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18-04-2019, 15:24   #1531
Assetbacked
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Originally Posted by beauf View Post
Maybe you'll explain how they are sucking wealth from the younger generations???

Give it 30 yrs and consider its you, facing huge property tax, perhaps poll tax, rates etc and massive health insurance bills, nursing home fees of 100k a year, and all pensions raided until they are worth nothing.

I think you might realise that is not the older generations, but the Govts you've voted in that are sucking your wealth from you.
The ironic thing is that, if I was caught in the rental crisis until my 40s, I won't actually have to worry about the above as I won't have any security into retirement meaning the State will have to pick up the tab.
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18-04-2019, 15:27   #1532
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lol... I don't know what to do with this... These are exactly (some of) the conditions that created that last recession. It doesn't work. It hasn't worked, thats why they stopped it. It litterally caused death and destruction.
Pushing credit onto people is what caused the last recession. Prudent lending went out the door. You can't blame people for taking "free money" (equally, people need to accept they over-extended and take their justified evictions). The current crisis has emerged due to the lack of apartment and home building the last 10 years so it is the solution to get appropriate housing built in the areas that need it.
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18-04-2019, 15:27   #1533
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I'm not saying it is they themselves but a system which pervades allowing them to benefit disproportionately. This article explains it quite well http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/conten...irish-economy/
  1. You don't benefit from DMW's eloquence with words
  2. I'm not sure you fully understand the article
  3. Yes I understand what he's saying.... But...
  4. .... That is not what you said above
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18-04-2019, 15:33   #1534
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Pushing credit onto people is what caused the last recession. Prudent lending went out the door. You can't blame people for taking "free money" (equally, people need to accept they over-extended and take their justified evictions). The current crisis has emerged due to the lack of apartment and home building the last 10 years so it is the solution to get appropriate housing built in the areas that need it.
Am I reading this right... you want to create a recession-like economy, you want to be tough on lending, you want to limit credit, you want houses built on a massive scale (+apartments), you don't want a free market that can increase or decrease depending on inflationary inputs or demand. You want individuals and landlords/investors to compete in the same market. You don't want old people to retan the property they worked hard for. You think it outragious that property should increase in value. Note the word *value.

You want it all...
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18-04-2019, 15:34   #1535
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I'm not saying it is they themselves but a system which pervades allowing them to benefit disproportionately. This article explains it quite well http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/conten...irish-economy/
Thats not what that article is about.

Also look at the messenger and where they live.
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18-04-2019, 15:35   #1536
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Pushing credit onto people is what caused the last recession. Prudent lending went out the door. You can't blame people for taking "free money" (equally, people need to accept they over-extended and take their justified evictions). The current crisis has emerged due to the lack of apartment and home building the last 10 years so it is the solution to get appropriate housing built in the areas that need it.
Look beyond peoples individual borrowing.
Who gave them the money and why?
Perhaps those institutions borrowed big and needed to more that debt onward.
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18-04-2019, 15:37   #1537
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The ironic thing is that, if I was caught in the rental crisis until my 40s, I won't actually have to worry about the above as I won't have any security into retirement meaning the State will have to pick up the tab.
That suggests such people have goals that are not sustainable.
Perhaps they should think the master plan.
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18-04-2019, 15:37   #1538
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Why take a debt when there is a massive budget for housing overall? Shouldn't this miserable government use those funds to build more?

Other than that I agree with the fact that this government isn't going to do anything and that next elections are key.
The decisions taken are not just financial ones. Firstly the tax take for the govt from private (non institutional) landlords is in the main over 50%.

For this the Govt don't have the risk of non payment, don't have the maintenance costs. The Govt also are not blamed on any eviction should it happen.

Firstly while in the long term from a financial perspective it would make sense for the State to build rather than rent with this comes its own problems. We would need significant capital investment to build the number of properties needed. We can't access the capital to do this because of the conditions of the bailout. If the properties were built where would the be built, we have ample land outside of Dublin, Cork and Galway for example but people want their "forever home" in these areas. I don't have an issue with supporting those who genuinely need support, I do however have an issue with people picking and choosing where they will agree to live despite the fact they are receiving heavily subsidized housing.

Secondly, there are the cost savings to the State for support staff to maintain council properties.

Thirdly because of our culture people are never really held to account for their actions in all sectors of society. Be it for committing criminal offences or even failing to pay mortgages, rents, fines etc.

All in all what the State "pays" for housing is not actually a bad deal when you consider the above.
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18-04-2019, 15:52   #1539
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1.You don't benefit from DMW's eloquence with words
2.I'm not sure you fully understand the article
3.Yes I understand what he's saying.... But...
4..... That is not what you said above
The post I was replying to said this;


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You are complaining that people buying property and having it appreciate are blocking those who want to buy.

But those unable to buy they did manage to buy then are they not doing exactly the same thing?
This post misread what I was saying - I was not complaining about people in the present day who are buying, but rather was complaining that property prices have inflated dramatically in recent decades, compounded by the rental crisis. The burden on those renting and hoping to buy is disproportionately against them. House prices need to dramatically climb down or else the burden on income-tax paying, renting workers should be alleviated by extracting some of the wealth in property back into the exchequer.
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18-04-2019, 16:15   #1540
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The post I was replying to said this;




This post misread what I was saying - I was not complaining about people in the present day who are buying, but rather was complaining that property prices have inflated dramatically in recent decades, compounded by the rental crisis. The burden on those renting and hoping to buy is disproportionately against them. House prices need to dramatically climb down or else the burden on income-tax paying, renting workers should be alleviated by extracting some of the wealth in property back into the exchequer.
I actually don't get what you are saying, probably because you are all over the place... but, the article above was about nimbyism and its effect on the market. What you are talking about is taking from people who bought and stuggled to own their property in order to give to those who don't...

So, when you eventually own your property and have security for your future, are you going to willingly give up your property to help those who don't own yet?

Bearing in mind we will be living in a completely different ecoomy at that time... Are you going to give up whats you have built and put your future/your retirement in the hands of the young people & trust them to do the best for you?

I certainly wouldn't.
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18-04-2019, 16:52   #1541
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I actually don't get what you are saying, probably because you are all over the place... but, the article above was about nimbyism and its effect on the market. What you are talking about is taking from people who bought and stuggled to own their property in order to give to those who don't...

So, when you eventually own your property and have security for your future, are you going to willingly give up your property to help those who don't own yet?

Bearing in mind we will be living in a completely different ecoomy at that time... Are you going to give up whats you have built and put your future/your retirement in the hands of the young people & trust them to do the best for you?

I certainly wouldn't.

I'm not saying to take from them what they bought and struggled for, I'm talking about preventing so much wealth getting pumped into hyper-inflated property prices by bringing in measures to greatly reduce the cost of buying homes in Ireland as we are very much a society where home ownership is something people have to aim for and not long-term renting.
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18-04-2019, 16:58   #1542
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I'm not saying to take from them what they bought and struggled for, I'm talking about preventing so much wealth getting pumped into hyper-inflated property prices by bringing in measures to greatly reduce the cost of buying homes in Ireland as we are very much a society where home ownership is something people have to aim for and not long-term renting.
So by forcebly reducing property prices by 40% you will either push people into massive negative equity, with debt greater than the value of their assets, or you will take wealth away from those who have worked hard to gain it. BTW massive international firms will realise this drain and march right back in to take a slice of the pie...

Alternatively, you could meet the world economy, allow house prices to trend in line with international levels & house many people by improving rental conditions.

No matter what you do, property prices will increase, due to world markets and inflation. It is written.
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18-04-2019, 17:02   #1543
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The post I was replying to said this;

This post misread what I was saying - I was not complaining about people in the present day who are buying, but rather was complaining that property prices have inflated dramatically in recent decades, compounded by the rental crisis. The burden on those renting and hoping to buy is disproportionately against them. House prices need to dramatically climb down or else the burden on income-tax paying, renting workers should be alleviated by extracting some of the wealth in property back into the exchequer.
The people in the present day are the same people as those who bought 20 yrs ago.
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18-04-2019, 17:02   #1544
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So by forcebly reducing property prices by 40% you will either push people into massive negative equity, with debt greater than the value of their assets, or you will take wealth away from those who have worked hard to gain it. BTW massive international firms will realise this drain and march right back in to take a slice of the pie...

Alternatively, you could meet the world economy, allow house prices to trend in line with international levels & house many people by improving rental conditions.

No matter what you do, property prices will increase, due to world markets and inflation. It is written.
But then how did property prices crash during the great recession after 2008? You are claiming that property prices will continue to rise even though we already know we are in another property bubble of sorts.
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18-04-2019, 17:09   #1545
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we already know we are in another property bubble of sorts.
we do?
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