Has anyone had ankle surgery before?

Fuddyduddy · 07-08-2020 11:35am #1

Had a grade iii sprain about 11 weeks ago, syndesmosis injury. Saw a consultant after I went in for an MRI and he recommended surgery immediately, didn't really do any kind of physical examination other than say it appeared that the anterior and posterior ligaments were torn "peeling off the bone" based on the MRI. No functional test.

Decided to see how it healed by itself and he recommended coming back in at the 12 week mark. It has healed a lot and can lightly jog on grass but still not 100%, can't road run at all.

Surgery involves drilling through the tibia and fibula and inserting a metal thread whereby they are sutured on both sides to hold the two lower leg bones together.

Has anyone had ankle surgery for syndesmosis before? What was your mobility and stability like afterwards? Which surgeon did it?

My ankle is still clicking when I dorsi/plantar flex. I'd like to get a second opinion on what exactly is wrong. Can anyone recommend a good chartered physio that does xray/scans?

Thanks!

Mellor · 07-08-2020 4:21pm

Grade iii is full rupture of the ligament. Unlikely to heal on its own I’d imagine.

calfmuscle · 13-08-2020 10:14pm

Very interesting question as loads of research coming out regarding mri results and function. Also the long term outcomes after various orthopedic surgeries. Im a physio but won't advise you one way or the other. All I would say is your plan sounds good, no harm in a second opinion. And if completely ruptured youre unlikely to do more damage by taking your time to make an informed decision. Best of luck and id love to know how you get on.

Dempo1 · 13-08-2020 10:23pm

As it happens I've had recent surgery on a broken ankle with torn ligaments thrown in, fell off a ladder bang in the middle of lock down.

Recovery time has been more than 12 weeks and still not 100% movement, physio wasn't an option because service restrictions due to Covid-19.

Mine was an emergency op, went well and only spent a night in private hospital . Had the use of a support boot and it was a godsend albeit you can become too dependent on it.

As an aside and not related, my recovery was extended because of an infection in wound (pins not removed correctly at 2 week after op check up in local hospital), but that aside I'm going to say 12 weeks minimum

karlitob · 13-08-2020 10:41pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

As it happens I've had recent surgery on a broken ankle with torn ligaments thrown in, fell off a ladder bang in the middle of lock down.

Recovery time has been more than 12 weeks and still not 100% movement, physio wasn't an option because service restrictions due to Covid-19.

Mine was an emergency op, went well and only spent a night in private hospital . Had the use of a support boot and it was a godsend albeit you can become too dependent on it.

As an aside and not related, my recovery was extended because of an infection in wound (pins not removed correctly at 2 week after op check up in local hospital), but that aside I'm going to say 12 weeks minimum

Physio is an option in current service restrictions - virtual assessment and treatments available for very common injury.

Did you go to a public hospital and get sent to a private hospital? Or did you present directly to the private hospital?

calfmuscle · 13-08-2020 10:46pm

karlitob wrote: »

Physio is an option in current service restrictions - virtual assessment and treatments available for very common injury.

Did you go to a public hospital and get sent to a private hospital? Or did you present directly to the private hospital?

Private practice face to face appointments restarted on the 18th of May. No need for zoom physio unless its your preference.

Dempo1 · 13-08-2020 10:48pm

karlitob wrote: »

Physio is an option in current service restrictions - virtual assessment and treatments available for very common injury.

Did you go to a public hospital and get sent to a private hospital? Or did you present directly to the private hospital?

Ambulance brought me to a Midlands public hospital, x-rayed, bandaged up and I had to make it to dublin 2 days later for operation. Yes, I've availed of virtual assessment and physio treatment, not great to be honest.

Dempo1 · 13-08-2020 10:49pm

calfmuscle wrote: »

Private practice face to face appointments restarted on the 18th of May. No need for zoom physio unless its your preference.

Not at the HSE setting, but had phone consultation and whilst not ideal, it's fine

calfmuscle · 13-08-2020 10:56pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Not at the HSE setting, but had phone consultation and whilst not ideal, it's fine

Yup not in the hse..........private practice tho.

karlitob · 13-08-2020 11:03pm

calfmuscle wrote: »

Private practice face to face appointments restarted on the 18th of May. No need for zoom physio unless its your preference.

As an chartered MSK physio I would naturally recommend a physio assessment post-ankle surgery. While not ideal virtual is better than nothing.
The poster said physio wasn’t an option due to service restrictions. It was, though not face to face as you’ve noted.

karlitob · 13-08-2020 11:05pm

calfmuscle wrote: »

Yup not in the hse..........private practice tho.

This is confusing. Do you know the Poster went to the physio in the private hospital that he was sent to nor are you inferring that no public physio department in the country provided virtual consultations?

calfmuscle · 13-08-2020 11:13pm

karlitob wrote: »

This is confusing. Do you know the Poster went to the physio in the private hospital that he was sent to nor are you inferring that no public physio department in the country provided virtual consultations?

Not sure what you're confused about?
I'm saying private physiotherapy clinics recommenced face to face appointments on the 18th of May.....
I know this as I am also a Chartered Physiotherapist working in MSK.....

Hopefully the op can get a few opinions and make a treatment plan

Dempo1 · 13-08-2020 11:16pm

karlitob wrote: »

This is confusing. Do you know the Poster went to the physio in the private hospital that he was sent to nor are you inferring that no public physio department in the country provided virtual consultations?

Sorry, let me explain, physio doesn't happen immediately after an op, My op had to be done in a private hospital because of restrictions. I went for check up at local general hospital 2 weeks after op at private hospital, xrays checked etc, another check up two weeks later and physio discussed at hospital (tullamore), as my home is in Laois, I was referred to HSE Laois physio in Mountmellick but with restrictions, only phone consultation took place, as useful as a bicycle in a canoe. All HSE clinics, essentially shut, as it happens I've a separate Thyroid condition and all clinics now telephone, beyond absurd but it is what it is was it is, there are many worse off than I.

karlitob · 13-08-2020 11:21pm

calfmuscle wrote: »

Not sure what you're confused about?
I'm saying private physiotherapy clinics recommenced face to face appointments on the 18th of May.....
I know this as I am also a Chartered Physiotherapist working in MSK.....

Hopefully the op can get a few opinions and make a treatment plan

I am confused why you mentioned the HSE ‘yup not in the HSE’. If your point was when private clinics recommenced why the need to reference the HSE.

Dempo1 · 13-08-2020 11:23pm

karlitob wrote: »

I am confused why you mentioned the HSE ‘yup not in the HSE’. If your point was when private clinics recommenced why the need to reference the HSE.

It was me who mentioned HSE in relation to my experience, what is the issue??

karlitob · 13-08-2020 11:24pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Sorry, let me explain, physio doesn't happen immediately after an op, My op had to be done in a private hospital because of restrictions. I went for check up at local general hospital 2 weeks after op at private hospital, xrays checked etc, another check up two weeks later and physio discussed at hospital (tullamore), as my home is in Laois, I was referred to HSE Laois physio in Mountmellick but with restrictions, only phone consultation took place, as useful as a bicycle in a canoe. All HSE clinics, essentially shut, as it happens I've a separate Thyroid condition and all clinics now telephone, beyond absurd but it is what it is was it is, there are many worse off than I.

I know how it works pal. Been doing it long enough. That post was clearly not for you.

You were incorrect that ‘physio wasn’t an option due to Covid restrictions’. That’s not correct. I’m sorry you didn’t find virtual clinics useful - they are not ideal.

calfmuscle · 13-08-2020 11:32pm

karlitob wrote: »

I know how it works pal. Been doing it long enough. That post was clearly not for you.

You were incorrect that ‘physio wasn’t an option due to Covid restrictions’. That’s not correct. I’m sorry you didn’t find virtual clinics useful - they are not ideal.

No need for that tone

Dempo1 · 13-08-2020 11:33pm

karlitob wrote: »

I know how it works pal. Been doing it long enough. That post was clearly not for you.

You were incorrect that ‘physio wasn’t an option due to Covid restrictions’. That’s not correct. I’m sorry you didn’t find virtual clinics useful - they are not ideal.

Very tetchy, I was correct, face to face physio was NOT an option for me as a public patient (god forbid I don't meet your high standards), quite an astonishing reaction from you "Pal", what's that about? You object to another poster confirming I was correct re HSE, we never said physio was not an option generally, just in my situation.

OP asked for input on experience, I've shared mine, that's it, honest and accurate. We'll disagree about virtual clinics but I seriously doubt they are in anyway benificial, it's like doing yoga via email, just absurd.

Dempo1 · 13-08-2020 11:34pm

calfmuscle wrote: »

No need for that tone

Agreed and completely un called for, I won't be making an appointment any time soon.

calfmuscle · 13-08-2020 11:35pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Sorry, let me explain, physio doesn't happen immediately after an op, My op had to be done in a private hospital because of restrictions. I went for check up at local general hospital 2 weeks after op at private hospital, xrays checked etc, another check up two weeks later and physio discussed at hospital (tullamore), as my home is in Laois, I was referred to HSE Laois physio in Mountmellick but with restrictions, only phone consultation took place, as useful as a bicycle in a canoe. All HSE clinics, essentially shut, as it happens I've a separate Thyroid condition and all clinics now telephone, beyond absurd but it is what it is was it is, there are many worse off than I.

Thanks for clarifying.
I see now what pathway you had, some lovely people working in mountmellick. I hope it all works out for you.

Dempo1 · 13-08-2020 11:38pm

calfmuscle wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying.
I see now what pathway you had, some lovely people working in mountmellick. I hope it all works out for you.

Your welcome and yes they are lovely, actually dealt with them before. Sorry about that earlier nonsense, good night

karlitob · 14-08-2020 6:54am

Dempo1 wrote: »

physio wasn't an option because service restrictions due to Covid-19.

You’re not correct. This is what you said. Nothing about face to face. Physio is a profession, not an intervention.

I’ve acknowledge that virtual is not ideal. I’ve acknowledged that it didn’t work for you. You’ll appreciate that you’re not the only patient in ireland. Others did and do benefit from it during an unprecedented worldwide pandemic.

Dempo1 · 14-08-2020 7:07am

karlitob wrote: »

You’re not correct. This is what you said. Nothing about face to face. Physio is a profession, not an intervention.

I’ve acknowledge that virtual is not ideal. I’ve acknowledged that it didn’t work for you. You’ll appreciate that you’re not the only patient in ireland. Others did and do benefit from it during an unprecedented worldwide pandemic.

I don't propose to engage with your rudeness, this ends my contribution to this Thread

Alf Veedersane · 14-08-2020 7:08am

karlitob wrote: »

You’re not correct. This is what you said. Nothing about face to face. Physio is a profession, not an intervention.

I’ve acknowledge that virtual is not ideal. I’ve acknowledged that it didn’t work for you. You’ll appreciate that you’re not the only patient in ireland. Others did and do benefit from it during an unprecedented worldwide pandemic.

He understood it to be the case that all physio services were affected. That's all. No need to labour the point.

karlitob · 14-08-2020 7:25am

Dempo1 wrote: »

I don't propose to engage with your rudeness, this ends my contribution to this Thread

There’s no rudeness in my post. Just facts.

14-08-2020 7:52am

karlitob wrote: »

There’s no rudeness in my post. Just facts.

I was reading this thread and have to say I found your comments rude and condescending. The man was talking about his experience, not the experience of everyone in Ireland . You seem to have taken it personally even though he was not your patient.

His answers to what happened him were interesting and a good help to OP.
He is correct in saying Zoom doesn’t cut it when it comes to any form of therapeutic physical care or diagnostics. No need to be so defensive.

karlitob · 14-08-2020 9:05am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I was reading this thread and have to say I found your comments rude and condescending. The man was talking about his experience, not the experience of everyone in Ireland . You seem to have taken it personally even though he was not your patient.

His answers to what happened him were interesting and a good help to OP.
He is correct in saying Zoom doesn’t cut it when it comes to any form of therapeutic physical care or diagnostics. No need to be so defensive.

Thanks for your input. It’s much appreciated.

He certainly described his experience and I have not commented on that. However he went beyond his experience and incorrectly said that physio ‘Wasn’t an option during Covid-19’. This is incorrect. He clearly is not aware of the service arrangements of all public hospital physiotherapy services - regardless of his ‘experience’.

I have already, and will continue to acknowledge, that virtual appointments were not satisfactory to him. How he knows of course since he doesn’t seem to have availed of it for his foot, I would be interested to know. Regardless, he doesn’t speak for physiotherapists and he doesn’t speak for other patients. I also pointed out that there is a clear difference between the profession of physiotherapy and the interventions that are provided. Advice and education are key interventions in the tool box of all physiotherapists and as such can be a valid and effective intervention in a virtual setting for some patient cohorts. I have acknowledged that virtual assessments are clearly not ideal but I disagree that they ‘don’t cut it’ as you put it. In my view, they do ‘cut it’ in the context of an unprecedented worldwide pandemic. It is the best that can be offered for non-urgent patients. Plenty of patients are treated face to face by physios daily during the service restrictions.

My ‘defensiveness’ as you so rudely put it is due to the fact that the posters sweeping comments ‘That physio wasn’t an option’ and other unfair comments about the virtual device provided that other patients will look at on this forum were ill informed and undermine the incredibly hard work Of me and my colleagues as committed frontline workers during this pandemic.

Alf Veedersane · 14-08-2020 9:36am

karlitob wrote: »

Thanks for your input. It’s much appreciated.

He certainly described his experience and I have not commented on that. However he went beyond his experience and incorrectly said that physio ‘Wasn’t an option during Covid-19’. This is incorrect. He clearly is not aware of the service arrangements of all public hospital physiotherapy services - regardless of his ‘experience’.

I have already, and will continue to acknowledge, that virtual appointments were not satisfactory to him. How he knows of course since he doesn’t seem to have availed of it for his foot, I would be interested to know. Regardless, he doesn’t speak for physiotherapists and he doesn’t speak for other patients. I also pointed out that there is a clear difference between the profession of physiotherapy and the interventions that are provided. Advice and education are key interventions in the tool box of all physiotherapists and as such can be a valid and effective intervention in a virtual setting for some patient cohorts. I have acknowledged that virtual assessments are clearly not ideal but I disagree that they ‘don’t cut it’ as you put it. In my view, they do ‘cut it’ in the context of an unprecedented worldwide pandemic. It is the best that can be offered for non-urgent patients. Plenty of patients are treated face to face by physios daily during the service restrictions.

My ‘defensiveness’ as you so rudely put it is due to the fact that the posters sweeping comments ‘That physio wasn’t an option’ and other unfair comments about the virtual device provided that other patients will look at on this forum were ill informed and undermine the incredibly hard work Of me and my colleagues as committed frontline workers during this pandemic.

He clarified that he meant via the HSE, in-person physio wasn't an option. And then again that HSE clinics are shut so phone consultation was what was available through the HSE.

He also did say that he had availed of the virtual assessment and 'treatment'.

You're taking it too personally as a criticism of the services available. It was his personal experience and didn't find it to his satisfaction.

Physio wasn't an option to him, clearly. Either because he was going down the public route or wasn't made aware of the fact that private facilities were open for in-person services. That wasn't clear to a lot of people.

None of his comments read as a criticism of physiotherapy but just that the virtual assessment wasn't satisfactory in his instance and that's fair enough. It's very difficult for a physio, in some instances, to be able to assess to the same degree over Zoom/phone call.

None of what he said undermined physiotherapy or physiotherapists.

karlitob · 14-08-2020 9:51am

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

He clarified that he meant via the HSE, in-person physio wasn't an option. And then again that HSE clinics are shut so phone consultation was what was available through the HSE.

He also did say that he had availed of the virtual assessment and 'treatment'.

You're taking it too personally as a criticism of the services available. It was his personal experience and didn't find it to his satisfaction.

Physio wasn't an option to him, clearly. Either because he was going down the public route or wasn't made aware of the fact that private facilities were open for in-person services. That wasn't clear to a lot of people.

None of his comments read as a criticism of physiotherapy but just that the virtual assessment wasn't satisfactory in his instance and that's fair enough. It's very difficult for a physio, in some instances, to be able to assess to the same degree over Zoom/phone call.

None of what he said undermined physiotherapy or physiotherapists.

Which is your opinion of his opinion. No different to my opinion of his opinion.

It’s interesting how you acknowledge and accept (and even interpret) his experience. But the same not afforded to me.

Alf Veedersane · 14-08-2020 9:53am

karlitob wrote: »

Which is your opinion of his opinion. No different to my opinion of his opinion.

It’s interesting how you acknowledge and accept (and even interpret) his experience. But the same not afforded to me.

You haven't given an experience. Just argued that he was incorrect.

calfmuscle · 14-08-2020 9:54am

karlitob wrote: »

Which is your opinion of his opinion. No different to my opinion of his opinion.

It’s interesting how you acknowledge and accept (and even interpret) his experience. But the same not afforded to me.

Cause you're acting like a petulant child. . .

rofno1 · 14-08-2020 10:31am

Dempo1 wrote: »

As it happens I've had recent surgery on a broken ankle with torn ligaments thrown in, fell off a ladder bang in the middle of lock down.

Recovery time has been more than 12 weeks and still not 100% movement, physio wasn't an option because service restrictions due to Covid-19.

Mine was an emergency op, went well and only spent a night in private hospital . Had the use of a support boot and it was a godsend albeit you can become too dependent on it.

As an aside and not related, my recovery was extended because of an infection in wound (pins not removed correctly at 2 week after op check up in local hospital), but that aside I'm going to say 12 weeks minimum

Hi Dempo, sorry to butt in on thread, but notice you said you can become too dependent on support boot. Managed to fracture ankle last week and am in boot now too for 6 week and am just wondering what you meant?

Thanks!

Brian? · 14-08-2020 12:04pm

karlitob wrote: »

There’s no rudeness in my post. Just facts.

mod note: Actually there is. Please take it down a notch and mind your tone please.

karlitob · 14-08-2020 12:21pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You haven't given an experience. Just argued that he was incorrect.

He is. I already highlighted it a few times.

I did give the experience of a public sector frontline worker risking my health throughout the pandemic.

karlitob · 14-08-2020 12:24pm

calfmuscle wrote: »

Cause you're acting like a petulant child. . .

That’s quite rude and is a personal attack on me rather than the content of what I posted. I made no personal comment directed to you. Play the ball and not the person.

Brian? · 14-08-2020 2:18pm

calfmuscle wrote: »

Cause you're acting like a petulant child. . .

Mod Note: if you don't like something, report it. Let's leave all the back and forth there for now please

I have deleted some nonconstructive posts that were in no way helpful to the OP. Can we keep it constructive from here?

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 2:08pm

Hope you heal 100% soon. Good luck fuddy!

xx

Fuddyduddy · 30-01-2022 9:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/114300377#Comment_114300377

So about a year and half since this post!

I am road running, squatting - doing everything I did before. I never got the surgery. My mobility is less than it was (less plantar and dorsiflexion distance of my left foot than right, which made squats a bit less pretty) and it clicks when I rotate it, took a while for my left calf to gain the same contraction ability. But in terms of strength everything has healed quite well. Slightly less sprint speed due to less spring in left leg.

Found that Kneesovertoes guy and have been doing lots of strengthening exercises.

Has anyone had ankle surgery before?

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