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Bowman Palace plan
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Dá fhada an lá, tagann an oíche.
Joe Biden's waited as long for his new gaff as I have for this Jaysus bike. Let's hope neither disappoint...
From the ol living-room heft-test it feels a touch lighter than my Canyon Aeroad, which I consider to be pretty light in itself. But it's a lovely frame with some delightful details that reward a closer lingering examination. The colour is cool and the green writing and patterns are lovely, as are the little purple bands. It's deadly.
Props to Dara Bee Cycles for building it (again) and hardly charging me at all this second time.
Just in time for a forecast week of rain and snow eh?!
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Dá fhada an lá, tagann an oíche.
Joe Biden's waited as long for his new gaff as I have for this Jaysus bike. Let's hope neither disappoint...
From the ol living-room heft-test it feels a touch lighter than my Canyon Aeroad, which I consider to be pretty light in itself. But it's a lovely frame with some delightful details that reward a closer lingering examination. The colour is cool and the green writing and patterns are lovely, as are the little purple bands. It's deadly.
Props to Dara Bee Cycles for building it (again) and hardly charging me at all this second time.
Just in time for a forecast week of rain and snow eh?!
Lovely job and enjoy. I've followed this thread from day one and in fairness to you you've the patience of job.
Love the colour.0 -
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Thanks all for the kind words. I'm very happy with the bike and had a very pleasant 50k (within my 5k limit) shake-down spin this afternoon. No wheel rubbing disasters like the first gen frame.
The bike is exactly what I wanted. I already have a top end light-weight carbon frame that stands me nothing cos I have it so long (nearly 8 years now) and a fabulous aero carbon frame that I got a super deal on second-hand and it stupendously good to ride. The Bowman, I suppose it's fair to say, represents the best of aluminium frame design and manufacturing and it's very different to the bikes I already have. It absolutely rides like an alooominum frame. It's springy and lively and has its own blend of stiffness and compliance that is really nice to ride and different enough from the other bikes to make it interesting.
Of course the finishing kit I have on it would bring the best out of ANY frame. It's top class stuff and I was fortunate to have it lying around unused from other bikes. The wheels are Mavic Ksyrium Exalith SLR's I bought new in 2012 and they were fair-weather Sunday shoes for my good bike so, while they've been used, they've been really well minded and have years riding left in them yet. The Sram Red is a 10 speed groupset, also bought in 2012. A spectacular collection of mechanical gear-changin wizardy! It was on my wife's bike and saw a lot more riding, training and racing, but sure what wears out in a groupset - cassettes, brake blocks, bottom brackets and cables have all been refreshed many times. The rest of it is in super nick. I do have the original chainset which I had on the first aborted Palace frame, but lockdown up-and-down-the-hill repeat-riding is less pleasant than necessary on a 39:53 and a 27 at the back (which I believe is the most the red derailleur will accommodate) so I shelled out for a compact chainset. Couldn't find a ten speed one anywhere for any money, so I went with the Red 22. I could have cheapened out there but fcuk it I figured I'd always look at a heavier and cheaper chainset with a furrowed brow and wish I'd stretched the budget.
So if I had to buy all that stuff, the build would make no sense whatsoever. A pair of those wheels now is 1800 quid, sram red can't be bought anywhere so you'd have to go etap or axs, or dura ace as an equivalent. That's another 1200 at least and only if you're lucky with it in-stock and on-sale.
Outta my pocket if I do the maths on it - the frame cost me about 700 quid, the chainset was 330 quid (!). I bought bars for 45 euro from Trekker here on boards, the Fizik cyrano r1 stem was about 55 quid from chainreaction, a fizik cyrano r3 seatpost was 75 from chainreaction. Lizard skin bar take was about 30 quid. Elite bottle cages - I dunno, 30 quid for 2? I can't remember. And I paid 250 quid total getting it built - that was two builds, the old frame and the new one and both times there were a couple of little extras like cabling inners or outers and actually there might even have been a bottom bracket in that as well. Oh yeah and the saddle is a Romin Pro evo (I think) - again, something I didn't have to buy 'cos it was a hand-me-down from another bike in the house.
So that's a total of €1,515. Which is of course a fantastic price for such a bike, but obviously if I had to buy all the bits like wheels and groupset, tyres and saddle (which I did in a way of course, I did buy them! but years ago) then it's knocking on the door of a 5 grand bike all day long:eek:. That would be bananas, obviously.
I did giggle to myself going around today though, thinking about my old retro-relic of a new bike. Threaded BB. Rim brakes. Aluminium frame. Wheels that have tubes (chooobs!!!) in them. Tyres that were only 25mm wide. A groupset with only ten gears. :pac::D. And yet I was able to go and stop and turn and climb and descend and the brakes worked and the air even stayed in the tyres!
Anyway, she got dirty today so the seal is broken and hopefully I'll be able to rack up some miles and maybe even show it off outside Clodagh's in Laragh some day before the summer if we're allowed.
Love the Palace disc Philten. How did your build cost compare to Bowman's own complete-bike offerings now?0 -
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I had exactly the same discussion with a club mate on a ride last year about having all the newest tech vs. something light that just works or can be fixed easily.Thanks all for the kind words. I'm very happy with the bike and had a very pleasant 50k (within my 5k limit) shake-down spin this afternoon. No wheel rubbing disasters like the first gen frame.
The bike is exactly what I wanted. I already have a top end light-weight carbon frame that stands me nothing cos I have it so long (nearly 8 years now) and a fabulous aero carbon frame that I got a super deal on second-hand and it stupendously good to ride. The Bowman, I suppose it's fair to say, represents the best of aluminium frame design and manufacturing and it's very different to the bikes I already have. It absolutely rides like an alooominum frame. It's springy and lively and has its own blend of stiffness and compliance that is really nice to ride and different enough from the other bikes to make it interesting.
Of course the finishing kit I have on it would bring the best out of ANY frame. It's top class stuff and I was fortunate to have it lying around unused from other bikes. The wheels are Mavic Ksyrium Exalith SLR's I bought new in 2012 and they were fair-weather Sunday shoes for my good bike so, while they've been used, they've been really well minded and have years riding left in them yet. The Sram Red is a 10 speed groupset, also bought in 2012. A spectacular collection of mechanical gear-changin wizardy! It was on my wife's bike and saw a lot more riding, training and racing, but sure what wears out in a groupset - cassettes, brake blocks, bottom brackets and cables have all been refreshed many times. The rest of it is in super nick. I do have the original chainset which I had on the first aborted Palace frame, but lockdown up-and-down-the-hill repeat-riding is less pleasant than necessary on a 39:53 and a 27 at the back (which I believe is the most the red derailleur will accommodate) so I shelled out for a compact chainset. Couldn't find a ten speed one anywhere for any money, so I went with the Red 22. I could have cheapened out there but fcuk it I figured I'd always look at a heavier and cheaper chainset with a furrowed brow and wish I'd stretched the budget.
So if I had to buy all that stuff, the build would make no sense whatsoever. A pair of those wheels now is 1800 quid, sram red can't be bought anywhere so you'd have to go etap or axs, or dura ace as an equivalent. That's another 1200 at least and only if you're lucky with it in-stock and on-sale.
Outta my pocket if I do the maths on it - the frame cost me about 700 quid, the chainset was 330 quid (!). I bought bars for 45 euro from Trekker here on boards, the Fizik cyrano r1 stem was about 55 quid from chainreaction, a fizik cyrano r3 seatpost was 75 from chainreaction. Lizard skin bar take was about 30 quid. Elite bottle cages - I dunno, 30 quid for 2? I can't remember. And I paid 250 quid total getting it built - that was two builds, the old frame and the new one and both times there were a couple of little extras like cabling inners or outers and actually there might even have been a bottom bracket in that as well. Oh yeah and the saddle is a Romin Pro evo (I think) - again, something I didn't have to buy 'cos it was a hand-me-down from another bike in the house.
So that's a total of €1,515. Which is of course a fantastic price for such a bike, but obviously if I had to buy all the bits like wheels and groupset, tyres and saddle (which I did in a way of course, I did buy them! but years ago) then it's knocking on the door of a 5 grand bike all day long:eek:. That would be bananas, obviously.
I did giggle to myself going around today though, thinking about my old retro-relic of a new bike. Threaded BB. Rim brakes. Aluminium frame. Wheels that have tubes (chooobs!!!) in them. Tyres that were only 25mm wide. A groupset with only ten gears. :pac::D. And yet I was able to go and stop and turn and climb and descend and the brakes worked and the air even stayed in the tyres!
Anyway, she got dirty today so the seal is broken and hopefully I'll be able to rack up some miles and maybe even show it off outside Clodagh's in Laragh some day before the summer if we're allowed.
Love the Palace disc Philten. How did your build cost compare to Bowman's own complete-bike offerings now?
My bike on that ride had disc brakes, Di2, tubeless, carbon rims. All great luxuries and very nice to have but can all cause potential problems that are not the easiest fixes. I have three main bikes which are now all tubeless & hydraulic discs. He was claiming how much simpler his bike was (while I was showing him how I can press a hidden button on my hoods to flick through the screens on my garmin). Tbh it made me long for something like a CAAD12, 105 or Ultegra rim brake, light alu wheels, Conti GP4000 25mm.
I promised the wife no new bikes this year, a net spend on bike stuff of less than 1000€, and I don't really have the space for something new in my apartment. But if this lockdown continues into the summer with the associated boredom and lack of opportunity to either do anything or spend money, I know what my next project might be.0 -
I'm curious if you had a similar saga with your frame?
I doubt it. The disc frames were all able to accomodate larger tire clearances and they came out a while ago so they've always been reasonably available. I could have had one last March as a replacement but then I'd have been stuck with my non disc groupset and wheels that I had intended using.
My frame was caught in a unique sh1tstorm where they had just finished designing it and were all set for manufacture and launch in July last year. Obviously the COVID Gods laughed and dumped all over those plans
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I doubt it. The disc frames were all able to accomodate larger tire clearances and they came out a while ago so they've always been reasonably available. I could have had one last March as a replacement but then I'd have been stuck with my non disc groupset and wheels that I had intended using.
My frame was caught in a unique sh1tstorm where they had just finished designing it and were all set for manufacture and launch in July last year. Obviously the COVID Gods laughed and dumped all over those plans
Interesting, I ask as I was eyeing the weald as an interesting all rounder Kind of sweet ending to yours but my patience wouldn't have held. :P 0 -
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Thanks all for the kind words. I'm very happy with the bike and had a very pleasant 50k (within my 5k limit) shake-down spin this afternoon. No wheel rubbing disasters like the first gen frame.
The bike is exactly what I wanted. I already have a top end light-weight carbon frame that stands me nothing cos I have it so long (nearly 8 years now) and a fabulous aero carbon frame that I got a super deal on second-hand and it stupendously good to ride. The Bowman, I suppose it's fair to say, represents the best of aluminium frame design and manufacturing and it's very different to the bikes I already have. It absolutely rides like an alooominum frame. It's springy and lively and has its own blend of stiffness and compliance that is really nice to ride and different enough from the other bikes to make it interesting.
Of course the finishing kit I have on it would bring the best out of ANY frame. It's top class stuff and I was fortunate to have it lying around unused from other bikes. The wheels are Mavic Ksyrium Exalith SLR's I bought new in 2012 and they were fair-weather Sunday shoes for my good bike so, while they've been used, they've been really well minded and have years riding left in them yet. The Sram Red is a 10 speed groupset, also bought in 2012. A spectacular collection of mechanical gear-changin wizardy! It was on my wife's bike and saw a lot more riding, training and racing, but sure what wears out in a groupset - cassettes, brake blocks, bottom brackets and cables have all been refreshed many times. The rest of it is in super nick. I do have the original chainset which I had on the first aborted Palace frame, but lockdown up-and-down-the-hill repeat-riding is less pleasant than necessary on a 39:53 and a 27 at the back (which I believe is the most the red derailleur will accommodate) so I shelled out for a compact chainset. Couldn't find a ten speed one anywhere for any money, so I went with the Red 22. I could have cheapened out there but fcuk it I figured I'd always look at a heavier and cheaper chainset with a furrowed brow and wish I'd stretched the budget.
So if I had to buy all that stuff, the build would make no sense whatsoever. A pair of those wheels now is 1800 quid, sram red can't be bought anywhere so you'd have to go etap or axs, or dura ace as an equivalent. That's another 1200 at least and only if you're lucky with it in-stock and on-sale.
Outta my pocket if I do the maths on it - the frame cost me about 700 quid, the chainset was 330 quid (!). I bought bars for 45 euro from Trekker here on boards, the Fizik cyrano r1 stem was about 55 quid from chainreaction, a fizik cyrano r3 seatpost was 75 from chainreaction. Lizard skin bar take was about 30 quid. Elite bottle cages - I dunno, 30 quid for 2? I can't remember. And I paid 250 quid total getting it built - that was two builds, the old frame and the new one and both times there were a couple of little extras like cabling inners or outers and actually there might even have been a bottom bracket in that as well. Oh yeah and the saddle is a Romin Pro evo (I think) - again, something I didn't have to buy 'cos it was a hand-me-down from another bike in the house.
So that's a total of €1,515. Which is of course a fantastic price for such a bike, but obviously if I had to buy all the bits like wheels and groupset, tyres and saddle (which I did in a way of course, I did buy them! but years ago) then it's knocking on the door of a 5 grand bike all day long:eek:. That would be bananas, obviously.
I did giggle to myself going around today though, thinking about my old retro-relic of a new bike. Threaded BB. Rim brakes. Aluminium frame. Wheels that have tubes (chooobs!!!) in them. Tyres that were only 25mm wide. A groupset with only ten gears. :pac::D. And yet I was able to go and stop and turn and climb and descend and the brakes worked and the air even stayed in the tyres!
Anyway, she got dirty today so the seal is broken and hopefully I'll be able to rack up some miles and maybe even show it off outside Clodagh's in Laragh some day before the summer if we're allowed.
Love the Palace disc Philten. How did your build cost compare to Bowman's own complete-bike offerings now?
Hard to compare as I was reusing an ultegra groupset off another bike (orro terra c, gravel bike) and bought a grx groupset for that. Also the fulcrum wheelset (700 db) and discs I used came with the orro. I put it together myself as a project and to save some cash.
Will upgrade the wheelset to something lighter at some point though.0 -
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A little update on my bike. It took so long to become a reality its surely worth a revisit or two throughout my ownership.
I haven't ridden another bike since getting it built up and she's getting plenty of use. 150km today and I think I'm coming to the conclusion that's near as dammit the perfect bike. The handling is amazing, the ride quality is spot on, it looks the dog's. - All the things you want from a bike, it just seems to hit that sweet spot like a bullseye. Like the introduction of an invasive plant species, you gotta be careful bringing one into your garage cos it'll take over and crowd out all your other bikes.
It will be interesting in fact, it's usually around now my "good bike" starts to emerge from hibernation, to see how my other steeds compare with the Bowman.
All in all, it's very satisfying indeed in the current bike market, where the top bikes are getting further and further beyond reach in terms of purchase price most of them now being well in excess of 10 grand, to see that a top aluminium frame can feel and look like an absolute superbike. Even built up with ten year old (albeit top level) componentry.. - Gives you hope for biking into the future 0 -
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100k solo spin yesterday evening and I was getting a click sound at the bottom of each pedal stroke when out of the saddle. Figured it to be one of the usual suspects - BB or headset or wheel or whatever. She was due a service anyway I've 4000km up since Jan. Wiping her down to put her in the car and I see this. It's the chainstay near the downtube end. I'm no engineer but... that don't look so good <sigh> 0 -
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Are both chainstays cracked there. Looks to be in the same spot either side also so perhaps someone blending the welds a bit to much.
You're story won't be a highlight for Bowman thus far :P
It's only on one side, the drive side. Ironically yeah, the same spot as the previous frame, though different issues. The first one was just being worn by the wheel because of a fault with the dropouts, but this is another thing entirely.
Maybe I need to start looking at titanium if I want a bike for life, or even a bike for a season.
Who was commenting lately on the mistrust of carbon and structural integrity over the long term? I've had no such issues with old carbon frames.
Anyway, as before the ball is in Bowman's customer care court now and I can only hope they'll be as amenable as before. Though I suppose, do I have to start asking the question about Bowman build number three and whether it's worth it or not?0 -
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Can't believe that
. I've been following for a bit, I came very close to buying a Palace a few years ago but ended up with a CAAD12 (wanted disc brakes). It's beautiful looking bike. Bowman having some serious QC issues it seems - very disappointing.
Very surprised to hear about issues with aluminium. I've 2 aluminium frames both with lifetime warranties. My banger is a 17 year old Trek that's been through the wars - crashed a bunch of times, the carbon seatpost snapped on me a few years back (10miles home with no sitting down:pac:) - the frame is still immaculate though.0 -
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God I am so invested in the saga I am almost personally disappointed by this not-fat_bloke. Really wanted a Bowman myself one day.
I have a Caad12 and it's like a tin can, mudguards have marked it, and it's got a teeny tiny dent in a seatstay, from very careful handling. Straight back to carbon for me. Have a 2012 F5 and it's as solid as a rock (and lighter too!).
The killer is that it genuinely is one of the nicest bikes I've ever ridden. A proper race bike. I do a lot of climbing, so that means a lot of descending. Now, my kamikaze days are behind me but I spent years riding very fast motorbikes so I know a bit about how to take a corner and the ease and confidence you can swoop down a twisty hill on the Bowman is something else.
All in all I've had very poor luck with high end Aluminium. I good few years ago I paid a winter-trainer premium for an Aluminium Storck and it was also a very very nice bike to ride, for all the same reasons as the Bowman, but it hardly lasted me half a season. The rear derailleur launched itself into the rear wheel one day and instead of the dropout snapping, it sheared off a corner off the frame, so you couldn't replace the dropout. I asked around, no one would or would fix it and it basically rendered the frame all but useless.
How many more tries do I give the metal?0 -
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In my opinion, none if they’ll give you a refund. stick to carbon or try steel
After the wait for the last one, I definitely wouldn't be content with getting a frame shipped to you to build up yourself again without some form of financial compensation. Probably take a few months again too.
Pity there is no real independent cycling media to promote this, they are all too busy sucking up to brands, especially British ones0 -
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