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13-05-2019, 23:09   #151
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Jordan Peterson on why Chaos is Symbolically Feminine in terms of archetypes and brain architecture as contained in his 12 Rules book was highly problematic, as was Peterson's continued claim that the left-brain right-brain comparison was a scientific discovery beyond reasonable doubt, and continues to be a foundation argument for Peterson in both Maps and 12 Rules; rather than merely a metaphor, which, as a metaphor should not be taken literally as it was a distortion of reality. Further he draws from Disney movies for additional support of this questionable positions regarding chaos being symbolically feminine referencing the "evil queen" as if popular anecdotal support from movie goers added additional foundation for his feminine chaos claim.
Peterson's 12 Rules for Life has subtitle: "An Antidote to Chaos." What does this subtitle suggest about Peterson's meaning when he contends chaos is symbolically feminine?
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15-05-2019, 18:24   #152
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Peterson's 12 Rules for Life has subtitle: "An Antidote to Chaos." What does this subtitle suggest about Peterson's meaning when he contends chaos is symbolically feminine?
Peterson enjoys drawing attention to himself by stirring up chaos?
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16-05-2019, 20:47   #153
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In 12 Rules Peterson claims that lobsters and humans exhibit hierarchies, and that there is an evolutionary explanation for this link because they both have serotonin in their systems. Peterson claims that increasing serotonin in lobsters and humans increases dominance hierarchies. Ergo, according to Peterson, hierarchies are natural. Nature not nurture locks in both lobster and human behavior to some extraordinary extent.

Unfortunately, this oversimplistic, misleading, and to some extent spurious leaps by Peterson from comparative anatomy to behavior between species fails to account for the extraordinary differences between lobsters and humans in terms of evolution, physiology, neurochemistry, environment, behavior, etc., so typical of his simplistic arguments in 12 Rules. Peterson wraps a superficially scientific appearing cloak about his arguments, which would fail a rigorous scientific method examination, much less a face value review, where Peterson exhibits scientifiction rather than valid and reliable science in his arguments.

Both lobsters and bees evidence serotonin, and bees have a stronger hierarchical structure than humans. And guess what gender rules bees? Not the males, who are killed off after mating with the queen. But I will not attempt, like Peterson does, to pseudo-scientifically do a comparison between bees and humans, and how bee or lobster behavior should serve as a guide for human behavior.
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20-05-2019, 00:45   #154
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I find it strange. This has zero to do with philosophy but...

I will admit there are certain qualities that seem intrinsically feminine or at least traditionally feminine.

Softness , nurturing etc intuition.

For all their talk about wanting women to BE feminine the alt right/Peterson etc doesn't value these qualities very highly.

Maybe women would feel more inclined to be feminine if femininity was valued more by the west and the alt right/Peterson instead of despised and mocked.
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20-05-2019, 02:56   #155
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I find it strange. This has zero to do with philosophy but...
Peterson has been reported a philosopher. Although he lacks any formally constructed philosophy. 12 Rules and Maps are part of the self-help genre, primarily directed towards a male audience.

"How philosopher Jordan Peterson will change the world."

"...you overhear references to Jung, identity politics, biology, responsibility, faith, Nietzsche, the importance of not lying, and Solzhenitsyn."

Superficial references to Nietzsche does not a philosopher make of Peterson.

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Maybe women would feel more inclined to be feminine if femininity was valued more by the west and the alt right/Peterson instead of despised and mocked.
"The audience to this beyond-sold-out event is disproportionately male..."

Peterson's message has obviously been directed at men. If he wishes that audience, fine. But don't expect all women to sit silently when Peterson goes on the world wide web and advocates that North America should return to the era of Ozzie and Harriet paternalism (see Maps).
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27-05-2019, 09:03   #156
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Peterson has been reported a philosopher. Although he lacks any formally constructed philosophy. 12 Rules and Maps are part of the self-help genre, primarily directed towards a male audience.

"How philosopher Jordan Peterson will change the world."

"...you overhear references to Jung, identity politics, biology, responsibility, faith, Nietzsche, the importance of not lying, and Solzhenitsyn."

Superficial references to Nietzsche does not a philosopher make of Peterson.



"The audience to this beyond-sold-out event is disproportionately male..."

Peterson's message has obviously been directed at men. If he wishes that audience, fine. But don't expect all women to sit silently when Peterson goes on the world wide web and advocates that North America should return to the era of Ozzie and Harriet paternalism (see Maps).
It's interesting they 'sell him' as a philosopher, he always says he's a psychologist, and most of his audience may be male, but 80% of his students in college were female, go figure.
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27-05-2019, 14:55   #157
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I was having a look around Peterson's blog to see if he styles himself as a philosopher. In his podcast archive though, I saw one with a description of one of his guests:

Screenshot_2019-05-27 Jordan B Peterson Podcast.png

It's a bit odd to describe/agree with description of, someone's facial features of a guest isn't it? (well, these days anyway). Would he describe a woman as such? Perhaps he's virtue signalling that he is in touch with his feminine/anima side.
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28-05-2019, 08:17   #158
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... 80% of his students in college were female, go figure.
Do you have a link that confirms "80% of his students in college were female?" Thanks in advance.
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28-05-2019, 18:10   #159
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Do you have a link that confirms "80% of his students in college were female?" Thanks in advance.
Good question.
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31-05-2019, 19:43   #160
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Do you have a link that confirms "80% of his students in college were female?" Thanks in advance.
I'll try and find the link but he said so himself in a number of interviews... Especially when he talks about the state of the 'humanities' in Universities...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCkZKjSmdu0


https://www.apa.org/monitor/2017/07-08/women-psychology (this one refers to the figures being 75% women studying psycology)

I'm not gonna lie, because I hadn't watched his vids in long time I had to trawl through loads and struggled (where as i knew there were at least two, and these links are not them!!). If I find more I'll post... but I've got to get away from this screen!!!! I'll honestly have another look and add more links
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06-06-2019, 04:19   #161
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Still looking. Have not found cite. For women enrolled in Peterson's college classes. Gender percentage M-F?
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06-06-2019, 04:25   #162
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Still looking. Have not found cite. For women enrolled in Peterson's college classes. Gender percentage M-F?
I've watched enough of his lectures to see it is around 80%. Just take a look at any random lecture if you haven't already, it's crystal clear.
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06-06-2019, 04:28   #163
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I've watched enough of his lectures to see it is around 80%. Just take a look at any random lecture if you haven't already, it's crystal clear.
Watched small number Jordan vids. Certainly not all. Those I watched, just-eye-balling audience, there were more men than women. Not a random sample on my part. Rather convenience sample that cannot be representative or generalized.
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06-06-2019, 04:41   #164
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Watched small number Jordan vids. Certainly not all. Those I watched, just-eye-balling audience, there were more men than women. Not a random sample on my part. Rather convenience sample that cannot be representative or generalized.
Apologies, I mean his college lecture classes specifically, it's ponytails from wall to wall, with a male or two scattered around. They're not particularly interesting videos, usually highlighting archetypes and recurring myths in The Lion King or Pinnochio.

There are nuggets of wisdom scattered throughout of course. The point is I've watched enough to see around 80% is accurate.

Edit - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm_2zmX6Akc

Around the 15 min mark is a good angle showing the make-up of a typical class, in case anyone thinks around 80% is an exaggeration. No clue if the content of the video, I just plucked the first one I found.

Last edited by Hobosan; 06-06-2019 at 05:36.
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06-06-2019, 17:49   #165
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They're not particularly interesting videos, usually highlighting archetypes and recurring myths in The Lion King or Pinnochio.
There are nuggets of wisdom scattered throughout of course..
Here’s my take: There is a superficial depth to them that was initially to me quite interesting, in an intellectually stimulating way. In terms of psychology, I was quite interested in Jung’s approach, even though I have always viewed it as hokum. It had high intellectual curiosity value for me, despite being mystical pseudoscience.
Peterson imposes his personality in an entertaining way in his lectures, which are a blend of his clinical psychology groundings and Jung’s archetypal claptrap, compiled as a (confusing) map of action in the world. I suppose he is proposing a meta-ethical theory of action: instead of, say, Virtue Theory, he has an evolutionary theory, which I have previously dubbed ‘Biological Traditionalism’ – basically a ‘stay-in-your-lane-conservatism-because-that’s-the-way-nature is’ philosophy.
Peterson’s eclectic brand of self-help meta-ethics manages then to start off with an intellectual base, appealing initially to inchoate academia (and many in the broader public), but ends up in the justification of male hierarchy, attracting the alt-right.
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