Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

The flying mouse · 30-11-2016 12:08pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Having traveled extensively on the Continent, I can tell you that the levels of public drunkenness one can witness on any given evening in a city or town center in Ireland simply don't exist elsewhere.
We have an extremely unhealthy relationship with alcohol and something needs to be done about it.
Most people on this thread are more concerned their Dutch Gold is going up by a few cents.

Yep that's true, excluding Britain, I to would travel widely in Europe & you just don't see the same drunkenness & violence you see on Irish city's & towns after bars/clubs close. Not saying they don't have problems but certainly not on the same scale here.

but I still don't think this is the way to combat abuse of alcohol in this country.

bear1 · 30-11-2016 12:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

bear1 wrote: »

Are you an for real?
I haven't denied it but you stated hundreds are killed on the roads each year due to drink driving and yet the "source" you quoted said since records began in 1959 and then you took the average.

Ah, casting aspersions on the validity of sources, even the state-funded Health Research Board which is held in high regard by medical professions. How very Brexiteresque.

Yes, yes, yes - of course that is the level of abject stupidity in this discussion (you could have actually read the source where the percentage of drink-related admissions is discussed but no, an obtuse conclusion without reading the evidence is much better)

I apologise for not selectively editing the facts to choose the statistics that suit you.

This is fúcking retarded now. The figures already given on the cost of alcohol abuse to the state -€3.7 billion - suddenly aren't good enough for you in their own right: they must now be compared with figures regarding other drugs (and you'd then come out with some bullshít about the validity of that source). So nothing should be done about alcohol abuse unless we get evidence that it's worse than heroin and the like. Oh please, give the pathetic post-truth games a rest.

Christ you're posts are idiotic at best. Trump, right wing and now a brexiteer..
You are quoting figures at a 50 year level, do you not see yourself that this is flawed?
So according to you, the state has paid 3.7 billion in the 50 years prior to 2010 or after?
No, we should let adults be adults and if they want a drink or 2 without being raped by the state then minimal pricing should not be enforced.
I still fail to see how your outlandish claim that hundreds are killed on the roads every year due to alcohol holds any water? Is this utter bolloxology theory or are you still going to say that the RSA and HSE confirmed it when in fact they havent.
Remove all drink related incidents in A&E and you think the crisis of the beds will go away? Will it fcuk, but when we have people like you who think the avergae joe should be screwed over left right and center because blah blah blah then it's no wonder people call this country a nanny state.
What next? ban alcohol completely? Maybe imprison people who do?

dr.fuzzenstein · 30-11-2016 12:15pm

The flying mouse wrote: »

Yep that's true, excluding Britain, I to would travel widely in Europe & you just don't see the same drunkenness & violence you see on Irish city's & towns after bars/clubs close. Not saying they don't have problems but certainly not on the same scale here.

but I still don't think this is the way to combat abuse of alcohol in this country.

And you touched on a very important point here. Bars and clubs. Since they won't be affected, this will not change. Therefore the law is useless.

Not related to this post: Who's thick now and would that person say it to my face? You can then laugh on the other side of yours, come on now keyboard warrior.

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:16pm

elefant wrote: »

The point is that the price of alcohol has nothing to do with how much of it Irish people drink. Irish cultural attitudes towards alcohol are problematic, and raising the price of a can won't change that.

And you know that because......

If alcohol were free or at the cheap levels it is elsewhere Irish people would be in a near constant state of drunkenness
It's not a coincidence that consumption dropped dramatically during the recession. Less disposable income equals less consumption. As sure as night follows day, they are on the rise again as the economy improves.

dr.fuzzenstein · 30-11-2016 12:17pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

And you know that because......

If alcohol were free or at the cheap levels it is elsewhere Irish people would be in a near constant state of drunkenness
It's not a coincidence that consumption dropped dramatically during the recession. Less disposable income equals less consumption. As sure as night follows day, they are on the rise again as the economy improves.

Again, not applicable to clubs and bars, so law useless.

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 12:18pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Having traveled extensively on the Continent, I can tell you that the levels of public drunkenness one can witness on any given evening in a city or town center in Ireland simply don't exist elsewhere.
We have an extremely unhealthy relationship with alcohol and something needs to be done about it.
Most people on this thread are more concerned their Dutch Gold is going up by a few cents.

Where does this unhealthy relationship start? In childhood when children are indirectly taught how special and amazing alcohol is by restricting it so severely and making it such a right of passage to turn 18 and have it legally for the first time. Not to mention the usual irish "sticking it to the man" of underage drinking that we are all also complicit in by once again making it such a special thing in the minds of our children.

Hiding it behind a curtain and making even more of a fuss by adding MUP isnt going to solve any of these issues. Its definitely not going to solve the real problem of people with drinking problems accessing cheap alcohol cus they are gonna buy it no matter what the cost is cus they have a drinking problem, do drug addicts care what the price of drugs are?

This law is irrefutably a get out of jail free pass to the vintners who have refused to adapt their business models and pricing. The only piece of evidence you need to prove this is they all support it cus its not gonna affect their pricing by one bit and will hopefully get more people back into the pubs.

Consumption per person has gone down year over year since 2006 a fact proven by OECD figures. Along with that so has pricing which proves the price of alcohol has zero influence on consumption rates. There is zerto evidence saying it does apart from one single report from a canadian province based on the discredited Sheffield model.

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 12:21pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

And you know that because......

If alcohol were free or at the cheap levels it is elsewhere Irish people would be in a near constant state of drunkenness
It's not a coincidence that consumption dropped dramatically during the recession. Less disposable income equals less consumption. As sure as night follows day, they are on the rise again as the economy improves.

People had less disposable income yet as we are constantly told pricing is too low right now as well so the less disposable income argument becomes null and void when you consider at the same time that prices are so low consumption has being going down year of year since 2006.

There are zero facts supporting MUP having any evidence on consumption beyond nanny state nimbyists wanting to pretend likew their doing something while in reality all they are doing is giving the rip off merchant Vintners exactly what they want

The flying mouse · 30-11-2016 12:21pm

bear1 wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

Christ you're posts are idiotic at best. Trump, right wing and now a brexiteer..
You are quoting figures at a 50 year level, do you not see yourself that this is flawed?
So according to you, the state has paid 3.7 billion in the 50 years prior to 2010 or after?
No, we should let adults be adults and if they want a drink or 2 without being raped by the state then minimal pricing should not be enforced.
I still fail to see how your outlandish claim that hundreds are killed on the roads every year due to alcohol holds any water? Is this utter bolloxology theory or are you still going to say that the RSA and HSE confirmed it when in fact they havent.
Remove all drink related incidents in A&E and you think the crisis of the beds will go away? Will it fcuk, but when we have people like you who think the avergae joe should be screwed over left right and center because blah blah blah then it's no wonder people call this country a nanny state.
What next? ban alcohol completely? Maybe imprison people who do?

Bear1 that figure 3.7billon was just for one year @ 2007, This is the latest figures I can find...its all here if you care to read.

The estimated cost of alcohol harm of €2.35 billion in 2013 is a significant reduction on the figure of €3.7 billion estimated for 2007 in a comprehensive report published in 2010..A 30% reduction in alcohol-related harm would save taxpayers an estimated €1 billion a year, according to the Chief Medical Officer of Ireland -

. - See more at: http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/alcohol-and-costs/#sthash.c8HBTdV2.dpuf

30-11-2016 12:24pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

People comparing the price of alcohol here with Spain or Germany are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Irish people cannot be trusted with cheap drink. It's an undeniable fact.
Attend any Christmas party with a free bar and have a look around at the end of the night. Most people will be pissed out of their heads.

So what, if I want to get hammered that's my business.

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

And you know that because......

If alcohol were free or at the cheap levels it is elsewhere Irish people would be in a near constant state of drunkenness
It's not a coincidence that consumption dropped dramatically during the recession. Less disposable income equals less consumption. As sure as night follows day, they are on the rise again as the economy improves.

Again its not your concern, let people live the way they want if they are paying for it out of their own money (not the dole) they should be able to drink as they want and not be loaded with nanny state nonsense pricing.

bear1 · 30-11-2016 12:26pm

The flying mouse wrote: »

bear1 wrote: »

Bear1 that figure 3.7billon was just for one year @ 2007, This is the latest figures I can find...its all here if you care to read.

The estimated cost of alcohol harm of €2.35 billion in 2013 is a significant reduction on the figure of €3.7 billion estimated for 2007 in a comprehensive report published in 2010..A 30% reduction in alcohol-related harm would save taxpayers an estimated €1 billion a year, according to the Chief Medical Officer of Ireland -

. - See more at: http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/alcohol-and-costs/#sthash.c8HBTdV2.dpuf

Thanks.
Read through that although it is a high figure I still can't see how having a minimum price on alcohol is going to do to change that.
Dr. Fuzz mentioned that the law will not cover bars and clubs... so what's the point?
Surely you are more likely to end up in hospital after a night out drinking then if you are having a quiet night in?
It would be interesting to see the figures for 2016 as if we take the 2007 and 2013 amounts then it's already looking better with 1.4ish billion saved.

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:26pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Again, not applicable to clubs and bars, so law useless.

Not useless at all.
Most alcohol is sold through the off-trade.

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 12:27pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Irish people cannot be trusted with cheap drink. It's an undeniable fact.

Explain our dropping consumption figures versus cheaper alcohol prices please then?

All you do is make grand sweeping statements but never provide evidence or facts to back up any of it, much like the nanny state politicians ignoring the facts to back up their vintners lobbyist friends

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:28pm

Philip Clean Ruler wrote: »

So what, if I want to get hammered that's my business.

And no one will stop you.

You will however need to make an increased contribution to the State to offset the cost to society of you getting regularly hammered.

Sounds fair to me.

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 12:28pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Not useless at all.
Most alcohol is sold through the off-trade.

Ahhh so you admit finally that this is an attempt to help unfairly assist the Vintners in getting punters back in their doors?

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:29pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Explain our dropping consumption figures versus cheaper alcohol prices please then?

All you do is make grand sweeping statements but never provide evidence or facts to back up any of it, much like the nanny state politicians ignoring the facts to back up their vintners lobbyist friends

Already explained if you actually read my posts properly. Less disposable income.

BrokenArrows · 30-11-2016 12:29pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Brings the whole water charge thing into light.

Just because a very small few can't handle their drink shouldn't mean it ruins it for the rest of us.

Up north we go.....

Thats exactly whats going to happen. People will just chip in together, rent a van and drive up north.

pilly · 30-11-2016 12:29pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Alcohol in Ireland is one of the most expensive in the EU, making it more expensive will only make the problem worse if you compare the lack of drink problems in countries where drink is a fraction of the cost of here.

I can't see how a price hike would make things better but conversely I honestly don't see how they will make things worse?

bear1 · 30-11-2016 12:29pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

People comparing the price of alcohol here with Spain or Germany are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Irish people cannot be trusted with cheap drink. It's an undeniable fact.
Attend any Christmas party with a free bar and have a look around at the end of the night. Most people will be pissed out of their heads.

Hmm, I'm in Warsaw now where a can costs about 50 cents.
I'm not tempted to get bollock drunk... I just rubbished your fact.

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 12:30pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

And no one will stop you.

You will however need to make an increased contribution to the State to offset the cost to society of you getting regularly hammered.

Sounds fair to me.

What costs do my getting drunk in my own home inflict on the state? list them in order with accurate fact based cost estimates please

bear1 · 30-11-2016 12:31pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

And no one will stop you.

You will however need to make an increased contribution to the State to offset the cost to society of you getting regularly hammered.

Sounds fair to me.

What am I costing the state if I'm sitting in my house getting drunk?

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 12:31pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Already explained if you actually read my posts properly. Less disposable income.

But prices in off sales are also cheaper by your own arguments, so the less disposable income theory goes out the window.

It only applies to Vintners who have not reduced their prices by one cent in over 2 decades.

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:31pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Ahhh so you admit finally that this is an attempt to help unfairly assist the Vintners in getting punters back in their doors?

What a bizzare non sequitur.

Bubbaclaus · 30-11-2016 12:32pm

I'm assuming this would have no effect on the price in bars/clubs?

I only drink when on a night out so this wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

bear1 · 30-11-2016 12:34pm

VinLieger wrote: »

What costs do my getting drunk in my own home inflict on the state? list them in order with accurate fact based cost estimates please

It's funny isn't it? You pay VAT on the alcohol you buy then drive in something you pay tax on to keep on the road to a house you pay property tax on so you can have your VAT paid drink and yet we are costing the state money..

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:35pm

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I'm assuming this would have no effect on the price in bars/clubs?

I only drink when on a night out so this wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

It's the problem drinkers who like lots of cheap alcohol who'll be most effected.

That's a good thing.

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:39pm

VinLieger wrote: »

What costs do my getting drunk in my own home inflict on the state? list them in order with accurate fact based cost estimates please

Running around providing you with facts and figures would hold very little interest for me, I suggest you conduct your own research into any matters of interest to you.

Leroy42 · 30-11-2016 12:41pm

All of the reports will be estimations, based on some projections and one model or another.

Don't fixate on the numbers themselves, whether it is 3bn or 2bn, it is clear from any A&E, talk to the Gardai, walk around any town at closing time, that alcohol is a driver of a lot of issues. And behind that, the unseen costs. The broken families, the abuse, the money that could be spent on education, food, heat etc gets taken off to spend on drink. The children would miss out on time with mam & dad because they are too hung over to bring them to footy etc.

Clearly, unlike cigarettes, alcohol taken into moderation has little to no concerns. But over generations there is a sizable portion of the Irish population that has shown itself incapable of handling alcohol.

Once you accept that at least a small amount of this happens, the question then turns to what should be done about it. What can we do, as a society, to protect those from the effects.

I certainly do not agree that MUP is the answer, at least not on its own. Like the problems itself, the answer is multifaceted.

I mentioned earlier, that if they insist on regulating the MUP, they should also regulate the maximum, and stop the abuse of customers that is currently allowed to happen in pubs after 11 o'clock. Suddenly a pint goes from €6 to €8.

Pubs should be forced to reduce prices on non alcoholic beverages as a trade off. Splash of coke costing €2! There should be designated driver allowances where if a group of say 3 people spend over a certain amount then they get the money back on all non alcoholic drinks.

Shandy for example should not be the same price as a pint, but in nearly all pubs it is.

These are things that can be implemented immediately if the reduction of alcohol was actually the driver factor. And a clear target for the reduction. X% in 3 years for eg. After 18 months the minister responsible needs to report and give details of what is working/not working with the scheme.

One easy step, although would not have any great emperical impact, would be to get rid of the dail bar. It sends out the wrong signal. TDs say they are concerned about the issue and should be seen to lead from the front.

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 12:42pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

It's the problem drinkers who like lots of cheap alcohol who'll be most effected.

That's a good thing.

I know right? its worked so well with drug addicts........

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Running around providing you with facts and figures would hold very little interest for me, I suggest you conduct your own research into any matters of interest to you.

Not how it works, make a claim then back it up, asking someone sle to research your own claims means you lose the argument, its quite simple really

Oodoov · 30-11-2016 12:42pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

It's the problem drinkers who like lots of cheap alcohol who'll be most effected.

That's a good thing.

And the non problem drinkers like myself and my wife who basically can't afford to go out to the pub and like to sit in once every couple of weeks and have a few drinks or invite some friends over for drinks that's just tough sh it?

Getting very pissed off with this society and the direction we are going tbh, Sugar tax, minimum pricing on booze, compulsary health insurance is in their sights next, etc.. real wiff of big brother nanny state is getting increasingly evident :mad:

dr.fuzzenstein · 30-11-2016 12:43pm

I'm currently in the lovely city of Kempten in southern Germany. Let's have a look in Lidl.
wine 1.09 for a liter of rose, 9.5%
White rum (40%) 5.59
A sixpack of beer (500 ml each, 5%) 1.69, yes the WHOLE sixpack.
That is a carton of wine, 800 ml of rum and a sixpack of Perlenbacher for the staggering sum of €8.37!
And I will get a deposit back when I return the bottles.
There are no drunk Germans anywhere, so Myth Busted
As for availability, in can buy alcohol 24/7 at the petrol station, so that's that also dealt with.

pilly · 30-11-2016 12:44pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

Bear1, you seem to be fixated the wrong issue. All of the reports will be estimations, based on some projections and one model or another.

Don't fixate on the numbers themselves, whether it is 3bn or 2bn, it is clear from any A&E, talk to the Gardai, walk around any town at closing time, that alcohol is a driver of a lot of issues. And behind that, the unseen costs. The broken families, the abuse, the money that could be spent on education, food, heat etc gets taken off to spend on drink. The children would miss out on time with mam & dad because they are too hung over to bring them to footy etc.

Clearly, unlike cigarettes, alcohol taken into moderation has little to no concerns. But over generations there is a sizable portion of the Irish population that has shown itself incapable of handling alcohol.

Once you accept that at least a small amount of this happens, the question then turns to what should be done about it. What can we do, as a society, to protect those from the effects.

I certainly do not agree that MUP is the answer, at least not on its own. Like the problems itself, the answer is multifaceted.

I mentioned earlier, that if they insist on regulating the MUP, they should also regulate the maximum, and stop the abuse of customers that is currently allowed to happen in pubs after 11 o'clock. Suddenly a pint goes from €6 to €8.

Pubs should be forced to reduce prices on non alcoholic beverages as a trade off. Splash of coke costing €2! There should be designated driver allowances where if a group of say 3 people spend over a certain amount then they get the money back on all non alcoholic drinks.

Shandy for example should not be the same price as a pint, but in nearly all pubs it is.

These are things that can be implemented immediately if the reduction of alcohol was actually the driver factor. And a clear target for the reduction. X% in 3 years for eg. After 18 months the minister responsible needs to report and give details of what is working/not working with the scheme.

One easy step, although would not have any great emperical impact, would be to get rid of the dail bar. It sends out the wrong signal. TDs say they are concerned about the issue and should be seen to lead from the front.

Totally agree on the price of minerals, there's no incentive pricewise on a night out to not drink. Pint of diet coke has cost me €5.60!

VinLieger · 30-11-2016 12:51pm

pilly wrote: »

Totally agree on the price of minerals, there's no incentive pricewise on a night out to not drink. Pint of diet coke has cost me €5.60!

There is not one aspect of the bill that will in any way affect how pubs do business, its farcical how obviously the Vintners have been influencing this

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:53pm

Oodoov wrote: »

And the non problem drinkers like myself and my wife who basically can't afford to go out to the pub and like to sit in once every couple of weeks and have a few drinks or invite some friends over for drinks that's just tough sh it?

:

Doesn't sound like you'll be overly affected by minimum pricing. I wouldn't worry about it really.

CaptainR · 30-11-2016 12:54pm

We moved up to Louth a few years ago and have never really seen the benefit of driving all the way up north to get cheap stuff because when you run the numbers you'd have to buy litres of spirits or a hundred cans to make it worth while.

I'm telling you now if this does pass we'll all be like Al Capone smuggling drink in from Canada.

Then brexit will happen and it'll be real smuggling.

There'll be petrol tankers filled with whiskey sneaking in, in no time.

Leroy42 · 30-11-2016 12:55pm

pilly wrote: »

Totally agree on the price of minerals, there's no incentive pricewise on a night out to not drink. Pint of diet coke has cost me €5.60!

And the soft drinks companies, coke in particular regularly run campaigns for designated drivers but pubs simply pocket the money.

Buy a pint of coke (2 small bottles) but only pay for one, Coke give the cost of the second bottle free to the publican.

It is why I have no sympathy for publicans. They have shown themselves to be totally against any change, unwilling to bend to help society at large. Yet they want society at large to help them.

I don't have any issues with the notion of pubs themselves, the social aspect is great and should be maintained, but publicans have done little to react to the new realities.

Crack down on drink driving, how about set up some local buses to bring people in once a week. Non alcoholic drinks pricing.

Hell, even the archaic licencing laws. We have seen from the Taxis that severely limited licences does nothing but hurt the consumer. They should liberalise the laws so that unless a clear societal objection can be raised, rather than "this is my turf" that passes as concerns at the moment.

Why should any person be allowed to maintain a set market just because? Let another pub open and the market will look after it. After all, all the publicans say that the pricing it totally out of their hands so any new pubs will not be able to undercut them.

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:56pm

VinLieger wrote: »

Not how it works, make a claim then back it up, asking someone sle to research your own claims means you lose the argument, its quite simple really

I don't really care 'how it works'.

I don't have any interest in posting up links especially not on a mobile device.
If you're satisfied you've won an argument, then good for you.

bear1 · 30-11-2016 12:57pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Doesn't sound like you'll be overly affected by minimum pricing. I wouldn't worry about it really.

Yes he will, he will have to pay more to get the same thing.
You said yourself that the ones who drink at home are costing the state but now you seem to say differently.

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 12:59pm

bear1 wrote: »

Yes he will, he will have to pay more to get the same thing.
You said yourself that the ones who drink at home are costing the state but now you seem to say differently.

Don't really see the big deal if his consumption is as low and infrequent as he claims.
There's far more important and costly things to get annoyed about.

bear1 · 30-11-2016 1:03pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Don't really see the big deal if his consumption is as low and infrequent as he claims.
There's far more important and costly things to get annoyed about.

Indeed there are but the thread is about alcohol.
The entire country isn't getting ****ed off their heads of bulmers but if a certain amount of people prefer to drink at home then they shouldn't be penalised.
All this will do is help shops in the north increase their profits while shops down here get shafted.
Talking obviously more about the border counties here.

foggy_lad · 30-11-2016 1:06pm

Ah sure it won't matter to most of us anyways as we'll be on the blind pension after a few months of drinking the auld wood spirit.

Oodoov · 30-11-2016 1:07pm

Leroy42 wrote: »

All of the reports will be estimations, based on some projections and one model or another.

Don't fixate on the numbers themselves, whether it is 3bn or 2bn, it is clear from any A&E, talk to the Gardai, walk around any town at closing time, that alcohol is a driver of a lot of issues. And behind that, the unseen costs. The broken families, the abuse, the money that could be spent on education, food, heat etc gets taken off to spend on drink. The children would miss out on time with mam & dad because they are too hung over to bring them to footy etc.

Clearly, unlike cigarettes, alcohol taken into moderation has little to no concerns. But over generations there is a sizable portion of the Irish population that has shown itself incapable of handling alcohol.

Once you accept that at least a small amount of this happens, the question then turns to what should be done about it. What can we do, as a society, to protect those from the effects.

I certainly do not agree that MUP is the answer, at least not on its own. Like the problems itself, the answer is multifaceted.

I mentioned earlier, that if they insist on regulating the MUP, they should also regulate the maximum, and stop the abuse of customers that is currently allowed to happen in pubs after 11 o'clock. Suddenly a pint goes from €6 to €8.

Pubs should be forced to reduce prices on non alcoholic beverages as a trade off. Splash of coke costing €2! There should be designated driver allowances where if a group of say 3 people spend over a certain amount then they get the money back on all non alcoholic drinks.

Shandy for example should not be the same price as a pint, but in nearly all pubs it is.

These are things that can be implemented immediately if the reduction of alcohol was actually the driver factor. And a clear target for the reduction. X% in 3 years for eg. After 18 months the minister responsible needs to report and give details of what is working/not working with the scheme.

One easy step, although would not have any great emperical impact, would be to get rid of the dail bar. It sends out the wrong signal. TDs say they are concerned about the issue and should be seen to lead from the front.

There should be no minimum pricing. Education is the answer. People don't step out in front of a bus for the reason they know it's dangerous. We don't build big barriers between the road and path because someone may decide to step out in front of the bus we educate them from a young age that's it's dangerous. You can't just keep using pricing as a tool to control peoples actions because a minority are to thick to know that drinking 24 cans of beer is unhealthy.

Also if any parent spends money on booze instead of food, heat or education etc.. that's a problem for the person not society as a whole. You think someone like that is going to stop drinking of course they won't they will just have to spend more on that booze to the detriment their family.

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 1:07pm

So what about prices in pubs? Any chance they will come down??

MeatTwoVeg · 30-11-2016 1:10pm

bear1 wrote: »

Indeed there are but the thread is about alcohol.
The entire country isn't getting ****ed off their heads of bulmers but if a certain amount of people prefer to drink at home then they shouldn't be penalised.
All this will do is help shops in the north increase their profits while shops down here get shafted.
Talking obviously more about the border counties here.

I'm happy enough to introduce it and study its effects after a few years. If there's no positive benefit, then fine, drop it.

CaptainR · 30-11-2016 1:11pm

Its a bit like if the government hiked up the price of petrol to stop people driving as much in an effort to reduce road deaths.

A rather simple comparison but its their train of thought on this. Not addressing why exactly people die on the roads or drink excessively, but to just make it too expensive to do as often making the figures drop. Then they can pat themselves on the back and say "look what we accomplished!"

I haven't read the whole thread so it may have been mentioned already but I remember someone on here a while ago saying they reckon Lidl could bring Ireland to the European Courts for anti-competition behaviour.

Anyone more familiar with this idea and its viability?

Help!!!! · 30-11-2016 1:14pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

I'm happy enough to introduce it and study its effects after a few years. If there's no positive benefit, then fine, drop it.

Ok so get on to the government & tell them you will be the guinea pig & leave the rest of the country alone
Problem solved

foggy_lad · 30-11-2016 1:14pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

I'm happy enough to introduce it and study its effects after a few years. If there's no positive benefit, then fine, drop it.

That's a real Vradkar "Suck it and see" attitude:P

Oodoov · 30-11-2016 1:16pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

Doesn't sound like you'll be overly affected by minimum pricing. I wouldn't worry about it really.

I'm sorry how would not having to pay more for something not affect me? We run the household on a strict budget and that's the thing isnt it the people making these decisions, the high paid civil servants etc.. who don't have to worry about increasing prices are the ones preaching from a height about this.

Normal people who work and pay for everything just want to be left alone and god forbid they got pissed the odd weekend and enjoyed themselves in the comfort of their own house.

osarusan · 30-11-2016 1:18pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

There's far more important and costly things to get annoyed about.

Usually a sign that an argument is falling apart.

elefant · 30-11-2016 1:19pm

MeatTwoVeg wrote: »

I'm happy enough to introduce it and study its effects after a few years. If there's no positive benefit, then fine, drop it.

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest it has any possibility of being a 'success'.

I don't live in Ireland anymore, so this won't affect me at all for 95% of the year. But for the Ministry of Health to be suggesting this will certainly protect the health of the citizens from the demon of drink is either wilful ignorance or barefaced deception.

I'm not sure which of those is preferable.

Geuze · 30-11-2016 1:20pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm currently in the lovely city of Kempten in southern Germany. Let's have a look in Lidl.
wine 1.09 for a liter of rose, 9.5%
White rum (40%) 5.59
A sixpack of beer (500 ml each, 5%) 1.69, yes the WHOLE sixpack.
That is a carton of wine, 800 ml of rum and a sixpack of Perlenbacher for the staggering sum of €8.37!
And I will get a deposit back when I return the bottles.
There are no drunk Germans anywhere, so Myth Busted
As for availability, in can buy alcohol 24/7 at the petrol station, so that's that also dealt with.

Exactly.

Price isn't the issue.

It's Irish people / their psychology that is the problem.

Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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