Engagement Ring

Teach30 · 11-11-2020 12:11am

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

If personal value means nothing to you, does that mean you only see a partner for their financial value, a personal banking atm?

And on the kids thing, if you were not able to have kids should your partner value you less as you not able to bear offspring and be entitled to his ring back in that case as this seems to be all transaction based from your perspective ?

It’s the age old adage love or money, I know which I require in larger amounts!
I have friends of a similar mindset, and the ring was very important part of the deal. Also on not having children, I’d consider keeping the home a part of that deal also. I can’t see my partner cooking/cleaning etc. That’s just us mind, I know most here are of a totally different mindset which is fine by me. Each to their own.

Anyways not dragging this thread OT anymore. Just wanted to point out that for many women the value of the ring is an important part of the engagement. I’ve had similar discussions with friends and work colleagues, some of whom have travelled abroad for a rock.

rizzee · 11-11-2020 12:23am

I'm probably against the majority here and not going for a token ring.

I'm going to "borrow" one of her rings while she is away for sizing, and then pick one that I think she would like. Be it a couple of hundred to a couple of K, it doesn't matter. I know she would like it because I chose it for her.. Just my opinion.

Best of luck!

gypsy79 · 11-11-2020 12:30am

Luca G wrote: »

I think a token ring is the way to go as I am looking at spending around 5k but I think it would be good idea if she goes and looks at rings aswell as I would be stuck with a 5k ring then. As long as she happy I'm happy.

Only thing putting me off a token ring is they wouldn't put a surprise on your face when you propose compared to a big shiny diamond .

I think its definitely worth insurance what would th eff insurance be on a 5k ring do you get it from the same place you buy the ring ?

PM me if you wish

I got my wifes built. He gave her a replica to wear for a few week to make sure of size etc

He also asked me for budget and he came in well under too. Very good experience

Brandon75 · 11-11-2020 2:39am

Is it worth getting something for around 1k if you can and use that to propose instead of a token ring.

Then she can pick one after of what she likes.
this way you can still have a better ring then a token one.
Instead of paying a couple of grand for one you hope she will like.

Not like you can walk back in and hand the ring back to them after spending 5k for it .

Brandon75 · 11-11-2020 2:45am

Any recommendations of which jewellers to look at
Trying to narrow it down as there is alot of them.

Mellor · 11-11-2020 2:58am

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

That line is such a crock of bull its unreal, not every woman cares about the cost value of a ring. To most women the personal value of what the ring represents has more meaning.

While its wronf to day everyone cares about the value or believes there is a set expectation on the piece.
It's equally wrong to suggest nobody cares. The fact is some people very much care and would think of less than you are supposed to pay as an insult.

Similar to the token ring idea. Some people would prefer it, others would hate the "lazy" option. It all comes down to knowing your partner and people on a forum can't really answer for you.

Deleted User wrote: »

Luckily, he was allowed to return it and they ended up getting a ring made that his girlfriend designed herself.

"Designed your own ring" is another con that the industry pulls.
Nobody picks a watch face and a strap says they designed a watch.

Teach30 wrote: »

It’s the age old adage love or money, I know which I require in larger amounts!
I have friends of a similar mindset, and the ring was very important part of the deal. Also on not having children, I’d consider keeping the home a part of that deal also. I can’t see my partner cooking/cleaning etc. That’s just us mind, I know most here are of a totally different mindset which is fine by me. Each to their own.

Sounds like you are expecting to be paid a wages for services.
If it makes you happy, no harm I guess. But there's a real risk of failing to meet the job description with that approach.

11-11-2020 3:31am

Mellor wrote: »

"Designed your own ring" is another con that the industry pulls.
Nobody picks a watch face and a strap says they designed a watch.
.

Well, you're wrong in this case, as the lady in question did design her ring completely from scratch, it was very unusual and set with sapphires in a rub over setting. It didn't look at all like your typical engagement ring, but it was what she wanted.

There are still a few jewellers around who make custom pieces, a friend of mine used to do it until he retired last year. He made a lot of rings to the customer's design, both engagement and wedding bands, all in his own shop. .

Someone mentioned engagement gifts for men above - a formal dress watch is a typical engagement gift for a man, and they can run dear enough.

Mellor · 11-11-2020 4:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, you're wrong in this case, as the lady in question did design her ring completely from scratch, it was very unusual and set with sapphires in a rub over setting.

Going in and picking the stone/setting/band exactly how you want, no matter how unusual still isn't designing your own ring. There are website that will do the same with a few drop down boxes.
Same with people who design their own dress, or design their own home via a plan book or options wizard aren't suddenly dress designers or architects.

I'm well aware that that some jewellers will still do custom jewellery. In that case, they are a highly specialist craftsperson, designing a ring for a clients brief/spec - reducing their skills to manufacture is a bit dismissive.

gypsy79 · 11-11-2020 12:31pm

Brandon75 wrote: »

Any recommendations of which jewellers to look at
Trying to narrow it down as there is alot of them.

Tony o Connor in Celtic jewelleryrepair.ie built my wife’s

Couldn’t believe how good to experience was. My wife was mesmerised and price was outstandibf

gypsy79 · 11-11-2020 12:34pm

gypsy79 wrote: »

Tony o Connor in Celtic jewelleryrepair.ie built my wife’s

Couldn’t believe how good to experience was. My wife was mesmerised and price was outstandibf

We went in with ideas from shops. He builds a prototype for you. If happy he goes and sources the stones and builds

The wedding ring was then integrated into the engagement ring design

11-11-2020 12:37pm

Mellor wrote: »

Going in and picking the stone/setting/band exactly how you want, no matter how unusual still isn't designing your own ring. There are website that will do the same with a few drop down boxes.
Same with people who design their own dress, or design their own home via a plan book or options wizard aren't suddenly dress designers or architects.

I'm well aware that that some jewellers will still do custom jewellery. In that case, they are a highly specialist craftsperson, designing a ring for a clients brief/spec - reducing their skills to manufacture is a bit dismissive.

Why are you so bothered by this? I don't know why you have such a bee in your bonnet about this, but that is not what happened. You weren't there!

She drew the ring she wanted, then brought her drawings to a custom jeweller and asked them to make it to her design. Which they did. So, in my view, that is "designing your own ring". This was also 20 years ago, so no "drop down boxes" on jeweller websites either. Lord almighty!

Uncle Pierre · 11-11-2020 5:22pm

I dunno. I "designed" a personalised gift last week, for the young lad to give my wife for Christmas. I got him to help me pick a certain item from a website, choose a few photos to upload and which way to put them, and what text we wanted to appear on it.

I wouldn't claim either of us is a designer by profession as a result of doing that, but I think it's fair enough to say that we "designed" that particular gift.

Seems a bit of a hoo-hah over very little here, really.......

Faith · 11-11-2020 6:11pm

Mod note: Alright, let's move on from the "designed/not designed" debate as it's not relevant to the topic of the OP.

Millem · 12-11-2020 7:20am

gypsy79 wrote: »

Tony o Connor in Celtic jewelleryrepair.ie built my wife’s

Couldn’t believe how good to experience was. My wife was mesmerised and price was outstandibf

We got our wedding rings made there too. Really happy with them. We found that they were more expensive than a high street jewellers but heavier rings.

qwerty13 · 12-11-2020 7:52am

Teach30 wrote: »

It’s the age old adage love or money, I know which I require in larger amounts!
I have friends of a similar mindset, and the ring was very important part of the deal. Also on not having children, I’d consider keeping the home a part of that deal also. I can’t see my partner cooking/cleaning etc. That’s just us mind, I know most here are of a totally different mindset which is fine by me. Each to their own.

Anyways not dragging this thread OT anymore. Just wanted to point out that for many women the value of the ring is an important part of the engagement. I’ve had similar discussions with friends and work colleagues, some of whom have travelled abroad for a rock.

But - as far as I know - you can pay x amount for a ring, and its resale value is way reduced straight away. So what the point of a high value ring, other than for show? If it’s affordable in the relationship then fair enough, but I can’t understand wanting or needing a partner to feel that they ‘should’ go OTT and think that a high value ring at time of purchase is the way to go. I honestly don’t get how an expensive ring is important or warranted or even a good idea.

I’d be going for love rather than money. Obviously everyone has some deal-breakers in terms of similarity of earnings / views on money / expectations, but I think it’s not a good idea to advise the OP that he has to spend a huge amount of money on an engagement ring.

antiskeptic · 12-11-2020 10:03am

Teach30 wrote: »

If I was presented with a less expensive option I’d have taken it back. No point pretending to like it an engagement shouldn’t be based on a lie because you were too afraid to tell it straight. If your getting engaged you’d surely know when the other person is into anyways. The “personal value” as someone else described it, wouldn’t come into it for me.

I'm curious. If you know diamonds are effectively worthless (or that you could only get 40% of the money paid for it if you tried to sell it the day after buying it) why would you attach value to it?

Like, if you know 'diamonds are forever' is a marketing trick - albeit well established, why would you nevertheless sign up?

I could understand it if a person was unaware. But if made aware how is it possible to carry on regardless?

Is the power of marketing that strong?

Whatabout if the person invested a large sum in something which had actual value instead? Must it be a diamond ring?

gypsy79 · 12-11-2020 2:39pm

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm curious. If you know diamonds are effectively worthless (or that you could only get 40% of the money paid for it if you tried to sell it the day after buying it) why would you attach value to it?

That is the mark up you are paying to the seller. I dont have a clue what is market normal mark up. But you are implying 150% mark up

I know I paid a lot less than that

Teach30 · 12-11-2020 6:39pm

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm curious. If you know diamonds are effectively worthless (or that you could only get 40% of the money paid for it if you tried to sell it the day after buying it) why would you attach value to it?

Like, if you know 'diamonds are forever' is a marketing trick - albeit well established, why would you nevertheless sign up?

I could understand it if a person was unaware. But if made aware how is it possible to carry on regardless?

Is the power of marketing that strong?

Whatabout if the person invested a large sum in something which had actual value instead? Must it be a diamond ring?

I’ve never heard that that diamonds devalue over time. My ring wasn’t new and we still paid a fair amount so if it has devalued over time I’d love to know what it was worth originally.

For me it’s not power of marketing it’s knowing that he was willing to fork out that much for me. Sure we could have spent it on other things, but we didn’t need the money for anything else.

Interesting question, I’m not sure what else of value could be given instead?

Brandon75 · 12-11-2020 7:56pm

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm curious. If you know diamonds are effectively worthless (or that you could only get 40% of the money paid for it if you tried to sell it the day after buying it) why would you attach value to it?

Like, if you know 'diamonds are forever' is a marketing trick - albeit well established, why would you nevertheless sign up?

I could understand it if a person was unaware. But if made aware how is it possible to carry on regardless?

Is the power of marketing that strong?

Whatabout if the person invested a large sum in something which had actual value instead? Must it be a diamond ring?

If there worthless why do most people get diamonds on engagement rings compared to something else. Cant see why someone would sell there engagement ring anyway. Like everything else when you buy it then sell it you will make a loss.

saabsaab · 12-11-2020 7:57pm

Spend as little as possible IMO. Forgotten anyway in a year or two.

Faith · 12-11-2020 8:42pm

In the whole universe, wood is more rare than diamonds, so if it’s about value and rarity, perhaps you’d be better off getting an engagement bookcase than a diamond ring.

woodchuck · 12-11-2020 9:20pm

A lot of people suggest a token ring and that's a good idea, but you don't have to propose with a ring at all! My OH used an engagement puffin...

After our first date, he went on holidays to Iceland with his family. When he came back, he gave me a little puffin figurine he bought there. What I didn't realise at the time, was that he had also bought a second little puffin. The first date went so well, he thought he'd keep the second puffin in case things continued to go well and he could give it to me at another point down the line. To reunite them, because puffins mate for life

He also gave me a necklace so that I'd have a piece of jewellery to associate with getting engaged and we picked out a ring together another day. I love my ring, but it's all about the puffins really

If the receiver of the ring is that concerned about getting a large expensive rock, I have to wonder about their motives tbh...

Vestiapx · 12-11-2020 9:23pm

as_mo_bhosca wrote: »

I think it depends on what you can afford. Do not listen to rubbish about 2/3 months salary. This is just a marketing campaign from De Beers diamonds and frankly would be a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a ring. My gf drives a car currently worth about 5k, if I spent 10-15k on a ring, I think she'd prefer a newer car!
ETA: diamond industry/fecking eejits say I should spend 10-15k on a ring. I just spent a little over 1800 on a half carat diamond set in an 18 carat gold solitaire setting. IMHO opinion, and hers more importantly, it's all about the sparkle of the diamond!

You earn 5 grand a month and paid 1,800 for your financees ring ?
Genuinely interested u

as_mo_bhosca · 12-11-2020 9:28pm

Vestiapx wrote: »

You earn 5 grand a month and paid 1,800 for your financees ring ?
Genuinely interested u

The last line? Want to try that again?

Brandon75 · 13-11-2020 6:40pm

Is it worth getting something for around 1k if you can and use that to propose instead of a token ring.

Then she can pick one after of what she likes.
this way you can still have a better ring then a token one.
Instead of paying a couple of grand for one you hope she will like.

Not like you can walk back in and hand the ring back to them after spending 5k for it .

jlm29 · 13-11-2020 7:57pm

Brandon75 wrote: »

Is it worth getting something for around 1k if you can and use that to propose instead of a token ring.

Then she can pick one after of what she likes.
this way you can still have a better ring then a token one.
Instead of paying a couple of grand for one you hope she will like.

Not like you can walk back in and hand the ring back to them after spending 5k for it .

A thousand euro, for a token? A token is 20 quid from the Argos book. Not a thousand euro.

Brandon75 · 13-11-2020 9:59pm

jlm29 wrote: »

A thousand euro, for a token? A token is 20 quid from the Argos book. Not a thousand euro.

I said a ring for 1k instead of getting a token ring as it will look better then she can pick her own ring out.

Rather then pay full wack of 4 or 5k and not been able to return it incase she doesnt like it or if doesnt fit properly.

antiskeptic · 13-11-2020 10:08pm

Brandon75 wrote: »

If there worthless why do most people get diamonds on engagement rings compared to something else. Cant see why someone would sell there engagement ring anyway. Like everything else when you buy it then sell it you will make a loss.

Google 'have you ever tried to sell a diamond'. Enjoyable, informative read.

The loss in this case arises from the fact that the diamond's value is manufactured and managed by a cartel rather than being intrinsic and defined by the open market.

It doesn't depreciate in time like say a car - dropping bit by bit as you rack up the miles. Rather, it drops like a stone (!) in value the moment you buy it, going down to the wholesale price the jeweller can buy it for. That wholesale price too is manufactured and managed by the same cartel.

You might lose a few grand on a 40K car if you took it off the forecourt and went to sell it the next day. There ain't anything I can think of that is as unsellable as a diamond re: the next day loss incurred.

UnBridled · 13-11-2020 10:33pm

I don't think it's fair to look down on what a person values. Personally I don't equate expense with love but we all have different needs and wants. Let people do their thing.

saabsaab · 13-11-2020 10:35pm

Buy an expensive item that will lose half its cost immediately, is made from from one of the most common elements on earth and is no use to anyone? Amazing they get away with it.

jlm29 · 14-11-2020 12:20am

Brandon75 wrote: »

I said a ring for 1k instead of getting a token ring as it will look better then she can pick her own ring out.

Rather then pay full wack of 4 or 5k and not been able to return it incase she doesnt like it or if doesnt fit properly.

So a ring for 1k, and then bring her to pick another one?

Mellor · 14-11-2020 12:24am

antiskeptic wrote: »

It doesn't depreciate in time like say a car - dropping bit by bit as you rack up the miles. Rather, it drops like a stone (!) in value the moment you buy it, going down to the wholesale price the jeweller can buy it for. That wholesale price too is manufactured and managed by the same cartel.

Some would argue that the wholesale price is the real. All the rest is mark up and profit for everyone that handled it. That’s more a product of what jewellers an collectively get. They don’t benefit as much by entertaining a secondary market.

Mellor · 14-11-2020 12:29am

saabsaab wrote: »

Buy an expensive item that will lose half its cost immediately, is made from from one of the most common elements on earth and is no use to anyone? Amazing they get away with it.

Whether it retains all its value or loses it immediately is kinda of irrelevant is you plan to keep it forever.
And it’s actually one of the more rare elements. Not sure where you got the idea it’s common.

I agree that it’s a manufactured value. But your claims above are not true.

heroics · 14-11-2020 12:30am

nikpmup wrote: »

Absolutely let her pick it!! Shopping for the ring is a lovely thing to do together, once restrictions are somewhat lifted. I ended up getting something that I never would have thought I'd like, once I saw it I knew it was the ring for me. If he'd picked my ring he never would have picked it based on what he thought my preference was.

This is what I did with my wife. Proposed with a ring from Claire’s accessories

The ring she picked is nothing like what she had described or what she herself admits she thought she wanted.

qwerty13 · 14-11-2020 2:24am

I don’t think many things of your posts (teach) ring true to current women, and that is why you get pushback on the 1950s attitude re being a kept woman.

However, if it makes you and your partner happier, then off you pop. Your advice to others comes a across really badly though, as in like decades behind the times. “If you love me, you’ll sacrifice x financial amount, in order to prove it to the wider world”. Or do you actually believe that a high-cost engagement ring can be sold for a large amount of money if the marriage arrangement goes wrong?

As others have advised, there is no intrinsic value in a diamond. It’s the marketing companies that make them appear valuable. I just don’t get it. Buy a lovely ring that either one of you will wear forever - other than that, well no. It’s a money game.

Teach30 · 14-11-2020 10:52am

qwerty13 wrote: »

I don’t think many things of your posts (teach) ring true to current women, and that is why you get pushback on the 1950s attitude re being a kept woman.

However, if it makes you and your partner happier, then off you pop. Your advice to others comes a across really badly though, as in like decades behind the times. “If you love me, you’ll sacrifice x financial amount, in order to prove it to the wider world”. Or do you actually believe that a high-cost engagement ring can be sold for a large amount of money if the marriage arrangement goes wrong?

As others have advised, there is no intrinsic value in a diamond. It’s the marketing companies that make them appear valuable. I just don’t get it. Buy a lovely ring that either one of you will wear forever - other than that, well no. It’s a money game.

I’m not offering advice only my opinion. I know only too well my attitude and views are vastly different to everyone else here but there’s nothing wrong with that. People need to realise than many newly married couples don’t all conform to modern day value of say sharing tasks around the house. I know far too many men who take no part in preparing meals, cooking, cleaning etc. Outside work, physical hard labour and long hours trumps any sort of inside light jobs. Reality check for people here, it’s the norm for so many. I see this amongst my work colleagues also it’s not just me.

Also you totally misinterpreted my post on the cost, the higher value was to appease me not anyone else. Very few people will have any clue as to the cost of the ring. It’s not something women talk about, but those with an interest in fine jewellery may take more of an interest in sourcing a ring with certain characteristics.

An expensive ring will hold value if re-sold. It just depends on how one goes about selling it. Personally if things went wrong I think the resale value of the ring would be the least of my problems.

Also don’t be afraid to try an online auctions, plenty of good bargains to be found there. Antique rings can be of a better quality than new just do your research beforehand.

antiskeptic · 14-11-2020 12:00pm

Mellor wrote: »

Some would argue that the wholesale price is the real.

Not if it's a cartel setting the wholesale price. The question is whether there is a cartel or not.

antiskeptic · 14-11-2020 12:06pm

Interesting one from the horses mouth..

Gemsociety.org

"With explorations of several new sites, more diamond deposits will likely be found in the near future. De Beers still controls approximately 35-40% of the diamond rough supply. So far, the other suppliers have been content to sell at the same prices as De Beers. However, if the law of supply and demand ever catches up to the diamond market, prices will likely drop considerably. What would happen next is difficult to tell. De Beers has a large inventory of uncut diamonds and holds an excellent position for a price war."

Interestingly, they list the price of other gems like sapphire and ruby and they are more expensive than diamond, like for like metrics, oft times. Yet folk think diamond is at the top of the heap.

XxMCRxBabyxX · 14-11-2020 1:25pm

Brandon75 wrote: »

I said a ring for 1k instead of getting a token ring as it will look better then she can pick her own ring out.

Rather then pay full wack of 4 or 5k and not been able to return it incase she doesnt like it or if doesnt fit properly.

My token ring wasn't anywhere near 1k and I still love it and wear it on my right hand. I'd never expect my fiancé to spend that kind of money and still get another ring. My engagement ring wasn't even as much as 4k.

I loved shopping for a ring together. I had no idea what I wanted so how could he? We found the perfect ring together and it such was a fun day for both of us. We then had a second shopping day so I could buy him an engagement watch which was a similar price to my ring. It made no sense to me that he'd spend all that money on me and I wouldn't do the same for him.

Interestingly, on a point much earlier in the thread, my token ring is white gold and the colour has not fared as well as that in my platinum engagement ring.

HildaOgdenx · 14-11-2020 3:47pm

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

My token ring wasn't anywhere near 1k and I still love it and wear it on my right hand. I'd never expect my fiancé to spend that kind of money and still get another ring. My engagement ring wasn't even as much as 4k.

I loved shopping for a ring together. I had no idea what I wanted so how could he? We found the perfect ring together and it such was a fun day for both of us. We then had a second shopping day so I could buy him an engagement watch which was a similar price to my ring. It made no sense to me that he'd spend all that money on me and I wouldn't do the same for him.

Yes, that's exactly what a former colleague of mine did. Her now husband proposed with a token ring, and then they went engagement ring shopping together. She wore the token ring on her right hand afterwards.

It would always be precious to her because of what it represented, she said, which I thought was lovely.

Faith · 14-11-2020 5:08pm

Mod note: Enough. Posters are reminded to stay on-topic and not drag things into personal discussions. Thread bans will be issued next. I have deleted a number of recent off-topic posts.

XxMCRxBabyxX · 14-11-2020 6:29pm

HildaOgdenx wrote: »

It would always be precious to her because of what it represented, she said, which I thought was lovely.

I feel exactly the same. My token ring is quite plain with no stone so people had some comments when I first got it but I've loved it from the minute I got it because that is the ring my OH proposed with. It has memories of a really special holiday for us which obviously included getting engaged but for other reasons as well and I know that he put a lot of thought in to getting it, even choosing the change it from silver to white gold because he wanted me to be able to wear it forever. I couldn't not wear it.

eviltwin · 14-11-2020 7:17pm

The first ring my husband ever got me was a cheap Argos ring for Christmas. We were 18 so it was probably the cheapest in the shop and in that time its lost some of its stones and got all bent out of shape and generally looks terrible compared to my other rings but its the one that means the most and I will never take it off.

A token ring will always have that connection to the proposal that no other ring will ever have and for that reason alone it will be very special.

saabsaab · 14-11-2020 8:34pm

Mellor wrote: »

Whether it retains all its value or loses it immediately is kinda of irrelevant is you plan to keep it forever.
And it’s actually one of the more rare elements. Not sure where you got the idea it’s common.

I agree that it’s a manufactured value. But your claims above are not true.

Not really as the cost is too high. Carbon is a very common element and diamond is just one of its forms.

Mellor · 15-11-2020 8:29am

saabsaab wrote: »

Not really as the cost is too high. Carbon is a very common element and diamond is just one of its forms.

The manufactured cost is an entirely separate point.
You claimed carbon is a common element. I understand why you might assume that. But it isn’t true. It’s actually surprisingly rare overall. The fact diamond is only a fraction of its forms doesn’t exactly help the point.

saabsaab · 15-11-2020 1:46pm

Mellor wrote: »

The manufactured cost is an entirely separate point.
You claimed carbon is a common element. I understand why you might assume that. But it isn’t true. It’s actually surprisingly rare overall. The fact diamond is only a fraction of its forms doesn’t exactly help the point.

Carbon is in Coal, oil, living and dead creatures and in the air as CO2 not rare at all. 43,500 Billion tonnes in the Earths surfce! Not counting within the planet. Diamonds can also be man made so not at all not rare either.

Mellor · 16-11-2020 3:48am

saabsaab wrote: »

Carbon is in Coal, oil, living and dead creatures and in the air as CO2 not rare at all. 43,500 Billion tonnes in the Earths surfce! Not counting within the planet. Diamonds can also be man made so not at all not rare either.

Rarity is relative. You claim it's more common that other elements. That isn't true. The fact it's in coal doesn't change that. 43,500 Billion tonnes is not a lot relative to the entire mass.

Carbon is one of the basic biologic elements. Yet it's much rare than other basic elements.

The mass-abundance of the nine most abundant elements in the Earth's crust is approximately: oxygen 46%, silicon 28%, aluminum 8.3%, iron 5.6%, calcium 4.2%, sodium 2.5%, magnesium 2.4%, potassium 2.0%, and titanium 0.61%. Other elements occur at less than 0.15%.

Carbon is not even in the top 15. It's down as low as 0.02%. Which is equal to 1/5000th. Twice are rare as strontium (that most people haven't even heard of).

I'm not claiming that diamonds are rare. I'm pointing out that your claim about carbon is wrong. This isn't a complicated point.

saabsaab · 16-11-2020 1:42pm

Mellor wrote: »

Rarity is relative. You claim it's more common that other elements. That isn't true. The fact it's in coal doesn't change that. 43,500 Billion tonnes is not a lot relative to the entire mass.

Carbon is one of the basic biologic elements. Yet it's much rare than other basic elements.

Carbon is not even in the top 15. It's down as low as 0.02%. Which is equal to 1/5000th. Twice are rare as strontium (that most people haven't even heard of).

I'm not claiming that diamonds are rare. I'm pointing out that your claim about carbon is wrong. This isn't a complicated point.

My claim is not wrong as it is easily available on Earth's surface to anyone. Wne you burn toast what do you get? The 'lead' in a pencil (graphite) hardly rare.

Mellor · 16-11-2020 1:50pm

saabsaab wrote: »

My claim is not wrong as it is easily available on Earth's surface to anyone. Wne you burn toast what do you get? The 'lead' in a pencil (graphite) hardly rare.

You compared it to other elements. Compared to them it is more rare. This is really simple. Not sure if you are struggling with the words or the numbers. But I’m fine.

saabsaab · 16-11-2020 1:57pm

Mellor wrote: »

You compared it to other elements. Compared to them it is more rare. This is really simple. Not sure if you are struggling with the words or the numbers. But I’m fine.

Compare it to the amount in the Universe sixth most common element. Easily available to us on Earth therefore not rare at all at all. Simple.

from Wiki
'Carbon is the 15th most abundant element in the Earth's crust, and the fourth most abundant element in the universe by mass after hydrogen, helium, and oxygen. Carbon's abundance, its unique diversity of organic compounds, and its unusual ability to form polymers at the temperatures commonly encountered on Earth enables this element to serve as a common element of all known life. It is the second most abundant element in the human body by mass (about 18.5%) after oxygen.'

Engagement Ring

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