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Engagement Ring

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13

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    #62
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mellor wrote: »
    Going in and picking the stone/setting/band exactly how you want, no matter how unusual still isn't designing your own ring. There are website that will do the same with a few drop down boxes.
    Same with people who design their own dress, or design their own home via a plan book or options wizard aren't suddenly dress designers or architects.

    I'm well aware that that some jewellers will still do custom jewellery. In that case, they are a highly specialist craftsperson, designing a ring for a clients brief/spec - reducing their skills to manufacture is a bit dismissive.

    Why are you so bothered by this? I don't know why you have such a bee in your bonnet about this, but that is not what happened. You weren't there!

    She drew the ring she wanted, then brought her drawings to a custom jeweller and asked them to make it to her design. Which they did. So, in my view, that is "designing your own ring". This was also 20 years ago, so no "drop down boxes" on jeweller websites either. Lord almighty!


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    #63
    Uncle Pierre
    Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭Uncle Pierre


    I dunno. I "designed" a personalised gift last week, for the young lad to give my wife for Christmas. I got him to help me pick a certain item from a website, choose a few photos to upload and which way to put them, and what text we wanted to appear on it.

    I wouldn't claim either of us is a designer by profession as a result of doing that, but I think it's fair enough to say that we "designed" that particular gift.

    Seems a bit of a hoo-hah over very little here, really....... :confused:


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    #64
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    Mod note: Alright, let's move on from the "designed/not designed" debate as it's not relevant to the topic of the OP.


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    #65
    Millem
    Registered Users Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    gypsy79 wrote: »
    Tony o Connor in Celtic jewelleryrepair.ie built my wife’s

    Couldn’t believe how good to experience was. My wife was mesmerised and price was outstandibf

    We got our wedding rings made there too. Really happy with them. We found that they were more expensive than a high street jewellers but heavier rings.


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    #66
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    Teach30 wrote: »
    It’s the age old adage love or money, I know which I require in larger amounts!
    I have friends of a similar mindset, and the ring was very important part of the deal. Also on not having children, I’d consider keeping the home a part of that deal also. I can’t see my partner cooking/cleaning etc. That’s just us mind, I know most here are of a totally different mindset which is fine by me. Each to their own.

    Anyways not dragging this thread OT anymore. Just wanted to point out that for many women the value of the ring is an important part of the engagement. I’ve had similar discussions with friends and work colleagues, some of whom have travelled abroad for a rock.

    But - as far as I know - you can pay x amount for a ring, and its resale value is way reduced straight away. So what the point of a high value ring, other than for show? If it’s affordable in the relationship then fair enough, but I can’t understand wanting or needing a partner to feel that they ‘should’ go OTT and think that a high value ring at time of purchase is the way to go. I honestly don’t get how an expensive ring is important or warranted or even a good idea.

    I’d be going for love rather than money. Obviously everyone has some deal-breakers in terms of similarity of earnings / views on money / expectations, but I think it’s not a good idea to advise the OP that he has to spend a huge amount of money on an engagement ring.


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    #67
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Teach30 wrote: »
    If I was presented with a less expensive option I’d have taken it back. No point pretending to like it an engagement shouldn’t be based on a lie because you were too afraid to tell it straight. If your getting engaged you’d surely know when the other person is into anyways. The “personal value” as someone else described it, wouldn’t come into it for me.

    I'm curious. If you know diamonds are effectively worthless (or that you could only get 40% of the money paid for it if you tried to sell it the day after buying it) why would you attach value to it?

    Like, if you know 'diamonds are forever' is a marketing trick - albeit well established, why would you nevertheless sign up?

    I could understand it if a person was unaware. But if made aware how is it possible to carry on regardless?

    Is the power of marketing that strong?

    Whatabout if the person invested a large sum in something which had actual value instead? Must it be a diamond ring?


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    #68
    gypsy79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭gypsy79


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    I'm curious. If you know diamonds are effectively worthless (or that you could only get 40% of the money paid for it if you tried to sell it the day after buying it) why would you attach value to it?
    That is the mark up you are paying to the seller. I dont have a clue what is market normal mark up. But you are implying 150% mark up

    I know I paid a lot less than that


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    #69
    Teach30
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Teach30


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    I'm curious. If you know diamonds are effectively worthless (or that you could only get 40% of the money paid for it if you tried to sell it the day after buying it) why would you attach value to it?

    Like, if you know 'diamonds are forever' is a marketing trick - albeit well established, why would you nevertheless sign up?

    I could understand it if a person was unaware. But if made aware how is it possible to carry on regardless?

    Is the power of marketing that strong?

    Whatabout if the person invested a large sum in something which had actual value instead? Must it be a diamond ring?

    I’ve never heard that that diamonds devalue over time. My ring wasn’t new and we still paid a fair amount so if it has devalued over time I’d love to know what it was worth originally.

    For me it’s not power of marketing it’s knowing that he was willing to fork out that much for me. Sure we could have spent it on other things, but we didn’t need the money for anything else.

    Interesting question, I’m not sure what else of value could be given instead?


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    #70
    Brandon75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭Brandon75


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    I'm curious. If you know diamonds are effectively worthless (or that you could only get 40% of the money paid for it if you tried to sell it the day after buying it) why would you attach value to it?

    Like, if you know 'diamonds are forever' is a marketing trick - albeit well established, why would you nevertheless sign up?

    I could understand it if a person was unaware. But if made aware how is it possible to carry on regardless?

    Is the power of marketing that strong?

    Whatabout if the person invested a large sum in something which had actual value instead? Must it be a diamond ring?



    If there worthless why do most people get diamonds on engagement rings compared to something else. Cant see why someone would sell there engagement ring anyway. Like everything else when you buy it then sell it you will make a loss.


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    #71
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,840 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Spend as little as possible IMO. Forgotten anyway in a year or two.


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    #72
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    In the whole universe, wood is more rare than diamonds, so if it’s about value and rarity, perhaps you’d be better off getting an engagement bookcase than a diamond ring.


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    #73
    woodchuck
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,409 Mod ✭✭✭✭woodchuck


    A lot of people suggest a token ring and that's a good idea, but you don't have to propose with a ring at all! My OH used an engagement puffin...

    After our first date, he went on holidays to Iceland with his family. When he came back, he gave me a little puffin figurine he bought there. What I didn't realise at the time, was that he had also bought a second little puffin. The first date went so well, he thought he'd keep the second puffin in case things continued to go well and he could give it to me at another point down the line. To reunite them, because puffins mate for life :)

    He also gave me a necklace so that I'd have a piece of jewellery to associate with getting engaged and we picked out a ring together another day. I love my ring, but it's all about the puffins really :D

    If the receiver of the ring is that concerned about getting a large expensive rock, I have to wonder about their motives tbh...


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    #74
    Vestiapx
    Registered Users Posts: 989 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    as_mo_bhosca wrote: »
    I think it depends on what you can afford. Do not listen to rubbish about 2/3 months salary. This is just a marketing campaign from De Beers diamonds and frankly would be a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a ring. My gf drives a car currently worth about 5k, if I spent 10-15k on a ring, I think she'd prefer a newer car!
    ETA: diamond industry/fecking eejits say I should spend 10-15k on a ring. I just spent a little over 1800 on a half carat diamond set in an 18 carat gold solitaire setting. IMHO opinion, and hers more importantly, it's all about the sparkle of the diamond!

    You earn 5 grand a month and paid 1,800 for your financees ring ?
    Genuinely interested u


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    #75
    as_mo_bhosca
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭as_mo_bhosca


    Vestiapx wrote: »
    You earn 5 grand a month and paid 1,800 for your financees ring ?
    Genuinely interested u

    The last line? Want to try that again?


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    #76
    Brandon75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭Brandon75


    Is it worth getting something for around 1k if you can and use that to propose instead of a token ring.

    Then she can pick one after of what she likes.
    this way you can still have a better ring then a token one.
    Instead of paying a couple of grand for one you hope she will like.

    Not like you can walk back in and hand the ring back to them after spending 5k for it .


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    #77
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    Brandon75 wrote: »
    Is it worth getting something for around 1k if you can and use that to propose instead of a token ring.

    Then she can pick one after of what she likes.
    this way you can still have a better ring then a token one.
    Instead of paying a couple of grand for one you hope she will like.

    Not like you can walk back in and hand the ring back to them after spending 5k for it .

    A thousand euro, for a token? A token is 20 quid from the Argos book. Not a thousand euro.


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    #78
    Brandon75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 ✭Brandon75


    jlm29 wrote: »
    A thousand euro, for a token? A token is 20 quid from the Argos book. Not a thousand euro.


    I said a ring for 1k instead of getting a token ring as it will look better then she can pick her own ring out.

    Rather then pay full wack of 4 or 5k and not been able to return it incase she doesnt like it or if doesnt fit properly.


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    #79
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Brandon75 wrote: »
    If there worthless why do most people get diamonds on engagement rings compared to something else. Cant see why someone would sell there engagement ring anyway. Like everything else when you buy it then sell it you will make a loss.

    Google 'have you ever tried to sell a diamond'. Enjoyable, informative read.

    The loss in this case arises from the fact that the diamond's value is manufactured and managed by a cartel rather than being intrinsic and defined by the open market.

    It doesn't depreciate in time like say a car - dropping bit by bit as you rack up the miles. Rather, it drops like a stone (!) in value the moment you buy it, going down to the wholesale price the jeweller can buy it for. That wholesale price too is manufactured and managed by the same cartel.

    You might lose a few grand on a 40K car if you took it off the forecourt and went to sell it the next day. There ain't anything I can think of that is as unsellable as a diamond re: the next day loss incurred.


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    #80
    UnBridled
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭UnBridled


    I don't think it's fair to look down on what a person values. Personally I don't equate expense with love but we all have different needs and wants. Let people do their thing.


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    #81
    saabsaab
    Registered Users Posts: 7,840 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Buy an expensive item that will lose half its cost immediately, is made from from one of the most common elements on earth and is no use to anyone? Amazing they get away with it.


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    #82
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    Brandon75 wrote: »
    I said a ring for 1k instead of getting a token ring as it will look better then she can pick her own ring out.

    Rather then pay full wack of 4 or 5k and not been able to return it incase she doesnt like it or if doesnt fit properly.

    So a ring for 1k, and then bring her to pick another one?


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    #83
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,142 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    It doesn't depreciate in time like say a car - dropping bit by bit as you rack up the miles. Rather, it drops like a stone (!) in value the moment you buy it, going down to the wholesale price the jeweller can buy it for. That wholesale price too is manufactured and managed by the same cartel.
    Some would argue that the wholesale price is the real. All the rest is mark up and profit for everyone that handled it. That’s more a product of what jewellers an collectively get. They don’t benefit as much by entertaining a secondary market.


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    #84
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,142 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    saabsaab wrote: »
    Buy an expensive item that will lose half its cost immediately, is made from from one of the most common elements on earth and is no use to anyone? Amazing they get away with it.
    Whether it retains all its value or loses it immediately is kinda of irrelevant is you plan to keep it forever.
    And it’s actually one of the more rare elements. Not sure where you got the idea it’s common.

    I agree that it’s a manufactured value. But your claims above are not true.


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    #85
    heroics
    Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭heroics


    nikpmup wrote: »
    Absolutely let her pick it!! Shopping for the ring is a lovely thing to do together, once restrictions are somewhat lifted. I ended up getting something that I never would have thought I'd like, once I saw it I knew it was the ring for me. If he'd picked my ring he never would have picked it based on what he thought my preference was.

    This is what I did with my wife. Proposed with a ring from Claire’s accessories :) The ring she picked is nothing like what she had described or what she herself admits she thought she wanted.


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    #86
    qwerty13
    Registered Users Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭qwerty13


    I don’t think many things of your posts (teach) ring true to current women, and that is why you get pushback on the 1950s attitude re being a kept woman.

    However, if it makes you and your partner happier, then off you pop. Your advice to others comes a across really badly though, as in like decades behind the times. “If you love me, you’ll sacrifice x financial amount, in order to prove it to the wider world”. Or do you actually believe that a high-cost engagement ring can be sold for a large amount of money if the marriage arrangement goes wrong?

    As others have advised, there is no intrinsic value in a diamond. It’s the marketing companies that make them appear valuable. I just don’t get it. Buy a lovely ring that either one of you will wear forever - other than that, well no. It’s a money game.


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    #87
    Teach30
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭Teach30


    qwerty13 wrote: »
    I don’t think many things of your posts (teach) ring true to current women, and that is why you get pushback on the 1950s attitude re being a kept woman.

    However, if it makes you and your partner happier, then off you pop. Your advice to others comes a across really badly though, as in like decades behind the times. “If you love me, you’ll sacrifice x financial amount, in order to prove it to the wider world”. Or do you actually believe that a high-cost engagement ring can be sold for a large amount of money if the marriage arrangement goes wrong?

    As others have advised, there is no intrinsic value in a diamond. It’s the marketing companies that make them appear valuable. I just don’t get it. Buy a lovely ring that either one of you will wear forever - other than that, well no. It’s a money game.

    I’m not offering advice only my opinion. I know only too well my attitude and views are vastly different to everyone else here but there’s nothing wrong with that. People need to realise than many newly married couples don’t all conform to modern day value of say sharing tasks around the house. I know far too many men who take no part in preparing meals, cooking, cleaning etc. Outside work, physical hard labour and long hours trumps any sort of inside light jobs. Reality check for people here, it’s the norm for so many. I see this amongst my work colleagues also it’s not just me.

    Also you totally misinterpreted my post on the cost, the higher value was to appease me not anyone else. Very few people will have any clue as to the cost of the ring. It’s not something women talk about, but those with an interest in fine jewellery may take more of an interest in sourcing a ring with certain characteristics.

    An expensive ring will hold value if re-sold. It just depends on how one goes about selling it. Personally if things went wrong I think the resale value of the ring would be the least of my problems.

    Also don’t be afraid to try an online auctions, plenty of good bargains to be found there. Antique rings can be of a better quality than new just do your research beforehand.


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    #88
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Mellor wrote: »
    Some would argue that the wholesale price is the real.

    Not if it's a cartel setting the wholesale price. The question is whether there is a cartel or not.


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    #89
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Interesting one from the horses mouth..

    Gemsociety.org

    "With explorations of several new sites, more diamond deposits will likely be found in the near future. De Beers still controls approximately 35-40% of the diamond rough supply. So far, the other suppliers have been content to sell at the same prices as De Beers. However, if the law of supply and demand ever catches up to the diamond market, prices will likely drop considerably. What would happen next is difficult to tell. De Beers has a large inventory of uncut diamonds and holds an excellent position for a price war."


    Interestingly, they list the price of other gems like sapphire and ruby and they are more expensive than diamond, like for like metrics, oft times. Yet folk think diamond is at the top of the heap.


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    #90
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    Brandon75 wrote: »
    I said a ring for 1k instead of getting a token ring as it will look better then she can pick her own ring out.

    Rather then pay full wack of 4 or 5k and not been able to return it incase she doesnt like it or if doesnt fit properly.

    My token ring wasn't anywhere near 1k and I still love it and wear it on my right hand. I'd never expect my fiancé to spend that kind of money and still get another ring. My engagement ring wasn't even as much as 4k.

    I loved shopping for a ring together. I had no idea what I wanted so how could he? We found the perfect ring together and it such was a fun day for both of us. We then had a second shopping day so I could buy him an engagement watch which was a similar price to my ring. It made no sense to me that he'd spend all that money on me and I wouldn't do the same for him.

    Interestingly, on a point much earlier in the thread, my token ring is white gold and the colour has not fared as well as that in my platinum engagement ring.


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    #91
    HildaOgdenx
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,632 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »
    My token ring wasn't anywhere near 1k and I still love it and wear it on my right hand. I'd never expect my fiancé to spend that kind of money and still get another ring. My engagement ring wasn't even as much as 4k.

    I loved shopping for a ring together. I had no idea what I wanted so how could he? We found the perfect ring together and it such was a fun day for both of us. We then had a second shopping day so I could buy him an engagement watch which was a similar price to my ring. It made no sense to me that he'd spend all that money on me and I wouldn't do the same for him.

    Yes, that's exactly what a former colleague of mine did. Her now husband proposed with a token ring, and then they went engagement ring shopping together. She wore the token ring on her right hand afterwards.

    It would always be precious to her because of what it represented, she said, which I thought was lovely.


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