Guns N' Roses

Gerard.C · 07-10-2006 3:16pm #1

What do ye all think??

Milking Chinese Democracy to the balls?
Living on something that's long gone?
Still very good?
Nothing without Slash?

Well? What's the verdict?

Nevyn · 07-10-2006 4:27pm

The current band preforming under that title is not really guns and roses.
G'N'F'R ended when Izzy left during the Illusions tour.

What is currently being touted is Axl and His ego and not even as good as a tribute band.

Giblet · 07-10-2006 7:06pm

Thaedydal wrote:

The current band preforming under that title is not really guns and roses.
G'N'F'R ended when Izzy left during the Illusions tour.

What is currently being touted is Axl and His ego and not even as good as a tribute band.

No it ended when Steven "The Legend" Adler was fired. ****ing Matt Sorum...

projectmayhem · 07-10-2006 7:10pm

never been a huge fan. i'd be the "greatest hits" guy at a gig, not knowing what the "other" songs are... but the people i know who saw them over the summer said it was fantastic, and they sounded great.

as for chinese democracy... the album would want to be the greatest rock album of all time for the amount of money it cost, and the amount of time put into it

Nevyn · 07-10-2006 7:13pm

Giblet wrote:

No it ended when Steven "The Legend" Adler was fired. ****ing Matt Sorum...

pff how can you compare the creative talents of Izzy to those of Adler.

Black NG-60-90 · 09-10-2006 9:59am

Giblet wrote:

No it ended when Steven "The Legend" Adler was fired. ****ing Matt Sorum...

In all fairness Matt Sorum was still a good drummer. It all went downhill after Adler left but for me GNR ended when Slash and Duff left. Now i see it as Axl's solo project.

Motley Crue · 10-10-2006 10:50am

as a completely different entity to the former GNR this band has some potential, but only as an Axl Rose band type act. its only because axl has more money and better lawyers that hes using the name. adler was never a favourite of mine, but izzy did comment that he was influential to the bands sound and his departure was the first step towards 'the end'

on another slight off point, izzy played here with his solo band in 1992, shortly after GNR played Slane. was anyone present? anyone know if he mentioned GNR or he was the backtalking type? if i remember correctly axl used to dedicate 'Double Talkin Jive' to Izzy?

JC 2K3 · 10-10-2006 7:42pm

Izzy plays with GNR on 3/4 songs at most live shows.

Chinese Democracy has been practically confirmed to be released before Christmas(Management have said in an email to GNR fans last week that "There are only 11 Tuesdays left until Christmas"(Albums come out on Tuesdays in the US, and there's 10 left now)). Rolling Stone is saying November 21st, but it's not definate. It's most likely to be the 14th, 21st or 28th of November though.

As for the quality of the new band, I think they are pretty good. Anyone who has heard the demo of There Was a Time or The Blues live will know that there's definately something to be excited about, even if some of the new songs which have been leaked(like IRS) aren't great.

Qualitywise I expect Chinese Democracy to be as good as the Illusions.

They cover the old stuff rather excellently as well, although their shows are a bit predictable and always seem to stop for an annoying guitar solo just when they're gaining momentum.

IMO this is one of the greatest live versions of Nightrain ever. As good as the Illusions tour? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzfABIMXpac

dimerocks · 10-10-2006 7:52pm

Motley Crue wrote:

its only because axl has more money and better lawyers that hes using the name.

they signed the name over to him during the use you illusion tour thats why he is using it. Nothing to do with better lawyers and more money.

Larry David · 11-10-2006 1:08am

Giblet wrote:

No it ended when Steven "The Legend" Adler was fired. ****ing Matt Sorum...

Spot on. The real GNR (i.e. the legends that recorded Appetite) died when Adler was fired.

r3nu4l · 11-10-2006 12:11pm

To be honest, I though Appetite was their best album, after that they did nothing for me. Civil war was about their best tune after that. GNR died after Appetite for me

Lucifer31 · 11-10-2006 7:15pm

Slash and Axl were pure legend together. Not the same not being able to see them play together anymore. Would be great to see original Appetite line up play again. Won't happen though. Waiting so long for a new album is ridiculous, when so many other great bands continue to release new albums without any crap, and just get on with it. I had the pleasure to see GnR in Slane in '92 (best day of my life). Also saw them at Donington this year. Their set was a bit of a mess, though some potentially great new songs were heard. Axl's voice is great at the moment, unlike in '93,'94, when all he could do was croak!
If they had taken the best tunes from Use Your Illusion 1 & 2 back in the day and just released one album, it would have been one great set of songs.

Nightrain · 12-10-2006 12:52am

Well as Izzy said, guns went from a rock band to a metal band when matt joined. Even Slash and duff have since admitted that firing ole popcorn was a mistake.

Nightrain · 12-10-2006 12:53am

r3nu4l wrote:

To be honest, I though Appetite was their best album, after that they did nothing for me. Civil war was about their best tune after that. GNR died after Appetite for me

No thought needed,it was their best album.
But the illusion albums were good i have to say,although my world should have been left off it,but sure no point complaining about it now.just my view.

Motley Crue · 12-10-2006 12:52pm

Lucifer31 wrote:

Their set was a bit of a mess, though some potentially great new songs were heard. Axl's voice is great at the moment, unlike in '93,'94, when all he could do was croak!

I have to agree on this one, as I saw them in Wembley and then before that in Dublin this year. I think the reason Axl's voice croaked in 93 was because he had been on the road far too long

Gary ITR · 12-10-2006 1:02pm

I think GnR is jyust another one of those bands that peaked way too early and just got too big for their boots. Axl is just flogging a dead horse now, how many times was this album supposed to be released, I'm hearing about it for around 3 or 4 years now. It's going to need to be a stormer to live up to the hype around it

A Primal Nut · 12-10-2006 1:14pm

Motley Crue wrote:

as a completely different entity to the former GNR this band has some potential, but only as an Axl Rose band type act. its only because axl has more money and better lawyers that hes using the name. adler was never a favourite of mine, but izzy did comment that he was influential to the bands sound and his departure was the first step towards 'the end'

on another slight off point, izzy played here with his solo band in 1992, shortly after GNR played Slane. was anyone present? anyone know if he mentioned GNR or he was the backtalking type? if i remember correctly axl used to dedicate 'Double Talkin Jive' to Izzy?

In fairness, Izzy is the only one who never really backtalked about other members, and certainly never talked about them at his gigs. He's kinda stayed out of all the rows and is the only one who seems friendly with all the old members of the band, having played with Velvet Revolver, NewGnR, and (I think) Adler's Appetite.

Axl dedicated DTJ to Izzy once, saying "Izzy musta wrote this song about himself." Can't remember what gig, though.

A Primal Nut · 12-10-2006 1:17pm

Nightrain wrote:

No thought needed,it was their best album.
But the illusion albums were good i have to say,although my world should have been left off it,but sure no point complaining about it now.just my view.

I seem to be the only one on this planet who prefers the Use Your Illusion albums. They are my two favourite albums of all time. Appetite's great, but all the songs are sorta similiar. The sheer variety on UYI is amazing. Coma and Estranged are two of the best songs ever, IMO.

Giblet · 12-10-2006 5:42pm

JC 2K3 wrote:

IMO this is one of the greatest live versions of Nightrain ever. As good as the Illusions tour? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzfABIMXpac

His voice is top notch, not a hard song to play though, I could do a better job myself

Mental Mickey · 12-10-2006 7:57pm

I HOPE the f**kin thing will be out before the end of the year!!!??? Axl has turned GnR into a bigger soap opera than they were 10-15 years ago!!!?? That said, IRS & Better are two VERY good songs!!! Hope the rest of the album lives up to all the hype/expectations???

Nightrain · 12-10-2006 9:13pm

Giblet wrote:

His voice is top notch, not a hard song to play though, I could do a better job myself

for some songs it is alright.but certain songs this time round.YCBM he cant sing very well at all from the clips i have seem. But that was hard enough in the day,but now he runs out of breath more than before. And the part of YCBM were it gets fast, he just doesnt seem to be able to handle it.

JC 2K3 · 12-10-2006 9:36pm

For songs like Nightrain, Rocket Queen, My Michelle, Out Ta Get Me etc. he does a fantastic job these days.

However, he hasn't been able to sing SCOM live properly since the 80s, YCBM live was never 100% voicewise, but I think I prefer '92. Paradise City isn't great these days and November Rain is lacking somewhat.

The Blues is great new song he sings great live, TWAT is a great new song he sang pretty badly in Madrid and hasn't played it since.

I'm happy with the New GNR for what they are and Chinese Democracy should be a good album.

Mental Mickey · 12-10-2006 9:58pm

As I said before, I hope to f**k it's a good album!!!??

Think of this though: Axl ain't gonna release an album if hei's not 100% happy with it first!!!???

BTW, I think I've found the whole album on eMule??? I'll let ye know what it's like when I've downloaded & listened to it;-)!

Roll on November 21st(if this IS the official release date)!?

Nightrain · 12-10-2006 10:41pm

JC 2K3 wrote:

For songs like Nightrain, Rocket Queen, My Michelle, Out Ta Get Me etc. he does a fantastic job these days.

However, he hasn't been able to sing SCOM live properly since the 80s, YCBM live was never 100% voicewise, but I think I prefer '92. Paradise City isn't great these days and November Rain is lacking somewhat.

The Blues is great new song he sings great live, TWAT is a great new song he sang pretty badly in Madrid and hasn't played it since.

I'm happy with the New GNR for what they are and Chinese Democracy should be a good album.

Well SCOM seems to be fine now from the audio i have heard,considering the power he has lost over the years of not singing. NR is good to be fair,the fact he's sitting at the piano for the song helps as he doesnt lose his breath. What exactly is it lacking ?

JC 2K3 · 13-10-2006 5:23pm

I don't like his singing on SCOM at all these days, and NR is very good, probably shouldn't have mentioned it as an example, but it just lacks something it had back in '92.

Mental Mickey wrote:

BTW, I think I've found the whole album on eMule??? I'll let ye know what it's like when I've downloaded & listened to it;-)!

lol

Shiminay · 14-10-2006 4:58am

The Chinese Democracy is the Duke Nukem 4 of the rock music world...

They're not a very good band, never really liked them, can appreciate some of the music, but having a knob like Axl in any band is just going to ruin it.

It's not fair to call the current line-up G'n'R anyway, it's just cash-in for Alx.

seanironmaiden · 14-10-2006 4:37pm

Does anyone know that G N' R played a gig in Keady, Co. Armagh when they were at the height of their fame?

well they did..

Keady is a tiny little town and Guns' tour manager was getting married to a girl from there. G N' R flew over for the reception and had big articulated trucks block off all entry to the town centre where they played the square.

JC 2K3 · 14-10-2006 8:08pm

Kharn wrote:

The Chinese Democracy is the Duke Nukem 4 of the rock music world...

They're not a very good band, never really liked them, can appreciate some of the music, but having a knob like Axl in any band is just going to ruin it.

It's not fair to call the current line-up G'n'R anyway, it's just cash-in for Alx.

Music is about music, not band members' personalies. Slash was as much of an asshole as Axl.

And while it isn't really fair to use the GNR name it's not a caash in for Axl. I bet you haven't even heard the leaks.

Motley Crue · 15-10-2006 10:56am

seanironmaiden wrote:

Does anyone know that G N' R played a gig in Keady, Co. Armagh when they were at the height of their fame?

well they did..

Keady is a tiny little town and Guns' tour manager was getting married to a girl from there. G N' R flew over for the reception and had big articulated trucks block off all entry to the town centre where they played the square.

Youve got to be kidding, can anyone else back this up?

I mean, this is Alan Niven we're talking about?

Why has nobody ever posted this anywhere!

Quatre Mains · 15-10-2006 1:07pm

I'm on the fence on this lot TBH. Some of the 2002 era bootlegs of songs such as 'The Blues' and another class track 'Rhiad and The Bedouins' sound fantastic. However, I can't say the same for 'T.W.A.T', which is real rocker playing with Cubasis stuff IMHO. I think Axl is a good songwriter but my biggest fear for the new album is that songs like The Blues and Madagascar will get the OTT Meat Loaf treatment a la November Rain (lets face it only the end bit is good LOL). I definitely don't regard GNR as rocks great white hope the way I did 3 years ago, but am hopeful the album will be good

Shellie13 · 15-10-2006 3:50pm

what the hell i thought they WERE a tribute band?!

Nightrain · 15-10-2006 5:27pm

seanironmaiden wrote:

Does anyone know that G N' R played a gig in Keady, Co. Armagh when they were at the height of their fame?

well they did..

Keady is a tiny little town and Guns' tour manager was getting married to a girl from there. G N' R flew over for the reception and had big articulated trucks block off all entry to the town centre where they played the square.

That has to be crap. Why would guns play in armagh ? Wheres the proof ?

JC 2K3 · 15-10-2006 8:29pm

Johnnycabs wrote:

I'm on the fence on this lot TBH. Some of the 2002 era bootlegs of songs such as 'The Blues' and another class track 'Rhiad and The Bedouins' sound fantastic.

The Blues is probably the best new song, although I'm pissed off that Axl chose to cut out the lead guitar part at the start this year. And, hurray! Finally someone else who likes Rhiad!

Johnnycabs wrote:

However, I can't say the same for 'T.W.A.T', which is real rocker playing with Cubasis stuff IMHO.

You're talking about the leak right? I don't understand what you're saying... re: TWAT all I can personally say is, "WHY OH WHY DID BUCKETHEAD HAVE TO LEAVE!!!". What a solo....

Johnnycabs wrote:

I think Axl is a good songwriter but my biggest fear for the new album is that songs like The Blues and Madagascar will get the OTT Meat Loaf treatment a la November Rain (lets face it only the end bit is good LOL). I definitely don't regard GNR as rocks great white hope the way I did 3 years ago, but am hopeful the album will be good

Dependin on my mood I like the first November Rain solo better, but the demos are far better in terms of the rest of the song, so I can agree with you. Madagascar is a kickass live song, but can't see it being as effective on record. I hope they don't ruin The Blues.....

Motley Crue · 16-10-2006 8:26am

Johnnycabs wrote:

I think Axl is a good songwriter but my biggest fear for the new album is that songs like The Blues and Madagascar will get the OTT Meat Loaf treatment a la November Rain (lets face it only the end bit is good LOL)

The new Meatloaf album will see to it that no one else steals the big mans spotlight, trust me!

Mental Mickey · 16-10-2006 3:36pm

Isn't Meatloaf releasing Bat Out Of Hell Part THREE????? Now THAT'S SAD!!

B.T.W, these are the songs I've heard off GnR's new album:

I.R.S
Better
T.W.A.T(There Was A Time)
Oh My God
Chinese Democracy
Rhiad & The Bedhouins
Silkworms
Oklahoma

All good songs except for Rhiad......horrible song.

Motley Crue · 16-10-2006 5:30pm

Mental Mickey wrote:

Isn't Meatloaf releasing Bat Out Of Hell Part THREE????? Now THAT'S SAD!!

B.T.W, these are the songs I've heard off GnR's new album:

I.R.S
Better
T.W.A.T(There Was A Time)
Oh My God
Chinese Democracy
Rhiad & The Bedhouins
Silkworms
Oklahoma

All good songs except for Rhiad......horrible song.

I got a promo copy for his label the other day, quite a brilliant album actually, not GNR btw i mean Meatloaf

JC 2K3 · 16-10-2006 9:07pm

Mental Mickey wrote:

Isn't Meatloaf releasing Bat Out Of Hell Part THREE????? Now THAT'S SAD!!

B.T.W, these are the songs I've heard off GnR's new album:

I.R.S
Better
T.W.A.T(There Was A Time)
Oh My God
Chinese Democracy
Rhiad & The Bedhouins
Silkworms
Oklahoma

All good songs except for Rhiad......horrible song.

You thought Silkworms was good???? :?

If you thought you heard "Oklahoma" it was a fake.

Oh My God and Slikworms won't be on CD.

Rhiad rocks! It's different... And what a name for a song.....

Listen to The Blues, Madagascar and Catcher in the Rye(Featuring Brian May, but unfortunately not on CD)

Mental Mickey · 17-10-2006 12:08pm

The version of "Rhiad" that I've heard sounds like it was recorded in a bloody toilet!!??

And wasn't "Oh My God" on the soundtrack to "End Of Days"(the Arnie Schwarzenneger film)????

BTW, do you think the release date of 20th November is gonna happen?

JC 2K3 · 17-10-2006 6:41pm

Mental Mickey wrote:

The version of "Rhiad" that I've heard sounds like it was recorded in a bloody toilet!!??

It's an amateur live recording froom 2002 when Axl had a **** voice. The song itself is good.

And I'm guessing 14th, 21st or 28th November.

J.R.HARTLEY · 17-10-2006 6:57pm

dimerocks wrote:

they signed the name over to him during the use you illusion tour thats why he is using it. Nothing to do with better lawyers and more money.

thats not really true either he demanded that they sign the name over to him just before the first concert or he wouldn't perform,he held the band to ransom for the name. it was **** like this that caused izzy to leave the nband, as for what he did to gilby clarke, bringing him on tour only to fire him when they finished was rotten. Axl f'ed the band up after Appetite by bringing string sections and pianos into it (i'm looking at you November Rain, Estranged)
i ask you who in the band apart from Axl was their at the recording of Appetite?
answer:0

JC 2K3 · 17-10-2006 7:03pm

Estranged is one of their best songs......

And Izzy just didn't want to tour.

J.R.HARTLEY · 17-10-2006 9:50pm

izzy just didn't want to tour? where do you get that, why don't you try watching any of the many documentaries made on the band and hear from Slash , from Duff from Matt Sorum how Axls asshole antics (beat that for Alliteration) drove him out of the band.

JC 2K3 · 17-10-2006 10:21pm

J.R.HARTLEY wrote:

izzy just didn't want to tour? where do you get that, why don't you try watching any of the many documentaries made on the band and hear from Slash , from Duff from Matt Sorum how Axls asshole antics (beat that for Alliteration) drove him out of the band.

I've seen documentaries on the subject and the problem is what I've highlighted in your post, they're biased. Sure Scott Weiland is even often in these documentaries which just ridicule Axl and tell it from their perspective. Have you heard the Axl interview on Eddie Trunk's radio show a few months back? Acccording to Axl the demise of the bad was due to a three way fight between Axl, Izzy and Slash over what songs should be on the Illusions, the compromise being 2 albums with everyone's songs included. Izzy left the band due to differences between him and Axl and Slash, as well as the fact that he simply didn't want to be on the road touring. Gilby's dismissal was fair enough, he was just filling in(Same as Ron Thal these days I guess). The whole Paul Tobias affair was a total mess though and Axl probably isn't without blame there.

All I'm saying is the whole "Axl is an asshole" thing is baseless and he wasn't the only reason for the band's demise.

And anyway, as Slash has shown us in his other projects besides GNR, he is nothing without Axl. Having heard the leaks it is clear Buckethead is an adequate replacement(and Ron Thal isn't bad as a live replacement either).

Mental Mickey · 18-10-2006 12:35pm

http://www.mygnr.com/album/ChineseDemocracy.html

If you check out the above link, I think you'll find that "Catcher In The Rye" WILL be on the new album!? Also, I guess the album will be released in Europe/ROTW on 20th November......just a guess....?

Quatre Mains · 18-10-2006 1:04pm

JC 2K3 wrote:

Having heard the leaks it is clear Buckethead is an adequate replacement(and Ron Thal isn't bad as a live replacement either).

...I have to say I'm very impressed with Buckethead as a guitarist, some very cool videos of him on Youtube etc. He has that '60's supercomputer' thing down to a tee, a really cool trademark. Thal however is just messy to my ears- I thought his solo was muck at the RDS. He's probaly technically out of this world but none of that matters if you still sound crap (He also needs a serious makeover, he looked like something from Pyromania era Def Leppard)!
IMHO 3 guitarists live is overkill anyway(getting off-topic here, sorry).

I'm very surprised at the negative comments around 'Rhiad'...unless you have a different version to me (I think mine is from Vegas late 2002, the solo in that has the supercomputer thing I refer to above). Horses for courses I guess.

JC 2K3 · 18-10-2006 8:20pm

Mental Mickey wrote:

http://www.mygnr.com/album/ChineseDemocracy.html

If you check out the above link, I think you'll find that "Catcher In The Rye" WILL be on the new album!? Also, I guess the album will be released in Europe/ROTW on 20th November......just a guess....?

Actually, Catcher in the Rye will probably be on it(possibly without Brian May's guitar work, however), I was wrong, but that site says "Possible Tracklist". Oh My God and Silkworms won't be on CD.

Johnnycabs wrote:

...I have to say I'm very impressed with Buckethead as a guitarist, some very cool videos of him on Youtube etc. He has that '60's supercomputer' thing down to a tee, a really cool trademark. Thal however is just messy to my ears- I thought his solo was muck at the RDS. He's probaly technically out of this world but none of that matters if you still sound crap (He also needs a serious makeover, he looked like something from Pyromania era Def Leppard)!

Yeah his solo was muck. Thal's really hit and miss tbh, sometimes his solos just don't fit.

Buckethead's on the album though, that's all that matters.

Mental Mickey · 19-10-2006 9:57am

According to www.rollingstone.com, Sebastian Bach(once of Skid Row), has heard some of the other tracks on "Chinese Democracy". He says that there's a song titled "Sorry" that's almost DOOM METAL in sound!!!!????

Also, GnR's manager has said on www.newgnr.com that they may not even announce a release date for the album, but that people may walk into their local record store some Tuesday and find it there......?

Mental Mickey · 19-10-2006 4:52pm

I've just been onto both Virgin Megastore AND HMV and they have no definite release date for the album........???

The guy in Virgin Megastore told me that they usually get notice of an album's release at least a month in advance, but they've heard nothin' yet.....??

19-10-2006 8:05pm

Mental Mickey wrote:

Also, GnR's manager has said on www.newgnr.com that they may not even announce a release date for the album, but that people may walk into their local record store some Tuesday and find it there......?

I reckon thats exactly what they'll do!!!! ...as this is the most "anticipated" album release in many years....they'll prob will release the album totally out of the blue without any promotion before hand, causing a total frenzy of media hype!!! ... then they'll use the tour and a couple of weeks of intense promotion leading up to xmas to make the album sell.....I wonder if they'll even release a single before the album!?

JC 2K3 · 19-10-2006 9:23pm

Mental Mickey wrote:

I've just been onto both Virgin Megastore AND HMV and they have no definite release date for the album........???

The guy in Virgin Megastore told me that they usually get notice of an album's release at least a month in advance, but they've heard nothin' yet.....??

Hello, SlashNBurn

I hope they don't promote it, that'd rock. It'd be such a "I don't care how successful this is, I'm doing it for the music and the fans" type move from Axl(in stark contrast to that sellout, Slash).

Mental Mickey · 19-10-2006 9:58pm

So what??? Ye figured out who I am??? Who the f**k are you, Sherlock bleedin Holmes???

Guns N' Roses

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