Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Cleaning charge

Options
2»

Comments

  • Options
    #32
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    The only thing the op did wrong was not getting a receipt and doing it themselves. It's the tenant that is wrong here. Obviously it's the milder end of wrong but still wrong

    Seriously, wrong in what World. The tenant gave the place a decent clean. He probably didn't appreciate the landlord listing out what should be done so gave him two fingers in not going beyond this.. Approached in the wrong way totally by the OP

    Up to the landlord to have it ready for the next tenant and to pay for anything above and beyond reasonably clean or do it themselves.

    If it was a days work or something that would be unreasonable but looks like an hours work for the OP to get it to their standards.

    Life isn't perfect and if you want something sorted just get on with it.


  • Options
    #33
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Mimon wrote: »
    Seriously, wrong in what World. The tenant gave the place a decent clean. He probably didn't appreciate the landlord listing out what should be done so gave him two fingers in not going beyond this.. Approached in the wrong way totally by the OP

    Up to the landlord to have it ready for the next tenant and to pay for anything above and beyond reasonably clean or do it themselves.

    If it was a days work or something that would be unreasonable but looks like an hours work for the OP to get it to their standards.

    Life isn't perfect and if you want something sorted just get on with it.

    Cleanliness isn’t wear and tear. Why should the ll pay for lack of effort by the tenant? Even if it’s 1hour work, why does the ll have to suck it up when it’s the tenant duty to give it back to the ll in the same clean state. We always see very strong opinions if the sides were reversed so why can it not be equal especially for this aspect. As others have pointed out, in other more professional countries you automatically deduct a cleaning fee.

    In terms of you taking offence to the ll point out specific items to be cleaned. I would read it the opposite way. From experience tenants miss certain things when cleaning so I also tell tenants specific items to ensure they are cleaned before I go for the inspection. In the past when I didn’t point these out. Tenants were more than happy to reclean it before I deduct from the deposit So the ll is merely pointing out spots that can be missed to avoid any dispute. Communication is key here so I don’t see why you have a problem with it.


  • Options
    #34
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,505 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    Mimon wrote: »
    Seriously, wrong in what World. The tenant gave the place a decent clean. He probably didn't appreciate the landlord listing out what should be done so gave him two fingers in not going beyond this.. Approached in the wrong way totally by the OP

    Up to the landlord to have it ready for the next tenant and to pay for anything above and beyond reasonably clean or do it themselves.

    If it was a days work or something that would be unreasonable but looks like an hours work for the OP to get it to their standards.

    Life isn't perfect and if you want something sorted just get on with it.

    clearly in the wrong. we are no talking about a few crumbs in the corner of a press , OP said bags of rubbish in the presses. that means they didnt even atempt to clean them.
    it is part of the contract that the tennant entered into and they broke that contract and so should have to pay to remody it.


  • Options
    #35
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Fol20 wrote: »
    That’s a bit strong now. I wouldn’t say he is giving ll a bad name as it’s a cost that would have been born by the tenant in any case. He just going about it in the wrong way.

    The OP is wrongly attempting to keep €100 of the tenant's money - that's giving good LLs a bad name imo.

    To avoid these types of disputes, would it be possible for a property owner to pay for a cleaner at the start of a let (receipt provided to tenant to prove that it was done) and for the lease to contain a stipulation that the tenant pays for the same cleaner to clean the property at the end of the let. Then the owner provides this receipt to the next tenant, etc.


  • Options
    #36
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    clearly in the wrong. we are no talking about a few crumbs in the corner of a press , OP said bags of rubbish in the presses. that means they didnt even atempt to clean them.
    it is part of the contract that the tennant entered into and they broke that contract and so should have to pay to remody it.

    I don't think the OP does say that


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #37
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,505 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    MacDanger wrote: »
    I don't think the OP does say that

    just re read it. op doesnt say bags of rubbish but does say that there is food left in the kitchen presses. that is still unacceptable


  • Options
    #38
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,505 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    MacDanger wrote: »
    The OP is wrongly attempting to keep €100 of the tenant's money - that's giving good LLs a bad name imo.

    To avoid these types of disputes, would it be possible for a property owner to pay for a cleaner at the start of a let (receipt provided to tenant to prove that it was done) and for the lease to contain a stipulation that the tenant pays for the same cleaner to clean the property at the end of the let. Then the owner provides this receipt to the next tenant, etc.

    why is it wrong. the tennant left the mess and the OP had to clean it up. only thing they did wrong was not paying someone else to do it


  • Options
    #39
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,500 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    why is it wrong. the tennant left the mess and the OP had to clean it up. only thing they did wrong was not paying someone else to do it

    Nope, RTB will find for the tenant as the LL didn't give the tenant a chance to rectify the issues.

    Remember, it's the RTB. If the tenant set fire to the LL they would probably claim he is partially responsible for wearing clothes.


  • Options
    #40
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    why is it wrong. the tennant left the mess and the OP had to clean it up. only thing they did wrong was not paying someone else to do it

    It's already been explained here why the OP was wrong to do what they did


  • Options
    #41
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    I would hit the roof if a landlord charged me for this. Any place I moved into needed to be thoroughly cleaned so you want to be certain that you handed the place over in the same condition you're expecting at the end of the tenancy.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #42
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Another example of why landlords are pulling out of the market.
    PRTB Attitude. Tenant good, Landlord bad.


  • Options
    #43
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Nope, RTB will find for the tenant as the LL didn't give the tenant a chance to rectify the issues.

    Remember, it's the RTB. If the tenant set fire to the LL they would probably claim he is partially responsible for wearing clothes.
    No penalty on the tenant though for leaving it in a mess. Now O Broin the S.F. expert is whinging because over 20,000 properties have been sold off by accidental landlords. What do you expect O Broin? Landlords to lie down and continue to be kicked around by RTB and tenants?


  • Options
    #44
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    MacDanger wrote: »
    The OP is wrongly attempting to keep €100 of the tenant's money - that's giving good LLs a bad name imo.

    To avoid these types of disputes, would it be possible for a property owner to pay for a cleaner at the start of a let (receipt provided to tenant to prove that it was done) and for the lease to contain a stipulation that the tenant pays for the same cleaner to clean the property at the end of the let. Then the owner provides this receipt to the next tenant, etc.


    I get what you are saying however This type of dispute in the grander scheme of things is tiny given its 50e. Its more of an educational opportunity for the ll but the cost would have been a minimum of 50e either way for the tenant.

    I think both the LL and tenant want to avoid paying for a cleaner as its more hassle and cost.


  • Options
    #45
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Lux23 wrote: »
    I would hit the roof if a landlord charged me for this. Any place I moved into needed to be thoroughly cleaned so you want to be certain that you handed the place over in the same condition you're expecting at the end of the tenancy.

    I always hand my properties to tenants in a clean state and most tenants would do their own clean as well(this is their decision though)

    Having misc bags,rubbish anda fridge that isnt clean though would need to be cleaned before it would be acceptable for another tenant to move in if its a medium to high end place.


  • Options
    #46
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,763 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    Fol20 wrote: »
    I always hand my properties to tenants in a clean state and most tenants would do their own clean as well(this is their decision though)

    Having misc bags,rubbish anda fridge that isnt clean though would need to be cleaned before it would be acceptable for another tenant to move in if its a medium to high end place.

    Agree the tenant should expect the accommodation to be spotless at handover.
    maybe as another poster suggested, a cleaning charge paid for by the tenant who is leaving could be one way to do that. On the other hand maybe landlords should see cleaning/repainting etc as a cost of renting and suck it up. Don't know the answer.


  • Options
    #47
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    newmember? wrote: »
    €50 charge and do it yourself.


    If you do this they'll take you to the RTB and win.
    Pay a professional company, even if its €250.
    That way you will have a receipt for it if they take you to the rtb.


  • Options
    #48
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    I think it is trivial. Anyone in business who gets upset by something like this is going to have a hard time. people go into pubs, cafes, hotels etc and leave a mess. The proprietor just has to deal with it. It is part of the overheads.


  • Options
    #49
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    mrslancaster wrote: »
    Agree the tenant should expect the accommodation to be spotless at handover.
    maybe as another poster suggested, a cleaning charge paid for by the tenant who is leaving could be one way to do that. On the other hand maybe landlords should see cleaning/repainting etc as a cost of renting and suck it up. Don't know the answer.

    Cleaning no, repainting yes.

    Several countries do offer a cleaning charge in the lease that the tenant agrees to pay. Not really sure if that should become the norm here as it’s more costs for tenants.


  • Options
    #50
    CiboC
    Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭CiboC


    OP here, I see it's been a busy few days... to address these items before closing off this...
    MacDanger wrote: »
    OP, you're way out of line here and you're giving good landlords a bad name with your carry on

    I think your defintion of 'way out of line' needs adjusting - It's out of line to expect that the RTB rules for tenants vacating a property are followed?

    I was a tenant for many years and would have been embarrassed to leave an apartment dirty.
    Mimon wrote: »
    This, talk about nitpicking. Sounds like an hours work max, just get it done.

    It's more than an hours work to clear out a fridge & freezer, defrost it, take all the shelving and drawers out, wash and dry then and wash and dry the inside of the cabinet. at least it is if you do it to the standard I would expect and the standard I expect to deliver to a new tenant, YMMV.
    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    The only thing the op did wrong was not getting a receipt and doing it themselves. It's the tenant that is wrong here. Obviously it's the milder end of wrong but still wrong

    I never actually said I did it myself, I said if I had done it myself why would my time be valued at nothing...
    Mimon wrote: »
    Seriously, wrong in what World. The tenant gave the place a decent clean. He probably didn't appreciate the landlord listing out what should be done so gave him two fingers in not going beyond this.. Approached in the wrong way totally by the OP

    The tenant asked to deduct the final rent period (a partial month) from the deposit and asked to clarify about the return of the balance. There were some wear and tear items that I was aware of already so I confirmed there would be no deduction for them, but also clarified what was expected for full return of the rest and pointed out that appliances needed to be cleaned. As far as I am concerned this is information that the tenant asked for.
    the_pen_turner wrote: »
    clearly in the wrong. we are no talking about a few crumbs in the corner of a press , OP said bags of rubbish in the presses.

    Bags of rubbish is a bit too far and, in fairness, I didn't actually say that. There was eventually two bin bags full, most of which came from the fridge and the freezer.
    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Nope, RTB will find for the tenant as the LL didn't give the tenant a chance to rectify the issues.

    I told them the condition of the appliances was not acceptable on the day they moved out, they completely ignored that comment until a few days later and, funnily enough, only offered to come back and clean after I told them I was putting a charge against the deposit. They had a chance to rectify it.
    MacDanger wrote: »
    It's already been explained here why the OP was wrong to do what they did

    No it hasn't, just various opinions have been expressed.
    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    people go into pubs, cafes, hotels etc and leave a mess. The proprietor just has to deal with it. It is part of the overheads.

    Comparing a tenant moving out of a long term residential situation with pubs, hotels and cafes that have cleaners employed full time is not a valid comparision. In those cases the customer is paying the cost of the cleaning as it is built into the price they pay for services. In the case of a tenancy there is no seperate cleaning charge built in to the rent, that is partially what the deposit is supposed to cover, as stated by the RTB themselves.

    I've been a landlord for many years and have never had a bad experience with a tenant yet. I very carefully vet whoever goes in to the properties and treat them fairly - and expect to be treated fairly in return. Any time a new tenant goes in the property is spotlessly clean (with an empty, defrosted, spotlessly clean fridge!!).

    In this case I was asked about any possible deductions from the deposit, gave clear information about what was expected and that was ignored.

    After further conversation with the tenant it appears this is a result of a disagreement between them and their flatmate who was supposed to do this job and didn't bother. They have agreed to the deduction and they are going to hold it from their flatmates part of the deposit.


  • Options
    #51
    the_pen_turner
    Registered Users Posts: 7,505 ✭✭✭the_pen_turner


    2 bags is a lot.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #52
    MacDanger
    Registered Users Posts: 2,353 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    I think you need to get out of the LL business OP, it seems to stress you out more than it should. God help you if you actually have a bad tenant!!!


  • Options
    #53
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    MacDanger wrote: »
    I think you need to get out of the LL business OP, it seems to stress you out more than it should. God help you if you actually have a bad tenant!!!

    I agree.


  • Options
    #54
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Why does he need to leave the market?

    Yes he might be uninformed of how to handle it but this is a minor issue and i dont think he is stressing over it. He is just looking for other peoples opinions on the matter. No point going 0 to 100 over something as small as this.


  • Options
    #55
    TSQ
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭TSQ


    MacDanger wrote: »
    I think you need to get out of the LL business OP, it seems to stress you out more than it should. God help you if you actually have a bad tenant!!!

    God help any landlord who has a bad tenant, because neither the law nor the PRTB will . Having said that, it appears from the OP’s latest reply that he was absolutely correct and his outgoing tenants actually agreed and resolved the situation by taking appropriate action themselves.


  • Options
    #56
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    TSQ wrote: »
    God help any landlord who has a bad tenant, because neither the law nor the PRTB will . Having said that, it appears from the OP’s latest reply that he was absolutely correct and his outgoing tenants actually agreed and resolved the situation by taking appropriate action themselves.

    The flatmate doesn't seem to have agreed. It is from the flatmates deposit this money will be withheld. I have been to the RTB many times. The OP wouldn't have a hope this if the flatmate decides to go down the RTB route.


Advertisement