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Danske bank to close retail customer accounts

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    #122
    .BrianJM
    Subscribers Posts: 2,670 ✭✭✭.BrianJM


    I don't have a loan or mortgage but have other accounts and all the 'chat' about transferring mortgages etc. is confusing me.
    Their web page says:
    Mortgages
    There is no change to your mortgage arrangement. The outstanding amounts will continue to be repaid within the existing agreed terms and conditions.

    Personal Loans
    There is no change to your personal loan arrangement as a result of today's announcement. The outstanding amounts on your loan will continue to be repaid within the existing agreed terms and conditions.

    We will be writing directly to all customers in the coming weeks to confirm this position.
    That suggests, to me, that loans and mortgages shall continue unchanged.


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    #123
    kennM
    Registered Users Posts: 603 ✭✭✭kennM


    Auld-Yin wrote: »
    I don't have a loan or mortgage but have other accounts and all the 'chat' about transferring mortgages etc. is confusing me.
    Their web page says:That suggests, to me, that loans and mortgages shall continue unchanged.

    Thats what confusing people, myself included. I've an offset mortgage and as such how can my mortgage continue unchanged, they will have to continue with my current account arrangements to facilitate same...


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    #124
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    My problems with Danske are that I've a sizeable balance on my credit card that would be a problem to transfer. Also I've been used to having an overdraft facility and I don't know if I can get a sufficient one as a new customer.

    In one sense, not having an overdraft would help me manage my finances better but I like the flexibility it gives. As for the credit card well it will be up to Danske to let me pay it off as and when I can.

    It also occurs to me that as I have my mortgage (var) with them, that it might make sense to look to change that over too. Although I would have a 50% LTV, I get the impression that banks arent really interested in that though.


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    #125
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Auld-Yin wrote: »
    I don't have a loan or mortgage but have other accounts and all the 'chat' about transferring mortgages etc. is confusing me.
    Their web page says:That suggests, to me, that loans and mortgages shall continue unchanged.

    Yes correct everything to remain the same until we say it changes until then we will continue as we are until early next year.


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    #126
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Yes correct everything to remain the same until we say it changes until then we will continue as we are until early next year.

    Remember, they have dismantled that business stage by stage. With the cut of each part, they denied that there would be any further cuts.


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    #127
    cunnijo
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭cunnijo


    Hi

    Visited the website this morning and found this rather strange. While they have announced their plan to cease day by day banking for personal and business clients they have updated the cards section to now mention the MasterCard Debit card which replaces Laser. It also states that all Laser cards are being replaced this month as they all expire on the 31 January 2014 irrespective of the expiry date on the card. Question is has anyone received the replacement cards and if so what expiry dates are on them?


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    #128
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    @cunnijo: Perhaps they simply have to do that as the deadline for laser is 28/02/2014.


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    #129
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    cunnijo wrote: »
    Hi

    Visited the website this morning and found this rather strange. While they have announced their plan to cease day by day banking for personal and business clients they have updated the cards section to now mention the MasterCard Debit card which replaces Laser. It also states that all Laser cards are being replaced this month as they all expire on the 31 January 2014 irrespective of the expiry date on the card. Question is has anyone received the replacement cards and if so what expiry dates are on them?

    I got letter from them yesterday saying much the same.
    Curiouser and curiouser!


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    #130
    Curly Judge
    Registered Users Posts: 2,708 ✭✭✭Curly Judge


    Post arrived an hour ago.
    I activated my new card and it says it is now valid until the end of 2014.


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    #131
    JTMan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,537 ✭✭✭JTMan


    On the surface it is a crazy decision by Danske to proceed with issuing the MasterCards.

    Difficult to put logic to it other than the looming SEPA and IPSO Laser deadlines must be in advance of the deadline for complete closure of Danske Banks current account products.


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    #132
    ABC101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭ABC101


    Open to correction if a poster knows better but here is my take on the situation.

    My opinion is that none of the staff in Danske Bank Ireland know how the various products are going to be wound up.

    Custody accounts.... Convert shares to paper Certs, liquidate to cash and transfer to another bank account, liquidate and send out a cheque, transfer to another trading account?.... Nobody knows! They are still awaiting answers from Copenhagen.

    Offset mortgages, again nobody knows, however if you have such a product it is a contract between you and the bank. It is up to the Danske to sort it out, I would suggest contacting a solicitor to check out the nitty gritty.

    For Danske bank to ask me to give up my offset they would have to take 50K off my principle outstanding for me to switch to another mortgage with another bank. Otherwise I would be loosing money. Why should I lose money because they decide to alter the contract?

    In short I'm holding on to see what they offer, problem is that the Irish staff actually don't know anything due to having no direction, no instructions no guidance from Copenhagen on how to unwind their position in Ireland.


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    #133
    AlexisM
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭AlexisM


    ABC101 wrote: »
    For Danske bank to ask me to give up my offset they would have to take 50K off my principle outstanding for me to switch to another mortgage with another bank. Otherwise I would be loosing money.
    Unless you have an enormous mortgage with a very long term to go AND a large amount in your offset accounts, it is very unlikely that the purely financial benefit of an offset mortgage would be valued at anything close to 50K. The flexibility to have offset balances going up and down without having to commit to paying anything off the capital is fantastic but if you actually crunch the numbers of 'what is this worth', and (importantly from a valuation point of view) 'when do I see the financial benefit', you should see that it's not actually worth as much as you think. I have an offset mortgage with Danske, love it and hope I can keep it going in some form - or get a payoff/write-down to move it elsewhere - but I know if there's any kind of offer, it won't be huge.


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    #134
    ABC101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭ABC101


    All good points AlexisM, however I suspect you are making a number of assumptions, what is an enormous mortgage? 100 K, 300k, 400k or 700k?

    In addition what is a high balance current account? 5k, 15k, 60k?

    It's all relative to what you are used to, some people would think all their Christmases came at once if they had 5K in their current account while others would be panicking that their balance was below 20K!

    However regardless of what you save over the lifetime of the offset mortgage, if its 5k, 25k, or 50k there has to be some saving otherwise there would be no point in paying a higher rate 4.6% for the offset as against 4% for your standard variable mortgage.

    In addition don't forget Danske offered another 0.45% off the 4.6% offset mortgage if one had a prestige account.


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    #135
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    It will be interesting to see what happens. They want to close the business so offers have to be good customers are not compelled to except new terms.


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    #136
    kennM
    Registered Users Posts: 603 ✭✭✭kennM


    Either way all we can do is speculate until we get answers...

    Personally I suspect offset mortgages (in my case) will be passed off to another provider offering offset mortgage and current account facilities. Essentially my package picked up and dropped onto another provider. (Sold off at a discount I'm sure)

    There may be offers depending on Danske's position. If they are "selling" off my mortgage to another provider at a reduction of 50K for arguments sake, they may offer mortgage holders themselves a deal of less thank 50K to switch themselves. End result Danske end up with more.

    I would be doubtful that they'll go for the former as it'd be tedious to manage on a large scale in a timely manner.


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    #137
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    More interesting will the loss making trackers. Who would buy that bundle and at what price ?


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    #138
    kennM
    Registered Users Posts: 603 ✭✭✭kennM


    handlemaster wrote: »
    More interesting will the loss making trackers. Who would buy that bundle and at what price ?

    They will likely be sold at a loss... i.e. it'll cost Danske to get rid of them. Or they may be bundled with other mortgages/products that would be profit making for the institution taking them over....

    Either way its all just speculation at this point... I would say Danske are in negotiations with other institutions at present on this hence they have no answers yet. I would also assume they have strict rules and procedures to follow from the ombudsman


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    #139
    Zagato
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Zagato


    handlemaster wrote: »
    More interesting will the loss making trackers. Who would buy that bundle and at what price ?

    Do you think they will sell them all together? Presumably depends a lot on there being ongoing capacity to repay as best as the bank can judge. I would have thought the bank that buys them will be the bank which is able to borrow money the cheapest (has the most to gain) as it will be Danske that take the hit.


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    #140
    AlexisM
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭AlexisM


    ABC101 wrote: »
    However regardless of what you save over the lifetime of the offset mortgage, if its 5k, 25k, or 50k there has to be some saving otherwise there would be no point in paying a higher rate 4.6% for the offset as against 4% for your standard variable mortgage.
    Interestingly, the offset rate (4.6%) has been lower than the variable rate (4.95%) since Danske increased their variable rate a few months ago - I couldn't figure out the angle on that - maybe it was part of getting ready for closing down - offset rates lower than regular rates to compensate for the loss of the offset. My mortgage is split - partially offset, partially SVR - ironically so we could keep the lower SVR rate while still getting offset benefits...
    ABC101 wrote: »
    In addition don't forget Danske offered another 0.45% off the 4.6% offset mortgage if one had a prestige account.
    That's available to all mortgages, not just offset ones and I'd say it's pretty much guaranteed to disappear for all now that there isn't a current account to link to anymore - they can say it was a benefit of the current account rather than a benefit of the mortgage.

    Intersting times. Three weeks on from the announcement and I haven't heard anything from them. Maybe they are hoping that people will just go ahead and leave in advance of them having to do anything.


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    #141
    cunnijo
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭cunnijo


    AlexisM wrote: »
    Interesting times. Three weeks on from the announcement and I haven't heard anything from them. Maybe they are hoping that people will just go ahead and leave in advance of them having to do anything.

    I too like you have heard nothing. As for hoping customers will just leave they can dream on. They will not have it that easy. Many customers including myself will probably stay to the end (or close to it at least) and get what we can out of it. The only correspondence you'll probably receive in the meantime will be the replacement Debit MasterCard, which replaces Laser. Rather strange especially when they claim all personal accounts (current & saving) will be gone by mid 2014.


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    #142
    Thoie
    Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    handlemaster wrote: »
    More interesting will the loss making trackers. Who would buy that bundle and at what price ?

    I thought they were hanging on to mortgages, and just getting rid of current/savings accounts etc? They are:
    http://www.danskebank.ie/en-ie/Pages/danske-announcement.aspx#personal

    What's Going:
    Current Accounts
    Overdrafts
    eBanking

    Savings Accounts


    What's Staying
    Mortgages
    Personal Loans

    Other products - they'll give you 2 months notice.

    The only reason people are discussing mortgages here is because some mortgage products were linked to specific types of current accounts. In the case of most mortgages, the easiest thing will be for them to allow you to feed the mortgage from an alternative account (with another bank). The offset mortgages are the only awkward ones, as those depend on the balance in your current account.


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    #143
    AlexisM
    Registered Users Posts: 250 ✭✭AlexisM


    Thoie wrote: »
    I thought they were hanging on to mortgages, and just getting rid of current/savings accounts etc?
    According to the Irish Times, they plan to transfer their mortgages to a third party. They may be 'keeping' mortgages and loans because they can't just demand repayment.
    Personal and business loans have been placed into a non-core unit, to be worked out over two years. Mortgages and long-term business loans will either be off-loaded to a third party or refinanced by customers. Personal loans, which typically involve shorter repayment periods, will be allowed to run off.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/business/sectors/financial-services/significant-lay-offs-to-follow-danske-bank-restructure-1.1598006


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    #144
    Zagato
    Registered Users Posts: 1,775 ✭✭✭Zagato


    AlexisM wrote: »
    They may be 'keeping' mortgages and loans because they can't just demand repayment.

    Is that not usually one of the terms of loans, just not one that is likely to be called upon?


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    #145
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Zagato wrote: »
    Is that not usually one of the terms of loans, just not one that is likely to be called upon?
    How could it be? How could anyone just present with the paid in full on a mortgage at the drop of a hat? If this was the case, they would have done this a long time ago with loss making trackers.

    They have a contract with us - and they have to keep it - just like we have to hold up our end.


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    #146
    ABC101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭ABC101


    Thanks for all your posts, interesting times ahead, I think I will open a new credit card account with another bank, I don't want to be caught short.

    Until staff in Danske Ireland are instructed in how to wind up various products we will be kept in the dark.

    Obviously some products will be easy to withdraw, but others such as offsets and custody accounts will be more tricky, and there just maybe a chance for clients to be given a sweetener to switch to another institution. Here's hoping!!!

    Ultimately if you are going to be at a financial loss due to Danske upsetting the apple cart then I would advise consulting a solicitor, perhaps then the sweetener could be sweetened a touch more!!!


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    #147
    cunnijo
    Registered Users Posts: 617 ✭✭✭cunnijo


    Hi

    Just got a reply from Danske to a message I sent through eBanking in relation to the issuing of the Debit Mastercard They have confirmed that these will be issued during the months of November and December. However there was no reference what so ever to the wind down. Proves that staff are possibly still in the dark and it is business as usual.


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    #148
    gamblor101
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭gamblor101


    cunnijo wrote: »
    Hi

    Just got a reply from Danske to a message I sent through eBanking in relation to the issuing of the Debit Mastercard They have confirmed that these will be issued during the months of November and December. However there was no reference what so ever to the wind down. Proves that staff are possibly still in the dark and it is business as usual.

    Strange. I just received a new card with laser on it. Expires end of next year.


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    #149
    Rock Steady Edy
    Registered Users Posts: 346 ✭✭Rock Steady Edy


    This article from 2005 suggests that First Active had an offset mortgage, so it would be interesting to know how these were handled when Ulster Bank took over First Active.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/before-opting-for-an-offset-mortgage-do-your-interest-rate-homework-26005366.html


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    #150
    mel.b
    Registered Users Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭mel.b


    cunnijo wrote: »
    Hi

    Just got a reply from Danske to a message I sent through eBanking in relation to the issuing of the Debit Mastercard They have confirmed that these will be issued during the months of November and December. However there was no reference what so ever to the wind down. Proves that staff are possibly still in the dark and it is business as usual.
    gamblor101 wrote: »
    Strange. I just received a new card with laser on it. Expires end of next year.

    Yes, i have just received a new laser card too. The original one had to be cancelled. Exp is Nov 2014, but i saw above that laser will be stoppednin Feb 2014?


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    #151
    JimsAlterEgo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,917 ✭✭✭JimsAlterEgo


    Rock Steady Edy wrote: »
    This article from 2005 suggests that First Active had an offset mortgage, so it would be interesting to know how these were handled when Ulster Bank took over First Active.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/before-opting-for-an-offset-mortgage-do-your-interest-rate-homework-26005366.html

    I think Ulster bank have offset mortgages


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