Bowman Palace plan

fat bloke · 22-03-2019 12:17pm #1

So a little idea has been germinating in my idle mind for a little while-een, and perhaps some of you would like to wade in on it.

I've a 2013 Cervelo R5 from new that only sees sun and is properly mint as a result, but I'd like a change from it. I don't have the cash for another top end carbon frame, and I don't know that it'd be that different anyway, but I've been keen to try a top aloominum frame for a while and they are much much more affordable.

So - I'm thinking - strip the Cervelo, hang on to the frame and forks for another build on another day, and build up a Bowman Palace R. - I'm talking superlight and stupendously reliable, 10-speed SRAM red, 3t aero carbon bars and stem, and mavic ksyrium exalith SLRs. -Top stuff in other words.

Is it a silly idea? I don't do any racing, I do do a lot of climbing. It'll be heavier, but it'll be different, I imagine it'll be stiffer and racier than the Cervelo. It's not mad money, and it's not a big financial gamble or depreciation risk like a new 4 grand big name carbon frame would be. If for some reason it's pants then I can put the Cervelo back together again and sell the Palace easily, or use it for an alternative build.

I suppose I'm intrigued first of all to see what the Palace R is like in and of itself, and also how it compares to a frame 5 times its cost.

Alternatively of course (for similar money) I could buy a used fully built up ultegra spec caad12 that will answer a lot of those questions, with a lot less messing around. But to my mind the palace does have an added cachet (and threaded BB) that trumps the CAAD.... (does it?)

Whatchy'all fink?

joey100 · 22-03-2019 12:41pm

I done something similar. Had a cannondale supersix evo, stripped it, sold it and bought a Specialized Allez sprint. Built it up with all top end stuff, fulcrum racing nite, etap, zipp carbon bars. I don't know the weight but it feels light. I love it, I did like the cannondale, like you I just fancied a change. But a top alu frame is lovely. The only thing I find with it, 3/4 days in a row on it or if the surface is particularly bad they can be a bit rough. It's something I never really noticed on some of my other bikes but they can be a bit rougher on the body. But I still wouldn't change it, usually I swap my bikes round a bit but it's the one I can't see myself ever moving on. Bowman palace was on my list I was looking at too. Meant to be a great bike.

Plastik · 22-03-2019 12:52pm

I built up a Palace R with Ultegra for a friend a while back. His other steed is a Basso Diamante decked out in DA. We're doing 160k/3000m tomorrow and his bike of choice is the R. I don't know if that answers anything in particular but sure its a nice little anecdote anyway.

FWIW if I ever had to retire my CAAD10 I'd be all over the Palace R in a flash.

fat bloke · 22-03-2019 1:03pm

Cheers lads, all OP's ever really want from such threads is affirmation so good stuff so far:).

Two questions Plastik. What's the 160 route, and any idea how a 12 differs from a 10? - I thought twas a caad12 you had

(I've pencilled in an Orwell Randonnee approximation for the morning, weather permitting! )

Plastik · 22-03-2019 1:21pm

CAAD10 v 12 - 10 has external cable routing, marginally different geometry, and slightly different tube shaping. They're very similar TBH. With the internal cabling on the 12 though it means that you can't press-in a threaded sleeve to the BB shell to convert it to BSA. You have to use one of the more expensive BB30 conversion options.

fat bloke · 22-03-2019 2:43pm

Cheers Plastik. I'd love to but I've a date made with my own band of merry men. We might see ye on the road though. We head out early (7.30) plan is to go Brittas, Featherbeds, and Randonee route from there (Powerscourt, Djouce, Lugalla, Sally, Laragh, Wicklow gap, big lakes, and I've a strong suspicion that by Manor Kilbride we'll chicken out for home rather than doing the Wicklow gap again). But we'll be stationary in Laragh supping Clodagh's finest coffee for a bit for sure if ye happen to amble by!

I spotted a green Bowman PR a few weeks back in Laragh. Wouldn't be my colour of choice now I have to say, was a bit Kermit the Frog. But a nice looking bike, and the stem fairly slammed fair play to the flexibility of the owner.

Crocked · 22-03-2019 3:12pm

I built up a Palace R last year but have only gotten out on it a handful of times. Built up, if I recall correctly, it came in near as be dammed the same weight as my canyon CF . Now I had some non-stock heavier parts on the Canyon so it was running a bit heavier than stock.

The Palace also feels a very similar ride to the Canyon and can't say I've noticed any discernible difference if stiffness or reaction to inputs.

I don't have lot of outdoor riding done in the last 8 months, so my view may change in the coming weeks when I get more time back on both of them

Your welcome to take a test spin if you'd like to try it out

CantGetNoSleep · 22-03-2019 3:53pm

I'm starting a new CAAD12 build tomorrow so fully support this plan!

fat bloke · 22-03-2019 4:15pm

Crocked wrote: »

Your welcome to take a test spin if you'd like to try it out

I'd love a look at least. Any pics here on the site or anything?

Oberkon · 22-03-2019 5:56pm

Crocked wrote: »

I built up a Palace R last year but have only gotten out on it a handful of times. Built up, if I recall correctly, it came in near as be dammed the same weight as my canyon CF . Now I had some non-stock heavier parts on the Canyon so it was running a bit heavier than stock.

The Palace also feels a very similar ride to the Canyon and can't say I've noticed any discernible difference if stiffness or reaction to inputs.

I don't have lot of outdoor riding done in the last 8 months, so my view may change in the coming weeks when I get more time back on both of them

Your welcome to take a test spin if you'd like to try it out

What size palace did you get ? Thinking of buying a 54. Had the chance to buy the bright green one but prefer the black and jade .

Crocked · 22-03-2019 6:23pm

fat bloke wrote: »

I'd love a look at least. Any pics here on the site or anything?

Not to hand but I'll get a couple up over the weekend

eeeee · 22-03-2019 7:37pm

I fully support palace r plans. They're class.
They're on the severe want list

sin_26 · 22-03-2019 8:29pm

Palace have less clearance than caad12
Geometry is fairly similar.
Found Cadd12 suits me better but Bowman is not bad either. Hard to say what it is but I have that feeling that brains tells to cycle faster and faster unlike bowman but it's obviously something in my head

.

Alexzont · 22-03-2019 11:55pm

fat bloke wrote: »

Cheers Plastik. I'd love to but I've a date made with my own band of merry men. We might see ye on the road though. We head out early (7.30) plan is to go Brittas, Featherbeds, and Randonee route from there (Powerscourt, Djouce, Lugalla, Sally, Laragh, Wicklow gap, big lakes, and I've a strong suspicion that by Manor Kilbride we'll chicken out for home rather than doing the Wicklow gap again). But we'll be stationary in Laragh supping Clodagh's finest coffee for a bit for sure if ye happen to amble by!

I spotted a green Bowman PR a few weeks back in Laragh. Wouldn't be my colour of choice now I have to say, was a bit Kermit the Frog. But a nice looking bike, and the stem fairly slammed fair play to the flexibility of the owner.

Ha, that was myself. The first thing people always mention is the colour for better or worse...

Here it is with campy a year or two ago https://photos.app.goo.gl/B87LMA8YFye4Tnen8

I also have the Bowman Pilgrims for doing gravel around Wicklow. Cracking bike as well.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/p7cJXFTdQf5YV3Tu5

Crocked · 23-03-2019 10:10pm

Pic from last summer seems to be the only one I have, Should be able to get one or two tomorrow closer up

Crocked · 23-03-2019 10:15pm

Keep an eye on their instagram account, they have some low run colour options they announce there from time to time. Did a lovely silver and black one a few weeks ago

bsb1971 · 15-06-2019 10:38am

Just stumbled across this thread now. I'm in the process of putting the parts together for an aluminium build, as yet no frame. Can't decide between the bowman palace or caad12 - have found some good deals on caad12 frames. Any thoughts, advice anyone can share? I've read that the bowman is not great for 25mm tyre clearance. Is this true? I see you can get the bowman palace in a blue orange colour now as well. All comments appreciated!

Trekker09 · 15-06-2019 11:17am

Oberkon wrote: »

What size palace did you get ? Thinking of buying a 54. Had the chance to buy the bright green one but prefer the black and jade .

They had a nice blue and orange colour when I was looking at them a few weeks back

https://bowman-cycles.com/products/bowman-palace-r-frameset

Trekker09 · 15-06-2019 11:20am

bsb1971 wrote: »

Just stumbled across this thread now. I'm in the process of putting the parts together for an aluminium build, as yet no frame. Can't decide between the bowman palace or caad12 - have found some good deals on caad12 frames. Any thoughts, advice anyone can share? I've read that the bowman is not great for 25mm tyre clearance. Is this true? I see you can get the bowman palace in a blue orange colour now as well. All comments appreciated!

AS far as I know the newer version is fine for 25mm

Borderfox · 15-06-2019 11:24am

bsb1971 wrote: »

Just stumbled across this thread now. I'm in the process of putting the parts together for an aluminium build, as yet no frame. Can't decide between the bowman palace or caad12 - have found some good deals on caad12 frames. Any thoughts, advice anyone can share? I've read that the bowman is not great for 25mm tyre clearance. Is this true? I see you can get the bowman palace in a blue orange colour now as well. All comments appreciated!

I bought a caad12 105 in February of this year and even with 8 weeks off the bike with a back injury the bottom bracket is creaking now. I was out on it on Sunday and it was 76km of creak. Nice bike though and goes plenty fast, will have to stick a rotor bb in if it's doesn't shut up

Trekker09 · 15-06-2019 11:26am

FWIW I'm in the middle of an alu build. Rose Xeon frameset with SRAM Force22. 3T finishing kit and wheels TBC.

I posted it on another thread, but CRC have amazing deals on 3T. Got bars, stem, seat post, bar tape, front derailleur adaptor and Look Keo for just over the €100 mark!

Plastik · 15-06-2019 1:13pm

Re deals on CAAD12's, there's a 13 out later this month - so you may find better deals on the 12 at some stage, or wait for the new frame.

fat bloke · 15-06-2019 3:01pm

Well I never did any of the things I said I'd do. Would still love to but, I haven't seen any stupendous deals on CAAD's in my size and they're quite colour sensitive - can look great or sh1te depending on the colour scheme.

Not sure about the new orange Palace R meself

joey100 · 15-06-2019 3:54pm

The specialized allez dsw is worth a look too. Another good alu frameset. Colours change regularly enough too, a lot of limited editions.

CantGetNoSleep · 15-06-2019 4:14pm

fat bloke wrote: »

Well I never did any of the things I said I'd do. Would still love to but, I haven't seen any stupendous deals on CAAD's in my size and they're quite colour sensitive - can look great or sh1te depending on the colour scheme.

Not sure about the new orange Palace R meself

I'm in the middle of a CAAD12 Ultegra disc build (well I say in the middle of, I bought all the main components earlier in the year and they are sitting at the end of a room since, just need cables etc.)

I got the frame including fork and seatpost for 550€ new from a LBS. Only issue was that it has one post mount and one flat mount disc caliper although thankfully they had left one on when stripping it - think it is the 2016 model. Also a neon yellow colour which wasn't my first choice but it will be my winter bike so I'll get over it. Also got the 3t components quite cheaply on CRC Trekker mentions above, Aksium wheels, cheap Ultegra derailleurs from Germany and a set of RS505 shifters new on a second hand side. Not going to be much over 1000€ for the full build - assuming I can get it done myself, probably shouldn't have gone hydraulic disc for a first build.

fat bloke · 15-06-2019 4:29pm

God, that'd be a bargain ultegra build for a grand.

There are two nice CAAD's on donedeal/adverts. A lovely dark green ultegra, and a (not as lovely) lime green dura ace build

JimmiesRustled · 15-06-2019 4:51pm

Borderfox wrote: »

I bought a caad12 105 in February of this year and even with 8 weeks off the bike with a back injury the bottom bracket is creaking now. I was out on it on Sunday and it was 76km of creak. Nice bike though and goes plenty fast, will have to stick a rotor bb in if it's doesn't shut up

With regards the creaking, a small bit of loctite 609 or 641 around the outer race will fix that. Unless you've really cheap bearings the issue is the frame. Even with really cheap bearings the issue will most likely be the frame. The BB area is machined on one side first then flipped and machined on the other side leading to tolerance issues which in turn can lead to creaking.

bsb1971 · 16-06-2019 6:46pm

Well the space of a few days my plans have changed too lol. I've got myself an sram red 10 speed mini group set, and also bought a force 22 group set on eBay......bargains! Have all the finishing kit, don't have a sram crankset so using an ultegra crank or da 7800 crank. May have abandoned the caad or bowman too, bought a specialized e5 aerotec, old frame but in excellent nick. Will change the forks though. All fun and games lol. Also have a line on an old litespeed Sirius, so the caad frame price cash has gone on one, possibly two builds. I have a lot of stuff to get rid of though, so will be selling bits soon methinks!

fat bloke · 06-01-2020 10:13am

Crocked wrote: »

Pic from last summer seems to be the only one I have, Should be able to get one or two tomorrow closer up

Thread and build revival! - Bowman have a winter sale on and a new frame model release, but it's disc only which I have no interest in. So I've ordered a Black/Jade frameset!

I'll start with the most important bits - matching bar tape

. Where did you get yours Crocked? It looks well.

fat bloke · 07-01-2020 2:29pm

I dunno if this thread has been left stagnant too long, that it's gone cold. But I'd appreciate a bit of stylistic input for my soon-to-be-new build.

So that plan, as I said day one, was to use a 10 speed Sram Red groupset from an older bike, because.... reasons. Lots of reasons. It's there, available to me, not being used, in perfect nick and it's the cheapest option. It's also a fabulous groupset to use and stupendously robust and reliable, and super-light. I love it.

I also have a choice of wheelsets to scavenge. Either mavic ksysrium SLS's or posher still exalith Ksyrium SLR's.

I have a saddle that'll do but I'll probably need bars and possibly stem. The predominant donor bike is my wife's old one so her handlebars are too narrow for me, but the stem might be alright.

First Question: - Would you stick carbon or aluminium bars on an aluminium build and what are the likely repercussions or compromises of either? Would I be right in saying carbon might be a bit more pliable. I'm presuming the Palace R frame to be fairly stiff and racy. Though any aluminium frame I've ever ridden was generally a nice compliant ride.

Plastik · 07-01-2020 3:23pm

Fab bikes, what size did you go for? My bro picked up a orange/teal frame back around black Friday.

Bars .. carbon will reduce some road buzz. I've alu on all my bikes, but maybe born from racing and worrying about potential cracks or delamination on carbon bars after any crashes.

fat bloke · 07-01-2020 3:32pm

Plastik wrote: »

Fab bikes, what size did you go for? My bro picked up a orange/teal frame back around black Friday.

Bars .. carbon will reduce some road buzz. I've alu on all my bikes, but maybe born from racing and worrying about potential cracks or delimitation on carbon bars after any crashes.

I got the classic black and jade/celeste/cyan (whatever you want to call it). I don't like the green much and I already have an orange and grey frame in the TCR.

I'd imagine the Alu bars would be a bit stiffer would they? Past bikes of mine with wide-ish carbon bars have been a bit wobbly when you're swinging outta the drops. Not the nicest sensation. Alu certainly cheaper too.

Recommend a nice set of aluminium bars with a nice old-man-friendly compact drop and reach?

MojoMaker · 07-01-2020 4:54pm

Zipp service course SL?

3T Ergonova Pro?

Have a slight preference for the 3T kit myself - stems more interesting, but yeah depends on the rothar.

Trekker09 · 07-01-2020 5:43pm

fat bloke wrote: »

I got the classic black and jade/celeste/cyan (whatever you want to call it). I don't like the green much and I already have an orange and grey frame in the TCR.

I'd imagine the Alu bars would be a bit stiffer would they? Past bikes of mine with wide-ish carbon bars have been a bit wobbly when you're swinging outta the drops. Not the nicest sensation. Alu certainly cheaper too.

Recommend a nice set of aluminium bars with a nice old-man-friendly compact drop and reach?

Have a set of brand spanking new, in the box, never even seen the light of day Fizik R5 bars that I'll let go at a good discount

fat bloke · 07-01-2020 8:04pm

Trekker09 wrote: »

Have a set of brand spanking new, in the box, never even seen the light of day Fizik R5 bars that I'll let go at a good discount

Cool. What's the craic? Model, size, drop, width, compact?

Edit

Actually just looking up the R5 there, they'd be a bit entry level, I'd probably shell out a bit for something posher. This build is leaning towards "good bike" rather than mere trainer.

Trekker09 · 08-01-2020 1:22am

fat bloke wrote: »

Cool. What's the craic? Model, size, drop, width, compact?

Edit

Actually just looking up the R5 there, they'd be a bit entry level, I'd probably shell out a bit for something posher. This build is leaning towards "good bike" rather than mere trainer.

Made a mistake, they're the R3 42CM Bull 80X139MM

fat bloke · 08-01-2020 9:20am

Ah. OK. Lemme suss em out. How much you asking? You're not in Dublin, sure you're not?

They might be the job T09. My other two bikes are 42 and 44. I didn't know that there was a difference til I went to measure yesterday so 42 is fine.

Trekker09 · 08-01-2020 9:23am

fat bloke wrote: »

Ah. OK. Lemme suss em out. How much you asking? You're not in Dublin, sure you're not?

I paid around 70 for them but i think you can get better deals now. Up in Dublin Sunday week but could send by DPD if suitable.

fat bloke · 08-01-2020 9:44am

Trekker09 wrote: »

I paid around 70 for them but i think you can get better deals now. Up in Dublin Sunday week but could send by DPD if suitable.

Sunday week could well work for me. Postage might be dear would it, boxed bars are bulky enough.

They're on sale a lot of places at the minute, but not in stock everywhere. Wiggle have Bull 42's for €61 and Merlin for €58.

Offer 40 quid?

joey100 · 08-01-2020 11:17am

I know your already looking at other bars, but just on carbon bars an alu frame. My allez dsw has carbon zipps bars and a carbon seat post too, does it make it anymore comfortable? I'm not sure, it's definitely the harshest of my bikes, all others are carbon. Never rode it with alu bars but not sure they would make it any tougher to be honest. Zipp bars with the 70 after them tend to be short reach and low drop, I find them very comfortable. Shorter reach can mean you have a longer stem too and that always looks good.

Crocked · 08-01-2020 11:18am

Just saw this pop up again now. The bar tape I put on originally was Cinelli Cork handlebar tape from Merlin. I don't have it on it any more. I put some black canyon bar tape on when I changed bars as the cinellii stuff tore when taking it off the original bars. I have been meaning to get some more celeste tape though.

I have a set of Canyon alu bars on it now and I don't find any problems with road vibrations. Saying that I have been toying with putting aero carbon bars on it, something like the Pro Vibe.

Be interested to see what bars you go with.

sin_26 · 08-01-2020 11:27am

fat bloke wrote: »

Ah. OK. Lemme suss em out. How much you asking? You're not in Dublin, sure you're not?

They might be the job T09. My other two bikes are 42 and 44. I didn't know that there was a difference til I went to measure yesterday so 42 is fine.

Did you measured your bars at the hoods? R3 have flared drops so 42cm will have 40 at hoods. If you want 42cm at hoods you need 44cm size.
About best handlebars my vote goes to FSA Energy Compact 80mm reach and 128mm drop gives very relaxed bars. Keep in mind that drops are flared as well so you might need 44-46cm to get 42-44cm at the hoods respectable.

fat bloke · 09-01-2020 9:45am

sin_26 wrote: »

Did you measured your bars at the hoods? R3 have flared drops so 42cm will have 40 at hoods. If you want 42cm at hoods you need 44cm size.
About best handlebars my vote goes to FSA Energy Compact 80mm reach and 128mm drop gives very relaxed bars. Keep in mind that drops are flared as well so you might need 44-46cm to get 42-44cm at the hoods respectable.

Are you sure about that? It says this on Merlin cycles:

"Fi’zi:k handlebars widths are measured centre-to-centre ‘on the tops’ (behind where the STIs are attached to the bar). They are NOT measured centre-to-centre ‘on the drops’ (between the centre of each bar plug)."

So based on that 42 should fit me.

Plastik · 09-01-2020 10:25am

Yeah, the Fizik bar isn't flared. I've the R3 Snake on my SuperSix.

fat bloke · 09-01-2020 2:07pm

Trekker09 wrote: »

I paid around 70 for them but i think you can get better deals now. Up in Dublin Sunday week but could send by DPD if suitable.

fat bloke wrote: »

Sunday week could well work for me. Postage might be dear would it, boxed bars are bulky enough.

They're on sale a lot of places at the minute, but not in stock everywhere. Wiggle have Bull 42's for €61 and Merlin for €58.

Offer 40 quid?

I hope I haven't insulted you with my offer Trekker:o. You might get back to me on it please. Frame arrived yesterday so I'll be .... gettin' mah build on.

Trekker09 · 09-01-2020 2:22pm

fat bloke wrote: »

I hope I haven't insulted you with my offer Trekker:o. You might get back to me on it please. Frame arrived yesterday so I'll be .... gettin' mah build on.

Apologies, only seeing this notification now!

Will take 45 as I won't use them as I've just procured a new BMC SLR01 & Canyon Ultimate, so no builds for me on the horizon

It would be Sunday week before I get up to Dublin.

fat bloke · 09-01-2020 2:29pm

Trekker09 wrote: »

Apologies, only seeing this notification now!

Will take 45 as I won't use them as I've just procured a new BMC SLR01 & Canyon Ultimate, so no builds for me on the horizon

It would be Sunday week before I get up to Dublin.

Sweeeet! I'll take the bars and you presuming it's a 56 (and not disc?) you might put my name on a post-it on the BMC for 2022

Trekker09 · 09-01-2020 3:43pm

fat bloke wrote: »

Sweeeet! I'll take the bars and you presuming it's a 56 (and not disc?) you might put my name on a post-it on the BMC for 2022

Even my wife loves the look of the BMC!! 1st time using DA9100 and am well impressed. Rim brakes FTW

eeeee · 09-01-2020 9:34pm

fat_bloke we're gonna need pics of the Bowman.
One of the loveliest road bikes out there IMO. I've wanted one ever since they came out.
Some day...

fat bloke · 10-01-2020 12:00am

25% off at the mo. Frameset landed for less than 700 quid!

MojoMaker · 10-01-2020 9:13am

Palace:R?

Faptastic.

Bowman Palace plan

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