Dad finds out that none of his kids are biologically his.

goose2005 · 10-01-2019 9:25pm

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The concept that caring about one's genetic lineage - considered by many to be the ultimate meaning of life - is somehow silly or childish, which is often pedalled in feminist forums when the subject of paternity fraud comes up, is something I find unbelievably disturbing and genuingly just very saddening. The idea that a man shouldn't care whether or not he's successfully propagated his genetic line which has replicated itself for the last four billion years, and has no right to be upset or pissed off at discovering that he's been lied to about it, is utterly twisted and repulsive - but it's frightening just how frequent the argument is, that as long as you develop an emotional bond, you shouldn't care whether your own blood flows through your kid's veins and that you're somehow a lesser person if you do.

I really hope it's just a fringe belief on the internet, because it's just incredible sad. To the nihilistic mind, if life is here by accident then it's a beautiful convergence of happenstance, and being denied the chance to take part in that by being falsely told that you already have, is monstrous.

If maternity hospitals routinely gave the wrong babies to mothers, even 1% of the time, it would be treated as a terrible scandal

ceadaoin. · 10-01-2019 9:30pm

So, let just assume all mothers are cheating liars and let the government test them accordingly? Do people really see nothing wrong with a society being based on this opinion of women, that we simply can't be trusted, and even being endorsed by the government?

And no it's nothing got to do with "guilt" on my part or whatever nonsense was posted earlier. Im actually scared for my daughter growing up in a world where these kinds of attitudes about women seem to be the norm. Not just this thread, several others full of bile against women. Why not just go full handmaid's tale while we're at it and make women property again. That will solve the (miniscule) problem right?

Anyway, I think I've had enough of the woman haters of boards for today.

Ariadne · 10-01-2019 9:32pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Is it unusual to be diagnosed with cystic fibrosis so late?

Glad she didn’t get away with it anyway. But what an awful shock for him. Cystic fibrosis AND the realisation that his children weren’t his. That is just tough all round. Are men with cystic fibrosis always infertile? I’m sure it’s been proven that he is anyway.

It's pretty unusual to be diagnosed with CF so late but it does happen. Now we have the heel prick test in Ireland so it's usually picked up at new born screening but some cases of CF go undiagnosed into adulthood. I've heard of people in their 70s and 80s being diagnosed with CF in other countries but that's very rare because the average life expectancy for CF is the late 30s so these people must have a very mild variation. I've also heard of people in their 20s, 30s or 40s being diagnosed. I was fourteen myself and that's unusual too. I don't have weight issues and failure to thrive usually leads to a diagnosis in small babies, I had the lung and sinus issues but the lung ones were misdiagnosed as asthma.

@Wibbs iirc I think about 95% of men with CF are infertile, it generally depends on genes. One of the genes I have can be associated with fertility in men with CF. Though the vast majority are infertile. Fertility in women with CF may need to be assisted by IVF.

Gimme A Pound · 10-01-2019 9:32pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

The actual father should know. I’m just saying that asking for a paternity test in a relationship will throw up unavoidable issues. There’s no getting away from that. Really, the woman has to agree to it because if she has nothing to hide, she doesn’t have to worry. BUT asking for a paternity test is questioning fidelity. The two can’t be separated. If you are a woman who has never been unfaithful, that’s going to be tough to deal with. I think many relationships wouldn’t weather that storm. Even if your partner confirms that he is the father through the test, the question of why he mistrusted you in the first place would be there.

So I understand the need for paternity testing but if it’s not mandatory, then requesting one won’t be plain-sailing no matter what the result

Exactly. A perfectly reasonable outlook that anyone should be able to understand. And not a single claim that women are perfect.

Suckit · 10-01-2019 9:33pm

I know a guy with 3 kids, and he has CF. Are all CF men infertile? One of his Sons looks like him.

Gimme A Pound · 10-01-2019 9:33pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So, let just assume all mothers are cheating liars and let the government test them accordingly? Do people really see nothing wrong with a society being based on this opinion of women, that we simply can't be trusted, and even being endorsed by the government?

And no it's nothing got to do with "guilt" on my part or whatever nonsense was posted earlier. Im actually scared for my daughter growing up in a world where these kinds of attitudes about women seem to be the norm. Not just this thread, several others full of bile against women. Why not just go full handmaid's tale while we're at it and make women property again. That will solve the (miniscule) problem right?

Anyway, I think I've had enough of the woman haters of boards for today.

God almighty - guilt? For what?

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 10-01-2019 9:34pm

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So, let just assume all mothers are cheating liars and let the government test them accordingly? Do people really see nothing wrong with a society being based on this opinion of women, that we simply can't be trusted, and even being endorsed by the government?

And no it's nothing got to do with "guilt" on my part or whatever nonsense was posted earlier. Im actually scared for my daughter growing up in a world where these kinds of attitudes about women seem to be the norm. Not just this thread, several others full of bile against women. Why not just go full handmaid's tale while we're at it and make women property again. That will solve the (miniscule) problem right?

Anyway, I think I've had enough of the woman haters of boards for today.

Blah blah blah. Hysterical nonsense as usual. Facts don't care about your feelings.

10-01-2019 9:37pm

gctest50 wrote: »

- the mother is a cheating whore

Meh, people have had multiple partners since time began. Monogamy is one of the biggest and most damaging myths knocking around, imo.

This particular case is despicable but I don't think it's all that unusual. Another article from last December https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-46600325

Always has happened, always will happen

Ariadne · 10-01-2019 9:39pm

Suckit wrote: »

I know a guy with 3 kids, and he has CF. Are all CF men infertile? One of his Sons looks like him.

Men with CF can have biological children but they need to have sperm removed from their testicles (called ICSI) and then IVF needs to be done to fertilise an egg. So the success rate is a bit lower than IVF as there is an additional step needed and the cost is quite high too. Men with CF do produce sperm but the vas deferens (tubes) that lead from the testicles to the penis are missing so there isn't any sperm in their semen. I hear they cum a lot less for the ladies who don't like to swallow

the_pen_turner · 10-01-2019 9:44pm

Succubus_ wrote: »

Men with CF can have biological children but they need to have sperm removed from their testicles (called ICSI) and then IVF needs to be done to fertilise an egg. So the success rate is a bit lower than IVF as there is an additional step needed and the cost is quite high too. Men with CF do produce sperm but the vas deferens (tubes) that lead from the testicles to the penis are missing so there isn't any sperm in their semen. I hear they cum a lot less for the ladies who don't like to swallow

talk about a glass half full attitude:D. pardon the pun:eek:

Gimme A Pound · 10-01-2019 9:46pm

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

Blah blah blah. Hysterical nonsense as usual.

Even if ceadaoin's wording is more extreme, she's saying the same thing as Obvious Desperate Breakfasts. She hasn't denied that some women do this.

I don't blame her for being worried about her daughter. There is a backlash against feminism which I agree with, but also an acceptance of some very anti women in general sentiment.

Ariadne · 10-01-2019 9:46pm

So folks I seem to have turned this into an AMA about CF so feel free to ask any questions

Supergurrier · 11-01-2019 1:38am

Suckit · 11-01-2019 2:25am

Would he have any legal claim to getting the £4m back?
Could he sue her? I realise he may not want to, happy to see the back of her. But was just wondering if he could.

Grab All Association · 11-01-2019 2:51am

https://youtu.be/2XCH-TC-jkM

https://www.facebook.com/NC4SP/videos/2090837720961604/

As bad as she is, the above is a lot worse.

Find the BBC One post of this on Facebook and check out the amount of feminists in the comments section actually defending the indefensible.

11-01-2019 6:30am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So, let just assume all mothers are cheating liars and let the government test them accordingly? Do people really see nothing wrong with a society being based on this opinion of women, that we simply can't be trusted, and even being endorsed by the government?

And no it's nothing got to do with "guilt" on my part or whatever nonsense was posted earlier. Im actually scared for my daughter growing up in a world where these kinds of attitudes about women seem to be the norm. Not just this thread, several others full of bile against women. Why not just go full handmaid's tale while we're at it and make women property again. That will solve the (miniscule) problem right?

Anyway, I think I've had enough of the woman haters of boards for today.

It boggles my mind that people like you even exist. Thankfully, not in my world.

flazio · 11-01-2019 6:51am

In my opinion the fact that he wasn't the sperm donor doesn't make him any less their father.
If he did all the dad duties for those kids then that makes him the dad.

judeboy101 · 11-01-2019 7:16am

I smell bull****, how do you go your whole life not knowing you have CF ? And if CF caused infertility then surely the gene would die out as its rarely a point mutation.

Chris_Heilong · 11-01-2019 7:18am

Wow! disgusting, hope he kicks her out on her ass. So many kids that are not his would point to a 'Close friend of the family' was actually with the wife on multiple occasions, which makes it worse in some ways.

ceadaoin. · 11-01-2019 7:19am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It boggles my mind that people like you even exist. Thankfully, not in my world.

And what kind of people would that be? What this woman did is wrong, and amounts to fraud given the amount of money she received. I do not excuse or condone her behaviour in any way. It's disgusting.

Does that mean that every new mother should have to prove that she isn't being deceitful? And that the government should fund this? No, Not in my world. And it will never happen anyway. There are options available now for men who want to confirm paternity if they so wish, why should it be mandatory?

If my husband came to me and asked for a paternity test I would listen to his reasons and consider it, I have nothing to fear. If it was automatically assumed that I was lying about the father of my child and I had to prove otherwise..sorry but f*** that sh!t

Yeah, let's not assume that every woman who has just given birth is a lying cheat and furthermore actually make it government policy. That is also wrong. What's so mind boggling about that?

facehugger99 · 11-01-2019 7:24am

If you haven't any lead in your pencil you shouldn't be surprised if another man draws on your canvas.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 11-01-2019 9:09am

judeboy101 wrote: »

I smell bull****, how do you go your whole life not knowing you have CF ? And if CF caused infertility then surely the gene would die out as its rarely a point mutation.

If a man is carrying one copy of the gene, he won’t have cystic fibrosis, therefore won’t be infertile (unless for some other reason). He’ll just be a carrier. It’s a recessive disease. CF occurs when both parents have a copy of the gene and the foetus receives a copy from each. Two copies of the gene are needed for it to manifest.

ArchXStanton · 11-01-2019 9:48am

This is why there should be mandatory testing at birth for the messed up times we live in

anitaca · 11-01-2019 9:59am

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Except that this puts every man in a "remain ignorant or get dumped" quandry. No win situation.

Projection on my part, apologies. When I typed up my two posts here I was just thinking how utterly devastated I'd be if I found out that I wasn't related to my dad and that his family's long history in Ireland (we have a lot of revolutionaries among our ancestors) was therefore irrelevant to me - that that blood didn't actually run through my veins. Didn't mean to be exclusionary at all, was just thinking about myself.

I don't believe that anything close to a majority of people would betray someone like this, but I do believe that a large enough proportion of human beings are selfish assholes that people should be protected from having their lives destroyed so fundamentally on the off chance that someone in their life happens to be one. Robbing someone of their blood identity is evil beyond belief.

For the record, I also advocate that adopted children should be told that they're adopted from the youngest age that they can understand what it means, to avoid traumatic heartbreak later in life after being misled throughout childhood.

Genetic identity is simply something I do not believe should be left at the mercy of chance or the hope that someone isn't a scumbag. There are enough scumbags in the world that blind faith shouldn't be good enough when it comes to this. Maybe it isn't as important to others as it is to me, but I can't put into words how soul-destroying it would be for me to be told that my family aren't actually my genetic family, and I believe that however small a percentage of people this happens to, it's so awful and soul destroying that it's worth protecting everyone from even the remote possibility of this happening to them. Remove chance from the equation altogether and certify peoples' genetic identity as a matter of scientific fact rather than blind faith.

It is a bit late to certify your genetic history since your dads dad might not be his dad or his dads dads dad might not be his dad....

(not arguing for or against paternity tests)

lawred2 · 11-01-2019 10:04am

josip wrote: »

Fcuking hell. As if being diagnosed with cystic fibrosis wasn't bad enough.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-46827601/the-dad-who-found-out-he-wasn-t-his-kids-biological-father

Not all happy families, 2 of his sons aren't talking to him and have asked why he's making all this public.

what a vile slag

razorblunt · 11-01-2019 10:05am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

How do we know that his wife is the real Mother?

As the say in Scotland, your tartan is your Mother's Family Name not your Father's because you be more assured of her than him!

seamus · 11-01-2019 10:08am

ArchXStanton wrote: »

This is why there should be mandatory testing at birth for the messed up times we live in

Nonsense, the incidence is too low to justify mandatory testing.

The right of the named father to have a DNA test carried out should maybe be protected in law, but indiscriminately paternity testing every baby born is getting into weird gestapo territory.

And this is likely far less common than it used to be; people, women in particular, have more freedom to choose their own partners and end relationships when they're not working. Thus if they feel the need to collect some other guy's beans, they'll just go off with him, they're not trapped in the original relationship.

Captain Chaos · 11-01-2019 10:09am

Deleted User wrote: »

While this is a very sad case, to say that he’s infertile from birth because of Cystic Fibrosis, is alarmist. He may be infertile, but not all CF sufferers are.

Over 97% of men with CF are, but they are not sterile, they can have children with IVF.

Captain Chaos · 11-01-2019 10:13am

judeboy101 wrote: »

I smell bull****, how do you go your whole life not knowing you have CF ?

This aswell,

I thought life expectancy with CF was around 50 max and that is if you have specialist medial care.

Ariadne · 11-01-2019 10:15am

Captain Chaos wrote: »

This aswell,

I thought life expectancy with CF was around 50 max and that is if you have specialist medial care.

I replied to this question earlier in the thread.

Muckka · 11-01-2019 10:19am

Supposedly 20% is the percentage of men who are not the paternal father's to the kids they're raring.

So in potentially 1 in 5 partners are having a little bit on the side.
But they're the one's who get caught.

Imagine what else is going on.

Graces7 · 11-01-2019 10:23am

flazio wrote: »

In my opinion the fact that he wasn't the sperm donor doesn't make him any less their father.
If he did all the dad duties for those kids then that makes him the dad.

was about to post that if no one else did; thank you and yes. More to being a dad than sperm.

Graces7 · 11-01-2019 10:23am

Muckka wrote: »

Supposedly 20% is the percentage of men who are not the paternal father's to the kids they're raring.

So in potentially 1 in 5 partners are having a little bit on the side.
But they're the one's who get caught.

Imagine what else is going on.

No thank you...

josip · 11-01-2019 10:25am

Muckka wrote: »

Supposedly 20% is the percentage of men who are not the paternal father's to the kids they're raring.

So in potentially 1 in 5 partners are having a little bit on the side.
But they're the one's who get caught.

Imagine what else is going on.

It's only 20% among fathers who are suspicious and test.
It's a lot lower than 20% normally.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_fraud

RacoonQueen · 11-01-2019 10:26am

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

Typical emotional blackmail. It should be mandatory to DNA test both people involved to avoid these scenarios. Typical boards response though.

Bullsh*t. I'd be fu*king disgusted if I was seeing someone and was pregnant and he didn't believe the child was his because it fu*king would be his. It is not emotional blackmail to be hurt by an accusation that you cheated on someone you love when you didn't. You can't build a further relationship on the idea that they didn't trust you, not could you fully trust them. The fact you actually got thanks for that post, is a typical boards response though.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yeah, it’s a weird one. I’ve no children so this is all hypothetical but if my husband asked for a paternity test, I’d agree without hesitation - nothing to hide and all - but it would change our relationship for sure. I’d just think he didn’t trust me. And I realise a lot is at stake but it would definitely change the relationship dynamic.

Yep and it would make me question him. I'd wonder if he was cheating then. So relationship dynamic definitely would change.

Riskymove · 11-01-2019 10:31am

josip wrote: »

How could the king be sure he and his sister had the same biological father?

I think it is more that everyone knew the woman was 100% the mother

and you knew who her mother was and her mother before her and so on

so all the mothers were Queens or Princesses at the time

no one could guarantee who the father was

Muckka · 11-01-2019 10:33am

I blame those men who are willing to sleep with women who have partners.

It's not the women's fault at all.
She was probably going through a bad patch at the time, and her husband or boyfriend wasn't being supportive.

So she was vunerable and some guy took advantage of her emotional state and she ended up falling into his arms and experienced an impulse of a surge of oxitocin and it wasn't her fault she was in the love zone.

It's the man's fault if his lover strays, not her fault at all

11-01-2019 10:37am

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Bullsh*t. I'd be fu*king disgusted if I was seeing someone and was pregnant and he didn't believe the child was his because it fu*king would be his. It is not emotional blackmail to be hurt by an accusation that you cheated on someone you love when you didn't. You can't build a further relationship on the idea that they didn't trust you, not could you fully trust them. The fact you actually got thanks for that post, is a typical boards response though.

Yep and it would make me question him. I'd wonder if he was cheating then. So relationship dynamic definitely would change.

every time anyone gets tested for something do you describe it as a presumption that they have it?

if there was a test to 99.9% verify if a man was cheating would you defend a woman using it if it were an "invest twenty years of your life" juncture?

its nice that people are pulling out the "biology is only a part of fatherhood" softener, but we shiuld be clear- that's a lovely sentiment for a fella who has knowingly raised another man's children as his own, its patronising bolloçks to say it to a fella who has been used in this fashion unbeknownst to himself.

ohnonotgmail · 11-01-2019 10:39am

Muckka wrote: »

I blame those men who are willing to sleep with women who have partners.

It's not the women's fault at all.
She was probably going through a bad patch at the time, and her husband or boyfriend wasn't being supportive.

So she was vunerable and some guy took advantage of her emotional state and she ended up falling into his arms and experienced an impulse of a surge of oxitocin and it wasn't her fault she was in the love zone.

It's the man's fault if his lover strays, not her fault at all

Sweet sufferin jaysus.

11-01-2019 10:41am

id treat that like the wide-cast net it is and swim right by it tbh

speckled_park · 11-01-2019 10:43am

Muckka wrote: »

I blame those men who are willing to sleep with women who have partners.

It's not the women's fault at all.
She was probably going through a bad patch at the time, and her husband or boyfriend wasn't being supportive.

So she was vunerable and some guy took advantage of her emotional state and she ended up falling into his arms and experienced an impulse of a surge of oxitocin and it wasn't her fault she was in the love zone.

It's the man's fault if his lover strays, not her fault at all

lol

0cp71eyxkb94qf · 11-01-2019 10:45am

Muckka wrote: »

I blame those men who are willing to sleep with women who have partners.

It's not the women's fault at all.
She was probably going through a bad patch at the time, and her husband or boyfriend wasn't being supportive.

So she was vunerable and some guy took advantage of her emotional state and she ended up falling into his arms and experienced an impulse of a surge of oxitocin and it wasn't her fault she was in the love zone.

It's the man's fault if his lover strays, not her fault at all

You are doing women a disservice with this type of attitude as you're making out they're incapable of controlling their emotions.

Muckka · 11-01-2019 10:58am

Avalyn Scarce Gear wrote: »

You are doing women a disservice with this type of attitude as you're making out they're incapable of controlling their emotions.

Do our emotions control us or do we control our emotions ?

I often wonder about that.

My comment was an observation not a judgement.

Sorry if I offended anyone, it wasn't my intention.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 11-01-2019 11:07am

Deleted User wrote: »

every time anyone gets tested for something do you describe it as a presumption that they have it?

if there was a test to 99.9% verify if a man was cheating would you defend a woman using it if it were an "invest twenty years of your life" juncture?

its nice that people are pulling out the "biology is only a part of fatherhood" softener, but we shiuld be clear- that's a lovely sentiment for a fella who has knowingly raised another man's children as his own, its patronising bolloçks to say it to a fella who has been used in this fashion unbeknownst to himself.

Well, people generally usually just get tests if there are indicative symptoms. There’s are exceptions, such as mammograms after 50 for all women and screening for other cancers in older people because the incidence increases with age. But generally, if someone is sent for testing, there will be supporting reasons. Docs do not send people willy nilly for scans, sometimes even with indicative symptoms. Believe me, this is something with which I am intimately acquainted.

So, willy nilly paternity testing seems unlikely at birth unless they can make it a very cheap and easy process.

Wibbs · 11-01-2019 11:17am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Sweet sufferin jaysus.

"It's not the woman's fault at all". Yep I think we can all agree that's crazy stuff, but in the dafter regions of mainstream feminism that's not a particularly odd thing to think or say. It's quite common in fact. The "women are agentless victims and men are to blame" credo again.

ohnonotgmail · 11-01-2019 11:20am

Wibbs wrote: »

"It's not the woman's fault at all". Yep I think we can all agree that's crazy stuff, but in the dafter regions of mainstream feminism that's not a particularly odd thing to think or say. It's quite common in fact. The "women are agentless victims and men are to blame" credo again.

I dont think "women are helpless in the presence of men and are hostages to their emotions" is quite part of current feminist theory.

11-01-2019 11:25am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, people generally usually just get tests if there are indicative symptoms. There’s are exceptions, such as mammograms after 50 for all women and screening for other cancers in older people because the incidence increases with age. But generally, if someone is sent for testing, there will be supporting reasons. Docs do not send people willy nilly for scans, sometimes even with indicative symptoms. Believe me, this is something with which I am intimately acquainted.

So, willy nilly paternity testing seems unlikely at birth unless they can make it a very cheap and easy process.

yes but you didnt answer the question you bolded

there are obvious junctures- in most long term, expensive and involved ventures, not just medical- where verification of fundamentals seems a logical and sensible step without it being an accusation of anything.

if a court in a given jurisdiction would not return every cent this woman has thieved from this man- not to mention the emotional distress she has caused him and her children- then the corollary of safeguarding in advance suggests itself

joe40 · 11-01-2019 11:29am

Muckka wrote: »

Supposedly 20% is the percentage of men who are not the paternal father's to the kids they're raring.

So in potentially 1 in 5 partners are having a little bit on the side.
But they're the one's who get caught.

Imagine what else is going on.

Does this 20% include fathers who are with women that have kids from a previous relationship but the biological father is not on the scene any more.

I don't believe the stat is anywhere near 20% of men raring kids that are not biologically theirs - without their knowledge.

That is a bull**** statistic I would love to see a source.

hatrickpatrick · 11-01-2019 11:29am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Looking at it in a dispassionate, theoretical way, it’s easy to say “What’s the problem?” but think about the ramifications within relationships. Like I said in another post, if my husband wanted to confirm paternity of his child, I would agree to it without hesitation. But let’s not pretend it wouldn’t leave questions hanging in the air. Asking for a paternity test is inextricably questioning the fidelity of the woman in the relationship. If you’ve never been unfaithful, that’s tough to swallow. Your character is being tested and questioned.

That's exactly why I'm saying it should be automatic, to avoid this. Fundamentally, I don't believe that any human being is 100% trustworthy. I've been f*cked over often enough by people close to me who I genuinely trusted that I just don't believe in blind faith anymore. Performing these tests as a standard part of post-natal care eliminates that entire problem from the equation. Otherwise, like I said, every man has a choice between paternal certainty or his relationship. Doesn't seem remotely fair to me.

hatrickpatrick · 11-01-2019 11:33am

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So, let just assume all mothers are cheating liars and let the government test them accordingly?

No, let's assume that all human beings are inherently dishonest on some level, and that this issue is too important to establish based on a human being's word alone.

Dad finds out that none of his kids are biologically his.

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