The WIP Fantasy Charter Discussion Thread

Dodge · 12-10-2011 12:20pm

adrian522 wrote: »

Thanks for this!!

The PPR league is on ESPN and the college football league is on CBS. The masin leagues (prem, div 1, div 2 etc) are all on NFL.com

Just to be clear, one of the reasons for doing this is that nfl.com has a limit of 3 on how many free games someone can join. I'm already in 3 nfl.com leagues so if the PPR was there, I'd have been blanked

GoldFour4 · 12-10-2011 12:48pm

Dodge wrote: »

Just to be clear, one of the reasons for doing this is that nfl.com has a limit of 3 on how many free games someone can join. I'm already in 3 nfl.com leagues so if the PPR was there, I'd have been blanked

I dont know why my account is different. I have 4 leagues on nfl.com and was in 5 previously.

Peyton Manning · 12-10-2011 12:49pm

Dodge wrote: »

Just to be clear, one of the reasons for doing this is that nfl.com has a limit of 3 on how many free games someone can join. I'm already in 3 nfl.com leagues so if the PPR was there, I'd have been blanked

Just so you know, you can join more than 3 leagues. I'm in 4 at the moment.

However I don't think additional leagues such as PPR should be restricted to NFL.com anyway. Only the main leagues which all need to follow the same format (Prem - Div 5) should.

tallaghtoutlaws · 12-10-2011 1:22pm

Cam Newton wrote: »

Just so you know, you can join more than 3 leagues. I'm in 4 at the moment.

Im in 5 on one of my NFL.com accounts so as CM said doesn't seem to be a restriction.

However I don't think additional leagues such as PPR should be restricted to NFL.com anyway. Only the main leagues which all need to follow the same format (Prem - Div 5) should.

Agreed. Some leagues are best suited to other formats than NFL.com

Frisbee · 12-10-2011 3:31pm

adrian522 wrote: »

Thanks for this!!

The PPR league is on ESPN and the college football league is on CBS. The masin leagues (prem, div 1, div 2 etc) are all on NFL.com

Apologies. Not in the PPR league so didn't know it wasn't NFL.

I knew the College one wasn't NFL and meant to state that was ok but didn't.

Essentially I meant to say the main Boards Divisions i.e. Prem, Div1, Div 2 etc. must be NFL.com.

Anything else that needs to be taken in or out?

Also apologies if my replies etc take a while to go up. Still living out of hostels atm so my net access is pretty intermittent.

D3PO · 12-10-2011 4:08pm

charter start looks good frisbiee

re relegation promotion though

6 teams make the playoffs so need to spell out promotion for the 4 that make the semis

re relegation should read any inactive players removed followed by those with the worst record to total 4 teams.

Peyton Manning · 12-10-2011 4:28pm

D3PO wrote: »

re relegation should read any inactive players removed followed by those with the worst record to total 4 teams.

I'm not sure about this, I don't think it's fair to those in the lower leagues to have the league above them's inactive cast offs dumped upon them.

SSK · 12-10-2011 4:46pm

IMO if you are inactive during a season, without any legitimate reason/notice then you should be removed from the leagues completely and start at the bottom like a new player. Relegation should then be the number of active players with the worst record required to bring the total number removed from the league to 4 with the 4 best teams being promoted up. I think thats what D3PO was getting at.

Peyton Manning · 12-10-2011 4:47pm

SSK wrote: »

IMO if you are inactive during a season, without any legitimate reason/notice then you should be removed from the leagues completely and start at the bottom like a new player. Relegation should then be the number of active players with the worst record required to bring the total number removed from the league to 4 with the 4 best teams being promoted up. I think thats what D3PO was getting at.

Ah, just re-read and it does seem like thats what he means. Never mind, nothing to see here, move along

Frisbee · 13-10-2011 10:11am

Yeah of the 6 teams that make the playoff's it will be the last four in that get promoted.

So then we'd have the 4 worst active players relegated. And any inactive players relegated also? I'd be more a fan of having any inactive players relegated and disallowed from competing the next season.

Dodge · 13-10-2011 11:40am

Cam Newton wrote: »

Just so you know, you can join more than 3 leagues. I'm in 4 at the moment.

However I don't think additional leagues such as PPR should be restricted to NFL.com anyway. Only the main leagues which all need to follow the same format (Prem - Div 5) should.

Hmmm, I must've ballsed up then. Thought I read it here too...

Either way i agree with your main point

Dodge · 13-10-2011 11:41am

Frisbee wrote: »

I'd be more a fan of having any inactive players relegated and disallowed from competing the next season.

Agreed. If they want to join back up, they should start at the bottom (if there's space) but preferably you wouldn't have them in any league

D3PO · 13-10-2011 12:58pm

Frisbee wrote: »

Yeah of the 6 teams that make the playoff's it will be the last four in that get promoted.

So then we'd have the 4 worst active players relegated. And any inactive players relegated also? I'd be more a fan of having any inactive players relegated and disallowed from competing the next season.

To clarify my point,

if you have 2 inactive players then its the 2 worst records relegated and the 2 inactives kicked totally

that leaves 4 places for promotion. you promoite the 4 from the league below and so on and so forth.

Peyton Manning · 13-10-2011 1:19pm

D3PO wrote: »

To clarify my point,

if you have 2 inactive players then its the 2 worst records relegated and the 2 inactives kicked totally

that leaves 4 places for promotion. you promoite the 4 from the league below and so on and so forth.

The 4 promoted teams would only get replaced by 2 relegated teams though. Wouldn't work.

D3PO · 13-10-2011 1:37pm

Cam Newton wrote: »

The 4 promoted teams would only get replaced by 2 relegated teams though. Wouldn't work.

yes it would because as with any pyramid structure you work from the top down hence why the promotion / relegation stiuation needs to be more specifically called out.

take the following scenario

prem

2 inactive kicked 2 worst records relegated.

div 1

top 4 promoted

4 relegated or 2 relegated depending on what we agree on (need this to be specified in the charter)

div 2

if 4 relegated from div 1 then top 6 promoted
if 2 relegated from div 1 then 4 promoted

and so on and so forth if you say 4 go up tht has to be your starting point with a minimum of 4 going up and everything else should work top down to fit that that means some teams might get a reprieve from relegation but long term it is the ebst way of getting the top teams into the top tiers.

SSK · 13-10-2011 1:47pm

Just a question...is there much inactivity in the leagues at present?

I don't think I've seen any teams ignoring bye weeks in Div 3 and most games seem very competitive. I'm assuming the top couple of divisions are likewise.

D3PO · 13-10-2011 1:50pm

SSK wrote: »

Just a question...is there much inactivity in the leagues at present?

I don't think I've seen any teams ignoring bye weeks in Div 3 and most games seem very competitive. I'm assuming the top couple of divisions are likewise.

check the owners link in your league to see the last owners login

click league then owners

In Division 1 we have 1 inactive for kicking out next Season everybody else has logged in in the past 6 days.

Bobo's Clowns last active Thu, Sep 15, 8:50am

Spongey1975 · 13-10-2011 2:46pm

If there is inactive players in whichever division (say 2 for example) then they are removed from the league and only 2 are relegated to lower division, The four promoted then will keep that division at 16. As for the division below as only 2 are coming down and four going up there leaves a shortfall of two. This can be fixed by only relegating 2 from that division and along with the four promoted teams will keep that division at 16. This goes on all the way to the bottom division.

D3PO · 13-10-2011 3:34pm

Spongey1975 wrote: »

If there is inactive players in whichever division (say 2 for example) then they are removed from the league and only 2 are relegated to lower division, The four promoted then will keep that division at 16. As for the division below as only 2 are coming down and four going up there leaves a shortfall of two. This can be fixed by only relegating 2 from that division and along with the four promoted teams will keep that division at 16. This goes on all the way to the bottom division.

Thats what I was trying to say albeit not very clearly

Frisbee · 17-10-2011 1:02pm

Ok so are people happy to roll with the charter I've posted above with the changes for relegation modified to essentially what Spongey has put so eloquently above?

Frisbee · 19-10-2011 5:11am

Yes / No?

The quicker we can all agree on a charter/rules the quicker I can get the forum open....

Raoul · 19-10-2011 9:41am

Frisbee wrote: »

Yes / No?

The quicker we can all agree on a charter/rules the quicker I can get the forum open....

Yeah!

D3PO · 19-10-2011 10:06am

yes

Benimar · 19-10-2011 10:31am

Yes!

SSK · 19-10-2011 10:37am

Yep

Spongey1975 · 19-10-2011 10:42am

Frisbee wrote: »

Yes / No?

The quicker we can all agree on a charter/rules the quicker I can get the forum open....

I'd say it will do to get the forum open but the rules governing the boards league (prem to div 5) will need to more detailed than that but since they wont be in place til next season there is no rush with them

tallaghtoutlaws · 19-10-2011 1:34pm

Yes.

Throw up a work in progress charter for the leagues themselves and you can then throw up a discussion thread to get the final rules for the League nailed in place.

SSK · 19-10-2011 1:46pm

Sorry I meant to mention one thing earlier.

If the leagues are to remain as 16 team divisions then the idea of including a flex starter somewhere should be definitely discussed. Particularly during the bye week, putting out competitive teams is very tough. I do like the 16 team divisions though because of how competitive it is.

Just something that can be discussed further down the line I suppose.

tallaghtoutlaws · 19-10-2011 1:57pm

SSK wrote: »

Sorry I meant to mention one thing earlier.

If the leagues are to remain as 16 team divisions then the idea of including a flex starter somewhere should be definitely discussed. Particularly during the bye week, putting out competitive teams is very tough. I do like the 16 team divisions though because of how competitive it is.

Just something that can be discussed further down the line I suppose.

The flex position was discussed at length last July before the leagues were setup. Although I see no reason why it can't be brought up again.

I for one would be against it. The only flex I would be half for would be WR/TE

Also don't forget every team struggles with their bye week so its a level playing field.

adrian522 · 19-10-2011 1:57pm

It was discussed before the season and a vote was taken, it was decided there would be no flex,

I presume a fresh vote can be taken next year, but if there is a flex option and people are typically taking an additional RB then there will be very little RB's floating around on waivers.

EDIT: What TO said.

D3PO · 19-10-2011 2:06pm

totalyl agree with Adrian and TO Im against flex but if in the interests of democracy it needs to be voted on again so be it.

SSK · 19-10-2011 2:50pm

I know it was discussed prior to this season but I think this season is the first that most people have played 16 team leagues and that peoples perspective may have changed.

I really don't think that it would impact the amount of players on the waiver wire. All of the best players are rostered at the start, decent players only pop up on the waiver wire due to injuries etc. Perhaps drafting strategy would change slightly but the players drafted wouldn't really change imo.

That said, its just another issue that should be raised prior to next year. Personally I can see the pros and cons of both flex and no flex.

Peyton Manning · 19-10-2011 3:01pm

I'd probably vote for WR/TE flex for next season when the discussion arises tbh.

D3PO · 19-10-2011 3:24pm

SSK wrote: »

I know it was discussed prior to this season but I think this season is the first that most people have played 16 team leagues and that peoples perspective may have changed.

I really don't think that it would impact the amount of players on the waiver wire. All of the best players are rostered at the start, decent players only pop up on the waiver wire due to injuries etc. Perhaps drafting strategy would change slightly but the players drafted wouldn't really change imo.

That said, its just another issue that should be raised prior to next year. Personally I can see the pros and cons of both flex and no flex.

16 team leagues are complex enough as it is and you definatly change the dynamic by having a flex starter aswell. Im happy to vote on it again and I expect that most people would agree Flex is a bad idea.

Johnny_Fontane · 20-10-2011 6:51am

Why not reduce the number of wr's to two and then introduce a flex....

Frisbee · 20-10-2011 7:07am

Ok I've opened the forum so we can use it this year. I've also outlined a fairly rough charter and set of rules in the charter thread

This thread will be for the discussion of rules and guidelines so we can have an airtight charter and set of rules going into the 12/13 season.

tallaghtoutlaws · 20-10-2011 9:05am

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

Why not reduce the number of wr's to two and then introduce a flex....

Well thats what normally happens when you use the flex. It was voted on last July and No Flex won by a landslide. The next one closest to it was WR/TE flex.

eagle eye · 22-10-2011 12:35am

Cam Newton wrote: »

Inactivity shouldn't be punished on the forum, but given the circumstances, those who are inactive should move to the back of the queue for all divisions for the following year.

I just came on to read this thread but I really don't have time to be posting about FF on here with any regularity anymore. I do post occasionally in the AF forum and I always update my team on the NFL site. I don't think there should be anything regarding posting in this sub-forum moving you to the 'back of the queue' stuff. I was against this forum from the outset if you remember as I think FF will not be as popular on here because of it.

Peyton Manning · 22-10-2011 1:45am

eagle eye wrote: »

I just came on to read this thread but I really don't have time to be posting about FF on here with any regularity anymore. I do post occasionally in the AF forum and I always update my team on the NFL site. I don't think there should be anything regarding posting in this sub-forum moving you to the 'back of the queue' stuff. I was against this forum from the outset if you remember as I think FF will not be as popular on here because of it.

Nothing to do with this forum, I'm talking about inactivity as in not managing your team, not activity on the forum. Surely you didn't think I meant the latter?

eagle eye · 22-10-2011 3:59am

Cam Newton wrote: »

Nothing to do with this forum, I'm talking about inactivity as in not managing your team, not activity on the forum. Surely you didn't think I meant the latter?

Yes I did, it wasn't clear.

Peyton Manning · 22-10-2011 11:05am

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes I did, it wasn't clear.

Well it is now

GoldFour4 · 07-12-2011 4:53pm

Just a little suggstion for next season lads. When the new thread is opened to find out whether people are in or out they should have to post in the forum to say so. I don't think a pm to a member saying their back in is enough. Having someone physically post in the thread allows a gm easy access to them instead of having to search for them.

CoachTO · 01-08-2012 4:04pm

As discussed a couple of times in the Fantasy thread. A deadline date for people to sign up to their league on NFL.com should also be setup alongside the cut off point for confirming into your league by July 31st. Maybe 7 days after the 31st?

Also as EE brought up that something put in the charter for next year to say ALL must confirm their participation on the thread by logging into their Boards accounts and posting on Thread. This will clear all confusion about participation.

A_Sober_Paddy · 01-08-2012 7:36pm

CoachTO wrote: »

As discussed a couple of times in the Fantasy thread. A deadline date for people to sign up to their league on NFL.com should also be setup alongside the cut off point for confirming into your league by July 31st. Maybe 7 days after the 31st?

Also as EE brought up that something put in the charter for next year to say ALL must confirm their participation on the thread by logging into their Boards accounts and posting on Thread. This will clear all confusion about participation.

Stealing my idea now are we:D

BigBadRob83 · 02-08-2012 12:41pm

CoachTO wrote: »

Im not sure I understand what you want you think should be written in the charter with regards the make up of the divisions and newbies. I agree the perfect world would have skill sets defining leagues but as I said above we can't judge whether someone with 1 post or 1000 posts is better at fantasy.

"Open spaces in leagues are on first come, first serve basis." Simple and clear.

poldebruin · 03-08-2012 4:30pm

Not sure if this has been discussed - but is there a cleverer way of rejigging the leagues when a person pulls out or does not respond? i.e If all leagues are set up and somebody drops out of Division 1, all 6 divisions below it are affected.

Speaking as someone who has not arranged any of the leagues myself (and a big hats off to all that have given their time and effort to maintain the league) it seems it would make life a bit easier for the admin/setup of the league

As the divisions were originally set up quite arbitrarily as opposed to on merit, would it not be simpler to add a new user in their place. In spite of all the talk of "promotion and relegation", the divisions system (will eventually) only reflect the chances that the participants will be more active throughout the season.

CoachTO · 03-08-2012 4:34pm

poldebruin wrote: »

As the divisions were originally set up quite arbitrarily as opposed to on merit, would it not be simpler to add a new user in their place. In spite of all the talk of "promotion and relegation", the divisions system (will eventually) only reflect the chances that the participants will be more active throughout the season.

No to this. As we are trying to establish Promotion and Relegation it would be unfair for a new user just to pop into a spot when someone drops out. The system we have now is the simplist format in my eyes. It takes two minutes to kick someone out of a league and 2 mins to send the details to the newly promoted guy.

It might not be setup on merit but having some sort of merit within the setup for already established leagues makes it that more fun. Simply put if you are good enough and win your league you move up.

johnmcdnl · 03-08-2012 4:58pm

poldebruin wrote: »

Not sure if this has been discussed - but is there a cleverer way of rejigging the leagues when a person pulls out or does not respond? i.e If all leagues are set up and somebody drops out of Division 1, all 6 divisions below it are affected.

Speaking as someone who has not arranged any of the leagues myself (and a big hats off to all that have given their time and effort to maintain the league) it seems it would make life a bit easier for the admin/setup of the league

As the divisions were originally set up quite arbitrarily as opposed to on merit, would it not be simpler to add a new user in their place. In spite of all the talk of "promotion and relegation", the divisions system (will eventually) only reflect the chances that the participants will be more active throughout the season.

The players who are getting "free" promotions lets call them have gotten the promotions due to finishing high enough in the Division below the year before. It shows that they are committed players and we know as a rule of thumb they will be active. New players are unknown with all due respect to new players. I know lots of new players will be great and will work hard at their teams but if you just throw a new player into the Premier Division say and they end up being inactive it kinda makes a joke of the ladder system we currently have. Ideally in my books at least you earn your right to play in the higher divisions. After all what's to say you couldn't strategically make a new account and jump into a position in a higher league. Just makes the whole fighting for promotions a bit less worthwhile if your just going to end up having a new player jump into a slot above you.

I do think for next year it would be a better idea for GM's to leave the NFL leagues alone and don't invite players until the divisions have been fully sorted out. Have sign ups and confirmations up to the 31st July as normal. Then see who's active and who isn't and sort all the divisions and new GM's out then. Then start inviting players to the leagues on NFL.com. That would leave life a lot easier for the GM's maybe.

As for the arbitrary natural of the league setup right now - perhaps as a though for discussion and idea could be that this year is used as a ranking for next year's Divisions. The top 2 in each division get put in the Premier division next year say. These players are obviously the cream of the crop. Next 2 go in the next division etc etc. We then have a league ladder that has been once and for all determined by actual skill levels of the players. After this any new signups would have to go to the bottom of the ladder and work their way up.

This method could also be weighted because in fairness to the guys in the top Divisions when you look at their names you recognise them immediately as long term posters from here who obviously know their stuff. So maybe top 4 from the top 2 divisions, 3 from the next 2 2 and 1 makes up Premier division next year, and so on and so on.

Just an idea that could be workable. Haven't though about the ins and outs of it but as a general template might be workable??

poldebruin · 03-08-2012 5:03pm

CoachTO wrote: »

No to this. As we are trying to establish Promotion and Relegation it would be unfair for a new user just to pop into a spot when someone drops out. The system we have now is the simplist format in my eyes. It takes two minutes to kick someone out of a league and 2 mins to send the details to the newly promoted guy.

...yes, and multiply that by 6 all the way down the line. It may take 2 minutes to kick someone and two minutes to invite someone, but you may need to wait for that invite to be acknowledged and accepted (once again, all the way down the line)

Maybe it is as simple as you say, but looking at the thread it seems a little long-winded.

CoachTO wrote: »

It might not be setup on merit but having some sort of merit within the setup for already established leagues makes it that more fun. Simply put if you are good enough and win your league you move up.

The Promotion/Relegation thing might mean something to some of the users, but for me it's about trying to win the league you're in and having as much particiation as possible. Once the season starts I pay no attention to the other leagues, in fact I'd stay in the same league every year if it was competitive and had good participation rates from the owners. It would make for a nice build up in rivalry, familiarity, banter etc.

poldebruin · 03-08-2012 5:17pm

johnmcdnl wrote: »

The players who are getting "free" promotions lets call them have gotten the promotions due to finishing high enough in the Division below the year before. It shows that they are committed players and we know as a rule of thumb they will be active. New players are unknown with all due respect to new players. I know lots of new players will be great and will work hard at their teams but if you just throw a new player into the Premier Division say and they end up being inactive it kinda makes a joke of the ladder system we currently have. Ideally in my books at least you earn your right to play in the higher divisions. After all what's to say you couldn't strategically make a new account and jump into a position in a higher league. Just makes the whole fighting for promotions a bit less worthwhile if your just going to end up having a new player jump into a slot above you.

Oh I agree, that's certainly the argument for the current system, and it has it's merits. I wonder is it better to have 6 leagues with 2 inactives in each, or 4 upper leagues with no inactives and 2 lower leagues that are filled with inactives. Again, I don't put much heed in the promotion/relegation portion of the set up, as long as there is a good competitive division.

johnmcdnl wrote: »

I do think for next year it would be a better idea for GM's to leave the NFL leagues alone and don't invite players until the divisions have been fully sorted out. Have sign ups and confirmations up to the 31st July as normal. Then see who's active and who isn't and sort all the divisions and new GM's out then. Then start inviting players to the leagues on NFL.com. That would leave life a lot easier for the GM's maybe.

As for the arbitrary natural of the league setup right now - perhaps as a though for discussion and idea could be that this year is used as a ranking for next year's Divisions. The top 2 in each division get put in the Premier division next year say. These players are obviously the cream of the crop. Next 2 go in the next division etc etc. We then have a league ladder that has been once and for all determined by actual skill levels of the players. After this any new signups would have to go to the bottom of the ladder and work their way up.

This method could also be weighted because in fairness to the guys in the top Divisions when you look at their names you recognise them immediately as long term posters from here who obviously know their stuff. So maybe top 4 from the top 2 divisions, 3 from the next 2 2 and 1 makes up Premier division next year, and so on and so on.

Just an idea that could be workable. Haven't though about the ins and outs of it but as a general template might be workable??

That's an interesting suggestion. If it were to have any legs perhaps the correct timing to discuss would be before the current season starts....i.e. the outcome of this season would have a bearing on the set up for next.

The WIP Fantasy Charter Discussion Thread

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