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Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They don't need to fly from longer runways.

    Again - and? They use what runways are there.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 574 ✭✭✭18MonthsaSlave


    Razor44 wrote: »
    ROFL you can still only have 1 plane on 1 runway at a time, so if there are 2 runways that equals 2 planes able to go at them same time...

    anyways im no longer going to feed the trolls, :)
    You absolutely didn't get the point I was making but felt a need to comment on it anyhow. bye, bye.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    An airline with a fleet of 737 airplanes would resent having their passengers paying for additional infrastructure they'll never use.

    well if ryanair atlantic does every fly, they would use it and with pre clearance here, could feed in colossal numbers via the uk from dub or do it from Shannon. Although being from Dub, I would not want to transit through Shannon. This is assuming we keep the advantage on airport charges and maintain advantage of US pre clearance over the uk...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 574 ✭✭✭18MonthsaSlave


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    well if ryanair atlantic does every fly, they would use it and with pre clearance here, could feed in colossal numbers via the uk from dub or do it from Shannon. Although being from Dub, I would not want to transit through Shannon. This is assuming we keep the advantage on airport charges and maintain advantage of US pre clearance over the uk...
    DAA are such caring souls they satisfy the needs of their customers before their Cusotmers even perceive them.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    DAA are such caring souls they satisfy the needs of their customers before their Cusotmers even perceive them.

    They have customers and potential customers who need a longer runway now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    This is getting beyond ridiculous now.

    Stop feeding the troll now.

    18mas, Ryanair would be suicidal to shut some of their routes to skew the passenger threshold passing point but if they do that, other airlines would have no problem taking that route of them.

    Ryanair fly to airports around Europe with runways longer than Dublin like Gatwick, Manchester, Standsted. There are more airports on mainland but I'm not going to bother listing them.



    Please starting posting something actually useful and back the fook up with it, not with some stupid bullshít.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 574 ✭✭✭18MonthsaSlave


    Gotta go. Got things to do.
    I've outlined some uncomfortable hometruths which are that:
    current traffic growth can't be relied upon to continue on its upward trajectory.
    low cost carriers are hugely sensitive to high passenger charges at their airports.
    low cost carriers are hugely mobile and will either adjust number of passengers flying though the airport or withdraw routes in line with whatever best suits them from a profitability perspective and this will be played out both tactically and strategically.
    If passenger numbers do collapse at Dublin due to external unforeseen factors the debt servicing costs of the runway construction project on top of their presvious infrastructure investment activities may be untenable.

    Based on the issues mentioned above a wait and see strategy would be most prudent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    If passenger numbers do collapse at Dublin due to external unforeseen factors the debt servicing costs of the runway construction project on top of their presvious infrastructure investment activities may be untenable.
    They did collapse in 08 and are already not far from peak numbers...


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I've outlined some uncomfortable hometruths which are that:

    No, you haven't.

    What you've done is tell us nothing we didn't already know, but massively overstating in the process; alongside trying to claim that all the traffic growth was down to returning emigrants and that Ryanair would act like a petulant toddler in a buggy fairly shortly.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 574 ✭✭✭18MonthsaSlave


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    They did collapse in 08 and are already not far from peak numbers...
    I can reply quickly. say runway was built. We've seen DAA accounts linked by me and they are not especially profitable. runway is built, has to be paid for. huge repayments, passenger numbers drop. Government keeps tapping DAA up for their dividend as Government are in the Doo-Doo. Imagine the lunatic asylum that Dublin Airport would be when it was being squeezed dry by the Government. This is a government that is raiding pensions which are sacrosanct.
    You might want to "bet the house" on a new runway with a build it and they'll come but Business people who don't want to go out of business don't think like that.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    I'd like to be getting 10.30 out of about 7 million passengers wired directly to my account every year without any effort involved

    Are you really trying to suggest that there's no costs involved for DAA in operating the airport for Ryanair? I've been close to putting you on the ignore list for some of the garbage that's been posted in this thread, and this inane suggestion is just making that decision easier, there are massive and significant costs involved in just opening the doors for passengers, let alone the costs of things like Rescue and Fire services, the costs of operating huge numbers of lights on runways, the navigation aids, and all the other aspects of the day to day operation of an airport that you seem to think Ryanair don't use or need.

    We'd all be much happier if the aggravation of the security checks was to go away, but it won't any time soon, and that's a significant cost in terms of people and equipment that has to be paid for by the passengers.

    I'm sure you will complain bitterly if your flight is delayed by snow at some stage, have you stopped to think just how much expense is involved in having snow clearing equipment in place in case it does snow, and if I am honest, that's an area that DAA have not exactly dealt with well over recent years.

    There is a good chance that a second runway will reduce some costs for Ryanair, in as much as there will be fewer delays for departure, and sitting in a queue with engines running is expensive, as is flying around half of North Leinster in a queue to land, I watched one inbound Ryanair on FR24 fly over Baldonnel, and before landing, it ended up going north to beyond Ardee, before coming back round to land on 16. Flying at low level, and slow, is expensive in the overall cost of operating a jet, if they don't have to do so much holding and queuing, that's a cost saving. Low level slow flying in bad weather is also very unpleasant for the passengers on the aircraft, so anything that reduces the time spent actually getting on to the ground should be welcomed by all.

    28 is getting close to its end of life without significant repair and resurfacing, the thought of trying to operate everything from 16/34 doesn't even bear thinking about, if for no other reason than that there's so little wriggle room on the taxiway system, working everything to the east of 16/34 will be almost impossible with the traffic levels that are now happening, the other factor being that if 28 is out of action for a prolonged period into the winter months, there will be issues with diversions, as 16/34 is about as far away from the prevailing wind at Dublin as it's possible to be.

    For wider economic, operational and capacity reasons, 28R has to happen, and a spin off benefit is that it is a piece of infrastructure that will put significant money into the economy without inflating the property bubble even further, which will be a lot better than some of the other schemes that have been floated. It will also secure the operation of the airport, and like it or not, Dublin is the main airport for the entire island of Ireland.

    As with so many other projects that are either managed or controlled by political influence, the way its being done is a shambles, but that's nothing new in this country, and maybe the real discussion should be about how politics in this country operates (or doesn't depending on your viewpoint) , rather than arguing how Ryanair might try to manipulate the decisions made at Dublin Airport.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Gotta go. Got things to do.
    I've outlined some uncomfortable hometruths which are that:
    current traffic growth can't be relied upon to continue on its upward trajectory.
    low cost carriers are hugely sensitive to high passenger charges at their airports.
    low cost carriers are hugely mobile and will either adjust number of passengers flying though the airport or withdraw routes in line with whatever best suits them from a profitability perspective and this will be played out both tactically and strategically.
    If passenger numbers do collapse at Dublin due to external unforeseen factors the debt servicing costs of the runway construction project on top of their presvious infrastructure investment activities may be untenable.

    Based on the issues mentioned above a wait and see strategy would be most prudent.

    You have done nothing of the sort other than tell us your OPINION a deeply flawed one at that.

    You haven't supported it with anything in reality and not linked your argument to any statistics or research.

    Thankfully it's only an opinion and one no airline or airport operator would look at.


  • Registered Users Posts: 39 Bo91


    Anyone hear about air China starting a 3 weekly service to Dublin next year from Beijing Hear an a330 will be the aircraft .


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    Bo91 wrote: »
    Anyone hear about air China starting a 3 weekly service to Dublin next year from Beijing Hear an a330 will be the aircraft .

    Source?


  • Registered Users Posts: 87 ✭✭Cravens


    The Air China is only a rumour at the moment doing the rounds on Airliners and PPRuNe. I won't take it as gospel until there is an official announcement.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    Cravens wrote: »
    The Air China is only a rumour at the moment doing the rounds on Airliners and PPRuNe. I won't take it as gospel until there is an official announcement.

    Exactly,not so long ago there was talk of an EK A380 coming into DUB for testing!!

    In saying that,it's only a matter of time I reckon before it happens. There's been many visits with high ranking Chinese officials to Ireland,and direct flights between China and Ireland have been discussed on numerous occasions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭man98


    I read that 30,000 passengers annually fly Dublin - Beijing, generally with Etihad/ Emirates. That's 50 a day. Of course, passengers for Shanghai, Tokyo or Seoul could connect more easily and cargo. Even with all that factored in, could 3 weekly flights be sustained? I suppose it's the question Chinese airlines are asking too…


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 denis halpenny


    Why dont the DAA make the main runway longer,so any size of aircraft can avail of it,as other people are saying gatwick airport is managing with one runway and they have 10 million more passengers.Why cant they do it now get it done no talk just action.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Why dont the DAA make the main runway longer,so any size of aircraft can avail of it,as other people are saying gatwick airport is managing with one runway and they have 10 million more passengers.Why cant they do it now get it done no talk just action.

    Because it needs a complete rebuild and that can't do that without *having* another runway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 denis halpenny


    well what about extending the other runway if possible first and then when that can be used fully concentrate on the main runway then.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭jamo2oo9


    well what about extending the other runway if possible first and then when that can be used fully concentrate on the main runway then.

    Extending the 34/16 runway will just wasted money as that runway is planned to be decommissioned once the new runway is built.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 denis halpenny


    ok i understand well in that case they need to get the finger out and build the parallel runway now sooner than later.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 922 ✭✭✭FWVT


    jamo2oo9 wrote: »
    Extending the 34/16 runway will just wasted money as that runway is planned to be decommissioned once the new runway is built.

    Decommisioned? Why? What happens in the many cases per year when that's the only usable runway? Surely we're not going for a unidirectional setup?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    FWVT wrote: »
    Decommisioned? Why? What happens in the many cases per year when that's the only usable runway? Surely we're not going for a unidirectional setup?

    I don't thinks it's been decided yet. Some plans show it still in existence and others show it gone. One of the problems with keeping it is trying to squeeze two runways worth of traffic onto it, it being a shorter runway with non precession approach on one end and CATI the other. A runway that when it is used causes flow control to be imposed because of the poor layout of taxiways. So you build a second runway and the airport can now handle 50+ movements an hour per runway, you go to 16/34 and capacity reduces to 40ish on only one runway. While yes you still get some traffic moving its a massive capacity drop and one operators wouldn't be happy with.

    Catch 22 then do you stick with one direction runway op or do you suffer a huge capacity reduction to keep a crosswind.

    Remember plenty of airports have a one direction runway both on a single runway and multi runway system. The operators are well used to this.

    Note I'm not saying which I'm in favour of im just being Devils advocate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Dublin Airport welcomes 950,000 extra seats for winter

    Christmas has come early for Dublin Airport in the shape of 19 additional routes - and almost a million extra seats - this winter.

    The addition of nine new flights, along with the extension of 10 summer services into winter for the first time, will add 950,000 extra seats across the airport's winter route network.

    The 19 additions represent a 10pc increase in capacity over 2013.

    Capacity and frequency will also increase significantly on a number of continental European flights, it says, capping off a bumper year for the airport.

    New routes include Inverness, Cologne and Iasi in Romania, while recently launched services to San Francisco, Toronto and Marrakech will operate for the first time this winter.

    “This is likely to be Dublin Airport’s busiest winter season since 2008,” said Dublin Airport Managing Director, Vincent Harrison.

    The new sun, ski and city break destinations will, coupled with additional capacity on many existing routes, "significantly strengthen" Dublin Airport’s route network, he added.

    Passenger numbers at Dublin have increased by 7pc so far in 2014.

    Over 16.6 million passengers used the airport during the nine months to the end of September.

    An improving economy, the abolition of air travel tax in last year's budget, an award-winning social media presence and its pre-clearance US immigration facility are all factors behind the airport's boom in passenger numbers.

    Dublin isn't alone in feeling the benefits of economic recovery, however.

    Shannon Airport is also predicting a bumper year, with passenger numbers on course to increase by 10pc over 2013.

    Knock Airport recorded a record 102,774 passengers through its terminal last August.

    In addition to its winter routes, Dublin Airport has announced several new flights for 2015, including Iceland with WOW Air, new services to Addis Ababa and LA with Ethiopian Airlines, and a direct flight from Dublin to Helsinki with Finnair.
    Also I read that Lufthansa were going to start flying Munich to Dublin on a daily basis from next summer...

    http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news/14-10-16/Lufthansa_Expands_Dublin-Munich_Service.aspx

    could DAA waive all charges for operators that operate routes not currently served by the airport, for the first year or two, so that the 25million number could be reached a year quicker? Then again there wouldnt be the guarantee that it would save the year...


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,575 ✭✭✭lord lucan


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Also I read that Lufthansa were going to start flying Munich to Dublin on a daily basis from next summer...

    http://www.dublinairport.com/gns/at-the-airport/latest-news/14-10-16/Lufthansa_Expands_Dublin-Munich_Service.aspx

    could DAA waive all charges for operators that operate routes not currently served by the airport, for the first year or two, so that the 25million number could be reached a year quicker? Then again there wouldnt be the guarantee that it would save the year...

    AFAIK the daa still operates an incentive scheme for airlines whereby if they start up a new route from DUB they can get pretty decent rebates on airport charges.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,855 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    So what are the 19 new routes?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    So what are the 19 new routes?
    Nineteen additional services will operate from Dublin Airport this winter, comprising nine new routes and 10 summer services that will operate this winter for the first time.

    New routes include Inverness, Cologne and Iasi in Romania (only ones I could find).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭man98


    By new routes, could they be adding BA and BE flying to London City, or BE taking over SEN route?


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  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    man98 wrote: »
    By new routes, could they be adding BA and BE flying to London City, or BE taking over SEN route?

    If they are counting duplicates, there's others - EI (RE) to LBA and EMA; AY to HEL next year for instance.


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