Becoming a solicitor without going to college?

Seanf999 · 25-05-2019 2:46pm #1

Long story short I've been looking at every which way to go on and get further training, be that a degree or otherwise.
I was looking at Arts and teaching - realised that was probably not the right route for me so I started looking at going back and studying law (did well in the one law exam I had in college + I enjoyed it).

Now I'm looking at doing the preliminary exam and going from there as opposed to going back and paying for a Law degree or studying Arts and transferring into an LLB.

I don't have money to blow, that's part the reason I want to forgo college if I can at all.
I probably won't be able to afford the ~€7k or so for the prep courses not to mention they are all in Dublin. I am not.

So I'm looking teaching myself while I work in a warehouse.

Had I not been persuaded/an idiot in Leaving Cert I would have gone into Law, I would have had the damn points back then (before system changed, my points are weighted less because of the change) and I wouldn't have wasted 2 years worth of fees.
But thats in the past, could I teach myself and pass the exams?

jpboard1 · 25-05-2019 2:48pm

Seanf999 wrote: »

Long story short I've been looking at every which way to go on and get further training, be that a degree or otherwise.
I was looking at Arts and teaching - realised that was probably not the right route for me so I started looking at going back and studying law (did well in the one law exam I had in college + I enjoyed it).

Now I'm looking at doing the preliminary exam and going from there as opposed to going back and paying for a Law degree or studying Arts and transferring into an LLB.

I don't have money to blow, that's part the reason I want to forgo college if I can at all.
I probably won't be able to afford the ~€7k or so for the prep courses not to mention they are all in Dublin. I am not.

So I'm looking teaching myself while I work in a warehouse.

Had I not been persuaded/an idiot in Leaving Cert I would have gone into Law, I would have had the damn points back then (before system changed, my points are weighted less because of the change) and I wouldn't have wasted 2 years worth of fees.
But thats in the past, could I teach myself and pass the exams?

That’s a tough road you are looking. Plus, was the challenge in law not always the apprenticeship afterwards rather than the qualifications?

banie01 · 25-05-2019 2:50pm

I might be mistaken in this but is a Degree not a requisite to do the FE1's?
It need not be a law degree of course but I did think that a degree was a minimum requirement before the FE1s?

Seanf999 · 25-05-2019 3:04pm

banie01 wrote: »

I might be mistaken in this but is a Degree not a requisite to do the FE1's?
It need not be a law degree of course but I did think that a degree was a minimum requirement before the FE1s?

https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Become-a-Solicitor/Preliminary-Examination/

‘For non-graduates’

One of the listed exemptions is a level 7 or higher so I assume it’s for those without a degree or any kind.

Seanf999 · 25-05-2019 3:06pm

jpboard1 wrote: »

That’s a tough road you are looking. Plus, was the challenge in law not always the apprenticeship afterwards rather than the qualifications?

Yeah you’re right.
I would be somewhat friendly with a solicitor who owns a pretty big practice.
I know he hired a woman locally years back who went down this route he was impressed that she didn’t go to college.. I would have thought that would work against you but maybe not.

McCrack · 25-05-2019 3:08pm

You don't particularly need a degree, you can do the prep courses for the entrance exams and complete them. I would strongly advise getting practical experience in a solrs office as you are studying

banie01 · 25-05-2019 3:28pm

Seanf999 wrote: »

https://www.lawsociety.ie/Public/Become-a-Solicitor/Preliminary-Examination/

‘For non-graduates’

One of the listed exemptions is a level 7 or higher so I assume it’s for those without a degree or any kind.

Level 7 is an ordinary level degree though? As in a 3yr qualification or its equivalent.

Law clerking or para-legaling experience can count towards an exemption though, which is handy!

Dirkziggler · 25-05-2019 3:31pm

I don't know how Id feel being represented someone who is self taught rather then heading to Uni. It may be tough unless your
friend is looking to help you and take you on board.

Seanf999 · 25-05-2019 3:50pm

Dirkziggler wrote: »

I don't know how Id feel being represented someone who is self taught rather then heading to Uni. It may be tough unless your
friend is looking to help you and take you on board.

I think you're putting far too much weight on a degree.
I've seen the guys and gals doing law, they drink as much as the doctors.

I think I'm at least equally as competent, if I was to pass the exams having not studied Law at third level I'd argue that's more impressive than having done the degree.

Would you feel better or worse if he or she had an irrelevant degree or a level 7?

Seanf999 · 25-05-2019 3:54pm

banie01 wrote: »

Level 7 is an ordinary level degree though? As in a 3yr qualification or its equivalent.

Law clerking or para-legaling experience can count towards an exemption though, which is handy!

I think it's a good system, I don't put too much backing behind a college degree, and I think this option would suit me far more than a level 8 or a level 7 and then going on to train, so it's a minimum of 3 years and a fortune or one set of exams and then the same old plan.

jpboard1 · 25-05-2019 3:55pm

Seanf999 wrote: »

I think you're putting far too much weight on a degree.
I've seen the guys and gals doing law, they drink as much as the doctors.

I think I'm at least equally as competent, if I was to pass the exams having not studied Law at third level I'd argue that's more impressive than having done the degree.

Would you feel better or worse if he or she had an irrelevant degree or a level 7?

‘They drink as much...’ ??

banie01 · 25-05-2019 4:20pm

Seanf999 wrote: »

I think it's a good system, I don't put too much backing behind a college degree, and I think this option would suit me far more than a level 8 or a level 7 and then going on to train, so it's a minimum of 3 years and a fortune or one set of exams and then the same old plan.

So what is your plan then?
Clerk for 5 yrs and do the exams?
As without that, you still need a level 7 qualification which needs 3 yrs?

I'm at a loss as to what your aim to get around that is?

Seanf999 · 25-05-2019 4:23pm

jpboard1 wrote: »

‘They drink as much...’ ??

Medical students were notorious for getting buckled, they didn't go out often but when they did you'd know about it.

One guy wanted/wants to be a trauma surgeon, nice fella, barred from most nightclubs.

Seanf999 · 25-05-2019 4:25pm

banie01 wrote: »

So what is your plan then?
Clerk for 5 yrs and do the exams?
As without that, you still need a level 7 qualification which needs 3 yrs?

I'm at a loss as to what your aim to get around that is?

Not necessarily be a clerk, but to stay working in whatever capacity and study at the same time.
Where I currently work is very lenient so long as you make up your hours so taking days off for exams wouldn't be an issue.
If I could I would try and get some work relevant to that of a solicitor but we both know that's not easily done.

I was more so thinking of sitting the exams within a year or two.

Edit - My thinking is a level 7 will cost me roughly €3000 a year, where I can only work over the summer and I still have to go and pay for the solicitor exams after the degree.
That's 3 years where I could not spend 3k a year, where I could work full time, and where I could just sit the prep exam vs the 6 end of semester exams I would have to do to get the level 7

banie01 · 25-05-2019 4:31pm

Seanf999 wrote: »

Not necessarily be a clerk, but to stay working in whatever capacity and study at the same time.
Where I currently work is very lenient so long as you make up your hours so taking days off for exams wouldn't be an issue.
If I could I would try and get some work relevant to that of a solicitor but we both know that's not easily done.

I was more so thinking of sitting the exams within a year or two.

Edit - My thinking is a level 7 will cost me roughly €3000 a year, where I can only work over the summer and I still have to go and pay for the solicitor exams after the degree.
That's 3 years where I could not spend 3k a year, where I could work full time, and where I could just sit the prep exam vs the 6 end of semester exams I would have to do to get the level 7

You need to have either a minimum level 7 qualification, or you need to satisfy the education committee that you have clerked and have sufficient experience which is specified at 5 years minimum and be signed off by 2 solicitors to bypass the level 7 requirement?

You seem to be of the frame of mind that you can work, study on the side and pass the exams within a 12/18mth timeframe?
There is no magic shortcut that will allow you to qualify without satisfying the criteria in either a qualification or in time served.
You need to satisfy the eligibility/entry requirement for the exa, and nothing in the path you've outlined eliminates the need to meet the specified criteria?

_Whimsical_ · 25-05-2019 4:36pm

I think you've misunderstood the enterance criteria.

Unfortunately level 7 means you have achieved in a standard 3 year degree program.
If you do not take a graduate entry like above the other option open to you is to work as a legal clerk for upto 5 years and study in your own time in order to pass exams.

You can't just study yourself at home and then turn up for exams unfortunately.

25-05-2019 4:40pm

banie01 wrote: »

Not saying this is not possible, but 1st of all you need to satisfy the eligibility/entry exam and nothing in the path you've outlined eliminates the need to meet the specified criteria?

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I think you've misunderstood the enterance criteria.

I think you're both missing the OP's intentions. The link is to the "Preliminary Exam", not the FE-1. You don't need to do the Preliminary Exam if you already have a degree, but you can do it if you don't have one. Passing the Preliminary Exam makes you eligible for the FE-1

25-05-2019 4:43pm

@OP, is it possible to pass the Preliminary Exam while being entirely self-taught? Almost certainly, yes. Is it easy? No. You would be at a massive disadvantage. There's a reason most people go through the degree route, or at the very least a preparatory course

banie01 · 25-05-2019 4:47pm

28064212 wrote: »

I think you're both missing the OP's intentions. The link is to the "Preliminary Exam", not the FE-1. You don't need to do the Preliminary Exam if you already have a degree, but you can do it if you don't have one. Passing the Preliminary Exam makes you eligible for the FE-1

Ah Thanks for that clarification 28064212

@OP from reviewing the curriculum, yes you should be able to pass that in the timeframe specified.
However that only allows you to be eligible to undertake the FE-1, and as many solicitors will attest even with the benefit of a legal education they are not the easiest set of exams to pass without significant learning and study support.

Best of luck whatever path you take with it!

Seanf999 · 25-05-2019 4:58pm

banie01 wrote: »

You need to have either a minimum level 7 qualification, or you need to satisfy the education committee that you have clerked and have sufficient experience which is specified at 5 years minimum and be signed off by 2 solicitors to bypass the level 7 requirement?

You seem to be of the frame of mind that you can work, study on the side and pass the exams within a 12/18mth timeframe?
There is no magic shortcut that will allow you to qualify without satisfying the criteria in either a qualification or in time served.
You need to satisfy the eligibility/entry requirement for the exa, and nothing in the path you've outlined eliminates the need to meet the specified criteria?

Level 7 or clerked for a minimum of 5 years for an exemption, not in order to sit them preliminary exam before the FE-1

Seanf999 · 26-05-2019 7:56pm

28064212 wrote: »

I think you're both missing the OP's intentions. The link is to the "Preliminary Exam", not the FE-1. You don't need to do the Preliminary Exam if you already have a degree, but you can do it if you don't have one. Passing the Preliminary Exam makes you eligible for the FE-1

Yes thank you,
I thought I was losing it there for a second!

Seanf999 · 26-05-2019 10:13pm

banie01 wrote: »

Ah Thanks for that clarification 28064212

@OP from reviewing the curriculum, yes you should be able to pass that in the timeframe specified.
However that only allows you to be eligible to undertake the FE-1, and as many solicitors will attest even with the benefit of a legal education they are not the easiest set of exams to pass without significant learning and study support.

Best of luck whatever path you take with it!

Now the big question is is it worth it?
Will I be looked at less favourably for not have a degree?

MrFinance · 26-05-2019 10:16pm

Seanf999 wrote: »

I think you're putting far too much weight on a degree.
I've seen the guys and gals doing law, they drink as much as the doctors.

I think I'm at least equally as competent, if I was to pass the exams having not studied Law at third level I'd argue that's more impressive than having done the degree.

Would you feel better or worse if he or she had an irrelevant degree or a level 7?

Surely a p!sstake?!?

randomrb · 31-05-2019 3:31pm

Seanf999 wrote: »

Now the big question is is it worth it?
Will I be looked at less favourably for not have a degree?

Key here is whether you will have a job. Your first step now is to look at past papers for the prelim exam and see if you reckon you could pass them.

If you do then you need to get legal experience somewhere and try to find someone that will take you on or give you some kind of commitment.

As said before the FE1's are no joke and it would take an extraordinary amount of work to pass them without a degree but it is possible.

Johnboy1951 · 02-06-2019 11:32am

randomrb wrote: »

...

As said before the FE1's are no joke and it would take an extraordinary amount of work to pass them without a degree but it is possible.

It has been previously posted that an irrelevant degree would suffice ....... is that true?

If so how might that make the FE1s easier than no degree?

Only asking out of general interest, thanks.

4ensic15 · 02-06-2019 9:23pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It has been previously posted that an irrelevant degree would suffice ....... is that true?

If so how might that make the FE1s easier than no degree?

Only asking out of general interest, thanks.

Any degree will involve some generic academic training. That will be helpful in attempting the Fe-1s.

randomrb · 04-06-2019 10:33am

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It has been previously posted that an irrelevant degree would suffice ....... is that true?

If so how might that make the FE1s easier than no degree?

Only asking out of general interest, thanks.

It just the experience of doing exams at a college level and understanding how to go about answering questions etc. there are lots of little skills an tips and tricks that you pick up that you take for granted

Becoming a solicitor without going to college?

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