I'd be intrested in that myself which law covers that.

stick shooter · 03-02-2011 2:04am

I have never heard of a road side law like that:D

clivej · 03-02-2011 10:17am

LostCovey wrote: »

What legislation are you referring to clivej?

Not saying you are wrong, just surprised to hear there is such a provision.

Any ideas what laws cover this?

LostCovey

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Indeed I'd be intrested in that myself which law covers that.

stick shooter wrote: »

I have never heard of a road side law like that:D

I read it here on this forum, so someone will tell to legalities of it.

Jonty · 03-02-2011 12:26pm

meathshooter1 wrote: »

See you have to see both sides here. I often have this conversation with the farmers and landowners about poaching and the majority of them dont care they see deer as vermin. The ones that seem to kick up about it are the coillte lease holders rightly so they pay good money and expect results,(dont always get them) thats why I dont bother with leases anymore. Also some lease holders think they own the place, 1 farmer I know was telling me he approached 3 lads one morning on his land they drove into his field in a big range rover guns and all. He walked over and asked what they where up to and was told "where here on official coillte business" big mistake. So the man went along with it playing dumb, "what official business would that be then. Listened to some bull**** story about them having all the rights on the hill. At that point the farmer had enogh and told them to get off his land that they where tresspassing. Funny thing the man now saldy passed would have let them shoot if they came and asked first. He was a lovley man when he would see you coming back from a stalk he would have the tea pot on and sambos. Spent more time talking:D than on the hill. It seems to me now that a lot of people have there own designs on deer stalking in ireland. With possiblty of coillte on the for sale market somebody is seeing €€€€€€€€€

The hospitality you mentioned reminds me of a landowner that my friend stalks for. He gets sole rights for stalking in exchange for fox control. I went with him after foxes one evening, and remember we had to be rolled out of the house there was that much food out. You'd insult the family by not having food with them. I have also encountered the bull**** from other stalkers. They do normal people no favours

Hibrion · 03-02-2011 1:16pm

The individuals who really annoy me are those who consider themselves legitimate stalkers but load up at dusk to head out with a lamp looking for deer or whatever else they can get a bullet into.

These trigger happy morons are destroying populations of all sorts. In my stalking area I have had no luck on the couple of outings I've had this year in part due to the huge (and I'm not exaggerating) numbers of poachers in the area. There hasn't been a time when I've been on the way back that I havn't seen at least one jeep heading out to poach.

If only we had more money to hire extra rangers.

Grizzly 45 · 03-02-2011 1:34pm

Extra money...Hmmmm.
The way some US LE agencies suppliment their budget is that they are entitled to sell off at auction seized property or property gained from the proceeds of crime.Thats why somtimes you see in some gun mags from over there these "make a fortune from DEA auctions" ads.Usually with a mad looking jeep to sex it up .

If it was done on a smal scale IE NPWS only.It would [1] raise abit of cash and [2] have a serious psyOP on anyone contemplating doing a spot of poaching.As there is somthing ingrained in our national psyche of having our property publically auctioned off.

Truth be told,I think there are enough NPWS personnel there,just that they are stuck inside doing paperwork,rather than being outside doing patrols.They even admit this themselves.:(

bazza888 · 03-02-2011 1:48pm

i wouldnt fancy being a ranger going out unarmed more than likely alone to try catch poachers who are carrying rifles etc and dont want to be caught!

4gun · 03-02-2011 2:04pm

bazza888 wrote: »

i wouldnt fancy being a ranger going out unarmed more than likely alone to try catch poachers who are carrying rifles etc and dont want to be caught!

in all fairness that scenario carries a much much greater penalty that one for poaching..remember even pointing a friearm at some one is a serious offence in ireland..In relative terms a poaching is a misdemeanor

bazza888 · 03-02-2011 2:09pm

i understand that but id think to be affective you would need a few rangers together not one alone,you would need lots of rangers to police just wicklow!

4gun · 03-02-2011 2:21pm

funding would be an issue,Npaw would have to start charging for licence

meathshooter1 · 03-02-2011 2:32pm

easy to put a stop to. all game dealers are required by law to keep records. if so and so has a high number of deer shot with out good reason you wont have to look far, start with the demand not the supply. a lot of people complaining about numbers down,there are plenty about granted more of an effort to get,they have got clever and have learned to adapt to the added strain and disturbance caused by poachers lamping.makes stalking more challenging In my view I get my pleasure from the stalk being able to get in as close a possible to the animals and the perfect humane shot,then the work begins.to many people interested in How Many they shoot, for me I dont care if I get any it still puts a

on my face even if dont get any

clivej · 03-02-2011 3:51pm

It could be that the game dealers are as guilty as any. If you are not entered into the record book, as it would seem to be happening, then that carcuss has no traceability of coming into the dearlers. Therefore that dealer can trade it on and it's all profit to him.

A poachers paradise, no comeback, no records kept, the black economy at it's best.

meathshooter1 · 03-02-2011 4:06pm

clivej wrote: »

It could be that the game dealers are as guilty as any. If you are not entered into the record book, as it would seem to be happening, then that carcuss has no traceability of coming into the dearlers. Therefore that dealer can trade it on and it's all profit to him.

A poachers paradise, no comeback, no records kept, the black economy at it's best.

start at demand(game dealer)and that will curb supply.But is it as bad as people are making out.personally I think its getting a bit blown out of proportion.a game dealers can be inspected any time by law and all meats must be accounted for.

rugerman · 03-02-2011 8:06pm

what would any of the slaughter factorys say like dawn meats say if farmer joe turned up with trailer of bullocks for the food chain without tags in there ears hed be in court the following week and a massive fine if its going into food chain it must be traced down to the wood it was shot in Hit the people who are taking in the deer and hit them hard some lads are desparate for money and thats the handiest way to make it.Car trailer and a 22magnum.If only we all could pull together and tell. coillte next year to shove their woods up there hole.

arrowloopboy · 03-02-2011 8:39pm

I know at least 1 "gentleman" that is going to get a rest for his rifle shortly;)

meathshooter1 · 03-02-2011 8:49pm

[QUOTE=If only we all could pull together and tell. coillte next year to shove their woods up there hole.[/QUOTE]

put it this way we are paying them to do work for them,which in turn is saving them a ball of money and also raking in loads for them,and nice money aswell.is it value for money?on our behalve

Grizzly 45 · 03-02-2011 9:27pm

Plenty of exellent suggestions there lads.Now isnt it time that these were passed onto the two respective organisations that are supposedly looking after deer hunting intrests,and kick it back up the chain to Coilte and NPWS???:rolleyes:
Or will this just be another national gobbing off session by us all and nothing becomes of it?

brianfrancis45 · 04-02-2011 12:29am

jap gt wrote: »

+1 never tasted it

Jap, that's a shame - you should try it. Don't stalk myself but have a friend who does nothing else and he has a great set up with a designated temperature controlled room for preperation/hanging, TB testing- the whole nine yards. He gave me quite a bit over the season including very recently a rack of chops from a young Sika - absolutely mouth watering tender meat.

I've demolished all the chops by now:D (amazingly even the wife who is not a fan of game in general was raving about it ) but I have some meat left in the freezer from the same animal - not a whole lot but enough to do you for a nice stew . You are welcome to it if you would like to try it .

I should be heading from the City down to Mallow over the coming weekend and expecting to be passing through Macroom on the way to Kerry sometime next week so if you are any where along either route maybe I could drop it off to you on me way.

jap gt · 04-02-2011 12:33am

brianfrancis45 wrote: »

Jap, that's a shame - you should try it. Don't stalk myself but have a friend who does nothing else and he has a great set up with a designated temperature controlled room for preperation/hanging, TB testing- the whole nine yards. He gave me quite a bit over the season including very recently a rack of chops from a young Sika - absolutely mouth watering tender meat.

I've demolished all the chops by now:D (amazingly even the wife who is not a fan of game in general was raving about it ) but I have some meat left in the freezer from the same animal - not a whole lot but enough to do you for a nice stew . You are welcome to it if you would like to try it .

I should be heading from the City down to Mallow over the coming weekend and expecting to be passing through Macroom on the way to Kerry sometime next week so if you are any where along either route maybe I could drop it off to you on me way.

sound for the offer, but with work sunday is my only day off :rolleyes:
and have a day planned hunting fox cover on sunday

ah im sure i will get a taste at some stage, really sound to offer though

brianfrancis45 · 04-02-2011 12:57am

No prob Jap.

garv123 · 04-02-2011 1:09am

with all the stalks ive been on i myself aint a fan of the meat

if in the future i was to get a fox/deer caliber rifle it would only be used on deer is someone asked me for it.

its way too rich for my liking.

Tackleberrywho · 04-02-2011 4:09am

garv123 wrote: »

with all the stalks ive been on i myself aint a fan of the meat
if in the future i was to get a fox/deer caliber rifle it would only be used on deer is someone asked me for it.

its way too rich for my liking.

I find many say, Oh I don't like the taste of "DEERS"

The problem with that is many are given an old stag or Doe to CHEW on.

I have a small bit of a pricket left in the freezer that would put Lazy aged Rump steak to shame

Cut it with a butter knife in one stroke

hunterpajero · 04-02-2011 5:15pm

lads i cant see how these poachers are making money with the price of diesel and bullets,surely they must be a couple of lads in it and wouldnt they have to split the money between them as well,do deer not get lamp shy if there able to take 10 or so a night?

It wasn't me! · 04-02-2011 5:25pm

I dunno what you're paying for ammo and diesel, but at €1.80/kg and averaging perhaps 25kg per animal, it's got to be making a fortune for some people.

garv123 · 04-02-2011 6:45pm

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I find many say, Oh I don't like the taste of "DEERS"

The problem with that is many are given an old stag or Doe to CHEW on.

I have a small bit of a pricket left in the freezer that would put Lazy aged Rump steak to shame

Cut it with a butter knife in one stroke

i had it off a fella that you couldnt even call a pricket yet. but yeah i do get where your coming from when people get landed with a dirty old piece.
i will be tasting it again in the future from different parts of the animal so im not ruling out the possibility of me taking a liking to it yet.

Grizzly 45 · 04-02-2011 11:19pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

I dunno what you're paying for ammo and diesel, but at €1.80/kg and averaging perhaps 25kg per animal, it's got to be making a fortune for some people.

81 Euros???

Is that the gamedealer price or actual shop/resturant purchase price??

DR6.5 · 04-02-2011 11:31pm

Grizzly its 1.8 euro a kilo in the jacket for animals over 30kgs head or neck shot 1.7euro for animals between 20-30 kgs.

so for your average sika hind which is around 25kgs youll get approx 20 kgs from the game dealer which is approx 35 euro a hind.

For stags youd be averaging around 40 kgs so roughly 50 to 60 euro a sika stag.

dr6.5

Tackleberrywho · 05-02-2011 12:04am

DR6.5 wrote: »

Grizzly its 1.8 euro a kilo in the jacket for animals over 30kgs head or neck shot 1.7euro for animals between 20-30 kgs.

so for your average sika hind which is around 25kgs youll get approx 20 kgs from the game dealer which is approx 35 euro a hind.

For stags youd be averaging around 40 kgs so roughly 50 to 60 euro a sika stag.

dr6.5

Tank of Diesel €80-100
Ammo €30-50

€45 average a deer, if a poacher shot more than 3 a week all utilities were paid for and the rest was profit.

If they were to exclusively night shoot and evade detection that would be feasible for someone out of work and in need of cash

Traumadoc · 05-02-2011 2:58am

hunterpajero wrote: »

lads i cant see how these poachers are making money with the price of diesel and bullets,surely they must be a couple of lads in it and wouldnt they have to split the money between them as well,do deer not get lamp shy if there able to take 10 or so a night?

31 deer in the trailer, 25kg each 1.80 euro a kg , ...........1395 euro .

doyle61 · 05-02-2011 10:09am

hunterpajero wrote: »

lads i cant see how these poachers are making money with the price of diesel and bullets,surely they must be a couple of lads in it and wouldnt they have to split the money between them as well,do deer not get lamp shy if there able to take 10 or so a night?

when these lads are willing to take the chance on poaching deer ild say their well capable of putting the aggri deisel into the car aswell.......big cost reduced there

4gun · 05-02-2011 10:39am

doyle61 wrote: »

when these lads are willing to take the chance on poaching deer ild say their well capable of putting the aggri deisel into the car aswell.......big cost reduced there

maybe they've no tax or insurance aswell:rolleyes:

jingojonson · 05-02-2011 12:30pm

Most of you seem to be annoyed with poaching as opposed to to legitimate hunting yet if I'm reading correctly, many of you seem to have no problem taking upwards of 10+ deer in a season.

If numbers are down maybe its time for a little self control among legitimate hunters to let numbers recover?

In rivers where salmon are managed well its maximum 12 tags per member and a deer is a little bigger!

Seems to me theres some greedy hunters out there!

It wasn't me! · 05-02-2011 12:44pm

jingojonson wrote: »

Most of you seem to be annoyed with poaching as opposed to to legitimate hunting yet if I'm reading correctly, many of you seem to have no problem taking upwards of 10+ deer in a season.

If numbers are down maybe its time for a little self control among legitimate hunters to let numbers recover?

In rivers where salmon are managed well its maximum 12 tags per member and a deer is a little bigger!

Seems to me theres some greedy hunters out there!

Your first responsibility is as a deer manager. That means you must manage the herd to an appropriate number, sustainable for the environment and the available resources in order to produce the best quality deer. Now, that may mean shooting more than you personally will use, but that's your first responsibility. Not saying there aren't greedy hunters out there, but ten or so deer a year would certainly not be an effective cull in a lot of places.

jingojonson · 05-02-2011 12:48pm

Its the combined effect ie ten legitimate hunters taking 10 deer each is 100
etc...

It wasn't me! · 05-02-2011 12:50pm

jingojonson wrote: »

Its the combined effect ie ten legitimate hunters taking 10 deer each is 100
etc...

Yeah, and I know of places where there are two and three hundred deer being taken a year from one letting and the numbers aren't affected year to year. It's about cooperating to enact an effective cull plan between you and whoever else is shooting your ground.

meathshooter1 · 05-02-2011 1:02pm

Traumadoc wrote: »

31 deer in the trailer, 25kg each 1.80 euro a kg , ...........1395 euro .

is it not illegal for a game dealer to accept 31 deer piled on top of each other, for reasons of cross contamination,I have never been in a game dealers but Ive done the haccp food hygine course for my own business.and the law is quite clear on this

bunny shooter · 05-02-2011 1:45pm

4gun wrote: »

maybe they've no tax or insurance aswell:rolleyes:

Or DOE/NCT :eek:

djflawless · 05-02-2011 7:22pm

bazza888 wrote: »

yeah tack come to think of it the animal carcass disposal people were about the other day he had a small lorry with a tipper it was pretty full with 3cows and a pony in it!he needed a winch to get the pony in as it had go on top of the cows,31 deer would be a fair stack!

prob my old man drivin that bazza haha.8 cows is the most we got in that lorry.anything more and its serious overloading

bazza888 · 05-02-2011 8:03pm

it was getting pretty tight with the 3 of them in it,8 cows would be some load

djflawless · 05-02-2011 8:54pm

twas some job.twas even worse in the snow and ice :-S

jellybaby21 · 05-02-2011 9:33pm

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yeah, and I know of places where there are two and three hundred deer being taken a year from one letting and the numbers aren't affected year to year. It's about cooperating to enact an effective cull plan between you and whoever else is shooting your ground.

I'm sorry but I find it hard to believe you can take that many deer year in year out from one place and not affect the numbers.But maybe I'm wrong.

Mauser 308 · 06-02-2011 12:51am

GixxerThou wrote: »

They will not get licences again, I hear neither of them had licences anyway, lost them already.

How were they shooting the deer then? was it just their deer hunting licence they lost not the firearms licence? Surley as the new firearms licences only came out this year they could not have a deer calibre without a deer permit. Maybe they were using something like a 223 or a similar. Surley when you are found guilty of an offence serious enough to loose your deer licence you should loose all firearms licences.

Mauser 308 · 06-02-2011 1:18am

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yeah, and I know of places where there are two and three hundred deer being taken a year from one letting and the numbers aren't affected year to year. It's about cooperating to enact an effective cull plan between you and whoever else is shooting your ground.

I imagine lettings or anywhere else that that can sustain that sort of shooting are few and far between. Being realistic is there any let that has that many deer shot legaly?

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Latest poachers caught in the act?

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