New stationless bike rental scheme in Dublin - BleeperBike

ThisRegard · 27-06-2017 3:37pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

so if there is a shortage of bike parking, who should be sorting this out?

Did you read from the first page or two? Or are you advocating the council should be paying for additional bike stands for a private company to use?

Idbatterim · 27-06-2017 3:49pm

Did you read from the first page or two? Or are you advocating the council should be paying for additional bike stands for a private company to use?

all bikes are private, arent the users members of the public?

Macy0161 · 27-06-2017 4:01pm

Are you suggesting that bleeper are a not for profit operation?

ThisRegard · 27-06-2017 4:01pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

all bikes are private, arent the users members of the public?

Are you purposely failing to distinguish between their use for the public they were intended for, and the use of them by a corporate entity for financial gain?

Idbatterim · 27-06-2017 4:05pm

Are you purposely failing to distinguish between their use for the public they were intended for, and the use of them by a corporate entity for financial gain?

no I am not. Let them work out some system with DCC then where all new private entrants operating this model, provide some of their revenue to pay for bike parking. This could be argued back and forth about who should pay for it. The important thing in my opinion, is that it is sorted as quickly as possible. Dublin transport is shambolic and anything to get cars off the road is a good thing...

magicbastarder · 27-06-2017 4:22pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Let them work out some system with DCC then where all new private entrants operating this model, provide some of their revenue to pay for bike parking.

you're confusing me now. you're putting a prerequisite in when you claimed there should be none.

LeinsterDub · 27-06-2017 4:25pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

nothing. they are providing a public service as far as I am concerned! reducing traffic, pollution, noise pollution, improved health... If the city council are so concerned with bikes, why dont they allow taller buildings in appropriate areas and people might not even have to cycle to work, they could walk...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

expectationlost · 27-06-2017 4:55pm

wasn't there a recent review and implementation of more bike biking (not enough im sure)

mention of bike parking in latest Transport SPC https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/documents/s11625/March%202017%20Minutes%20Cycling%20Walking%20Sub-Committee.pdf

Cycle Parking - Siobhan Maher in the DCC liaison for Public Realm matters in the City.
Alec Dundon Executive Engineer DCC is in charge of bicycle parking projects and
temporary stands. Updates to cycle parking in the city to be circulated to committee.
Updates also placed on Dublinked data sharing platform.

dublinked > preview > map stick in y and x update https://data.dublinked.ie/dataset/dcc_public_cycle_parking_stands/resource/bf941a74-65b3-4791-84fc-f8a5aa6fe9d9

monument · 27-06-2017 7:00pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Never underestimate what the public would complain about to the council.

Given how strongly some cyclists feel against stationless systems or at least unregulated ones, I can well imagine the public in general complaining to the council.

S. Goodspeed wrote: »

Bleeper Bikes have all been removed by the county council according to the Irish Times. Apparently they received "numerous" complaints. They did in their hole...

This is a great example of civil servants standing in the way of innovation for no good reason, same goes for the treatment of Uber and the proposed restrictions on AirBnB. We claim to be a tech hub but have a bunch of mindless drones demanding bye laws for every new thing that comes out. That in itself would be (just about) acceptable but you can guess how long we'll have to wait for such bye laws and in terms of prioritisation I would imagine the council workers have better things that they could / should be working on.

“We intend discussing draft by-laws for Fourth Generation bikes at the next meeting of Dublin City Council’s Transportation Strategic Policy Committee...” -- source. Although, I think the full council has to approve them.

Macy0161 wrote: »

There's already a shortage of bike parking spots, as often bemoaned on this forum. No sign of this company paying for more sheffield stands to take up the space they'd be using? Just looking to freeload of the council they're now complaining about.

"Cooney said that Bleeperbike would be willing to contribute towards the cost of expanding bicycle parking in the city" -- source.

punisher5112 · 27-06-2017 9:55pm

http://www.stickybottle.com/latest-news/new-pay-per-use-bleeperbikes-removed-from-dublin-streets/

Council removes bikes off our streets.

punisher5112 · 27-06-2017 9:56pm

Amazing they can't do the same with rickshaws or at the very least leash them in and regulate.

Chuchote · 27-06-2017 9:57pm

Macy0161 wrote: »

If those discussions are a success then you'll give bleeper the credit. If they fall through, you'll still blame the council.

Gosh, thanks for telling me what I'll do - so handy to know!

Seriously, of course BleeperBikes should pay towards bike stands.

ED E · 27-06-2017 10:00pm

San Fran going the proven route. (same model as Santander cyc in London, arguably weaker than the DBs)

Ford’s GoBike dock-based bike-share program kicks off tomorrow, June 28 in the Bay Area. The program is being run in collaboration with Motivate, a platform operator and service provider for bike sharing networks, and will offer up 3,500 bikes by summer’s end throughout San Francisco

https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/27/ford-gobike-launches-in-the-bay-area-starting-tomorrow/?utm_source=tcfbpage&sr_share=facebook

expectationlost · 28-06-2017 12:07am

Draft Control of Stationless On-Street Bicycle Hire Bye-Laws 2017. https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/documents/s11750/Stationless%20On-Street%20Bicycle%20Hire%20Draft%20Bye-Laws%202017.pdf via https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=2232&x=1

200 quid licence fee and then an undefined per bicycle permit fee

monument · 28-06-2017 12:12am

expectationlost wrote: »

Draft Control of Stationless On-Street Bicycle Hire Bye-Laws 2017. https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/documents/s11750/Stationless%20On-Street%20Bicycle%20Hire%20Draft%20Bye-Laws%202017.pdf via https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=2232&x=1

200 quid licence fee and then an undefined per bicycle permit fee

Possibly worse still:

"Setting of the fee for the issue and renewal of a Bicycle Permit shall be an Executive Function. The Council reserves the right to review the permit fee after an initial three year period."

TallGlass · 28-06-2017 11:04am

I wonder have DCC have plans in the works to bring in a bike parking tax in the CC for private bikes.

LeinsterDub · 28-06-2017 11:12am

TallGlass wrote: »

I wonder have DCC have plans in the works to bring in a bike parking tax in the CC for private bikes.

None that I've heard of

punisher5112 · 28-06-2017 12:54pm

That would never happen.

wordofwarning · 28-06-2017 1:01pm

TallGlass wrote: »

I wonder have DCC have plans in the works to bring in a bike parking tax in the CC for private bikes.

I highly doubt it. The cost of collection/enforcement would likely exceed revenue.

Plus how do you justify the tax? How can they charge a tax for a service they don't actually provide? There is not proper bike parking in the city. If I cycle into Dublin City, I always give myself a minimum of 10 mins to try find somewhere to lock my bike up. In reality, it can take me 20 mins to find somewhere suitable. DCC provide hardly any bike racks in the City for the number of users. IMO the most bizarre example is Drumcondra Train Station. If that station was in a German City, there would hundreds of bike racks along it. DCC have literally throw up a handful of racks and called it a day.

Chuchote · 28-06-2017 2:09pm

I'd gladly pay a small fee if they provided bike racks like this

https://www.citylab.com/crime/2017/06/san-franciscos-new-bike-racks-are-self-aware/530904/

They scream if they're interfered with, and take photos.

expectationlost · 28-06-2017 2:34pm

the question is how other business are charged for operating and getting benefit of public infrastructure through tax and property rates, is this company getting more use of public infrastructure then say a bakery?

expectationlost · 28-06-2017 2:48pm

searched for the phrase Sheffield in the council minutes and found Feasibility Study for the Provision of City
Centre High Density Cycle Parking 2015
https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=2443&ISATT=1#search=%22sheffield%22 how much of this has been implemented?

there is a recently expanded column in this data? https://data.dublinked.ie/dataset/dcc_public_cycle_parking_stands/resource/bf941a74-65b3-4791-84fc-f8a5aa6fe9d9

papu · 28-06-2017 4:16pm

Chuchote wrote: »

I'd gladly pay a small fee if they provided bike racks like this

https://www.citylab.com/crime/2017/06/san-franciscos-new-bike-racks-are-self-aware/530904/

They scream if they're interfered with, and take photos.

These are fantastic!

LeinsterDub · 28-06-2017 7:48pm

expectationlost wrote: »

the question is how other business are charged for operating and getting benefit of public infrastructure through tax and property rates, is this company getting more use of public infrastructure then say a bakery?

If the bakery was using the footpath in front they pay for a license

expectationlost · 29-06-2017 12:01pm

stationless bike cos express concern about per bike fee and data DCC wants https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/council-permits-will-put-brakes-on-bike-hire-schemes-says-entrepreneur-xhcs29d33

5 v) The Operator shall keep and maintain throughout the duration of the licence full and accurate records of their journey data relating to the service and shall share same with the Council and also provide access at all reasonable times to duly authorised staff or agents of the Council to inspect its operational systems and other such documents as the Council considers necessary in connection with the issuing of the licence.

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/documents/s11750/Stationless%20On-Street%20Bicycle%20Hire%20Draft%20Bye-Laws%202017.pdf

Chuchote · 29-06-2017 12:37pm

expectationlost wrote: »

stationless bike cos express concern about per bike fee and data DCC wants https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/council-permits-will-put-brakes-on-bike-hire-schemes-says-entrepreneur-xhcs29d33 https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/documents/s11750/Stationless%20On-Street%20Bicycle%20Hire%20Draft%20Bye-Laws%202017.pdf

If it's anonymised, surely sharing the data with the State is no problem? It's helpful for the Council to know where demand is and design infrastructure accordingly.

LeinsterDub · 29-06-2017 12:38pm

expectationlost wrote: »

stationless bike cos express concern about per bike fee and data DCC wants https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/council-permits-will-put-brakes-on-bike-hire-schemes-says-entrepreneur-xhcs29d33 https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/documents/s11750/Stationless%20On-Street%20Bicycle%20Hire%20Draft%20Bye-Laws%202017.pdf

Makes sense for DCC to want to see when and where cycling occurs

ED E · 29-06-2017 12:39pm

The real problem is it will catch them in the lie, they wont have staff out clearing obstructions.

ThisRegard · 29-06-2017 12:42pm

Journey data could be pretty useful to the council for a number of reasons, can't see the issue with that, it's not really commercially sensitive.

LeinsterDub · 29-06-2017 12:49pm

ED E wrote: »

The real problem is it will catch them in the lie, they wont have staff out clearing obstructions.

The the real real problem is this model will need 10000+ bikes . There is no were near that level of legitimate bike locking facilities.

loyatemu · 29-06-2017 1:00pm

get the companies to pay for a stand for every 2 bikes licensed - DCC to install on their behalf. Cover the city with bike stands - there's plenty of space. If the companies are going to be charged then the money should be ringfenced for improved cycling facilities only.

LeinsterDub · 29-06-2017 1:05pm

loyatemu wrote: »

get the companies to pay for a stand for every 2 bikes licensed - DCC to install on their behalf. Cover the city with bike stands - there's plenty of space. If the companies are going to be charged then the money should be ringfenced for improved cycling facilities only.

For reference . DB works on circa 2 spaces for every bike available

jimmycrackcorm · 29-06-2017 1:15pm

LeinsterDub wrote:

For reference . DB works on circa 2 spaces for every bike available

In practice it is one full station with no spaces available for every station that has no bikes available.

expectationlost · 29-06-2017 1:50pm

call for more bike parking and query DCC regulator and operator

Cllr Cuffe updated the meeting. There was discussion on;
 the issue of 4th generation bike schemes and implications for City which would
be discussed at upcoming SPC. Cllr Muirautioned that DCC was operation
in bike rental schemes as both operator and regulator. Cllr Moynihan requested
that the issues related to these scheme be referred to the Law Agent for opinion
prior to the introduction of any Bye-Laws
 the demand for more cycle parking on and off street. D. Brady informed
members of new cycle spaces available shortly in Drury Street car park and other
locations. There were requests for multi-story cycle parking as in cities such as
Amsterdam.

https://www.dublincity.ie/councilmeetings/documents/s11741/249%20CPG.pdf

tomasrojo · 04-07-2017 9:47am

Tangentially related (or maybe directly related): Dublin Bikes is at last undergoing another expansion.
http://irishcycle.com/2017/07/04/dublinbikes-expansion-around-grangegorman-expected-within-weeks/

magicbastarder · 04-07-2017 10:43am

i found out yesterday that the chap behind bleeperbikes is a distant relative. maybe i should be nicer about it in future.

Chuchote · 04-07-2017 11:36am

Wasn't there a scheme announced for Dublin of at least one Japanese-style automatic parking high-rise thingy? Was it supposed to happen this year?

Oh no, "within the next four years" in 2015 (how could it take that long?

http://www.independent.ie/life/city-cycling/japanesestyle-multistorey-bicycle-parking-planned-for-dublin-within-the-next-four-years-31385104.html

Japanese-style multi-storey bicycle parking will come into effect in Dublin within the next four years, a senior Dublin City Council engineer has said.
Dublin City Council is formulating plans for secure multi-storey bicycle parking which will both tackle bicycle crime and increase the number of spaces for bicycle parking.
Michael Phillips, Dublin City Council’s Director of Traffic and City Engineer said: “One of the issues with theft is we’re afraid we’ll lose the cyclists if it continues.”

“In Japan, there are dedicated multi-storey parks where you get a ticket and a machine takes the bike and parks it.”
“We would minimise the price of it. But if you want to secure your bicycle, then I’m sure you wouldn’t mind paying for the parking,” Mr Phillips added.

“It’ll be three or four years yet before the Japanese style parking happens. In the meantime, we’ll be trying to use existing car parks and use those spaces in the city. That will come on stream sooner. We’ll have negotiations with car park owners about it.”

“The price of land is at a premium but we’re trying to see can we use multi-storey car parks a bit better to actually provide safe places for bicycle parking because bike theft is a huge issue.”

Over the last 10 years, bike theft has increased by 227 per cent. Around 6,750 bicycles were reported stolen last year.

ED E · 04-07-2017 12:40pm

They haven't managed to replicate Drury Street never mind a high tech solution. Pipe dream for the foreseeable future.

TheShow · 04-07-2017 2:33pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

Tangentially related (or maybe directly related): Dublin Bikes is at last undergoing another expansion.
http://irishcycle.com/2017/07/04/dublinbikes-expansion-around-grangegorman-expected-within-weeks/

they need to start looking at expanding beyond the canal.

Doctor Bob · 04-07-2017 2:49pm

TheShow wrote: »

they need to start looking at expanding beyond the canal.

Bike share schemes have a natural limit (imo), and the canals are as good a boundary as any for the DB scheme. I'd fill out the city centre within the canal ring before I'd consider any leap over the canals.

It is a truth universally acknowledged that usage rates decline with distance from a centre, and at some stage provision for cycling has to take over from provision of cycling.

In other news, interesting photos from China here: http://www.ad.nl/bizar/chinese-stad-zit-in-de-maag-met-reusachtig-leenfietsenkerkhof~a487f494/

TheShow · 04-07-2017 3:02pm

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Bike share schemes have a natural limit (imo), and the canals are as good a boundary as any for the DB scheme. I'd fill out the city centre within the canal ring before I'd consider any leap over the canals.

It is a truth universally acknowledged that usage rates decline with distance from a centre, and at some stage provision for cycling has to take over from provision of cycling.

Rathmines, Ranelagh, Ballsbridge, Harolds Cross and the equivalent periphery on the north side, all densely populated areas that could hugely benefit from expansion of the DB scheme. The city is not that big, and I get the point about usage rate / distance from centre, but surely these areas should not be overlooked. The city centre has a significant number of stations now and its great that more are being added. I guess overall, its a popular scheme being used by the masses, which is a good thing.

tomasrojo · 04-07-2017 3:19pm

Rathmines does seem a logical place to extend to. It's got a high population density, and it's maybe the most heavily cycled part of Dublin. Only just over the canal too.

Chuchote · 04-07-2017 9:39pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

Rathmines does seem a logical place to extend to. It's got a high population density, and it's maybe the most heavily cycled part of Dublin. Only just over the canal too.

Harold's Cross is the heaviest cycling area.

tomasrojo · 04-07-2017 9:53pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Harold's Cross is the heaviest cycling area.

Yeah, actually, maybe, with the two major arterial routes going through it (the N-S and E-W along the canal), but it's mostly people passing through, I think? Rathmines is a destination, a point of origin and a corridor, while Harold's Cross (to me anyway) seems to be a corridor mostly.

I guess I was thinking of some of IrishCycle.com's coverage:
http://irishcycle.com/2012/02/12/cyclists-in-rathmines-at-rush-hour/

tomasrojo · 04-07-2017 10:03pm

Just in case all that was a bit opaque, I mean Rathmines has a lot of shops, off-licences, restaurants, pubs, a public library, and other stuff I can't remember. Harold's Cross is in comparison mainly residential, so there aren't many people who don't live in Harold's Cross going to Harold's Cross itself.

Chuchote · 05-07-2017 12:33am

Yes, this is true; Harold's Cross has been hollowed out to the stage where it's hard for shops to survive, though it's beginning to have some good cafes, and several huge apartment blocks are being built which could make it a shopping area again if bikes rather than cars are facilitated; Rathmines is a whole little shopping area, and when (if…ever…) Fallon & Byrnes open is liable to take a giant leap upmarket.

ted1 · 05-07-2017 12:41am

Chuchote wrote: »

Yes, this is true; Harold's Cross has been hollowed out to the stage where it's hard for shops to survive, though it's beginning to have some good cafes, and several huge apartment blocks are being built which could make it a shopping area again if bikes rather than cars are facilitated; Rathmines is a whole little shopping area, and when (if…ever…) Fallon & Byrnes open is liable to take a giant leap upmarket.

There'll be a couple of hundred people living in the former greyhound track within s few years which might redshift the balance

Chuchote · 05-07-2017 7:45am

ted1 wrote: »

There'll be a couple of hundred people living in the former greyhound track within s few years which might redshift the balance

Greyhound track is going to be a secondary school, isn't it?

LeinsterDub · 05-07-2017 7:59am

Bleeperbikes back on the street today or did I just pass one no one collected?

tomasrojo · 05-07-2017 9:50am

I saw a Bleeper bike at a stand over the weekend somewhere. I was wondering the same.

New stationless bike rental scheme in Dublin - BleeperBike

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