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Waterford - Rosslare Greenway

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  • 17-05-2020 2:10pm
    #1
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc1prUMDbQA


    Only came across this video today. Interesting how it's not possible to leave a comment. I'd be worried for the future of the line save for the fact that Wexford County Council are even more useless than CIE and will probably never get their act together.

    ****



«13

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    #2
    Turbohymac
    Registered Users Posts: 472 ✭✭Turbohymac


    The greenways are really good actually..the Dungarvan to Waterford one is great..there currently cleaning and preparing the old disused railtrack between youghal and midleton..yes there were loads moaning about it and saying the train track should have been restored and public transport from cork all the way to youghal but it was loss making when it closed back in 1979 or so.. and it's not visible..far better to develop family friendly greenways instead of letting the rail track abandoned


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    #3
    91wx763
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭91wx763


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    The greenways are really good actually..the Dungarvan to Waterford one is great..there currently cleaning and preparing the old disused railtrack between youghal and midleton..yes there were loads moaning about it and saying the train track should have been restored and public transport from cork all the way to youghal but it was loss making when it closed back in 1979 or so.. and it's not visible..far better to develop family friendly greenways instead of letting the rail track abandoned
    .....in 1979 or so..............

    Nuff said.


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    #4
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,790 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    the main issue with this one will be the Barrow bridge, it's massive and apparently in bad condition. Who will pay to repair/maintain it?


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    #5
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    loyatemu wrote: »
    the main issue with this one will be the Barrow bridge, it's massive and apparently in bad condition. Who will pay to repair/maintain it?

    Charge the cyclists the cost per use. If they want the line they can pay for the damn thing.


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    #6
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,827 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    but it was loss making when it closed back in 1979 or so.. and it's not visible..

    Show me the railway that makes a profit in this country, do roads make a profit?


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    #7
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    loyatemu wrote: »
    the main issue with this one will be the Barrow bridge, it's massive and apparently in bad condition. Who will pay to repair/maintain it?

    This is why IE would happily offload the route however not sure it will be done that easy.

    I couldn’t see major spend to have walkers or cyclists on it.


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    #8
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,827 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Lord Glentoran wrote: »
    Charge the cyclists the cost per use. If they want the line they can pay for the damn thing.

    Greenways aren't free anyway. Nothing is.


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    #9
    sweet_trip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭sweet_trip


    loyatemu wrote: »
    the main issue with this one will be the Barrow bridge, it's massive and apparently in bad condition. Who will pay to repair/maintain it?


    The Barrow Bridge is also still in operation and manned to let ships through multiple times per week. Good luck with that one.


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    #10
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,790 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    sweet_trip wrote: »
    The Barrow Bridge is also still in operation and manned to let ships through multiple times per week. Good luck with that one.

    last I heard they were proposing to remove the opening section to save money on maintenance (as happened in Waterford in the 80s).


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    #11
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Show me the railway that makes a profit in this country, do roads make a profit?

    a better description would be the line was underused. Show me a road that isn't used.


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    #12
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,847 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Show me the railway that makes a profit in this country, do roads make a profit?


    What a terrible comparison. Roads don't need passengers to pay a fare to pay for the upkeep of rolling stock and infrastructure or staff wages.

    If nobody uses a road it costs the state the same as if 100000 people use it. The same cannot be said of railways.


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    #13
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    What a terrible comparison. Roads don't need passengers to pay a fare to pay for the upkeep of rolling stock and infrastructure or staff wages.

    If nobody uses a road it costs the state the same as if 100000 people use it. The same cannot be said of railways.

    The new Government should move to “pay by use and impact” road pricing, with higher rates for heavier vehicles, and then you will have a real cost comparison with railways.


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    #14
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    This is why IE would happily offload the route however not sure it will be done that easy.

    I couldn’t see major spend to have walkers or cyclists on it.

    A bridge like this costs a very substantial sum of money every year to keep in a condition fit for traffic, let alone upgrade it for use by cyclists and pedestrians. And it is already in fairly poor condition.

    Also the opening span to allow shipping through, that would cost an absolute fortune to upgrade, maintain and operate.

    The cost of doing up that bridge alone would probably exceed the cost of every other piece of that greenway.

    It simply would not be worth that massive money for a leisure oriented cycleway.

    Better off just making the greenway up as far as the abutment at either side, make a nice picnic and viewing area and forget about the bridge. Still stunning scenery either way.


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    #15
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Lord Glentoran wrote: »
    The new Government should move to “pay by use and impact” road pricing, with higher rates for heavier vehicles, and then you will have a real cost comparison with railways.

    That is already the case. Small cars cost small tax, use relatively little fuel the cost of which is mostly taxes. They have a very small impact in terms of road wear and tear. On the other hand, an artic truck costs lots of motor tax, travels relatively huge milage and uses huge amounts of fuel compared to your average VW golf. HGVs are the biggest factor in road wear and tear. So a truck operator pays vastly more to the government in road use related tax than biddy going to the shops in her car.

    On the Barrow Bridge, I would agree. The lift span will probably be removed. possible scrapped. Best case is that it'll be left at one of the abutments and made an exhibit or something.


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    #16
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    That is already the case. Small cars cost small tax, use relatively little fuel the cost of which is mostly taxes. They have a very small impact in terms of road wear and tear. On the other hand, an artic truck costs lots of motor tax, travels relatively huge milage and uses huge amounts of fuel compared to your average VW golf. HGVs are the biggest factor in road wear and tear. So a truck operator pays vastly more to the government in road use related tax than biddy going to the shops in her car.

    On the Barrow Bridge, I would agree. The lift span will probably be removed. possible scrapped. Best case is that it'll be left at one of the abutments and made an exhibit or something.

    More likely nicked by scrap dealers. Official Ireland’s track record regarding industrial heritage is poor. No wonder the railways, the canals and bridges are targeted by vultures looking to use them for nothing.


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    #17
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Lord Glentoran wrote: »
    No wonder the railways, the canals and bridges are targeted by vultures looking to use them for nothing.

    Who are these "vultures" and what are they looking?


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    #18
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Even considering turning this route into a greenway is beyond belief but then long term planning does not feature on the NTA's agenda.

    ****



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    #19
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    A bridge like this costs a very substantial sum of money every year to keep in a condition fit for traffic, let alone upgrade it for use by cyclists and pedestrians. And it is already in fairly poor condition.

    Also the opening span to allow shipping through, that would cost an absolute fortune to upgrade, maintain and operate.

    The cost of doing up that bridge alone would probably exceed the cost of every other piece of that greenway.

    It simply would not be worth that massive money for a leisure oriented cycleway.

    Better off just making the greenway up as far as the abutment at either side, make a nice picnic and viewing area and forget about the bridge. Still stunning scenery either way.

    Well if the maintainers had spent what they should have when they had money it wouldn't be in such a bad state and IE are not spending what they should be in terms of regular maintenance currently either.

    My comment was more so IE would offload this bridge because the greenway funding would easily allow circa 2 million be available to upgrade and maintain to a better standard that today.

    I don't think a greenway will happen on this route and at some stage IE will need to increase funding for its maintenance.


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    #20
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Hilarious. €2 million wouldn't even begin to sort out the upgrade of that bridge to the standard required for a cycle way.
    I'd say it's more like €10 million for the bridge alone.
    Probably €1m annually in inspection, maintenance and operation costs alone. At least.
    It is a very significant structure, not a hollow core slab fecked across a stream.


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    #21
    PTH2009
    Registered Users Posts: 37,899 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    What villages did the line go through coming from Waterford ??

    Can't recall many if any East Waterford villages that had a railway line

    Always get mixed up with the Barrow bridge and the abandoned Red iron bridge


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    #22
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Hilarious. €2 million wouldn't even begin to sort out the upgrade of that bridge to the standard required for a cycle way.
    I'd say it's more like €10 million for the bridge alone.
    Probably €1m annually in inspection, maintenance and operation costs alone. At least.
    It is a very significant structure, not a hollow core slab fecked across a stream.

    The projected costs for the planned greenway which was rejected were €12 million and while I think that was underestimate there would have been some consideration given to Barrow Bridge.

    Irish Rail are spending next to nothing and let 100 tonnes pass over it.


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    #23
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    Yes but as far as IE are concerned it is a run down asset that they are just itching to wash their hands of. If it can be done on the basis that it is no longer safe to traverse that would be a nice get out for them.


    And anyway, whatever state it might now be in, the reality is if you are making it a pedestrian and cycle bridge, it will need to be upgraded to meet the standards required for that. That process will require close inspections, surveys and analysis to decide whether it is safe to do so. Engineers cannot give the go ahead to use the bridge or upgrade it if they are in the knowledge that some elements of the bridge are defective or so deteriorated as to be unsafe. The thing is, as I said, a bridge of that scale will cost s stupendous amount of money to repair if there is anything other than superficial damage to it.

    Look at Daly's "Shakey" Bridge in Cork. It is costing €1.7million to refurbish that brige with a span of only 160 feet. Both bridges are from a similar era and probably neglected to a similar degree. God only knows how much the Barrow Bridge would cost to make it safe for pedestrians and cyclists.

    Fair play on the optimism, but I can't see it ending up being any different to the Red Iron Bridge. I'll eat my hat, shoes and socks if it opens as part of the Greenway.


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    #24
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,673 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    TheBoyConor wrote: »
    Yes but as far as IE are concerned it is a run down asset that they are just itching to wash their hands of. If it can be done on the basis that it is no longer safe to traverse that would be a nice get out for them.


    And anyway, whatever state it might now be in, the reality is if you are making it a pedestrian and cycle bridge, it will need to be upgraded to meet the standards required for that. That process will require close inspections, surveys and analysis to decide whether it is safe to do so. Engineers cannot give the go ahead to use the bridge or upgrade it if they are in the knowledge that some elements of the bridge are defective or so deteriorated as to be unsafe. The thing is, as I said, a bridge of that scale will cost s stupendous amount of money to repair if there is anything other than superficial damage to it.

    Look at Daly's "Shakey" Bridge in Cork. It is costing €1.7million to refurbish that brige with a span of only 160 feet. Both bridges are from a similar era and probably neglected to a similar degree. God only knows how much the Barrow Bridge would cost to make it safe for pedestrians and cyclists.

    Fair play on the optimism, but I can't see it ending up being any different to the Red Iron Bridge. I'll eat my hat, shoes and socks if it opens as part of the Greenway.

    I believe plans for the greenway were rejected and have to date not been revised nor do I see any funding becoming available.

    IE have tried fix the bridge in its open position but have not been successful yet.


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    #25
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    I'm slightly at a loss to know why anyone would want to build a direct greenway to/from Rosslare really but the obvious thing is Waterford - New Ross, New Ross to Campile and then get on the railway route. Take out the bridge and it's expense entirely and as a cyclist from Rosslare you have two options - go north to NR or take the ferry at Ballyhack which is just a few KMs away from Campile and makes plenty of sense anyway! Run a "green lane" from Passage East to Waterford..


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    #26
    91wx763
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭91wx763


    The greenway has to come to a halt before it reaches the port of Waterford land.

    See page 90 of http://www.portofwaterford.com/uploads/download/19_10_10_E1475_PoW_Masterplan_SEA_Enviro_Report.pdf

    Section 6.10 para 8. (PDF doesn't allow copy/paste sorry).

    Aside also in the same PDF, point 10 of Cllr Power's email to the port of Waterford exec in the public consultation submissions section (submission no. 11) does raise an eyebrow, he says that walkers had "unfettered access" to the railway line and would the port be providing alternative access !!! it's an operational railway and he wants trespass accommodated.... strewth.

    (Easiest way to navigate the PDF to see my points is ctrl+F and keyword "railway").


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    #27
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,827 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    I believe plans for the greenway were rejected and have to date not been revised nor do I see any funding becoming available.

    IE have tried fix the bridge in its open position but have not been successful yet.

    Rejected as sea views can't be seen, curiously silent about the bridge matter both on local press and cyclist organ stickybottle.


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    #28
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    Registered Users Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭Curb Your Enthusiasm


    Isambard wrote: »
    a better description would be the line was underused. Show me a road that isn't used.

    Show me a railway line with one train a day each way at rubbish times that isn't 'underused'. The scheduling was unusable for the majority. Similar to what they're currently doing on Lmk - Waterford and Ballybrophy - Lmk lines.

    IMO, leaving poor schedules in place to give them a case in future to wash their hands of the lines.


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    #29
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »
    Show me a railway line with one train a day each way at rubbish times that isn't 'underused'. The scheduling was unusable for the majority. Similar to what they're currently doing on Lmk - Waterford and Ballybrophy - Lmk lines.

    IMO, leaving poor schedules in place to give them a case in future to wash their hands of the lines.

    show me a railway line that has a train going where everyone wants it to go immediately.
    Works both ways.


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    #30
    91wx763
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭91wx763


    Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »
    Show me a railway line with one train a day each way at rubbish times that isn't 'underused'. The scheduling was unusable for the majority. Similar to what they're currently doing on Lmk - Waterford and Ballybrophy - Lmk lines.

    IMO, leaving poor schedules in place to give them a case in future to wash their hands of the lines.

    Completely correct.


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    #31
    Curb Your Enthusiasm
    Registered Users Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭Curb Your Enthusiasm


    And it begins....
    https://waterford-news.ie/2020/05/20/waterford-to-limerick-junction-rail-service-to-be-restored-in-time/#.XsZTBxjTUwB


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