35 properties to be leased in Galway city for asylum seekers

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Ive given link to evidence that there is a net economic benefit to Asylum Seekers in the country. We are going in circles here. Post up some papers that refutes this and we can discuss them.

Okay. Let's consider this for a moment.

One third of migrants received were young men without the skills to work beyond low end jobs (per the link I provided before). Another one third of entries are children. So, the reminder being women (of whom some may be skilled, but considering the variety of countries involved, a fair number won't be educated to third level standard), or a mixed group of ages, possibly with prior education, although it's dubious whether that education is comparable with European standards.

Children will require as much as 18 years before they become able to work, during which time they're a definite cost. The young males who arrived without education, will need to be employed in low skilled jobs, or educated up to a level where they are employable the same as Irish people. Such upskilling will require years of investment/support to ensure that language acquisition and education can be imparted. Same for the remainder groups of migrants who will need to study to not be on the lower end of job applications.

Now. Low skilled jobs are in decline. Even before covid, such positions were in decline for all manner of reasons, and we already have a native population capable of meeting the job market needs. In fact, if you look at the jobs available on a country wide scale, such jobs available are quite low.

"On top of that, recent research published by the NERI has demonstrated that both part-time and temporary employment have become more precarious on average; shorter contracts, less hours and more underemployment (part-time workers who would like a full-time job but can’t find one or would like more hours).

And what is the effect on low income workers in Ireland?

"At the same time, the share of Irish people unable to afford the basics actually grew by 2.7 percentage points to 17.8 percent (see NERI’s contribution to a recent episode of Reboot Republic on the topic).

In absolute terms, that constitutes an increase of 143,000 people (approximately equal to the entire population of County Wicklow) from 733,000 in 2018 to 876,000 a year later (in and around the population of Cavan, Donegal, Leitrim, Monaghan, Sligo, Mayo, Roscommon and Galway). The growth rate in deprivation was higher in 2019 than that recorded between 2010 and 2011 (1.9 pp’s) and 2011 and 2012 (2.5 pp’s) when the Irish economy was in freefall. The majority of the growth actually came from individuals suffering from three or more types of deprivation or ‘severe deprivation’, which increased from 9.9 to 12.0 percent in 2019, a very worrying development."

So, you would have us believe that refugees, asylum seekers, etc are net contributors to the economy, when it's pretty clear that they're not. Unless you're focusing on those who are educated/skilled before arriving, or are talking about an economy with a greater demand for low skilled workers (such as Germany). Ireland doesn't need more people to fill low skilled positions, because we already have a native population which meets the demand, and more.

And, based on pure logic, if we are looking at migrants who need to upskill, be educated, and learn English, it will be years... before they're up to a standard to do more than low end positions. The EU/Ireland places regulatory requirements for educational minimums on many jobs.. along with the demands of the employers themselves.

For refugees from third world nations, their educational backgrounds will likely be dismissed as being inferior because there is so much corruption and lack of investment in third level institutions. So, they'll need to study/pass a European degree, or at the very least, pass the leaving certificate... which will still limit their ability to be gainfully employed.

And lastly, Ireland is entering a recession. Covid has messed up so many systems of employment, and will have long reaching consequences on the employment market and economies throughout Europe. Bringing in refugees is not going to be a net gain... because it makes no sense to claim that, since we have enough problems already with the native population.

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Klaz, help me out here. From the article:

"the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” is more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues. "

If you still cannot see where you are wrong in your statement above, then it is difficult to have an honest debate here. You are deliberately misrepresenting the article that I linked to.

Your article is not an absolute. You seem to believe because you provided one article that states a net benefit, that there can be no counter to it.

I have provided a variety of reasons to show why that logic is flawed. Simply referring to that one article isn't enough. Provide a variety of links as evidence that you're correct.. and counter what I said.

You talk about an honest debate. This is what a debate is. Unless you're simply expecting everyone to accept your article without any objections? Look at the logic of my post, and what I linked to. If you are seeking honest debate, you'll see what I said is relevant...

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

No, I never believed that the article was an absolute or that there was no counter to it. I stated that you misrepresented it when you said that it did not "take into account the cost to take in, support, educate refugees". This is wrong. It did take "the additional public expenditures, which is usually referred to as the “refugee burden,” into its modelling when it came to the conclusion that it is "more than outweighed by the increase in tax revenues".

Do you understand the difference?

I give up. You just don't want to deal with opposing views

DelaneyIn wrote: »

If I allow two homeless lads to come live with me, the household gdp will rise but my net worth and standard of living will drop drastically.

If you think turning Ireland into a refugee camp would be an economic boom then I don’t know what to tell you.

It's the expectation that migrants will get work. Sure, they might (might) want to work, but who is to say that there will be jobs there for them? (even without the recession, jobs for low skilled workers are declining in availability)

The sad fact of Asylum seekers and refugees is that they typically come from countries which have a much lower quality of education, and even access to that education is fraught with difficulties. And so, the majority of refugees arrive with basic education, and their skillset is not designed for a first world nation. It's logical that they wouldn't be.

We already have a native population and existing migrant population who fill up the demand for low wage positions. There isn't a huge demand for these kind of workers in Ireland... and since Ireland is quite an expensive country to live in, the standard of living they can expect to have, without welfare supplements, would be very low. So... they would need financial aid from the State to survive, but NGO's/Activists would demand that these arrivals have a comparable standard of living as Irish people. Not the poor Irish people. Of course not, but the same as middle class Irish who have invested time/money into getting the education and experience needed to support their lifestyles.

Refugees are a loss because to provide that level of living would cost the State money. And... that's without even considering the costs in educating either Adults or Children to be of a comparable standard.

The argument that migrants are a net benefit just doesn't make sense, and it makes me think that such articles are driving an agenda... similar to the raft of articles that were common a decade ago when most of Europe was hellbent on following Germany on importing cheap labor. That didn't work out well for Germany.. and it hasn't worked out well anywhere else either. Except by encouraging the growth of an underclass of workers who need to be supported by the State but still work the crap jobs...

gerogerigegege wrote: »

I know people that work on new council houses close to me. more than half are for foreign nationals, I assume that got Irish citizenship. I see it myself everyday.
the government don't care about native Irish people.

Well, considering the low level of deportations actually done, as opposed to what should have... it's quite possible that they haven't been given citizenship, and are just outside the influence of DP. Who knows what's really going on?

As for the government, nah, I don't buy it. They do care about Irish people, but they're stuck dealing with the open Pandora's box that previous governments opened through naive or short sighted attempts to virtue signal. We're dealing with the decisions of a wide range of Irish politicians/governments.

I suspect they just don't know how to close the box without being raped by the activists, NGOs, the EU and the UN. It's easy to say "limit" immigration, but there are heaps of organisations out there whose sole purpose is to increase immigration.. and some of them are quite influential. It's just not easy unless we're willing to behave the same as Poland, but we're more vulnerable than Poland was to pressure from many directions.