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Can you be a carnivore and care about animals?

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    #62
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Here's a hypothetical:
    Mountain gorillas are one of the most endangered animals on Earth.
    If we could reverse this by successfully breeding them for meat by the billion should we?


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    #63
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    auspicious wrote: »
    Here's a hypothetical:
    Mountain gorillas are one of the most endangered animals on Earth.
    If we could reverse this by successfully breeding them for meat by the billion should we?

    Is that you David Quinn?


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    auspicious wrote: »
    Here's a hypothetical:
    Mountain gorillas are one of the most endangered animals on Earth.
    If we could reverse this by successfully breeding them for meat by the billion should we?

    I once had a conversation with group of Chinese people, where I suggested that we eat a Panda. You should have seen the horror in their eyes at such a suggestion, and these would be people who eat all manner of animals, insects, etc. Some animals just aren't acceptable for eating.. Although I figure Panda steak would be pretty tasty.

    I suspect Gorillas would be considered such in Europe..


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    #65
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    auspicious wrote: »
    Here's a hypothetical:
    Mountain gorillas are one of the most endangered animals on Earth.
    If we could reverse this by successfully breeding them for meat by the billion should we?

    Even putting aside the apparent imminent health risks, it'd be a no from me.


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    #66
    AllForIt
    Registered Users Posts: 8,298 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    It does bug me too as a meat eater.

    But I think humans are just as natural as animals. Insects, birds, mammals eat other creatures all the time. We do the same thing but because we are more intelligent we are able to farm them.

    As long as we farm them in 'humane' conditions I'm fine with it. But that does not always happen at all.

    Having said that I'm completely against the slaughter of piglets and lambs. I'd happily give up those options to at least let them live to their animal 'adulthood'.


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    #67
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    I'm still searching for tuna safe dolphin chunks in my local supermarket. They never seem to stock them! :(

    Can anyone point me in the right direction, for ethically sourced tuna safe dolphins chunks? (In brine or sunflower oil - either is fine)

    I just don't want to harm those poor little innocent tuna fishies in my pursuit for tasty dolphin meat. It's very important to me! :D


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    #68
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    What I think though, would be a more interesting question, is to propose more higher animal welfare practices as a legal minimum, acknowledging the rising cost of meat.

    Where would we stand if people with less means could not afford chicken for their kids?


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    #69
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I once had a conversation with group of Chinese people, where I suggested that we eat a Panda. You should have seen the horror in their eyes at such a suggestion, and these would be people who eat all manner of animals, insects, etc. Some animals just aren't acceptable for eating.. Although I figure Panda steak would be pretty tasty.

    I suspect Gorillas would be considered such in Europe..

    It's all down to cognitive dissonance so.
    But if anyone would answer the question I'm interested to hear them out.


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    #70
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    I'm still searching for tuna safe dolphin chunks in my local supermarket. They never seem to stock them! :(

    Can anyone point me in the right direction, for ethically sourced tuna safe dolphins chunks? (In brine or sunflower oil - either is fine)

    I just don't want to harm those poor little innocent tuna fishies in my pursuit for tasty dolphin meat. It's very important to me! :D

    Just look for the MSC label. Even LIDL sell them. That covers it, no?

    Edit: you right blackguard. Got me there. :)


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    #71
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    I'm still searching for tuna safe dolphin chunks in my local supermarket. They never seem to stock them! :(

    Can anyone point me in the right direction, for ethically sourced tuna safe dolphins chunks? (In brine or sunflower oil - either is fine)

    I just don't want to harm those poor little innocent tuna fishies in my pursuit for tasty dolphin meat. It's very important to me! :D

    Yeah I really hate the way they bury all those beached whales. Chop those ****ers up I say. A bowl of chowder yum.


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    #72
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Even putting aside the apparent imminent health risks, it'd be a no from me.

    What health risks? They'd be Bord Bia approved.


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    #73
    Kylta
    Registered Users Posts: 15,457 ✭✭✭✭Kylta


    auspicious wrote: »
    Here's a hypothetical:
    Mountain gorillas are one of the most endangered animals on Earth.
    If we could reverse this by successfully breeding them for meat by the billion should we?

    Yes I'd have no problem eating them. Before anybody goes down the path of saying their closest animals to humans well I don't care if their fit for human consumption put them and the panda on the plate. I would go so far as to say if their was a global catastrophe disaster tomorrow that let to famine. I would eat human flesh and wouldn't think twice of it.


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    #74
    Church on Tuesday
    Registered Users Posts: 3,858 ✭✭✭Church on Tuesday


    auspicious wrote: »
    Are you one of those intelligent design advocates?

    Wut?


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    #75
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    Kylta wrote: »
    Yes I'd have no problem eating them. Before anybody goes down the path of saying their closest animals to humans well I don't care if their fit for human consumption put them and the panda on the plate. I would go so far as to say if their was a global catastrophe disaster tomorrow that let to famine. I would eat human flesh and wouldn't think twice of it.

    :eek: You animal..!!

    Only an animal would contemplate eating human flesh.

    No wait, now I'm confused. :pac:


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    #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Having said that I'm completely against the slaughter of piglets and lambs. I'd happily give up those options to at least let them live to their animal 'adulthood'.

    Lamb is mean. Mutton is nuttin. For Hogget im on it :)


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    #77
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    auspicious wrote: »
    What health risks? They'd be Bord Bia approved.

    Scientists reckon it's a matter of when, not if, we're going to get HIV 2.0 from consuming our dear cousins. That's on top of the other viruses and diseases they're known to carry.

    Anyway, to answer the question, I'd let them go extinct gracefully.

    I'd have no qualms with eating a gorilla in and of itself though.


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    #78
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Scientists reckon it's a matter of when, not if, we're going to get HIV 2.0 from consuming our dear cousins. That's on top of the other viruses and diseases they're known to carry.

    Anyway, to answer the question, I'd let them go extinct gracefully.

    I'd have no qualms with eating a gorilla in and of itself though.

    Dunno why they need to be allowed to go extinct.. it's not one or the other. We can eat the meat of select animals, while ensuring the survival of entire species that we have no actual interest in eating.


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    #79
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Dunno why they need to be allowed to go extinct.. it's not one or the other. We can eat the meat of select animals, while ensuring the survival of entire species that we have no actual interest in eating.

    And our interest in eating selected animals is derived how?
    From an early age?


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    #80
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    dear cousins.

    /quote]

    What makes them so dear?
    What about breeding by the billion the highly endangered Asian elephants for protein instead?


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    #81
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I don't get the logic that says eating meat is morally wrong.

    It's not so much the individual at the end of the chain eating meat as the harm to the environment and unnecessary suffering that animals may be subjected to.

    I don't think we need to consider it in terms of absolutes of moral/immoral though. There is a big difference between intensively farmed meat and shooting a rabbit for the stew.


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    #82
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    You can definitely eat meat and feel like you love an animal, but if you actually loved them and not just what they can do for you, you wouldn't hurt them. Nobody likes to think they are hurting others and people like to defend their own actions. I grew up on farms, I thought I cared for the animals - in a lot of ways I did but I really started caring for them when I stopped partaking in harming them as much as I could. Putting their wellbeing before my appetite.


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    #83
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Trouble is through long standing societal norms and indifferent attitudes the wellbeing of one animal supercedes the wellbeing of another without thought.


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    #84
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,903 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    These topics are kinda hard work.

    But off you go OP and either be carnivore or pretend not to be who cares?


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    #85
    SouthWesterly
    Registered Users Posts: 6,506 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Quiet possible

    I had friends over for dinner this evening (within guideline's)

    Everything on the table was from my garden including the chicken I raised and killed.
    It was well looked after for its short life.


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    #86
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    These topics are kinda hard work.

    But off you go OP and either be carnivore or pretend not to be who cares?

    They are hard work for the majority as the majority tend to do mental gymnastics to not feel bad about their everyday choices.


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    #87
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    You can definitely eat meat and feel like you love an animal, but if you actually loved them and not just what they can do for you, you wouldn't hurt them. Nobody likes to think they are hurting others and people like to defend their own actions. I grew up on farms, I thought I cared for the animals - in a lot of ways I did but I really started caring for them when I stopped partaking in harming them as much as I could. Putting their wellbeing before my appetite.

    There are farms, in the traditional sense, that do care for their animals, and slaughter them in a caring way, whereby the animal is not stressed and I would consider that an ethical way of producing meat.

    Of course there is a big premium paid on that product, which is exactly why the animal is treated as such.

    So I think there is a way of ethically producing meat, but it will always be expensive.

    That's why I brought up the scenario of how do poor families feed their children.

    And then there is the very valid opinion that it is ethically wrong to unnecessary take the life of an animal.


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    #88
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    auspicious wrote: »
    And our interest in eating selected animals is derived how?
    From an early age?

    IMO Tends to be cultural... I've seen the difference due to moving from Europe to Asia. Different perspectives as to what is acceptable, probably based on availability and traditional customs.


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    #89
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,115 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    SouthWesterly wrote: »
    Quiet possible

    I had friends over for dinner this evening (within guideline's)

    Everything on the table was from my garden including the chicken I raised and killed.
    It was well looked after for its short life.

    That's an example of how it can be done.
    Not scalable of course.

    I think most of the ethical problem lies with industrial scale rearing of animals for cheap meat.


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    #90
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,362 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    What I want to know is if vegans feel guilty mowing their lawns ?


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    #91
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    It's not so much the individual at the end of the chain eating meat as the harm to the environment and unnecessary suffering that animals may be subjected to.

    I don't think we need to consider it in terms of absolutes of moral/immoral though. There is a big difference between intensively farmed meat and shooting a rabbit for the stew.

    Or the more traditional farm set ups? I saw my grandparents kill the animals on their farm. It was practiced and straightforward. They tended the animals well, and killed the animals without intending any suffering to occur.

    So the issue is more about mass production/slaughter of meat for the consumer market.


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