M50 thread

Kermit.de.frog · 31-07-2018 11:13pm

They should build 2 toll lanes each way. These toll lanes can have their own dedicated super flyovers for users.

Charge the toll lanes for the faster journeys. Rest free.

Kermit.de.frog · 20-08-2018 11:59pm

New smart motorway upgrades in UK are converting hard shoulders to 4th lanes.

They could do this with the M50. Inexpensive extra lane.

First Up · 21-08-2018 7:55am

Am I right in understanding the M50 will not be affected by the papal road closures next Sunday?

The published maps look like the blueprint for the Normandy invasion and are almost incomprehensible. I have no wish to go anywhere near the Phoenix Park but I would like to travel from Sandyford to the M7.

OldMrBrennan83 · 21-08-2018 7:58am

I was wondering the same. I've to get from Dublin Airport to Limerick on Saturday morning and I'd rather not go through Tullamore or anything.

markpb · 21-08-2018 9:40am

First Up wrote: »

Am I right in understanding the M50 will not be affected by the papal road closures next Sunday?

No exit inbound at J6 Blanch, J7 Lucan or J9 Red Cow from 4am Sunday till between midnight and 6am Monday.

I'd expect traffic volumes to be significantly higher than normal for a Sunday.

https://twitter.com/M50Dublin/status/1030106310329737217

Alkers · 21-08-2018 12:27pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

They could do this with the M50. Inexpensive extra lane.

There isn't a full-with hard shoulder on most of the m50

First Up · 21-08-2018 12:41pm

markpb wrote: »

No exit inbound at J6 Blanch, J7 Lucan or J9 Red Cow from 4am Sunday till between midnight and 6am Monday.

I'd expect traffic volumes to be significantly higher than normal for a Sunday.

https://twitter.com/M50Dublin/status/1030106310329737217

OK thanks. That looks as if access to the M7 southbound from the M50 will be OK.

Sam Russell · 21-08-2018 12:49pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

New smart motorway upgrades in UK are converting hard shoulders to 4th lanes.

They could do this with the M50. Inexpensive extra lane.

They have been doing this for years around Birmingham.

They need to implement variable speed limits, and average speed monitoring, and speed limit enforcement first. It would yield much better results.

marno21 · 21-08-2018 2:56pm

Widening the M50 has been continiously ruled out by all parties involved.

It is not feasible for a multitude of reasons.

The only solution now is removing traffic from the M50 in any way possible. There is some seriously low hanging fruit, and as alternatives come online that traffic will removed (yes it'll likely be replaced with other traffic).

The main congestion wave on the M50 is from the M1 to the J13-J16 business parks southbound in the morning and northbound in the evening. This traffic will be offered an alternative in the form of the Metro.

Chris_5339762 · 21-08-2018 7:14pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

New smart motorway upgrades in UK are converting hard shoulders to 4th lanes.

They could do this with the M50. Inexpensive extra lane.

The UK are spending an absolute fortune on smart motorways instead of upgrading them properly. They are just sticking plasters and proper widening or new motorways will soon have to be revisited there.

Kermit.de.frog · 21-08-2018 7:24pm

marno21 wrote: »

Widening the M50 has been continiously ruled out by all parties involved.

It is not feasible for a multitude of reasons.

Why is it not feasible?

Of course it's feasible but the petals don't want to do it at the moment.

Two extra lanes each way and more flyovers at junctions would improve things enormously.

Much better chance of widening happening than tolling for political reasons.

Plenty of room. Let's get it done! :cool:

BonnieSituation · 21-08-2018 7:49pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why is it not feasible?

Of course it's feasible but the petals don't want to do it at the moment.

Two extra lanes each way and more flyovers at junctions would improve things enormously.

Much better chance of widening happening than tolling for political reasons.

Plenty of room. Let's get it done! :cool:

And then when those lanes fill up?

Do you suggest to just keep adding lanes?

Getting needless private comnuter traffic off the roads is the only game in town.

Kermit.de.frog · 21-08-2018 8:00pm

Personally i'd set the limit at 10 lanes each way (if we needed it) including car pooling and HOV lanes.

Then i'd look at the outer ring motorway for Dublin...

marno21 · 21-08-2018 9:22pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why is it not feasible?

Of course it's feasible but the petals don't want to do it at the moment.

Two extra lanes each way and more flyovers at junctions would improve things enormously.

Much better chance of widening happening than tolling for political reasons.

Plenty of room. Let's get it done! :cool:

You picked one part of the M50 where there is space either side.

Not the parts where there are structures, developments beside the M50, or places like the Westlink.

The M50 has been upgraded. Spending several billion on further upgrades is a distraction from what's really needed.

smurph6 · 23-08-2018 7:51am

I'm flying out Saturday at 6.30pm from Dublin Airport. Was planning on taking the aircoach up from Cork. Will delays be bad on M50? I know on the aircoach site they said they'll be dropping passengers to Dublin airport first as opposed going through city. Just want to know what kinda time should I give myself

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 23-08-2018 9:15am

Widening the m50 to accommodate more traffic is very low on the list of stupid ideas to address the problem.

BonnieSituation · 23-08-2018 9:22am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Personally i'd set the limit at 10 lanes each way (if we needed it) including car pooling and HOV lanes.

Then i'd look at the outer ring motorway for Dublin...

And personally, why did you stop at 10 lanes?

marno21 · 23-08-2018 10:52am

Edward Tight Sailing wrote: »

Widening the m50 to accommodate more traffic is very low on the list of stupid ideas to address the problem.

Where is all the traffic going to go? The approach roads are also full

Aside from the multi billion cost of widening it. Addressing car dependence (especially needless car dependence) is the solution here

I would also build the eastern bypass before any M50 widening, and there are other solutions road based too such as measures around the Ballymount junction, perhaps a 2nd auxiliary lane between N4-N7 etc

Dravokivich · 23-08-2018 11:15pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And then when those lanes fill up?

Do you suggest to just keep adding lanes?

Getting needless private comnuter traffic off the roads is the only game in town.

The lanes don't create demand. They just release the choking elsewhere to get onto it.

But I don't think the m50 has much more opportunity for expansion. The way Dublin and surrounding counties have developed over the last 25 years means it's no longer suited to it's purpose. Just like the north/south circular roads.

Something needs to be done to enable people to make the journeys planners don't accept they need to. And that means reviewing what options there are with crossing liffey valley.

marno21 · 23-08-2018 11:23pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

The lanes don't create demand. They just release the choking elsewhere to get onto it.

But I don't think the m50 has much more opportunity for expansion. The way Dublin and surrounding counties have developed over the last 25 years means it's no longer suited to it's purpose. Just like the north/south circular roads.

Something needs to be done to enable people to make the journeys planners don't accept they need to. And that means reviewing what options there are with crossing liffey valley.

They do create demand. The M50 maxed out at around 100k vehicles between N4-N7 back before it was upgraded, it's now carrying upto 170k vehicles per day and there has been no relief given to the surrounding roads.

I totally agree with your last point though. Extending the R136 Outer Ring Road across the Liffey to Blanchardstown really is a no brainer. The lack of Liffey crossing around the M50 are simply driving people onto the M50.

The toll is the obvious stumbling block here though.

Kermit.de.frog · 23-08-2018 11:39pm

For goodness sake. It's not rocket science. Expand the approach roads as well with extra lanes and flyovers.

Bigger, better roads is what we need.

marno21 · 23-08-2018 11:44pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

For goodness sake. It's not rocket science. Expand the approach roads as well with extra lanes and flyovers.

Bigger, better roads is what we need.

No, it's not rocket science. But even rocket science won't find you land to do this.

Bigger roads is the opposite of what we need, on the M50 corridor

Where will you find room to widen these?

Kermit.de.frog · 23-08-2018 11:51pm

There is room in all those locations for at least one extra lane. CPO for the rest.

Kermit.de.frog · 24-08-2018 12:18am

Example

This could be the N4/M50 junction - full proper freeflow (though if the M50 mainline is under the flyovers i'd have an extra couple of lanes here)

59sw_driver_view_at_bw8_A_going_s_21-july-2001_hres.jpg

59sw_driver_view_at_bw8_A_going_s_21-july-2001_hres.jpg

And this should be the N4 itself....

When Dublin has roads like this there will be no problem! It will all work smoothly and never reach capacity in our lifetimes.

Incidentally i'm a big fan of the rumble strips in the line paintings! That should be implemented here too!!

marno21 · 24-08-2018 12:25am

LOL I give up

Dravokivich · 24-08-2018 7:03am

marno21 wrote: »

They do create demand. The M50 maxed out at around 100k vehicles between N4-N7 back before it was upgraded, it's now carrying upto 170k vehicles per day and there has been no relief given to the surrounding roads.

I totally agree with your last point though. Extending the R136 Outer Ring Road across the Liffey to Blanchardstown really is a no brainer. The lack of Liffey crossing around the M50 are simply driving people onto the M50.

The toll is the obvious stumbling block here though.

The extra vehicles is because there's more people driving from outside Dublin. The m50 is the first major roadway available to disperse around Dublin for high volume traffic. Which'll continue to increase with time.

24-08-2018 8:06am

marno21 wrote: »

LOL I give up

Yeah, It's like an obese patient going to the doctor anf been told to get the next size up in clothing rather than to lose weight!
What is needed it to look at why there is so much traffic and either disperse the places of work, more accommodation in the city or better public transport, or a combination of all of these and other measures.

Kamili · 24-08-2018 9:43am

I'm actually shocked that some posters on here think Ireland has the money to doll out building US style motorways, let alone the land or space, then theres the resources. Where do they think this money is going to come from?

Simply building more and more lanes doesn't solve the issue. Poor planning, and our unreliable/sub standard and expensive public transport needs to be looked at before considering ah sure whack a US style 10 lane motorway in. and ah sure if that doesn't work feck in more lanes.

The issues of bad routes on Public transport is forcing people into their cars. Taking 2-3 hours to get across a small city on a bus, is crazy. Lack of public or too expensive public transport options from commuter towns is also pushing more and more into their cars and clogging up roads.

There is some epic trolling going on on this thread.

BonnieSituation · 24-08-2018 10:13am

I was willing to take KDF's ignorance on the matter at face value til I saw the posts/images above.

So, I guess we can move swiftly on.

marno21 · 29-08-2018 8:22am

The M50 must be quite improved this morning, M1 closed SB J5-J4, and the R132 is barely coping with the traffic so there's a lot less traffic feeding into the M50 from the M1 corridor

rameire · 29-08-2018 8:40am

unfortunately not.
N3 inbound was very heavy.
and M50 was very heavy from Lucan junction all the way to Jn12.

Kamili · 29-08-2018 8:43am

Northbound was slightly slower than previous weeks too, and the brake light checkers and late lane changers/swervers are back. Along with the dawdling middle and right lane hoggers.

Sigh.. I miss summer

Kermit.de.frog · 06-10-2018 1:40am

Jesus!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QikEacxthSY

US rumble strips instead of line painting could help with the drunks.

prunudo · 06-10-2018 9:14am

Hope they got sorted. The beauty of a traffic cam, makes life a lot easier when having to explain something to an insurance company.

Kamili · 11-10-2018 8:37am

piece in the Journal about the number of incidents on the M50 since 2017

http://www.thejournal.ie/m50-crashes-foi-4278822-Oct2018/

THE COUNTRY’S BIGGEST motorway has witnessed more than 5,100 accidents and incidents since the beginning of 2017.

Dublin’s M50 ring road has recorded “incidents” at the rate of over 243 per month, according to a detailed list provided by Transport Infrastructure Ireland.

And one just for Kermit:

A spokesman for Transport Infrastructure Ireland said that with 50 million journeys a year, the motorway was no longer a ring road but rather within the city suburbs.

Sean O’Neill said: “Options for increasing capacity are not endless and eventually there comes a point when adding lanes and upgrading junctions is no longer feasible.”

L1011 · 11-10-2018 9:16am

And Sean O'Neill is American!

Cantona's Collars · 16-10-2018 2:24pm

Proposals to bring in lower speed limits at times on the M50 to try to reduce congestion. That would simply be unworkable. At many times the speed on the road is reduced to a crawl for mile after mile.
Recently I travelled southbound on a Sunday afternoon and the traffic came to a halt past Carrickmines,the cause-eejits jumping across from the overtaking lane to try and exit at Bray causing everyone behind them to brake and then we saw the concertina effect as traffic for miles behind simply stopped.

Bray Head · 16-10-2018 2:29pm

It's counter-intuitive but the lower the speed limit, the more capacity a road can carry.

I drove around Antwerp a few years back and saw very aggressive traffic management using variable speed restrictions on its ring-motorway.

Every few hundred metres was a speed limit sign which varied between 50 and 110 I think.

The traffic was very heavy and, although it came close to snarling, it never actually came to a crawl even with extremely heavy traffic.

Alun · 16-10-2018 2:32pm

Cantona's Collars wrote: »

Recently I travelled southbound on a Sunday afternoon and the traffic came to a halt past Carrickmines,the cause-eejits jumping across from the overtaking lane to try and exit at Bray causing everyone behind them to brake and then we saw the concertina effect as traffic for miles behind simply stopped.

Yes, it's crazy ... there's a whole 1.5km of sliproad between where the M11 joins to the Bray North exit for traffic to sort itself out into the right lane, more than enough if everyone planned ahead a little bit.

Bray Head · 16-10-2018 2:32pm

Kamili wrote: »

piece in the Journal about the number of incidents on the M50 since 2017

A spokesman for Transport Infrastructure Ireland said that with 50 million journeys a year, the motorway was no longer a ring road but rather within the city suburbs.

That is a bit silly. The M50 has been a conduit for traffic in and around Dublin since it was built.

Sam Russell · 16-10-2018 2:41pm

Bray Head wrote: »

It's counter-intuitive but the lower the speed limit, the more capacity a road can carry.

I read sometime ago that the Americans have found that 27 mph (43 kph) was the optimum speed for max throughput. Higher speed increases the space between vehicles, while slower speed does not.

If they put variable speed limits they need absolute monitoring and automatic enforcement. Otherwise the exercise is pointless. Average speed is the best system of enforcement.

Cantona's Collars · 16-10-2018 4:10pm

Alun wrote: »

Yes, it's crazy ... there's a whole 1.5km of sliproad between where the M11 joins to the Bray North exit for traffic to sort itself out into the right lane, more than enough if everyone planned ahead a little bit.

It's as if the people leaving the motorway didn't know where they were going until the last second.

Dravokivich · 16-10-2018 4:34pm

Bray Head wrote: »

It's counter-intuitive but the lower the speed limit, the more capacity a road can carry.

My experience of commuting on the M50, was that you get lower speeds at peak time anyway. Is it going to make a difference if the limit is reduced from 100, when the average speed during the period is substantially lower already?

16-10-2018 5:58pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

My experience of commuting on the M50, was that you get lower speeds at peak time anyway. Is it going to make a difference if the limit is reduced from 100, when the average speed during the period is substantially lower already?

The best thing variable speed limits can do is to stop vehicles flying into the back of congestion and braking sharply, causing more congestion.
Smoothing out the flow by preventing the Glug-glug effect caused by driving faster than the traffic ahead will help a lot.

Dravokivich · 16-10-2018 6:39pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The best thing variable speed limits can do is to stop vehicles flying into the back of congestion and braking sharply, causing more congestion.
Smoothing out the flow by preventing the Glug-glug effect caused by driving faster than the traffic ahead will help a lot.

That's more so a lack of attentiveness regarding the traffic ahead. I see that happening on the n7 and r136, where you've already got lower speed limits. I don't think they'll change a poor attitude to driving that we acknowledge is present.

Kermit.de.frog · 21-10-2018 7:14am

L1011 wrote: »

And Sean O'Neill is American!

He does not rule out expansion

He is just trying to ease you all in.

They can easily add an additional lane between the N4 and N7, N3 and N2, M1 and Ballymun. Plenty of space and no need to CPO. Inexpensive.

They could also build new individual flyovers at some junctions to enhance capacity at slips that are trouble spots. Again inexpensive.

One of the problems with the M50 upgrade was that the freeflow links were too short and tight.

Kermit.de.frog · 18-11-2018 11:20pm

https://twitter.com/CirtecCT/status/1063024512881569793

Translated

We're conducting tests #RARx on the #M50 Dublin!

These works, framed in the planning tasks of the M50 asphalt operation next year, constitute the first experience with our RARx tyre powder additive in Ireland

What's going on there? Are they planning to resurface the motorway?

Alkers · 19-11-2018 12:42am

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

What's going on there? Are they planning to resurface the motorway?

It's already started, there are some new sections of pavement with no road markings at the moment

Kermit.de.frog · 02-03-2019 12:49am

Elevated toll lanes with their own dedicated flyovers are the best solution to the M50 problem.

Works great in US. This would work on the M50. (from 1:42). Not only elevated but in trenches too!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y1kVbVt_Uk

Alkers · 02-03-2019 12:53am

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Works great in US. This would work on the M50. (from 1:42)

There's too many exits on the M50 and the existing exits are already constrained as it is without having to fit another set of onramps and off-ramps at each junction.

Spend the money on public transport

M50 thread

Comments