Irish Rail Future Outlined and No Dart Underground Mentioned?

2700 units are for Suburban services.

We still have commuter units appearing on Rosslare, Sligo and Tralee services, so more ICR stock is needed

Maynooth over Balbriggan for electrification is sensible in that Maynooth would benefit the most from the acceleration properties of electric trains due to more, closer stations and an extremely poor alignment. Northern Line would benefit most from more passing loops / partial quad tracking on the inner sections with electrification bringing limited further benefits.

BowSideChamp wrote:

And what light rail currently services Blanchardstown? Probably the largest urban population in Dublin!!

It is the largest suburb in Dublin and if there was a rail connection (even light)
Serving the centre it would benefit greater parts of Blanchardstown but let's be realistic, the best chance blanch has is getting the DART service

fingers crossed with a bit of copon the Dublin bus review will give us a frequent local service linking Blanchardstown centre and the local rail stations with a expanded area of Blanchardstown than there is currently.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

My solution:

-Extend the docklands rail line across the Samuel Beckett bridge and up the quays to Tara street.

-Convert the Maynooth commuter line to light rail (Irish broadgauge with branches to the Blanch Centre) allowing onstreet connection to Tara Street over the Samuel Beckett bridge.

- Capcity across the loop line bridge reduced allowing all commuter trains from Huestion to go through Phoenix Park tunnel to the city centre

- thereby no need for Dart Underground that will cost €billions and will never get green lit

- samuel beckett bridge already built for light rail

Can't happen, non-electric train and too heavy for Beckett bridge. Luas or dart maybe but not a commuter train.

Yourself isit wrote: »

Now that the luas has churned up as much of the city centre as is needed why cant we continue it out to blanch. From broombridge

Capacity, short runs. Imagine how many people would cram into it where as a train with 4 carriages could take 2 to 3 times more,

Cannon_fodder wrote: »

Electric dart to Maynooth is sensible but how much disruption to services will be caused>?

Not a massive amount, lot of night and some weekends only. Would be worth it.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

The DART will never run on the Maynooth line. As I said, the DART Underground has been estimated to cost €3billion just for the tunnel. Add the train stock you bring the total bill to €4b. It will never get built.

The constraint at the moment, is the Loop Line bridge and Connolly Station. Electrifying the Maynooth Line as a stand alone project will deliver no increased capacity.

I said light-rail. Luas style. Not a commuter train.

going on the list of benefits you mentioned in your first post on this thread, the only actual benefit your suggestion would bring is a line into blanch, which can be done anyway without the up-evil and cost of converting a currently existing line which has other services as well as the suburban services, which needs the capacity of heavy rail and which adds badly needed capacity into the dublin area. it can be done via a branch off the currently existing network, or via a new luas route serving new areas not served by rail
the connolly constraint is an issue but it needs solving anyway and it won't be done via your suggestion.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Ugh I am repeating myself again.

Use Irish broad gauge. We used it for decades in the city centre.

Where in the city centre was it used, railway lines aside?

BowSideChamp wrote: »

The Sligo train is a loss maker. Runs only a few times a day.

If only a few is seven then yes you are right

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/07_dublin_-sligo.pdf

BowSideChamp wrote: »

A luas style train from Maynooth could run at 2 min intervals just like the Green Line at peak times. (It would really be Metro Grade rather then luas.)

but it would still be of lower capacity then the currently existing heavy rail system, would be another type of railway with vehicles that can only operate on that line, wouldn't bring people into connolly for further onward travel. a 2 minute frequency with lower capacity vehicles is nice for a turn up and go service but it is really compensating for a lack of actual capacity which is needed anyway, and which would still have to be implemented. so your suggestion wouldn't solve anything.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

The current contraints leave the Maynooth line currently looking like the commuter train into Calcutta.

that's down to lack of extra carriges currently. can easily be solved.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Similarly if the Maynooth trains is diverted to a new railway up to Tara Street, if frees up slots on the Loop Line for extra Dart services.

where is it going to terminate in tara street. also, the amount of slots it would supposibly free up just delay the inevitable at greater cost and up-evil to an existing, very busy line.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Win - Win - Win

not win win win i'm afraid. cost and up-evil for no benefit that can't be solved by other means, which need implementing anyway.

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Where in the city centre was it used, railway lines aside?
QUOTE]

What do you think all the tram lines in Dublin were??

They were actually 5 foot 2 3/16 inches and not 5 foot 3".

Gauge aside, the curves and gradients on public streets would be too tight to allow for it, and that's before the unacceptable safety risks of running heavy rail on public streets.

wordofwarning wrote: »

It is getting a BRT out to UCD. It does not need a Luas line. Blanch is nothing but a horrible shopping centre that would not look out of place in a state you have never heard of in the US, a few business parks aka glorified industrial estates and a generic low density housing. A BRT is fine for Blanch.

It makes no sense spending hundreds of million (probably close to €500-600m) to extent the Luas to Blanch when A) it is getting the BRT. it is not particularly dense C) I imagine the Luas will be pretty packed from Broombridge to town without it serving 70k ish in Blanch

I don't see the logic in serving Blanch just because it has a large urban population, when the public transport in Phisboro, Drumcondra, Santry/Ballymun, Swords is horrific. The metro would serve a lot more people

what's the logic in serving anywhere because it has a large urban population, when other areas have public transport that is horrific? because the reality is it needs good quality transport, and we can insure all of the areas you mention have good quality public transport with political will. it doesn't have to be 1 place at the expence of another. a brt being brought out to blanch isn't a reason for no luas line. in fact, it's possible it may have to be upgraded to a luas line anyway at a later stage, so it may as well be built. if it actually doesn't justify a luas line, and there is no chance of that being the case in the future, then so be it. but i personally don't believe it won't need 1 in the future, so it's best to build it. if anything, it may encourage people to move into the area.
todays current needs aren't tomorrows. we really need to get away from the mindset of only doing things for today's needs, it's about future proofing the country.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

JESUS CHRIST!! How many times do I have to say this.

I am talking about a Light Rail train. Similar to the Luas that will use the existing Irish Guage track. Like the Green Luas Line it can be metro capacity. Irish gauage has been used before on the streets in Dublin and can be used again. Russia uses wider gauges on its trams.

okay. dublin's trams were not 5-3 as losty has just explained to you. we know the type of train you are talking about. however, the reality is that they are of low capacity compared to the existing heavy rail network, will only be able to run on that 1 line, will mean huge up-evil for that line which is very busy because it will need to be closed while the relevant conversion work takes place, means services to sligo can no longer operate because the trams will require lower electrical wiring. and all for, avoiding the building of DU which will have to be built eventually, bringing a line into blanch which can be done as is, and freeing up a few slots at connolly which will be taken i presume by an increased phoenix park tunnel service (who's facilitation is one of the reasons you believe this proposal should be implemented)
all the while money will need to be spent on extra capacity through connolly anyway. your suggestion is a solution looking for a problem, as the problem will need to be solved via other means anyway.

Yourself isit wrote: »

Well up the frequency then. There is a link to tallaght which is as big.

More trains (and drivers) are needed to deliver that along with the removal of the remaining level crossings.

The return of the 2700 DMUs should mean that the 2800s return to Dublin which will facilitate more trains.

Electrifying the route and implementing a DART service is the only way forward.

Converting to light rail has to be the daftest idea I've read here for some time. The idea of a 2 minute frequency from Maynooth to the city is crazy.

It also takes no account of Sligo line services.

A decent DART service is the only real solution.