Can you be a carnivore and care about animals?

ancapailldorcha

I've seen this cropping up more and more in some discussions online whereby anyone who criticises or condemns animal cruelty will often be met with comments that people who eat meat are either hypocrites or are incapable of sincerely caring about animals.

I eat meat. I'm one of those people who learned to make about half a dozen meals and stopped because that was sufficient. I like meat if I'm going to be honest but I do concede that consuming it is horrible for the environment and morally dubious at best.

I grew up on a sheep farm and we always tried to treat the animals properly. They were vaccinated, checked for parasites, etc but otherwise left alone most days of the year. We'd take them in for winter and they'd be fed silage and meal pellets but that's not a good example of the sort of huge scale meat production you see in more industrialised and post-industrialised countries like the USA and China. 

I don't really know then. Is the question of this thread's title valid?

I think you can.

It's the circle of life. Humans are omnivores.

I endeavour to buy meat that has been hunted rather than meat that has been sent to a slaughterhouse. I could personally never kill the animal myself, but I think it's more humane to have been hunted.

What a lot of vegans/vegetarians fail to grasp is that a large number of animals are killed in order to provide them with their food.

Kylta

I like animals, was brought up with a vast array of pets. But I like meat and have no problem eating sheep, cow, pig, deer, fish, etc. I respect anybodys right to abstain or indugle in whatever their beliefs are, has long as they keep their beliefs to themselves and don't try to foist their beliefs on me.
But I often wonder if their was a famine andpeople were starving to death all around, would vegans turn their noses up a meat and fish foods.

1990sman

long pig could be back on the menu soon

JasonStatham

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I've seen this cropping up more and more in some discussions online whereby anyone who criticises or condemns animal cruelty will often be met with comments that people who eat meat are either hypocrites or are incapable of sincerely caring about animals.

I eat meat. I'm one of those people who learned to make about half a dozen meals and stopped because that was sufficient. I like meat if I'm going to be honest but I do concede that consuming it is horrible for the environment and morally dubious at best.

I grew up on a sheep farm and we always tried to treat the animals properly. They were vaccinated, checked for parasites, etc but otherwise left alone most days of the year. We'd take them in for winter and they'd be fed silage and meal pellets but that's not a good example of the sort of huge scale meat production you see in more industrialised and post-industrialised countries like the USA and China. 

I don't really know then. Is the question of this thread's title valid?

What about one of them Lions hunting down a gazelle.

I source my meat as ethically as possible. I hunt my own rabbit around when and where I can. I fish. I keep animals on my own land and treat them as well as I can. I usually keep my own christmas goose or geese for example. And since I prefer hogget to lamb or mutton I have also been working on keeping them too.

When I buy meat I do the best I can to source it ethically. I do not rush in and buy the cheapest lamb off the shelf from new zealand or buy the best tesco discount chicken nuggets. I have a good relationship with two of my local butchers and I do the best I can to get meat I can trace to ethical farming.

That said I do not refuse to eat badly farmed meat. I hate food waste. Meat waste most of all. I would prefer to go around a room and finish the meat on many peoples plates than see a shred of it go in the bin. And I have tried to teach my kids the same thing. Whether it is meat on their plate - or a rabbit they are petting that I caught and intend to process into meals - I try to instill in them a full respect from where that food comes from. It is not something that comes conveniently packaged on a shelf in a shop for them. It was an animal that lived and died with it's own personality and set of priorities.

SlowMotion321

Veggie / Vegan food is what real food eats!

smellyoldboot

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I've seen this cropping up more and more in some discussions online whereby anyone who criticises or condemns animal cruelty will often be met with comments that people who eat meat are either hypocrites or are incapable of sincerely caring about animals.

I eat meat. I'm one of those people who learned to make about half a dozen meals and stopped because that was sufficient. I like meat if I'm going to be honest but I do concede that consuming it is horrible for the environment and morally dubious at best.

I grew up on a sheep farm and we always tried to treat the animals properly. They were vaccinated, checked for parasites, etc but otherwise left alone most days of the year. We'd take them in for winter and they'd be fed silage and meal pellets but that's not a good example of the sort of huge scale meat production you see in more industrialised and post-industrialised countries like the USA and China. 

I don't really know then. Is the question of this thread's title valid?

I'm pretty sure they taste better when they've been fed a decent diet and been well looked after. I see no conflict of interest at all.

Bullocks

Of course you can. I love meat and love animals.
I farm sheep and beef and wouldn't sleep well at night if I thought they weren't in good health.

Gregor Samsa

You can be anything you want to be.

Rubberchikken

I love meat even though I actually don't eat that much of it when I stop and think.

But I adore animals also. Other than my kids I just about put up with the humans I come into contact with. I work in the medical field and experience human death on a regular basis. It doesn't phase me in the least.

But the thought of anything happening to an animal greatly upsets me.

I have spoken sternly to people that I have seen being unnecessarily harsh with their dogs. I would never stand by and watch anyone treat an animal unkindly.
Humans tend to bore and tire me.

Animals bring me joy.

Dravokivich

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

You can be anything you want to be.

You may grow up to be a fish.

touts

I care about animals. But most only exist because they will ultimately be eaten. These animal rights campaigners who seem to think that we should return to having vast herds of cattle and sheep roaming free and happy across the Irish countryside like God intended clearly have no concept of just how stupid and dependent on humans these animals are. 99.99% would starve to death or succumb to disease were it not for the farmers who look after them. So I say give as many of them as possible the best possible existence and then slap them up on my plate.

RandomViewer

We don't eat cats and dogs or donkeys, it's usually cruelty to these that make the headlines

andekwarhola

Humans are omnivores and we're in a food chain, so no.

If I lived somewhere with apex animal predators, I'd accept that I might get eaten too.

Meeoow

I've recently gone sort of vegetarian for health and animal welfare reasons. I still eat fish, but make sure its not farmed fish. I used to buy free range chicken, and the taste of it compared to cheap chickens is day and night.
But as a poster above said, what really is shocking, is people buying a big plate of food, picking at it, then scraping it into the bin.
I just want to shout at them to think of the poor animal that had a sh1t life, then a sh1t death, and ends up in the bin.

ancapailldorcha

Meeoow wrote: »

I've recently gone sort of vegetarian for health and animal welfare reasons. I still eat fish, but make sure its not farmed fish. I used to buy free range chicken, and the taste of it compared to cheap chickens is day and night.
But as a poster above said, what really is shocking, is people buying a big plate of food, picking at it, then scraping it into the bin.
I just want to shout at them to think of the poor animal that had a sh1t life, then a sh1t death, and ends up in the bin.

Yeah, I really find food waste to be abominable. I can't remember the last time I discarded meat. If I buy it I always eat it.

s1ippy

Meeoow wrote: »

I've recently gone sort of vegetarian for health and animal welfare reasons. I still eat fish, but make sure its not farmed fish. I used to buy free range chicken, and the taste of it compared to cheap chickens is day and night.
But as a poster above said, what really is shocking, is people buying a big plate of food, picking at it, then scraping it into the bin.
I just want to shout at them to think of the poor animal that had a sh1t life, then a sh1t death, and ends up in the bin.

On another note, I defrosted some lamb the other day and thought "this could have been mutton by now".

Uriel.

touts wrote: »

I care about animals. But most only exist because they will ultimately be eaten. These animal rights campaigners who seem to think that we should return to having vast herds of cattle and sheep roaming free and happy across the Irish countryside like God intended clearly have no concept of just how stupid and dependent on humans these animals are. 99.99% would starve to death or succumb to disease were it not for the farmers who look after them. So I say give as many of them as possible the best possible existence and then slap them up on my plate.

Wouldn't most of them be in danger of disease etc because of human intervention in the first instance. Aren't we the source of many of the problems to begin with.
Animals depend on us because we create the dependency.

Uriel.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think you can.

It's the circle of life. Humans are omnivores.

I endeavour to buy meat that has been hunted rather than meat that has been sent to a slaughterhouse. I could personally never kill the animal myself, but I think it's more humane to have been hunted.

What a lot of vegans/vegetarians fail to grasp is that a large number of animals are killed in order to provide them with their food.

As a matter of interest. Where do you source hunted meat and what is ethically sourced meat and what does that even mean.

We got half a freezer of venison last year from a local farmer who culls wild deer herds. Is that the sort of thing you are taking about?

ThewhiteJesus

I’ll only eat mistreated animals that were tortured to death

ThewhiteJesus

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

I’ll only eat mistreated animals that were tortured to death

Messiah steaks. Hmmmm.

McGinniesta

Carnivores have to eat too

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I eat meat. I'm one of those people who learned to make about half a dozen meals and stopped because that was sufficient. I like meat if I'm going to be honest but I do concede that consuming it is horrible for the environment and morally dubious at best.

Why is it morally dubious? Morals tend to be individualistic in nature, so, people pushing the belief that it's morally wrong are simply pushing that their morals are more important than other peoples. no?

Sorry. I don't get the logic that says eating meat is morally wrong. I can understand the biological/scientific arguments that might suggest that it's unhealthy (although i'll probably continue eating it anyway)

Church on Tuesday

Well some animals just happen to be delicious and as a human being with teeth designed for eating meat, I have no problem in the slightest with eating them.

auspicious

Circle of life. Isn't that an Elton John song in The Lion King?

auspicious

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Well some animals just happen to be delicious and as a human being with teeth designed for eating meat, I have no problem in the slightest with eating them.

Are you one of those intelligent design advocates?

McGinniesta

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

I’ll only eat mistreated animals that were tortured to death

I have a juicy steak ready for tomorrows nosebag.

I'll probably have a couple of sausages for brekkie.

I also like cake and tits.

1990sman

we probably wouldnt be here talking about it if our ancestors didnt eat meat, next time u meet a rasher or steak u should probably kneel and thank it.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it morally dubious? Morals tend to be individualistic in nature, so, people pushing the belief that it's morally wrong are simply pushing that their morals are more important than other peoples. no?

Sorry. I don't get the logic that says eating meat is morally wrong. I can understand the biological/scientific arguments that might suggest that it's unhealthy (although i'll probably continue eating it anyway)

Animals feel pain and the meat industry isn't renowned for being kind to them.

I'm not really pushing anything. I was just asking what people thought. As I said, I consume meat regularly.

auspicious

1990sman wrote: »

we probably wouldnt be here talking about it if our ancestors didnt eat meat, next time u meet a rasher or steak u should probably kneel and thank it.

Isn't it the fat and not actually the animal protein that gave us the larger brains? Easier ways to get it these days.

McGinniesta

auspicious wrote: »

Isn't it the fat and not actually the animal protein that gave us the larger brains? Easier ways to get it these days.

I should then have a 300 iq brain at least.

False Prophet

Can you be vegan/vegetarian and care for carnivore pets?

auspicious

Deleted User wrote: »

Why is it morally dubious? Morals tend to be individualistic in nature, so, people pushing the belief that it's morally wrong are simply pushing that their morals are more important than other peoples. no?

Sorry. I don't get the logic that says eating meat is morally wrong. I can understand the biological/scientific arguments that might suggest that it's unhealthy (although i'll probably continue eating it anyway)

Well if we can't agree on a standard of morals , well to hell with everything so.
The act of eating meat, imo, isn't morally wrong. It just all the stuff that happens to get it to the plate is morally wrong.

jaxxx

False Prophet wrote: »

Can you be vegan/vegetarian and care for carnivore pets?

For the record, anyone that tries to force a vegetarian diet on a dog/cat/etc [i.e. natural carnivores] needs to brought up on animal welfare charges and banned from ever having animals again. Supplementing with veg is fine, but strictly only veg based food? If I find anyone like that, I'll feed them to the animal instead!

Kylta

How can a vegan eat vegan stew. Don't you need to chop up a vegan to put it in the stew in the first place. I mean i'm confused they don't eat meat but they eat their own. Now that's weird.

auspicious

False Prophet wrote: »

Can you be vegan/vegetarian and care for carnivore pets?

Carnivore pets that were domesticated and then abandoned and treated with indifference can be be cared for and given a quality of life which they are unable to sustain on their own. Yes.

auspicious

Kylta wrote: »

How can a vegan eat vegan stew. Don't you need to chop up a vegan to put it in the stew in the first place. I mean i'm confused they don't eat meat but they eat their own. Now that's weird.

Salt and pepper is essential.

the purple tin

Dravokivich wrote: »

You may grow up to be a fish.

Or a giant cockroach.

Kylta

Actually I don't know if this is off topic, but how can vegan give their partner head, if they don't eat meat. I mean is a sausage a sausage or what?

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Animals feel pain and the meat industry isn't renowned for being kind to them.

I'm not really pushing anything. I was just asking what people thought. As I said, I consume meat regularly.

So, it's morally wrong because animals feel pain? Err. I'm still not seeing the moral problem here.

In any case, I'd feel that people will do what they want, and as long as it's legal, I don't have much patience for people telling me that it's wrong to do so. They'd have little patience with me picking something from their live style that I might dislike.. and I'm pretty sure I could find something easily enough. IMO It's best to leave people be... as long as it's legal.

Not aiming that at you btw... I've encountered hostile vegans before, and didn't have much patience with their outrage, and drama.

Kylta

Kylta wrote: »

Actually I don't know if this is off topic, but how can vegan give their partner head, if they don't eat meat. I mean is a sausage a sausage or what?

They're not eating/digesting the sausage, and protein in sperm, isn't meat. So...

Kylta

Deleted User wrote: »

They're not eating/digesting the sausage, and protein in sperm, isn't meat. So...

Ok, so its ok to lick and suck meat but not actually eat meat

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

So, it's morally wrong because animals feel pain? Err. I'm still not seeing the moral problem here.

In any case, I'd feel that people will do what they want, and as long as it's legal, I don't have much patience for people telling me that it's wrong to do so. They'd have little patience with me picking something from their live style that I might dislike.. and I'm pretty sure I could find something easily enough. IMO It's best to leave people be... as long as it's legal.

Not aiming that at you btw... I've encountered hostile vegans before, and didn't have much patience with their outrage, and drama.

You're twisting my words again. I said "dubious", not "wrong". Again, I'm not trying to push anything. I was just wondering what people thought of the idea that people who eat meat can't care about animals given that they're actively promoting their slaughter in droves by consuming meat.

auspicious

auspicious wrote: »

Well if we can't agree on a standard of morals , well to hell with everything so.
The act of eating meat, imo, isn't morally wrong. It just all the stuff that happens to get it to the plate is morally wrong.

Common morality tend to be reflected in the law. Previously Religion would have been the secondary influence for common morality.. but we've kinda done away with that one.

Typically, people have their own individual set of morals, which have common connections with others, but will have some personal biases. For example, I have no problem hitting a woman if she hits me first (self-defense and self respect), whereas a lot of other people wouldn't ever hit a woman. Whereas we likely share other morals such as finding stealing to be morally wrong.

jaxxx

Deleted User wrote: »

So, it's morally wrong because animals feel pain? Err. I'm still not seeing the moral problem here.

In any case, I'd feel that people will do what they want, and as long as it's legal, I don't have much patience for people telling me that it's wrong to do so. They'd have little patience with me picking something from their live style that I might dislike.. and I'm pretty sure I could find something easily enough. IMO It's best to leave people be... as long as it's legal.

Not aiming that at you btw... I've encountered hostile vegans before, and didn't have much patience with their outrage, and drama.

Ever see a zebra being torn apart by a pride of lions? Pretty sure it's in pain. Oh sh*t, don't tell the vegans!! They'll be trying to make the lions vegan next!!


Disclaimer: the above is a little thing called humour, which is becoming increasingly rare in this woke society. Please direct any complains straight up your own butt, thank you.

Humour aside, my point is LIFE is not supposed to be easy. Life is itself a hardship. it's not supposed to be a gentle ride on big fluffy clouds! Enjoy the sunshine, but weather the storms!

God I hate people these days.. .. ..

SlowMotion321

Had a Vegan meal once, used the bones to make a nice broth afterwards hmmmmm tasty, tasty Vegan!

jaxxx

Deleted User wrote: »

Common morality tend to be reflected in the law. Previously Religion would have been the secondary influence for common morality.. but we've kinda done away with that one.

Typically, people have their own individual set of morals, which have common connections with others, but will have some personal biases. For example, I have no problem hitting a woman if she hits me first (self-defense and self respect), whereas a lot of other people wouldn't ever hit a woman. Whereas we likely share other morals such as finding stealing to be morally wrong.

Oh ffs. You're after reminding me of a thread not too long ago where some actual ****s were saying hitting a woman in self defence is wrong if if she's lunging at you with a knife.. .. ..

Would I ever hit a woman? Nope. Would I defend myself from an aggressive woman? Yes. Can't see the difference? Then you're a muppet. Simples!

Ipso

If humans became herbivore then some animals wouldn’t even exist, so carnivores help animals have some kind of existence.

igCorcaigh

False Prophet wrote: »

Can you be vegan/vegetarian and care for carnivore pets?

That's an interesting one, one of my vegan friends cares for gerbils, and another has a cat.

It's all an individual judgement I guess.

SlowMotion321

jaxxx wrote: »

Humour aside, my point is LIFE is not supposed to be easy. Life is itself a hardship. it's not supposed to be a gentle ride on big fluffy clouds! Enjoy the sunshine, but weather the storms!

God I hate people these days.. .. ..

Nature, red in tooth and claw!