Home heating automation

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Job done and I like the Wiser app. I only have 2 radiator thermostat and I need to buy circa about 20. Any idea how/where to buy them cheap? or just wait for Amazon to reduce and buy?

The best way to buy them is when they're on special on Amazon as part of a bundle, I got mine for £85 for two thermostats, a hub and a stat. You can sell the stats and hubs that you don't use

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

A few things got me on the Wiser
The thermostat seem cheaper and I need a lot
It is backed by Schneider and that aint going bust anytime soon
No recurring license fee

I picked up the kit with 2 thermostats for the same price of the Tado kit without thermostats

Yeah I have to admit the reliance on their cloud servers bothers me big time with Tado. It’s the one thing putting me off slightly.

What’s the noise like for the Drayton trvs? I’ve seen people mention they are noisy. Not ideal having one in sons room if it’s going to wake him when opening/closing!

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Haven't noticed anything myself, the two I have one is in my children's room and they have said nothing about them so far.

The way I have setup is during the day the temp is set for 15 in the rooms and then at night it clicks in 20 degree til 10, then reduces again to maybe 15 at night and then back to 20 in morning. So it is not closing. This was the standard setup in the app and I just left to see how it works out

Do you plan on having it closing/opening the valves?

Well they would close once the temperature you set is reached and open again if it drops. At the minute our sons room gets cold (insulation being sorted soon hopefully). Some nights it'd drop to 13/14. We'd likely set it to around 16, so it could open and close during the night depending how cold the room gets.

lausp wrote: »

Exactly what I'm thinking re either the sonoff or the Allen.

I will give this a go in the next day or two and see what happens.

Worth mentioning that I put the sonoff in myself.. there was a really old SMS unit in there when I moved in that had never been commissioned, have to say it's been great fun figuring out the wiring and getting things to work.

So got this working. Very simple and exactly what I was hoping for.. the sonoff overrides the manual time clock on the boiler so I can either use it for my schedule or in addition to the manual timer as a boost function. Delighted with that 😊

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

So phase 2 of masterplan begins
In Holiday home it is one of the standard clocks with the buttons you push in/out to start/stop heating.
Got someone to take a picture of inside. Attached. I want to install the climote in here to save sending people to turn on/off when I can't. Or leaving the heating running "just in case"

Any idea how this would connect into climote

I can't see all 4 terminal legends in the first image, but the two I can see on the right are Live and Neutral in, which would go to L and N on the Climote. The next two are probably Neutral out, and switched/timed Live, with an additional red wire tapped off the blue leftmost terminal. The leftmost brown would go to CH On terminal 3 of the Climote. All the blue wires and the red can be linked in the N terminal. You will also need a Live jumper from L to 1 on the Climote.

http://www.climote.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/climote-HUB-Installation-Guide.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuxWDCRwIuc

Good video on the Drayton. Didn't answer my previous question but I do like it. I do prefer the look of the Tado overall but the Drayton is not ugly so not too big of a deal. The mesh and the non-reliance on cloud are big positives.

I had wondered about analytics but Drayton seem to have that covered. I'd actually like to get this installed before I get my insulation sorted so I can compare before and after. Can the graphs etc be accessed on PC?

At current prices the cost of my setup would be.... (I had thought Tado was cheaper but I calculated wrong, had this all typed out already )

Drayton :
Drayton Bundle with 1 Thermostat + 4 TRVs|£259.99
Extra Thermostat|£63.00
13 TRVs @ £40 each. Giving 17 in total|£520.00
Total|£842.99


Tado :
Tado V3+ HotWater Bundle, 1Thermostat, No TRVs|£190.81
Extra Thermostat|£64.95
4 Quattro Packs (4 TRVs) @ £193.74 giving 16 TRVs|£581.22
Single TRV|£62.00
Total|£1,092.72



Pros for the Tado

• Slicklooking system, TRVs, Thermostat
• Nice app.
• HomeKit integration

Cons for the Tado

• Reliant on their cloud servers.
• More expensive.

Pros for the Drayton

• Works without internet, servers disappear its still fully functional.
• App looks decent.
• Zigbee Mesh
• Cheaper

Cons for Drayton

• Reports of noisy TRVs?
• Looks?

Questions outstanding :
Can the thermostat act as the control for two TRVs in that room so that the TRVs temperature is ignored, same as Tado does. Example when the radiator is behind a couch, you dont want that being the temp being sensed.


I am leaning more towards the Drayton now. I've mentioned looks above but lets face it, its an oil programmer and TRVs. The ones I have on aren't exactly pretty and I don't even notice them!

chris_ie wrote: »

Questions outstanding :
Can the thermostat act as the control for two TRVs in that room so that the TRVs temperature is ignored, same as Tado does. Example when the radiator is behind a couch, you dont want that being the temp being sensed.

As I understand it, yes a room stat will override the TRVs. That's my plan for the living room. Currently has 2 TRVs but once I get the hallway I'll be moving the room stat into the living room as the TRVs are behind the sofa.

deezell wrote: »

Just to draw your attention to the fact that you are listing a kit with a single CH Zone HubR receiver. This is not an issue per se with a full TRV installation, as you can use the HubR to open both zone valves, if your original system has 2 CH zone valves, with some minor wiring change to ensure the HubR is wired to trigger both zone valves.
Indeed, you can just clamp the valves open, the valve actuators will continue to operate as relays to call the boiler.
There is a two stat kit3 bundle which has the 3 zone HubR, that and 4 TRVs is about the same cost as your first 2 items (£2 less atm), and using this HubR would maintain the zone flow independence, wherby say the bedroom/1st floor zone valve would not be powered on when none of its TRVs were active.

I saw two bundles, a 1channel and a 2 channel with hot water. Both showed same price. (Amazon). Is there a different bundle?

chris_ie wrote: »

I saw two bundles, a 1channel and a 2 channel with hot water. Both showed same price. (Amazon). Is there a different bundle?

The kit 3, 2 CH stats and HW, aka 'starter kit dual zone', £158 plus 4 TRVs £160, total £318, a fiver less actually.

championc wrote: »

I really do not think that these TRV's are affected in any way by locations such as that. My hall one has a radiator cover over it and it appears to perfectly detect the temperature.

Tested the theory tonight. Stove is lit so the room is toasty. Digital stat on the table says 24. App says that the rads are at 22.

Brought a room stat up from the bedroom and it quickly adjusted to 24. Moved the digital stat around and set it on top of the radiator stat and it dropped to 22.

So they're reading accurately, but the area behind the sofa stays a few degrees cooler than the main part of the room.

chris_ie wrote: »

Will be getting work done soon with the plumbing. Need to decide now whether to add the extra valve for the Hot Water... How would that work exactly, if I bought a basic thermostat for the HW valve. If the boiler is timed for hot water, say for an hour. If it reaches the temperature after 30minutes and closes the valve, if no other CH valves are open due to not calling for heat, wont that lead to problems with the boiler firing for another 30 minutes? Or is the case that the water temperature going back to the boiler would cause it to stop firing?

You use the cylinder stat to interrupt the SL to the HW valve. The HW valve relay calls the boiler. HW reaches target, cylinder stat opens, valve shuts and call to the boiler ends.

Work being done next week. Getting the hot water valve put on aswell. Plumber was initially concerned that the HW could cause problems when it was closed, the CH valves closed and the stove being on, but then remembered we have multiple coils. So the HW valve will be on the oil heating coil, meaning the stove will always heat the HW and dissipate heat there. That the right idea deezell?

In cases where both CH valves are closed and the stove is on I was wondering about the HW getting too hot and pipes banging requiring manually opening the CH valves just to dissipate the heat, I think you mentioned a solution a while back of how it could be wired. I need to dig back a bit.

I always think I have this sussed in my head but questions always come up! If it was a single source of heat it wouldn't be so bad!

chris_ie wrote: »

Work being done next week. Getting the hot water valve put on aswell. Plumber was initially concerned that the HW could cause problems when it was closed, the CH valves closed and the stove being on, but then remembered we have multiple coils. So the HW valve will be on the oil heating coil, meaning the stove will always heat the HW and dissipate heat there. That the right idea deezell?

In cases where both CH valves are closed and the stove is on I was wondering about the HW getting too hot and pipes banging requiring manually opening the CH valves just to dissipate the heat, I think you mentioned a solution a while back of how it could be wired. I need to dig back a bit.

I always think I have this sussed in my head but questions always come up! If it was a single source of heat it wouldn't be so bad!

You should have at least one radiator open, and preferably before the zone valves. When the stove output exceeds the capacity of the HW cylinder to sink heat by gravity, the stove stat will close and turn on the stove pump. This will circulate the stove heat to any open rads in open zones.
If all the rads have closed trvs, and all the zone valves are closed, this would prevent any rad dissipating the heat from the stove. Its moot to ask why a stove would be burning when there was no requirement for CH and the TRVs are all closed. What's required in this case is an open rad before the zone valves, or a relay triggered from the stove stat to open at least one zone. A lex or wiring box can be used to simplify mixed heat source systems, with a two pole relay used to turn on a zone valve or pump, and to mute the oil boiler call while the stove is producing excess heat. In such a system you would require a few open rads, or at the least to be running a schedule for the TRVs that would has some on call during the time the stove is burning.
Again, TRVs do not suit a mixed source system as the possibility exists of all rads closed due to low temperature schedule, while someone lights a stove and cranks it up. Just using the stove stat to relay open a zone valve is not enough, if there are no open rads on this zone.