New stationless bike rental scheme in Dublin - BleeperBike

HivemindXX · 20-06-2017 10:25am

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's arguable that if i cycled into the city, locked my bike in a particular spot, and went off for two hours shopping, i am 'using' my bike for those several hours - but a bike scheme bike like this could take up a public spot without actually being 'in use', depriving someone who does actually need a spot, from using it.

That's an interesting way of looking at it I think, and in fact I think you could argue that it is Bleeperbike that are using 100s of bike parking spaces at any given time to operate their business.

HivemindXX · 20-06-2017 10:32am

loyatemu wrote: »

no mention of bikes there

I just had a look and if you click all the way through to the form there is a category for abandoned bikes and trolleys.

An app which used your GPS and allowed you to pick a thing off a list would be a lot more convenient. This could also be used to fulfil Chucote's desire to indicate a need for bike parking, you could just click to say "I wanted to park my bike here and there was no space available".

This could be also used to indicate badly parked Bleeperbikes. I'm not planning to use their app if I find an entryway partially blocked or bikes locked to other bikes so that they can (maybe) take points off their users, I'd prefer to go straight to the council.

jon1981 · 20-06-2017 10:43am

There's a lot of potential issues/risks with this operating model, I do wish them all the best with it but I'd be nervous if I were the CEO. I really do hope people respect the service.

Chuchote · 20-06-2017 10:49am

HivemindXX wrote: »

I just had a look and if you click all the way through to the form there is a category for abandoned bikes and trolleys.

An app which used your GPS and allowed you to pick a thing off a list would be a lot more convenient. This could also be used to fulfil Chucote's desire to indicate a need for bike parking, you could just click to say "I wanted to park my bike here and there was no space available".

This could be also used to indicate badly parked Bleeperbikes. I'm not planning to use their app if I find an entryway partially blocked or bikes locked to other bikes so that they can (maybe) take points off their users, I'd prefer to go straight to the council.

Yes, I've been asking for potholes to be added to the See it! Say it! app, without any success so far. A 'bike parking needed' section would also be good.

loyatemu wrote: »

just zoom in on the map.

I tried this both at home and at Portobello and nothing showed.

ThisRegard · 20-06-2017 11:38am

They've pushed back their launch, seems like thev've realised it's better to have dialogue with the council after all.

magicbastarder · 20-06-2017 11:43am

common sense will prevail all round hopefully.

ED E · 20-06-2017 11:50am

loyatemu wrote: »

There may be an issue with parking but if more people are cycling then they should put in more parking (regardless of who owns the bikes).

Maybe I'm a cynic but people are inherently lazy when it comes to communal property and the way dublin is laid out the stands will never be directly opposite destinations.

Take any of the shops in Ranelagh, you can put stands off in the side streets but clientele won't bother to go looking for them if they aren't being charged. The footpaths simply can't accommodate them.

Chuchote · 20-06-2017 12:10pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

They've pushed back their launch, seems like thev've realised it's better to have dialogue with the council after all.

And meanwhile they've got a bit of pre-publicity… #CynicMode

ED E wrote: »

Maybe I'm a cynic but people are inherently lazy when it comes to communal property and the way dublin is laid out the stands will never be directly opposite destinations.

Take any of the shops in Ranelagh, you can put stands off in the side streets but clientele won't bother to go looking for them if they aren't being charged. The footpaths simply can't accommodate them.

Are there stands on the side streets? Are people not using them?

The council annoyingly removed the stands outside the blind shop in Terenure, but replaced them on the side street across the road. Despite the fact that this means crossing the slowest-response controlled pedestrian lights in Ireland, the stands are nearly always full and nearby signs also garlanded with bikes.

ED E · 20-06-2017 12:12pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Are there stands on the side streets? Are people not using them?

The council annoyingly removed the stands outside the blind shop in Terenure, but replaced them on the side street across the road. Despite the fact that this means crossing the slowest-response controlled pedestrian lights in Ireland, the stands are nearly always full and nearby signs also garlanded with bikes.

Privately owned bikes that owners spent hundreds on.

Chuchote · 20-06-2017 12:41pm

ED E wrote: »

Privately owned bikes that owners spent hundreds on.

Owners spent tens on more likely in Dublin, world epicentre of bike theft!

LeinsterDub · 21-06-2017 9:42am

Bikes appear to be on the streets today

Macy0161 · 21-06-2017 9:49am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Bikes appear to be on the streets today

Yep, a couple by the UCD gate on the Clonskeagh Road. Was on a run Happened to be passing the spot twice in around 40 minutes and no takers in that time.

buffalo · 21-06-2017 10:01am

They're all over the city: http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/20/these-white-dublinbikes-rival-bicycles-can-be-found-from-howth-to-inchicore-to-mount-merrion/

img_5810.png?w=640

LeinsterDub · 21-06-2017 10:01am

Macy0161 wrote: »

Yep, a couple by the UCD gate on the Clonskeagh Road. Was on a run Happened to be passing the spot twice in around 40 minutes and no takers in that time.

Seen them out as far a Mobhi Rd in Glasnevin too. If the issues with abandoning , usage of public property cost of removing DublinBikes can be resolved I see this as being a great idea

Fian · 21-06-2017 10:15am

Lumen wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/bleeper-bikes-dublin-3448895-Jun2017/

“It is an offence under Section 71 of the Roads Act 1993 to place unlicensed items in the public footpath/roadway,” the council said.

So a person who places a thing which provides a service or which advertises a service without consent from the road authority [council] is committing an offence.

ISTR various bikedorks on here asserting previously that (a) the footpad is technically "on the public road" (b) the council is the road authority in the city.

Not quite imo. there is a big difference between something "used to advertise a service" and something "used to cycle around but which incidentally also advertises a service. So you can legally park a car with the logo of your company on it if you are using the car for transport purposes when you pop into a shop or whatever, but you cannot permanently park a car with advertising emblazoned on it which is really a billboard rather than a vehicle being used as a vehicle.

I don't believe the co co are correct that they are legally entitled to seize these bikes. Even if they were it would be easy to remove/cover the advertising.

My phone is windows phone - great OS, crap app selection, no "my taxi2 or "bleeperbike" apps.

Chuchote · 21-06-2017 10:18am

If you can't advertise a service on a rented bike, every rental bike in the country hired out to tourists is illegal.

magicbastarder · 21-06-2017 10:26am

Fian wrote: »

Not quite imo. there is a big difference between something "used to advertise a service" and something "used to cycle around but which incidentally also advertises a service. So you can legally park a car with the logo of your company on it if you are using the car for transport purposes when you pop into a shop or whatever, but you cannot permanently park a car with advertising emblazoned on it which is really a billboard rather than a vehicle being used as a vehicle.

yeah, the advertising thing is a bit of a red herring. to draw the closest analogy with this solution, did go car consult with the various local authorities about where they could place their cars?

loyatemu · 21-06-2017 11:07am

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah, the advertising thing is a bit of a red herring. to draw the closest analogy with this solution, did go car consult with the various local authorities about where they could place their cars?

I'm pretty sure they did, seeing as they have a deal with the council to allow them free parking.

Lumen · 21-06-2017 11:10am

Fian wrote: »

Not quite imo. there is a big difference between something "used to advertise a service" and something "used to cycle around but which incidentally also advertises a service. So you can legally park a car with the logo of your company on it if you are using the car for transport purposes when you pop into a shop or whatever, but you cannot permanently park a car with advertising emblazoned on it which is really a billboard rather than a vehicle being used as a vehicle.

I don't believe the co co are correct that they are legally entitled to seize these bikes. Even if they were it would be easy to remove/cover the advertising.

My phone is windows phone - great OS, crap app selection, no "my taxi2 or "bleeperbike" apps.

OK, fair enough.

There's still the "provides a service" objection though. If they are being left on the "road" for people to collect whenever they feel like it, that seems to be something like "providing a service".

LeinsterDub · 21-06-2017 12:21pm

Just seen a DCC van pass Stephen's Green with what looks to be 4 or 5 bikes in the back

magicbastarder · 21-06-2017 12:23pm

heh. if they did go ahead without meeting with the council - after (i believe?) saying they'd sit down with them, i have no sympathy for them.

actually, just to confirm - you do mean the bikes in the van were bleeperbikes?

ThisRegard · 21-06-2017 12:27pm

Expect the mayor to be on the warpath too, with them pesky 'illegal' bikes blocking up all the footpaths.

Fian · 21-06-2017 12:29pm

Lumen wrote: »

OK, fair enough.

There's still the "provides a service" objection though. If they are being left on the "road" for people to collect whenever they feel like it, that seems to be something like "providing a service".

True but:

71.—(1) (a) Any person who, without lawful authority or the consent of a road authority—

(i) erects, places or retains a sign on a public road, or

(ii) erects, places or retains on a public road any caravan, vehicle or other structure or thing (whether on wheels or not) used for the purposes of advertising, the sale of goods, the provision of services or other similar purpose,

shall be guilty of an offence.

(b) A consent under paragraph (a) may be given by the road authority subject to such conditions, restrictions or requirements as it thinks fit and any person who fails to comply with such conditions, restrictions or requirements shall be guilty of an offence.

the offence doesn't capture using a vehicle to provide a service (imagine if it did! no more pizza delivery

) - it captures using a vehicle to advertise the provision of a service (amongst other things).

We have all seen truck trailers permanently parked in fields to be used as advertising billboards. This offence prohibits parking them on a public road to do that.

Edit
>.< hang on a minute. There is a comma there that seems to contradict my interpretation. It seems to be intended to capture chip vans or trucks used as mobile banks etc. I still think they are on dodgy ground - considering the number of logo emblazoned company cars etc. used all the time. And the vehicle is being used for transportation ultimately.

Chuchote · 21-06-2017 12:39pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

Expect the mayor to be on the warpath too, with them pesky 'illegal' bikes blocking up all the footpaths.

Undocumented

LeinsterDub · 21-06-2017 12:44pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

heh. if they did go ahead without meeting with the council - after (i believe?) saying they'd sit down with them, i have no sympathy for them.

actually, just to confirm - you do mean the bikes in the van were bleeperbikes?

Only got a quick glimpse but appeared to be

DanDublin1982 · 21-06-2017 12:53pm

Spotted a couple in inchicore this morning too. I reckon its a service I might use if they expand it out my direction.

LeinsterDub · 21-06-2017 1:00pm

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Spotted a couple in inchicore this morning too. I reckon its a service I might use if they expand it out my direction.

With this type of scheme there is no expansion to be done the bikes basically end up where they end up.

magicbastarder · 21-06-2017 1:01pm

Fian wrote: »

>.< hang on a minute. There is a comma there that seems to contradict my interpretation. It seems to be intended to capture chip vans or trucks used as mobile banks etc. I still think they are on dodgy ground - considering the number of logo emblazoned company cars etc. used all the time. And the vehicle is being used for transportation ultimately.

whether it's captured in the law or not, i do see a qualitative difference between a company vehicle with the logo on the side, and these bikes.

the issue is that if one of these vehicles parks in a designated parking spot and pays for it, there's no issue there (and i think most metered on-street parking has a maximum stay time of three hours anyway?)

the issue here is that the council have provided bike locking stations for the public to use, and a private company have come along and decided they're going to take up a possibly significant number of these spaces for their own private enterprise - possibly denying cyclists a designated place to lock their bikes in the process. they're leeching off an infrastructure which was not designed to accomodate them.

as they are using what is meant to be a free public good for private profit, i don't have sympathy for them. whether the council have a legal basis on which to challenge them on this point is another matter.

the council themselves, when they rolled out the bike scheme, created dedicated stations for them.

Chuchote · 21-06-2017 1:32pm

Hope Bleeperbikes have GPS

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40351409

A Chinese bike-sharing company has gone out of business after 90% of its bikes went missing in the first five months.
Chongqing-based Wukong Bikes said the bulk of its 1,200 two-wheelers were lost or stolen.
Unlike rivals, the firm did not put GPS systems on its bikes and by the time it realised the technology was necessary, money had run out.

HivemindXX · 21-06-2017 1:34pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Hope Bleeperbikes have GPS

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40351409

They do, this is the method by which you find out where the nearest bike is as far as I understand it. They are going to need it based on what I can see of the quality of the locks included.

jon1981 · 21-06-2017 5:41pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Hope Bleeperbikes have GPS

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-40351409

There's so many risks in this model, I wonder how many bikes they have to loose before they go bust, also how busy and therefore costly will the staff be running around trying to save bikes and move bikes to legal locations.

Fian · 21-06-2017 5:46pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

whether it's captured in the law or not, i do see a qualitative difference between a company vehicle with the logo on the side, and these bikes.

the issue is that if one of these vehicles parks in a designated parking spot and pays for it, there's no issue there (and i think most metered on-street parking has a maximum stay time of three hours anyway?)

the issue here is that the council have provided bike locking stations for the public to use, and a private company have come along and decided they're going to take up a possibly significant number of these spaces for their own private enterprise - possibly denying cyclists a designated place to lock their bikes in the process. they're leeching off an infrastructure which was not designed to accomodate them.

as they are using what is meant to be a free public good for private profit, i don't have sympathy for them. whether the council have a legal basis on which to challenge them on this point is another matter.

the council themselves, when they rolled out the bike scheme, created dedicated stations for them.

Couldn't you say the same thing about them using the roads?

The parking is there for people who use this scheme as well as for people who use their own bikes. More bikes on the road = good news as far as i am concerned - anything that encourages more people to cycle. A critical mass of cyclists -> more cycling infrastructure -> positive feedback loop -> everyone benefits - even those who don't cycle but just get spillover benefits from less traffic congestion.

magicbastarder · 21-06-2017 6:08pm

Fian wrote: »

Couldn't you say the same thing about them using the roads?

no, because they're not denying the use of the roads to another user.

the council don't allow car sales businesses from parking their cars in public parking places for a similar reason AFAIK.

ED E · 21-06-2017 7:18pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

no, because they're not denying the use of the roads to another user.

the council don't allow car sales businesses from parking their cars in public parking places for a similar reason AFAIK.

But the gardai let them block the roads

Chuchote · 21-06-2017 7:32pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

no, because they're not denying the use of the roads to another user.

Can bicycles now colocate in the same spot then?

magicbastarder · 21-06-2017 8:12pm

yes, but at different times.

papu · 21-06-2017 8:22pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

no, because they're not denying the use of the roads to another user.

the council don't allow car sales businesses from parking their cars in public parking places for a similar reason AFAIK.

The motorbike shop on camden street using public pathways for years. Plenty of antique and hardware shops bring things out onto the pavement with nothing said about it. Sandwich boards and signs are on public pathways all over the city. It really is the council picking and choosing their battles.

magicbastarder · 21-06-2017 8:26pm

does the motorbike shop have a licence for that - which they probably do, and are perfectly entitled to apply for?

you *can* apply for a licence to use the public footpath for your business - which bleeperbike have singularly failed to do. why should they be allowed get away with it when so many other businesses have adhered to the bye laws?

papu · 21-06-2017 8:32pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

does the motorbike shop have a licence for that - which they probably do, and are perfectly entitled to apply for?

you *can* apply for a licence to use the public footpath for your business - which bleeperbike have singularly failed to do. why should they be allowed get away with it when so many other businesses have adhered to the bye laws?

License or no, it takes the piss.

But I understand what you're saying.

desertcircus · 21-06-2017 8:52pm

So this is a euro a pop, and bikes will probably be heavily concentrated in areas that already have Dublinbikes. And outside of high-density areas, finding one within a reasonable distance probably won't be even slightly reliable.

And I feel we can't stress this enough - at a euro a go, ten weeks of commuting on one would cost you as much as your own basic bike.

jimmycrackcorm · 21-06-2017 9:36pm

desertcircus wrote:

And I feel we can't stress this enough - at a euro a go, ten weeks of commuting on one would cost you as much as your own basic bike.

I can't stress this enough. The most likely user is someone who is normally a Dublin bike user but will use this because the DB rack is empty our they can drop it off very conveniently to where they want to go.

If this crowd dropped off bikes near Heuston station in the morning, they'd rake in the money.

AndrewJRenko · 21-06-2017 9:38pm

papu wrote: »

License or no, it takes the piss.
But I understand what you're saying.

Might well be worth querying this with Dublin City Council

desertcircus · 21-06-2017 9:40pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I can't stress this enough. The most likely user is someone who is normally a Dublin bike user but will use this because the DB rack is empty our they can drop it off very conveniently to where they want to go.

If this crowd dropped off bikes near Heuston station in the morning, they'd rake in the money.

If they paid two people to drive around the city with a van collecting them and dropping them in Heuston, they'd make about 20-30 quid per round trip. Gross. It'd be a bananas business model - subtract two staff members' wages and the cost of running the van and you could easily be losing money.

LeinsterDub · 21-06-2017 9:55pm

desertcircus wrote: »

.
And I feel we can't stress this enough - at a euro a go, ten weeks of commuting on one would cost you as much as your own basic bike.

I read somewhere that there is a 75 euro a year commutator option. If it's city wide and available that would be less than I spend on maintaining my bike

Chuchote · 21-06-2017 10:31pm

They were in non-DublinBike areas today, certainly - outside the canals, in Harold's Cross and Terenure, Rathmines, Ranelagh and in the Clanbrassil Void. Dolphin's Barn, Kimmage and Drimnagh seem bike-free, though.

jimmycrackcorm · 21-06-2017 10:51pm

desertcircus wrote:

If they paid two people to drive around the city with a van collecting them and dropping them in Heuston, they'd make about 20-30 quid per round trip. Gross. It'd be a bananas business model - subtract two staff members' wages and the cost of running the van and you could easily be losing money.

They're employing people to go around hunting for for badly parked bikes. Leo a stock of bikes nearby Heuston for example and replenish during rush hour would be effective. DB bikes get shifted about but it's very poorly managed with a lot of stations with no bikes at key times because there is no incentive.

A commercial approach to quickly replenish bikes at key locations at times of high demand would make good business sense.

HivemindXX · 21-06-2017 11:07pm

HivemindXX wrote: »

They do, this is the method by which you find out where the nearest bike is as far as I understand it. They are going to need it based on what I can see of the quality of the locks included.

I saw some on Thomas Street today and stopped to have a look. They have a heavy duty frame lock in addition to the laughably pathetic cable lock so they won't be vulnerable to someone snipping the cable and cycling away.

All the ones I saw were very neatly parked at Sheffield stands (near Dublin Bikes stations), which was a good sign, but I suspect they had been left there by staff not users.

DanDublin1982 · 21-06-2017 11:28pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I read somewhere that there is a 75 euro a year commutator option. If it's city wide and available that would be less than I spend on maintaining my bike

Yep 75 per year and includes two (up to) one hour rides per day. Decent enough though I'm not sure I could ever rely on one being available around my way for the commute in.

Chuchote · 21-06-2017 11:31pm

Looking at the map they don't seem to be at UCD, Phoenix Park, East Point Business Park/East Wall, Ballsbridge, Ringsend, TCD, Croke Park, Finglas, Dublin Airport, and I'm a bit hazy about where DCU is?

ED E · 21-06-2017 11:39pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Looking at the map they don't seem to be at UCD, Phoenix Park, East Point Business Park/East Wall, Ballsbridge, Ringsend, TCD, Croke Park, Finglas, Dublin Airport, and I'm a bit hazy about where DCU is?

Its Glasnevin.
https://goo.gl/maps/iuduWRagmXx

Saw one at the north side of Glasnevin Ave today parked in a bike rack.

New stationless bike rental scheme in Dublin - BleeperBike

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