The Bi-Lingual Auditory Assult By Newstalk

gormdubhgorm · 21-04-2021 11:01pm

iffandonlyif wrote: »

You have a curious tendency to make illegitimate inferences. The reason I have not given a definition of Irishness - in fact, it seems obvious to me that there isn't a single one - is that I don't think it's a conversation worth having with you.

Yet again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of why OP and others do not appreciate token Irish on the radio. As Kaiser above says, it's derisive phrases like 'vacuous individual' that are the very reason many people want nothing to do with the Irish language and its zealous proponents.

Illegitimate inferences - more guff. I have given my definition of Irishness and you have just proven to me you cannot give one. Why is that I wonder? Ask yourself that I wonder you are trying to bluff your way out of it now by saying it not a conversation worth having.

You are a bluffer when it comes down to it.

Laughable stuff. Every nation is defined by what ever languages they speak or have spoken.

The OP is vaccous as the OP viewed a few words of language on an Irish station as an an 'auditory assault'. How does a language assault the OP and cause them harm?

Is the OP that insecure in themselves that feel shown up in some way?
An inadequacy when they don't understand a few words of Irish.
Why view it as an assault? It is an odd choice of word.

Again I have no problem with people who have no interest in the Irish language. Or any language for that matter.
Fine no problem there. Each to their own.
I would not have no issue with that.

But to view a language as an 'assault' shows a certain level of inadequacy that individual has in themselves. And it does demonstrate a vaccousness nature.

And I would be interested in how the OP identifies themselves and their sense of self, and/or nation?

Plus the OP did not even know how to spell 'assault' in the thread title. An English word. Which further adds to the irony of the thread.

21-04-2021 11:02pm

ok let's not allow this to get out of hand

Nobody here is a self-hating Irish person, whatever their views on the langauge — that can't be allowed to stand.

Nobody here is ignorant, please don't say that either.

This is a good discussion, let's all keep it civil, interesting and relevant to radio

21-04-2021 11:11pm

iffandonlyif wrote: »

This is to completely misunderstand OP's mindset. No, of course you wouldn't, for the reason that OP dislikes the intrusion of Irish not because of its oral qualities but because of the cultural intentions of its promoters.

You talk about self-hate. That claim is premised on the belief that an Irish person ought to embrace the language of their ancestors. It's beliefs like that from Irish-enthusiasts that cause people to resist the language.

It’s definitely a post colonial attitude of course. How many French people hate their language, their food, their general culture? Prefer everything English?

Now if they had been colonised by the English and France was a minority language, the food culture not really established and the culture reduced to a minority status then it might be a different story. So this a product of colonialism for sure. This doesn’t make haters of the Irish language less Irish, since post colonialism is part of the culture.

Outside the internet I’m not convinced that the hatred of Irish is that strong. Certainly I can’t think of any major political party or politician, civic group, celebrity or charity who wants to get rid of it. It’s the first official language after all. Maybe you could all set something up?

And despite, claiming to be normal, the dislike of a few words in one language (as opposed to the world dominant one) is fairly non rational.

gormdubhgorm · 21-04-2021 11:22pm

eirman wrote: »

I strenuously object to the creeping intrusion of the gaelic language several times an hour on Newstalk bulletins.
It offends my auditory senses and is forcing me away Newstalk.
(I can never get to the mute function quick enough).

Appeal To Newstalk Management:
Please don't let a minority force their beliefs on the majority.

Ok let's analyse the OP's initial post.

Firstly the OP uses the word 'Gaelic'. Which is deliberate. As I already have discussed. Every Irish person knows that the word for the Irish language is either 'Gaeilge' or 'Irish'. Unless you are a foreigner or discussing the Irish language with a foreigner.

The use of the word 'Gaelic' is deliberately used to disassociate themselves as an Irish person from the Irish language.

If the OP used 'Gaeilge' it would infer some level of knowledge of the language.
If the OP used 'Irish'. It would infer Irish ownership of the language so the OP wants to make sure to make it appear of 'other'.

How is the OP offended or harmed in anyway? Do they know any other language besides English? Does it harm them?

The final line is telling the OP uses the word 'beliefs' as if it is referring to a religion.
It is not a religion it is a language.

Now the OP may not be well versed in Irish Law or in the Constitution of Ireland.
And it is clearly stated in Article 8 of the Irish constitution that Irish is the first official language of the state

In fact, the OP might like to know about legal interpretation of legislation. Such as the statutory method. In other words it's plain meaning. It is the Irish language version/meaning takes precedence over the English version.That is in Irish Law.

Finally the OP is unaware of the BAI has to have a certain amount of Irish language programming per week.

The fact the the broadcast is bilingual means there should be no difficulty for the OP in understanding what is said on the Newstalk bulletins.

So the OP's cause for complaint does not seem like a very valid one whatsoever.
There seems to be a clear agenda by the OP against the Irish language which seems to be the nub of the issue. Added to a lack of knowledge on the subjects of Irish Law and even a few words of Irish.

I assume the OP uses the word 'Chief' when referring to the Taoiseach, and 'Speed' when referring to the Luas?

21-04-2021 11:23pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Your mistake GDG is presuming that the majority of people feel any connection between being Irish and the Irish language. They don't, nor do they feel any attachment or value to it beyond maybe the novelty value in a pub somewhere abroad.

This isn’t reflected in any polls or activism. I hear it on the internet but not in any sense anywhere outside that bubble. Yet the anti Irish language posters are convinced they are in a silent majority.

For my own part I prefer English, but I respect the right of Gaelgoiri to their language and the right of the odd radio presenter to break into it. The only “oppression” English speakers who hate Irish seem to face is the odd sign in Irish, a TV and radio channel they don’t have to listen to, and the ultimate horror of somebody breaking into Irish on a radio station for 5 seconds.

shtpEdthePlum · 21-04-2021 11:26pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Your mistake GDG is presuming that the majority of people feel any connection between being Irish and the Irish language. They don't, nor do they feel any attachment or value to it beyond maybe the novelty value in a pub somewhere abroad.

Not having an interest in an almost dead language that's forced upon them in school yet which has no practical value afterwards, or not seeing the value in pouring financial supports and inconvenient yet still tokenistic efforts to promote it, doesn't make someone "pathetic", "self-hating/loathing", "colonial" or all the other petty insults you've levelled at people who have taken the time to explain WHY they feel as they do. These insults are also meaningless because of the point I made above, but it does serve to further alienate those you are presumably trying to convince.

If anything, your own attitude displays exactly the traits that put people off, and is ultimately completely out of touch with the mood of the general public.

Just because someone has no interest in the Irish language, it doesn't make them any less Irish than you.

So what's your level of Irish like anyway?

iffandonlyif · 21-04-2021 11:35pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus the OP did not even know how to spell 'assault' in the thread title. An English word. Which further adds to the irony of the thread.

People in glass houses...

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Now the OP may not be well versed in Irish Law or in the Constitution of Ireland.
And it is clearly stated in Article 8 of the Irish constitution that Irish is the first official language of the state

In fact, the OP might like to know about legal interpretation of legislation. Such as the statutory method. In other words it's plain meaning. It is the Irish language version/meaning takes precedence over the English version.That is in Irish Law.

It’s for reasons such as that that people resent the proponents of Irish, and, by extension, the language itself.

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s definitely a post colonial attitude of course. How many French people hate their language, their food, their general culture? Prefer everything English?

Now if they had been colonised by the English and France was a minority language, the food culture not really established and the culture reduced to a minority status then it might be a different story. So this a product of colonialism for sure.

Outside the internet I’m not convinced that the hatred of Irish is that strong. Certainly I can’t think of any major political party or politician, civic group, celebrity or charity who wants to get rid of it. It’s the first official language after all. Maybe you could all set something up?

And despite, claiming to be normal, the dislike of a few words in one language (as opposed to the world dominant one) is fairly non rational.

How many Irish people prefer everything English? It’s not uncommon to hear people decry Irish politics, healthcare, planning, etc, but I think it’s a rarity to hear Gaelic culture criticised.

Your proof that it’s a post-colonial mindset rests on a pretty dubious counterfactual.

Like my friend above, you fail to understand what it is about those few words that annoys people. Dismissing it as irrational will forever prevent you from understanding it.

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2021 12:02am

iffandonlyif wrote: »

People in glass houses...

It’s for reasons such as that that people resent the proponents of Irish, and, by extension, the language itself.

How many Irish people prefer everything English? It’s not uncommon to hear people decry Irish politics, healthcare, planning, etc, but I think it’s a rarity to hear Gaelic culture criticised.

Your proof that it’s a post-colonial mindset rests on a pretty dubious counterfactual.

Like my friend above, you fail to understand what it is about those few words that annoys people. Dismissing it as irrational will forever prevent you from understanding it.

Plenty of spoofing in this. The OP is an Irish citizen and must abide by the laws of the state they they live in.

BAI and the Irish constitution is part of the Irish state and applies to radio.
it is not a belief it is law.

'Gaelic culture' point makes zero sense. One you have deliberately used the word Gaelic similar to the OP. So you would not have to use the word Irish.

The Irish language is part of the Irish Culture and is constantly under attack from people similar to the OP and yourself.
Be it giving out about Radio medium or whatever.

It is definitely a by product of post colonialism and Ireland's proximity to the UK. No other country has such confusion and self-loathing about it's own unique language.

I was wondering would the OP or yourself prefer the Taoiseach to be called 'Chief' as the word Taoiseach must surely be offensive to his auditory senses each time it is on Radio? Or would the OP or yourself refer to the Dáil as the 'Assembly' in normal conversation?

Would you stop using Irish terms on air altogether? Where does it begin and end. Wiped off the airwaves altogether is it? Pretend it does not exist.

Failure to try and understand a language and reaching for the remote, will definitely not improve understanding.

snowstorm445 · 22-04-2021 12:25am

I must say people complaining about Irish featuring in tiny slots on radio etc are really reminiscent of the sort of people who complain about seeing gay couples on tv, or non-white people. The mere presence is tantamount to "shoving it down my throat", although they'll pretend they have no issue with it in principle. Also any inclusion of them is always "tokenism", it can never be random or done on its own merits.

iffandonlyif · 22-04-2021 12:25am

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

'Gaelic culture' point makes zero sense. One you have deliberately used the word Gaelic similar to the OP. So you would not have to use the word Irish.

I used Gaelic to indicate that the Irish culture I was referring to was the one of the Irish language, Gaelic games, mythology, etc, rather than a modern iteration. After yet another misapprehension on your part, it’s probably a good time for me to bow out.

snowstorm445 wrote: »

I must say people complaining about Irish featuring in tiny slots on radio etc are really reminiscent of the sort of people who complain about seeing gay couples on tv, or non-white people. The mere presence is tantamount to "shoving it down my throat", although they'll pretend they have no issue with it in principle. Also any inclusion of them is always "tokenism", it can never be random or done on its own merits.

Good lord.

22-04-2021 12:27am

iffandonlyif wrote: »

It’s for reasons such as that that people resent the proponents of Irish, and, by extension, the language itself.

There’s that definite statement again. Presented without much evidence as to what people actually feel.

How many Irish people prefer everything English? It’s not uncommon to hear people decry Irish politics, healthcare, planning, etc, but I think it’s a rarity to hear Gaelic culture criticised.

All I can say about that sentence that it is grammatical. Senseless, but the grammar works.

Your proof that it’s a post-colonial mindset rests on a pretty dubious counterfactual.

Not really. You won’t get a French person hating on French.

Like my friend above, you fail to understand what it is about those few words that annoys people. Dismissing it as irrational will forever prevent you from understanding it.

That’s right I don’t. Because you haven’t really articulated why. I think there’s vague feeling here that you are oppressed somehow. But it’s just a few words and you live in an officially bilingual state.

But then, let’s be clear about it, disliking any language in that case would be crazy. I think you or the op would have been laughed off the internet if you were on here ranting about the few words of Spanish or German you heard on the radio somewhere.

22-04-2021 12:29am

iffandonlyif wrote: »

Good lord.

He’s right. It’s a minority language. The reaction to it is clearly bigotry.

22-04-2021 12:35am

iffandonlyif wrote: »

I used Gaelic to indicate that the Irish culture I was referring to was the one of the Irish language, Gaelic games, mythology, etc, rather than a modern iteration. After yet another misapprehension on your part, it’s probably a good time for me to bow out..

I see the point you're making about 'Gaelic', I think a lot of us bristle when we hear that word used to describe the Irish language in the same way someone might squirm to hear a BBC commentator use "The Irish Republic" — it's not that the description is wrong, you just wonder why they won't use the proper title? It isn't a big deal, but neither is it a big deal just to use the correct term; it can sometimes come off a little bit disrespectful.

Of all the things that have been said about the Irish language on radio, and in the radio forum, this is pretty minor; even pedantic. But it does bristle, a bit.

Edgarfrndly · 22-04-2021 1:17am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I see the point you're making about 'Gaelic', I think a lot of us bristle when we hear that word used to describe the Irish language in the same way someone might squirm to hear a BBC commentator use "The Irish Republic" — it's not that the description is wrong, you just wonder why they won't use the proper title? It isn't a big deal, but neither is it a big deal just to use the correct term; it can sometimes come off a little bit disrespectful.

Of all the things that have been said about the Irish language on radio, and in the radio forum, this is pretty minor; even pedantic. But it does bristle, a bit.

The Irish language has multiple names. Gaeilge, Gaelainn, Gaeilig and some others - the latter of which sounds like "gaelic". In Ulster you'll often hear Irish referred to as "gaelic" in English. It's really a non-issue to be fair. There's nothing wrong with calling it Gaelic and I find most people who take issue with it aren't speakers, or if they are - they learned Irish in school and don't have a whole amount of experience with traditional dialects.

22-04-2021 1:44am

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

In Ulster you'll often hear Irish referred to as "gaelic" in English.

It's certainly true that Irish will often be referred to as "Gaelic" among some people in the north of Ireland, and probably in the UK, too. The other examples you mention are local declensions (an Ghaelainn/ceist na Gaelainne') which have nothing to with the word 'Gaelic'.

I think we are getting away from the point, somewhat. Nobody is seriously claiming the language is called 'Gaelic', not even Ciara Kelly. Let's give words their proper meaning.

Edgarfrndly · 22-04-2021 2:07am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's certainly true that Irish will often be referred to as "Gaelic" among some people in the north of Ireland, and probably in the UK, too. The other examples you mention are local declensions (an Ghaelainn/ceist na Gaelainne') which have nothing to with the word 'Gaelic'.

I think we are getting away from the point, somewhat. Nobody is seriously claiming the language is called 'Gaelic', not even Ciara Kelly. Let's give words their proper meaning.

Yeah I don't want to spin it off-topic, I was just referring to the idea of a proper title for the language when it has multiple names. But I digress. Anyways, back to the topic at hand

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2021 11:50am

eirman wrote: »

I strenuously object to the creeping intrusion of the gaelic language several times an hour on Newstalk bulletins.
It offends my auditory senses and is forcing me away Newstalk.
(I can never get to the mute function quick enough).

Appeal To Newstalk Management:
Please don't let a minority force their beliefs on the majority.

Another point I take issue with here from the OP is that the OP arrogantly assumes that they are in the majority regarding their attitude to the Irish language.

Most would not vehemently attack it and view as an 'attack on the auditory senses' that is for sure.

Some would would be apathetic, and would not mind one way or the other.

Some would enjoy hearing a few words of Irish to improve their Irish level. The majority would view it as a matter of course as we live in Ireland and it is important for the preservation of Irish heritage and the Irish language.

Research has shown this:

https://www.forasnagaeilge.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Attitudes-towards-Irish-2015.pdf

40 per cent wished the language to be revived with over 50 per cent wishing it to be preserved. (2009)

In the Republic, almost two-thirds (64 per cent) believe that Ireland would lose its identity without the Irish language. (2013)

According to the 2013 Irish Language Survey, there was support for teaching of the Irish language in schools with four-in-five adults in the Republic agreeing that the language should be available as a subject in school.

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2021 12:05pm

iffandonlyif wrote: »

I used Gaelic to indicate that the Irish culture I was referring to was the one of the Irish language, Gaelic games, mythology, etc, rather than a modern iteration. After yet another misapprehension on your part, it’s probably a good time for me to bow out.

Good lord.

It is again noticeable that you did not answer any of my questions regarding the use of Irish words in day to day Irish live.

On all Irish radio we hear the words 'Taoiseach', 'Tainiste', 'Dàil', 'Luas', 'Oireachteas'. In Irish life these words are commonly used.

People know their meaning in a news report and normal conversation. I assume you use many of those words in conversation and understand them on radio?

If you do not like the Irish language language so much (like the OP) why do you use those Irish language words in conversation? And also, how are you and the OP able to understand them?

22-04-2021 12:15pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Research has shown this:

https://www.forasnagaeilge.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Attitudes-towards-Irish-2015.pdf

I40 per cent wished the language to be revived

I'm sure this is just a typo, but in case anyone should think us a bheith ró-dairíre go deo (humourless bastards), I found this statistic to be very amusing, like one of them old Soviet-era approval statistics.

For sure you have a point, most people either don't care about snippets trí mheán na gaeilge ar an raidió or they want to hear them. There's no harm in it at all in my personal view.

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2021 12:26pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm sure this is just a typo, but in case anyone should think us a bheith ró-dairíre go deo (humourless bastards), I found this statistic to be very amusing, like one of them old Soviet-era approval statistics.

For sure you have a point, most people either don't care about snippets trí mheán na gaeilge ar an raidió or they want to hear them. There's no harm in it at all in my personal view.

haha yeah I just corrected that.

I think another number got put before the 40 when I was editing the text.

For the record I don't believe that 140% want the Irish language revived.

Over 50% want the Irish language preserved though and it is through pieces of Irish even here and there. Such as on radio that this objective being achieved. Plus the many uses of Irish names for people, places, organisations.

Dáil. Luas, Machnas, Tigh Linn, Teagasc, An Daingean, Spiddal/An Spidéal, Claddagh Ring etc (Cladach meaning shore in Irish)

PopePalpatine · 22-04-2021 12:43pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Research has shown this:

https://www.forasnagaeilge.ie/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Attitudes-towards-Irish-2015.pdf

40 per cent wished the language to be revived with over 50 per cent wishing it to be preserved. (2009)

In the Republic, almost two-thirds (64 per cent) believe that Ireland would lose its identity without the Irish language. (2013)

According to the 2013 Irish Language Survey, there was support for teaching of the Irish language in schools with four-in-five adults in the Republic agreeing that the language should be available as a subject in school.

A 207 page report, they don't do their Gish Gallops by halves do they?

God forbid that Foras's gravy train gets derailed.

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2021 12:52pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

A 207 page report, they don't do their Gish Gallops by halves do they?

God forbid that Foras's gravy train gets derailed.

You have gone off tangent on another anti-Irish language rant. Rather than discussing the facts at issue in the report.

I assume if there was no report or no source given. The usual boards.ie comment would appear 'have you got a source for that?' :rolleyes:

But now since a source is given the source itself is attacked. For being too comprehensive and a waste of money! :rolleyes:

Instead you should really be asking why your attitude is like this regarding the Irish language. If we go back to the OP's initial post we will see that the underlying argument of the OP is the same.

Even a bilingual news report offends the OP. Even though there was English side by side with it.

What exactly is wrong with that?
Why is it offensive?

I notice neither of those questions have yet to be answered on this thread. There has only been the usual throw away remarks from a certain cohort of individual.

My view is there is nothing wrong with it nor is it offensive. The problems are with the individual(s) who have their own 'underlying issues' regarding the Irish language. Inadequacy, fear or whatever you wish to call it. The underlying problem is not the Irish language itself or Newstalk.

iffandonlyif · 22-04-2021 1:14pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I'm sure this is just a typo, but in case anyone should think us a bheith ró-dairíre go deo (humourless bastards), I found this statistic to be very amusing, like one of them old Soviet-era approval statistics.

He was accounting for the beliefs of the dead.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

It is again noticeable that you did not answer any of my questions regarding the use of Irish words in day to day Irish live.

On all Irish radio we hear the words 'Taoiseach', 'Tainiste', 'Dàil', 'Luas', 'Oireachteas'. In Irish life these words are commonly used.

People know their meaning in a news report and normal conversation. I assume you use many of those words in conversation and understand them on radio?

If you do not like the Irish language language so much (like the OP) why do you use those Irish language words in conversation? And also, how are you and the OP able to understand them?

Hilariously, your argument proves what I have said all along and which you repeatedly fail to comprehend: it is not the language people object to, it is the way in which it is promoted!

And, by the way, they're spelt 'Tanaiste' and 'Oireachtas'. What was it you said about the irony of misspelling?!

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2021 1:47pm

iffandonlyif wrote: »

.
your argument proves what I have said all along and which you repeatedly fail to comprehend: it is not the language people object to, it is the way in which it is promoted

Not true if you look at the OP's comment and subsequent comments from the OP the issue is clearly NOT with the way the Irish language is 'promoted'.

It is CLEARLY because the OP has issues with the Irish language as you yourself may also have.

eirman wrote: »

I strenuously object to the creeping intrusion of the gaelic language several times an hour on Newstalk bulletins.
It offends my auditory senses and is forcing me away Newstalk.
(I can never get to the mute function quick enough).

Appeal To Newstalk Management:
Please don't let a minority force their beliefs on the majority.

eirman wrote: »

I was taught to despise the language in school.
The very sound of the language grates on my senses!

I know it sounds weird, but I am a product of the Irish educational system.

Yet another poster soon after said they had exactly the opposite experience and they too are a product of the Irish education system.

It is clear the OP has 'underlying issues' with the Irish language and it not simply about the promotion of the language.

I am not sure whether you have the same 'underlying issues'. But you seem to have jumped on the 'promotion' angle. You continuously erroneously apply the OP's problem with the Irish language as a 'promotional' one. This is clearly false as proven by the OP's own words. The OP's has an issue with the Irish language, full stop.

You also ignore the question as to why hearing Irish on the radio is offensive?

You were also unable to describe what 'Irishness' means to you which was telling. Even briefly.

You deliberately use the word 'Gaelic' for Irish or Gaeilge which is telling.
They are all 'tells' as they would say in poker.

EmmetSpiceland · 22-04-2021 2:15pm

Unless you’re talking to an American, or other foreigners, calling the language “Gaelic” is very odd. And, even then, you’d probably say “Irish Gaelic”, or vice versa.

PopePalpatine · 22-04-2021 2:37pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You have gone off tangent on another anti-Irish language rant. Rather than discussing the facts at issue in the report.

I assume if there was no report or no source given. The usual boards.ie comment would appear 'have you got a source for that?' :rolleyes:

But now since a source is given the source itself is attacked. For being too comprehensive and a waste of money! :rolleyes:

Instead you should really be asking why your attitude is like this regarding the Irish language. If we go back to the OP's initial post we will see that the underlying argument of the OP is the same.

Even a bilingual news report offends the OP. Even though there was English side by side with it.

What exactly is wrong with that?
Why is it offensive?

I notice neither of those questions have yet to be answered on this thread. There has only been the usual throw away remarks from a certain cohort of individual.

My view is there is nothing wrong with it nor is it offensive. The problems are with the individual(s) who have their own 'underlying issues' regarding the Irish language. Inadequacy, fear or whatever you wish to call it. The underlying problem is not the Irish language itself or Newstalk.

I personally don't have any problem with Newstalk's bilingual news report. It's their station, their choice, even if their choice is just a cynical ploy for another government grant or tax write-off that's part and parcel of the language's life support.

In fact, maybe the inadequacy lies somewhere else, with a language with a media that depends desperately on government funding.

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2021 2:54pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Unless you’re talking to an American, or other foreigners, calling the language “Gaelic” is very odd. And, even then, you’d probably say “Irish Gaelic”, or vice versa.

There is a definite clear intent there from the OP. Which is obvious to anyone who knows this.

Ironically, another poster has been constantly using a promotional of Irish angle to try and defend the OP.

When the OP never even mentioned 'promotion'. Nor was the OP even aware the use of the Irish language for 'seachtain na gaeilge'. The OP's whole basis of argument seems to be that he/she despises the language and 'its very sound' grates on his/her senses. The OP used language such as 'Gaelic', 'beliefs' and so on.

It does not sound like reasoned or impartial argument to me. In fact to me it sounds like an irrational hatred with no foundation base on logic whatsoever. Pure irrational hatred, nothing more, nothing less.

If the OP came back to this thread it would be interest to find out the OP's level of educational attainment. Their background, and if they have any interest in any languages at all. Plus what their proficiency in them is.

Because in my experience people who are more open to languages (or even life and cultures itself) certainly would not have this irrational hatred towards the Irish language. Unless there is an unlying cause. Or something 'snapped' somewhere.

eirman wrote: »

I strenuously object to the creeping intrusion of the gaelic language several times an hour on Newstalk bulletins.
It offends my auditory senses and is forcing me away Newstalk.
(I can never get to the mute function quick enough).

Appeal To Newstalk Management:
Please don't let a minority force their beliefs on the majority.

eirman wrote: »

I was taught to despise the language in school.
The very sound of the language grates on my senses!

I know it sounds weird, but I am a product of the Irish educational system.

Morathi wrote: »

It's just for seachtain na gaeilge*, you'll be able to understand when they say "and that's all the news for now/more in an hour" in a week or two.

I know these times are hard, but hang in there. If the world got through Megan and Harry leaving Buckingham, you can overcome this tragedy.

* This means Irish Language Week**

** Oddly runs for over two weeks.

eirman wrote: »

Thanks Morathi - So you are saying that things will be back to normal soon?
Great news - I can now shelve plans to write to the station!

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2021 3:08pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I personally don't have any problem with Newstalk's bilingual news report. It's their station, their choice, even if their choice is just a cynical ploy for another government grant or tax write-off that's part and parcel of the language's life support.

In fact, maybe the inadequacy lies somewhere else, with a language with a media that depends desperately on government funding.

I agree with you to an extent. The Irish language could be dealt with more wholesomely across the board rather than in piecemeal fashion.

However, Seachtaine na Gaeilge does work to some extent. In that it gives people who have 'school Irish' a chance to use it for the fun of it. And if it sparks an interest or renewed interest in the language there is no harm in it.
Seachtaine na Gaeilge is designed as a little nudge to the Irish population.

Offices using Irish even for the day or whatever or even an hour two. I remember back when I spoke a lot less Irish than I do now. And they had a day like that in the office where people spoke Irish to each other. I was terrified I would get the grammar wrong not know words.
Basically through lack of use, and lack of confidence in speaking the language.

But sure, once I started getting going I was grand. I remember someone started laughing and said - 'you have Irish!'

OK, there is a vocal minority like the OP which would be completely affronted by the whole idea. But the silent majority would not mind Newstalk putting on a few words of Irish in a few newsreports. The reaction would certainly not be as negative and visceral among the majority of the Irish population.

Hotblack Desiato · 22-04-2021 4:12pm

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

BAI and the Irish constitution is part of the Irish state and applies to radio.

The constitutional claim that Irish is the first language of the state is a nonsense and always has been. The mother tongue of the vast majority of the people is not Irish. Might I remind you our constitution also states a woman's place is in the home...

The BAI requirements (not just Irish, lots of things) are a farce and are strangling radio in this country.

22-04-2021 4:41pm

PopePalpatine wrote: »

A 207 page report, they don't do their Gish Gallops by halves do they?

God forbid that Foras's gravy train gets derailed.

It’s an report by the ESRI. Foras merely commissioned it. The size was up to them.

I’ve often wondered about whether online forums reflect real life, especially in 2021 and in the pandemic when most people are online. You’d think it might.

Given the discrepancy between attitudes on this thread - not just comments but thanks - I wonder about boards. Especially given the views expressed the most forcefully here as what “people think” are a tiny minority.

22-04-2021 4:49pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The constitutional claim that Irish is the first language of the state is a nonsense and always has been. The mother tongue of the vast majority of the people is not Irish. Might I remind you our constitution also states a woman's place is in the home...

The BAI requirements (not just Irish, lots of things) are a farce and are strangling radio in this country.

A constitutional claim can’t really be nonsense. It’s not saying that the language is widely spoken either. Just that it takes precedence in certain cases.

The mention of the constitutional claim about a woman’s place being in the home is interesting because the citizens assembly is discussing it now. It’s not going to stay but they aren’t sure what’s going to replace it.

Anyway 66% of the members are randomly selected. And they can come up with amendments. So let’s see if they want to drop the Irish language and Sendung that to the public.

Might be worth trying actually. Bring some people out if the woodwork

Hotblack Desiato · 22-04-2021 5:02pm

It'd be political suicide. Remember about ten years ago when Enda Kenny said that we might consider making Irish optional for the Leaving and there were demonstrations with people with their mouths taped up ffs. Not because they were not being allowed do something, but because they wanted other people to be compelled to do something.

Oh and they had lots of nice expensive placards too, no doubt ultimately paid for by the taxpayer.

Compulsion has been disastrous for the language.

gormdubhgorm · 22-04-2021 5:07pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The constitutional claim that Irish is the first language of the state is a nonsense and always has been. The mother tongue of the vast majority of the people is not Irish. Might I remind you our constitution also states a woman's place is in the home...

The BAI requirements (not just Irish, lots of things) are a farce and are strangling radio in this country.

I agree with you on the constitutional claim as it is nominally aspirational. But does serve act as a preservative for the Irish language in a legal sense. I look on it like perseverative in jam. The BAI sort of pretend to follow the line as far as I see it.

But bits of Irish here and there such as Newstalk do help keep Irish in the public consciousness even in a limited way.

It does not exactly state a woman's place is in the home (it was very cleverly worded I think for 1937) :

Article 41.2 states:

1. In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.

2. The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home

Whatever about the 'wimmin', I think the Irish language is important for the 'common good'.

And although the BAI in Irish radio and reality of the Irish language v the statement in the constitution could better.
It is better than nothing which is the likely alternative.

22-04-2021 6:30pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It'd be political suicide. Remember about ten years ago when Enda Kenny said that we might consider making Irish optional for the Leaving and there were demonstrations with people with their mouths taped up ffs. Not because they were not being allowed do something, but because they wanted other people to be compelled to do something.

Oh and they had lots of nice expensive placards too, no doubt ultimately paid for by the taxpayer.

Yeh, its political suicide because most people don't agree with you.

Compulsion has been disastrous for the language.

In terms of compulsion Irish probably has to be as compulsory as English constitutionally. Which doesn't mean Irish can't be made non compulsory in school but that English has to probably have the same status.

whisky_galore · 22-04-2021 7:38pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Might be worth trying actually. Bring some people out if the woodwork

The usual shower who make a lot of well meaning noises about retaining it but can't be bothered using it themselves.
Dog in a manger stuff.

22-04-2021 7:59pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

The usual shower who make a lot of well meaning noises about retaining it but can't be bothered using it themselves.
Dog in a manger stuff.

By out of the wood work I mean y'all anti Irish language campaigners. Never seen nor heard outside the internet.

It's perfectly legitimate to be in favour of Irish maintaining a status while not using it. Thats my position.

22-04-2021 8:13pm

fvp4 wrote: »

By out of the wood work I mean y'all anti Irish language campaigners. Never seen nor heard outside the internet.

It's perfectly legitimate to be in favour of Irish maintaining a status while not using it. Thats my position.

I can understand the opposition to compulsory Irish, I can even understand the opposition to any further funding for the promotion of the language. I disagree, but there is a cogent argument to be made along a pretty clear line of thought.

What I do not understand, and I'd love someone to explain, is the specific opposition to hearing Irish language snippets on the radio. Snippets, like. I just want to understand why it provokes people.

By the way, someone earlier mentioned Seachtain na Gaeilge. I don't know if anyone here listens to the Beo ar Éigean podcast on RTE Radio 1. Anyway, during Seachtain na Gaeilge the hosts were basically complaining about the event, arguing that it's tokenistic, a box-ticking exercise, which I thought was an interesting view I hadn't heard before. I think they're right. The radio stations are great to promote the language for the (two weeks of) Seachtain ba Gaeilge, but after that they sorta give up.

Fair play to Shane Coleman for keeping up with it, though.

Hotblack Desiato · 23-04-2021 1:03pm

fvp4 wrote: »

Yeh, its political suicide because most people don't agree with you.

It's political suicide because of a very small but very vocal lobby group, which uses taxpayers' money to tell taxpayers what they should think and what their government should do.

A few posts back there was a survey mentioned, it said "40 per cent wished the language to be revived" but 40 percent are not prepared to become fluent in the language themselves, so they are hypocrites and/or just telling the surveyor what they want to hear.

Ask loaded questions, get loaded answers.

In terms of compulsion Irish probably has to be as compulsory as English constitutionally. Which doesn't mean Irish can't be made non compulsory in school but that English has to probably have the same status.

I don't agree that the constitution has any bearing on what LC subjects can be optional. But I would be fine with making both optional at LC.

Dan Jaman · 02-05-2021 2:42pm

I notice in recent years the Scottish teaching authorities have introduced the teaching of Gaelic into the shools.
As a product of the Scottish education system from 'way back, I only hope the teaching methods have improved.
In spite of being exposed to several psychopaths with the full range of corporal punishment at their disposal, I managed to glean enough to get me by.
However, if any of those nutters had been teaching me Gaelic, I suspect I'd also have an aversion to it.

gourcuff · 07-05-2021 3:28pm

love the language personally, see a huge revival in the last decade, am making a conscious effort to get back into it with duolingo and an irish language cd in the car.. great to retain some element of cultural identity i feel..

The Bi-Lingual Auditory Assult By Newstalk

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