2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1

Cyrus · 01-03-2021 1:45pm

DataDude wrote: »

Offers already at €1.055m after a couple of days. Yikes!

at least it supports my assertion that it would have been worth north of 1.25m when extended and renovated

whether it will be worth the 1.5m itll now cost im not as sure.

DataDude · 01-03-2021 2:32pm

Cyrus wrote: »

at least it supports my assertion that it would have been worth north of 1.25m when extended and renovated

whether it will be worth the 1.5m itll now cost im not as sure.

Yep - good call! When we realised that this went for €1.15m last year with half the garden sold off and east facing we knew no. 36 would way exceeding asking. When it seems like it's too good to be true...

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/66-albert-road-lower-sandycove-county-dublin/4451797

decreds · 01-03-2021 8:16pm

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

I think theres going to be a lot of people in a few months feeling very sorry for themselves when they realise they have grossly overpaid for houses they dont really like at all.

The one in Raheny posted a little while ago could cost 100k to 110k to renovate if a modern heating system and insulation is on your list, place would need to be gutted.

15k on a new kitchen, 6k on a new bathroom, new windows, new heating, insulation, labour to rip out old fittings, replastering, rewiring in parts im sure at least and top to bottom repainting, flooring etc.

Not much change out of 550k if you get it up to modern spec at that price with various fees etc.

Never mind if you want to put on an extension.

100%, nail on the head.

I'm in a watsapp group with friends i grew up with in Santry and links to myhome/daft and PPR are comical.

Without fail property is advertised as Glasnevin/Santry and sold when it's actually Ballymun or Finglas. We see the same in other areas e.g Edenmore/Raheny, Blanch/Castleknock, etc.

Most of the property being exchange now and within the past few years was purchased by the sellers for fractions of what they are getting now.

People purchasing at the moment and within the past few years are being taken to the cleaners.

Padre_Pio · 01-03-2021 8:23pm

decreds wrote: »

People purchasing at the moment and within the past few years are being taken to the cleaners.

I agree/disagree with this to an extent.

The people who bought 2006-2008 were also taken to the cleaners, but only those who bought the worst rat hole apartments are in neg equity now. Ireland looks on course for another boom bust cycle, though people have been predicting the bust for the last 5 years at least.

At the end of the day, people need to buy a house. Chances are, if they stay there more than 10 years, they'll be making money. No govt is going to change the cycle, they can't! Anyone who owns a home is happy out with the situation right now.

Sweet.Science · 01-03-2021 8:34pm

decreds wrote: »

100%, nail on the head.

I'm in a watsapp group with friends i grew up with in Santry and links to myhome/daft and PPR are comical.

Without fail property is advertised as Glasnevin/Santry and sold when it's actually Ballymun or Finglas. We see the same in other areas e.g Edenmore/Raheny, Blanch/Castleknock, etc.

Most of the property being exchange now and within the past few years was purchased by the sellers for fractions of what they are getting now.

People purchasing at the moment and within the past few years are being taken to the cleaners.

Of course most of the houses being bought now we're bought for fractions of the cost . Is that not obvious ? Older generations are dying

Once it isn't an investment and the repayments are affordable it doesn't really matter

0gac3yjefb5sv7 · 01-03-2021 9:04pm

I wonder how many years prices can keep going up? Surely there has to be a limit as wages aren't going up even a quarter as fast.

Padre_Pio · 01-03-2021 9:18pm

MattS1 wrote: »

I wonder how many years prices can keep going up? Surely there has to be a limit as wages aren't going up even a quarter as fast.

Govt will probably come out and increase HTB to keep the party going.

Smiley11 · 01-03-2021 9:39pm

MattS1 wrote: »

I wonder how many years prices can keep going up? Surely there has to be a limit as wages aren't going up even a quarter as fast.

The ferocity of bidding is definitely buoying current asking & selling prices. I'm no economist but I can't see this situation lasting too long. The 3.5 times cap won't change so unless people have massive deposits saved, which is quite possible in some instances, demand will have to ease at some price levels. I can't see any significant easing in the next couple of years but then again the property market is utterly unpredicatble so who knows?

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 12:00am

According to Glenveagh’s 2020 results:

“The average selling price on its core units was €311,000, which was down from €321,000, reflecting the group’s focus on suburban starter-home schemes.”

So with Cairn Homes stating recently that their average selling price during 2020 being c. €350k, we are getting ballpark figures for what the bigger developers are building each of their units for.

And, it’s a lot less than what DCC, the SCSI etc. have been stating for the past few years.

Link to Irish Times article here: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/covid-driving-demand-for-three-and-four-bed-homes-glenveagh-1.4495744

02-03-2021 12:29am

The banks in Ireland reduced time for using mortgages from 12 months to 6 months
Other words if person who took the mortgage did not bought house in 6 months he will have start approval process from zero
All this says that banks supporting high prices and want give higher mortgages as much as possible
Other words property markets are not that strong if need that sort of intervention and property prices possibly reached the top
And as usual government does not care about it because as they usually says Market will adjust him self ( how this worked before we all know )

TheSheriff · 02-03-2021 1:02am

Deleted User wrote: »

The banks in Ireland reduced time for using mortgages from 12 months to 6 months
Other words if person who took the mortgage did not bought house in 6 months he will have start approval process from zero
All this says that banks supporting high prices and want give higher mortgages as much as possible
Other words property markets are not that strong if need that sort of intervention and property prices possibly reached the top
And as usual government does not care about it because as they usually says Market will adjust him self ( how this worked before we all know )

Likely bank dependent ?... Was mortgage approved in 2019/2020 and had to renew after six months... With BOI. This was pre-Covid

Timing belt · 02-03-2021 1:47am

<SNIP>

Padre_Pio · 02-03-2021 2:32am

MattS1 wrote: »

I wonder how many years prices can keep going up? Surely there has to be a limit as wages aren't going up even a quarter as fast.

Are house prices increasing though?

Anyone with skin in the game says yes, but the CSO says no, based on the property price register.

We're seeing some stupid behaviour the last few months, but I doubt its widespread.

Nika Bolokov · 02-03-2021 9:49am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Are house prices increasing though?

Anyone with skin in the game says yes, but the CSO says no, based on the property price register.

We're seeing some stupid behaviour the last few months, but I doubt its widespread.

It'll be interesting to see if this becomes widespread or will it just be limited to a few desperados paying the guts of half a mil to live in Coolock.

Markitron · 02-03-2021 9:57am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Are house prices increasing though?

Anyone with skin in the game says yes, but the CSO says no, based on the property price register.

We're seeing some stupid behaviour the last few months, but I doubt its widespread.

When a dilapidated terraced house in Edenmore (with a BER rating that is the same as living outdoors) is going for 400k, something is definitely going on.

fago · 02-03-2021 10:28am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Are house prices increasing though?

Anyone with skin in the game says yes, but the CSO says no, based on the property price register.

We're seeing some stupid behaviour the last few months, but I doubt its widespread.

What I found interesting in the 2020 report is that 2nd hand places were basically flat (.2%), and the growth was being held up by new houses (2%).
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexdecember2020/newandexistingdwellings/

So, it would seem given the general commentary "there's very little supply, it's all mad" for the last Q of 2020 didn't get reflected in the PPR.

On the new homes, some possibilities:
- either the various government schemes have kept the prices artificially up and the lending limits are having less of an impact in new homes.
- people are more interested in higher energy rating/new home and are willing to pay a premium. And renovation costs are horrendous.
- new homes tend to be focused on the starter market at lower price point, and any increases in savings have a more direct impact in terms of a percentage increase

Marius34 · 02-03-2021 10:35am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Are house prices increasing though?

Anyone with skin in the game says yes, but the CSO says no, based on the property price register.

We're seeing some stupid behaviour the last few months, but I doubt its widespread.

What you think yourself to which direction currently price are moving?

I have posted for previous 4 months, some stats extracted from PPR row data, about the start of the price increase. It's well correlated with delayed results from CSO. There are upwards Trends from around October/November on sold properties, thus that would be from around July/August for people bidding on properties.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 10:42am

fago wrote: »

What I found interesting in the 2020 report is that 2nd hand places were basically flat (.2%), and the growth was being held up by new houses (2%).
https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexdecember2020/newandexistingdwellings/

So, it would seem given the general commentary "there's very little supply, it's all mad" for the last Q of 2020 didn't get reflected in the PPR.

On the new homes, some possibilities:
- either the various government schemes have kept the prices artificially up and the lending limits are having less of an impact in new homes.
- people are more interested in higher energy rating/new home and are willing to pay a premium. And renovation costs are horrendous.
- new homes tend to be focused on the starter market at lower price point, and any increases in savings have a more direct impact in terms of a percentage increase

Back in September 2020, the Irish Independent reported:

“It has emerged that a record four out 10 homes bought in July were accounted for by a combination of the State and cuckoo funds, institutional investors that buy to rent out the properties.”

Given that DCC believes it costs a minimum of €400k+ to just build a standard 3 bed semi (excl. land costs etc), they’re obviously paying well over the odds and probably driving up the “official” published price of what new build homes are really selling for.

What’s even more ridiculous is that Cairn Homes average selling price last year was c. €350k and Glenveagh’s average selling price was c. €311k, so the DCC figures are off the charts given the actual selling prices of the big developers.

Link to free to read article in Irish Independent here: https://independent.ie/business/personal-finance/home-prices-fall-as-state-and-cuckoos-swoop-on-market-39538530.html

Padre_Pio · 02-03-2021 10:45am

Marius34 wrote: »

What you think yourself to which direction currently price are moving?

Going up, after going down for the last while.
I'm not saying everything is rosey, but it's not the boom again.

I think there's a lot of people who are dead set on buying, lockdown or no, and are prepared to pay a premium just to get a deal done.

We're seeing these exceptions and applying them to the market as a whole

Marius34 · 02-03-2021 10:59am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Going up, after going down for the last while.
I'm not saying everything is rosey, but it's not the boom again.

I think there's a lot of people who are dead set on buying, lockdown or no, and are prepared to pay a premium just to get a deal done.

We're seeing these exceptions and applying them to the market as a whole

Yes, I think same that it's not the same boom as of Tigers times again.
It's difficult to say currently if its good or bad time to buy. But I understand why people are frustrated, and not willing to wait for end of lockdown. We definitely can't tell if there will be any better situation anytime soon.

Padre_Pio · 02-03-2021 11:01am

Marius34 wrote: »

Yes, I think same that it's not a boom again this time.
It's difficult to say currently if its good or bad time to buy. But I understand why people are frustrated, and not willing to wait for end of lockdown. We definitely can't tell if there will be any better situation anytime soon.

I don't think it's ever possible to say this, at least not for the last 15 years.
In 2008, people we still betting that things were only going up, and in 2012, the bottom of the market, you'd never know if it was going to keep falling.
The market was meant to crash last year and it's as hot as ever. Who knows if this year, or next year, or the year after will be the peak.

The property market in this country has been f*cked for at least the last 20 years. If you got a good deal, it's more accident than design.

Marius34 · 02-03-2021 11:16am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I don't think it's ever possible to say this, at least not for the last 15 years.
Even in 2012, the bottom of the market, you'd never know if it was going to keep falling.

The property market in this country has been f*cked for at least the last 20 years. If you got a good deal, it's more accident than design.

It would have been difficult to tell in 2012 that it has reached the lowest point. But it was fairly clear to me that Property Market was in bubble back in 2007, and it became fairly clear the direction of the price in the beginning of 2008 (I'm not saying that it was expected such a massive crash).

I agree that Property market is very unstable in Ireland. But I think there is a hope for some stability.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 11:23am

Marius34 wrote: »

It would have been difficult to tell in 2012 that it has reached the lowest point. But it was fairly clear to me that Property Market was in bubble back in 2007, and it became fairly clear the direction of the price in the beginning of 2008 (I'm not saying that it was expected such a massive crash).

I agree that Property market is very unstable in Ireland. But I think there is a hope for some stability.

I think anyone who had their eye on the ball in 2012 could have spotted that the government was about to inflate the market with two pieces of legislation.

1. They introduced the CGT tax reliefs in 2012 to allow investors to buy up houses and not pay any CGT tax if they held onto them for 7 years. That was to increase demand and reduce supply entering the market for the next 7 years.

2. They introduced various pieces of legislation to encourage both REITs and vulture funds into the market. This was to soak up all the excess supply.

Worked wonders as we saw. Unfortunately both these groups are now in the market to sell which will have the opposite impact on prices as they exit the market IMO

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 11:31am

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Going up, after going down for the last while.
I'm not saying everything is rosey, but it's not the boom again.

I think there's a lot of people who are dead set on buying, lockdown or no, and are prepared to pay a premium just to get a deal done.

We're seeing these exceptions and applying them to the market as a whole

one thing is for sure, the cb rules have been important on keeping a lid on prices, in reality prices in the recovered markets have been relatively stagnant over the past 3-4 years.

cnocbui · 02-03-2021 11:35am

PropQueries wrote: »

I think anyone who had their eye on the ball in 2012 could have spotted that the government was about to inflate the market with two pieces of legislation.

1. They introduced the CGT tax reliefs in 2012 to allow investors to buy up houses and not pay any CGT tax if they held onto them for 7 years. That was to increase demand and reduce supply entering the market for the next 7 years.

2. They introduced various pieces of legislation to encourage both REITs and vulture funds into the market. This was to soak up all the excess supply.

Worked wonders as we saw. Unfortunately both these groups are now in the market to sell which will have the opposite impact on prices as they exit the market IMO

You have an absolute gift for confirmation bias. As I have pointed out before, other major OECD countries are all experiencing and expecting property price rises due to COVID as a motivating factor, to a large part. Arguing that Ireland's property prices are going to go against the trend is naive. Australia's property prices just went up something like 3.4% in a month. Canada's market is boiling. NZ's is doing a charge of the light brigade. Covid has caused increased demand for ownership vs renting and for larger properties and a noticeable shift away from cities. Supply hasn't caught up.

Marius34 · 02-03-2021 11:43am

cnocbui wrote: »

You have an absolute gift for confirmation bias. As I have pointed out before, other major OECD countries are all experiencing and expecting property price rises due to COVID as a motivating factor, to a large part. Arguing that Ireland's property prices are going to go against the trend is naive. Australia's property rices just went up something like 3.4% in a month. Canada's market is boiling. NZ's is doing a charge of the light brigade. Covid has caused increased demand for ownership vs renting and for larger properties and a noticeable shift away from cities. Supply hasn't caught up.

Not only larger. But in general there is increase needs for living space. 4-6 people without kids sharing a house may have a problem now while working from home.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 11:47am

Marius34 wrote: »

Not only larger. But in general there is increase needs for living space. 4-6 people without kids sharing a house may have a problem now while working from home.

Excellent point and if you’re right, property prices in the city will collapse.

Before you had 4 singles sharing a house at 500 each a month. Now, according to your theory, you would have two people, so unless they’re willing to pay double their existing rent, rents must drop.

If rents in the city drop, does that have no impact on property prices in the city?

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 11:49am

In the interests of balance on the whole WFH thing,

the Goldman Sachs CEO says its an aberration and not the new normal for them at least

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/goldman-sachs-ceo-solomon-calls-working-from-home-an-aberration-.html

“I do think for a business like ours which is an innovative, collaborative apprenticeship culture, this is not ideal for us and it’s not a new normal,” Solomon said.

“It’s an aberration that we’re going to correct as quickly as possible,” he added.

Solomon said he was particularly focused on ensuring that the next cohort of young workers to join Goldman Sachs this coming summer didn’t start working at the firm remotely, as he believed they could miss out on “direct contact” and “direct mentorship.”

Bojo tends to agree

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/27/coronavirus-boris-johnson-workers-will-return-to-offices-in-a-few-short-months

“I know that some people may imagine that all conferences are going be like this, held over Zoom, Teams or what have you and we’ve got to prepare for a new age in which people don’t move around, do things remotely, they don’t commute any more,” he said.

“I don’t believe it. Not for a moment. In a few short months, if all goes to plan, we in the UK are going to be reopening our economy. And then, believe me, the British people will be consumed once again with their desire for the genuine face-to-face meeting that makes all the difference to the deal or whatever it is.”

MacronvFrugals · 02-03-2021 11:51am

Cyrus wrote: »

In the interests of balance on the whole WFH thing,

the Goldman Sachs CEO says its an aberration and not the new normal for them at least

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/goldman-sachs-ceo-solomon-calls-working-from-home-an-aberration-.html

This was posted last week

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 11:59am

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

This was posted last week

sorry, i see it didnt get much notice.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 12:04pm

Cyrus wrote: »

In the interests of balance on the whole WFH thing,

the Goldman Sachs CEO says its an aberration and not the new normal for them at least

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/goldman-sachs-ceo-solomon-calls-working-from-home-an-aberration-.html

Bojo tends to agree

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/27/coronavirus-boris-johnson-workers-will-return-to-offices-in-a-few-short-months

I think governments are genuinely worried about the impact of WFH on city center retail, cafe etc. jobs. And rightly so.

But I don’t believe they can force companies to bring office workers back full time when both companies and employees have already embraced this new normal.

awec · 02-03-2021 12:08pm

PropQueries wrote: »

I think governments are genuinely worried about the impact of WFH on city center retail, cafe etc. jobs. And rightly so.

But I don’t believe they can force companies to bring office workers back full time when both companies and employees have already embraced this new normal.

They won't need to force anyone.

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 12:08pm

PropQueries wrote: »

But I don’t believe they can force companies to bring office workers back full time when both companies and employees have already embraced this new normal.

i didnt see any one mention companies being forced?

and calling what we have right now a new normal is a bit bizarre, if we have the same level of WFH in a years time then maybe its a new normal but i would wager we wont see that.

Marius34 · 02-03-2021 12:11pm

PropQueries wrote: »

Excellent point and if you’re right, property prices in the city will collapse.

Before you had 4 singles sharing a house at 500 each a month. Now, according to your theory, you would have two people, so unless they’re willing to pay double their existing rent, rents must drop.

If rents in the city drop, does that have no impact on property prices in the city?

It depends on different situation.
If there were 4 single professionals. Now one of them may move out to rent one bed apartment, able to pay more for rent. Other 3 may pay now 666 Eur each.
Same people now have demands for 2 properties.

It all depends on different situation, you can not concentrate on those case, but you need to look overall picture on Demands/Supplies.
And WFH change will impact only portion of people once we get out of the lockdowns.

fliball123 · 02-03-2021 12:18pm

PropQueries wrote: »

I think governments are genuinely worried about the impact of WFH on city center retail, cafe etc. jobs. And rightly so.

But I don’t believe they can force companies to bring office workers back full time when both companies and employees have already embraced this new normal.

I seen conflicting reports I believe Varadkar is looking to incentivise working from home as it will reduce traffic, pollution and also give people a bit more work/life balance and then other sectors talking about about Dublin city center will lose a lot of business. IMO good enough for them it will be great not to have to go into Dublin city center if you dont need to it might force them into free parking and changing the nature of Dubin city center

PommieBast · 02-03-2021 12:23pm

PropQueries wrote: »

I think governments are genuinely worried about the impact of WFH on city center retail, cafe etc. jobs. And rightly so.

Given the tightness of the Irish lockdown (see various threads related to hospitality pubs) and the proposals to make work-from-home a legal right, I have doubts about that..

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 12:28pm

According to the Irish Independent "Century-old building firm G&T Crampton calls in a liquidator".

"G&T Crampton, the Dublin building firm famed for more than 100 years for the quality of its construction will seek to appoint a liquidator to two Irish companies at a meeting of creditors on March 12th."

"Houses built by the firm in the first half of the twentieth century continue to command a premium on the market – whether the homes were built for Dublin Corporation in Cabra or for the city’s wealthy elite in Herbert Park, Dublin 4 and Foxrock."

It's newsworthy given the company's history, but I have no idea what this liquidation relates to. But, it doesn't really look like it's due to the current market conditions, so maybe someone in the know can shed some light on the exact reasons?

Link to article in Irish Independent here: https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/century-old-building-firm-g-and-t-crampton-calls-in-a-liquidator-40147469.html

fliball123 · 02-03-2021 12:29pm

PommieBast wrote: »

Given the tightness of the Irish lockdown (see various threads related to hospitality pubs) and the proposals to make work-from-home a legal right, I have doubts about that..

I dont think you can do that as what would happen to professions that you need a physical body to be there, such as a garda or a doctor or a bin man etc..It just wont work. Going forward I can see some companies using it as a way to add an incentive to work for them by letting an employee work from home but I cannot see it becoming a legal right..It may even become a Benefit in Kind that may need to be taxed like a company car.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 12:35pm

fliball123 wrote: »

I dont think you can do that as what would happen to professions that you need a physical body to be there, such as a garda or a doctor or a bin man etc..It just wont work. Going forward I can see some companies using it as a way to add an incentive to work for them by letting an employee work from home but I cannot see it becoming a legal right..It may even become a Benefit in Kind that may need to be taxed like a company car.

With the Greens in power, if encouraging WFH isn't top of the government agenda, given its obvious environmental positives, we would then have to assume that the Greens were only brought in as cover to increase taxes on all our heating and travel costs i.e. back-door tax increases dressed up as "protecting the environment" IMO

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 12:36pm

PommieBast wrote: »

Given the tightness of the Irish lockdown (see various threads related to hospitality pubs) and the proposals to make work-from-home a legal right, I have doubts about that..

proposal to make requesting to work from home a legal right, its an important distinction.

awec · 02-03-2021 12:41pm

PropQueries wrote: »

With the Greens in power, if encouraging WFH isn't top of the government agenda, given its obvious environmental positives, we would then have to assume that the Greens were only brought in as cover to increase taxes on all our heating and travel costs i.e. back-door tax increases dressed up as "protecting the environment" IMO

The Greens are the minor party in government, why would any of their policies be top of the government agenda? :rolleyes:

HansKroenke · 02-03-2021 12:41pm

Cyrus wrote: »

In the interests of balance on the whole WFH thing,

the Goldman Sachs CEO says its an aberration and not the new normal for them at least

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/25/goldman-sachs-ceo-solomon-calls-working-from-home-an-aberration-.html

Bojo tends to agree

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/27/coronavirus-boris-johnson-workers-will-return-to-offices-in-a-few-short-months

I think there are wealthy persons connected to the tory government and GS in whose financial interest it would be to have the offices filled with worker bees. There is also in my observation a link between the age of the person and the statement that the office is not dead; generally it is baby boomers. However, in my close group of friends, all in our early 30s, we are unanimous in our view that WFH is going to be essential going forward, with the extent of the hybrid model the only divergence in our own needs (that being said, it seems to be more like 1/2 days in the office per week which is preferred rather than 3/4 days in the office for those that would like to go back in).

After a year of WFH, with no strong push to get people back in until post-winter 2021, I have already adapted my living situation to the new normal which consists of predominantly WFH. We have moved out of Dublin to rent by the sea, with a lot more space (still renting), so I am now a lot more keen to avoid going into the office when the chance presents itself again. Life can't be put on hold forever and after a year of WFH, people must be allowed to start changing their living situation to adapt to this new scenario.

I've said it before possibly in this thread, but having gone into the office three times per week from June to October last year, I realise that people who get nostalgic for the office will lose their interest in returning once they start going in again. The WFH situation right now might feel draining but that is because there is no way to switch off with the social restrictions imposed on every day life. Once you can start going to cafes, bars, restaurants, meeting people, travelling, shopping etc. it will be far easier to switch off. As well, this WFH situation was sprung upon us with little time for people to get a proper desk, move to a bigger apartment that isn't within close proximity to the office etc., but when people have a chance to plan their next move they will be bale to look for the extra room for a home office which will make it a lot easier.

Some of the things that I had forgotten about during WFH March - June last year, that I really could do without in my working life; the commute; sitting at a desk in an office to do work with a feeling of being monitored and not having little home comforts nearby like your own kitchen and bathroom, pets, TV for those 10/15 minute breaks; having less time with your partner (and kids if you have them); being distracted a lot more with colleagues looking to chat or just generally making noise in the office and hogging the microwave or coffee machine. The novelty of going back to the office will grow thin for a lot of people who think they want to go back now, I am certain of this.

Cyrus · 02-03-2021 12:46pm

HansKroenke wrote: »

However, in my generation of those in our 30s, we are unanimous in our view that WFH is going to be essential going forward

really? speak for yourself by all means but speaking unanimously for people in their 30s is beyond presumptuous.

HansKroenke · 02-03-2021 12:48pm

Cyrus wrote: »

really? speak for yourself by all means but speaking unanimously for people in their 30s is beyond presumptuous.

I meant to phrase that as in my close group of friends, all in our 30s.

awec · 02-03-2021 12:48pm

HansKroenke wrote: »

I think there are wealthy persons connected to the tory government and GS in whose financial interest it would be to have the offices filled with worker bees. There is also in my observation a link between the age of the person and the statement that the office is not dead; generally it is baby boomers. However, in my generation of those in our 30s, we are unanimous in our view that WFH is going to be essential going forward, with the extent of the hybrid model the only divergence in our own needs (that being said, it seems to be more like 1/2 days in the office per week which is preferred rather than 3/4 days in the office for those that would like to go back in).

After a year of WFH, with no strong push to get people back in until post-winter 2021, I have already adapted my living situation to the new normal which consists of predominantly WFH. We have moved out of Dublin to rent by the sea, with a lot more space (still renting), so I am now a lot more keen to avoid going into the office when the chance presents itself again. Life can't be put on hold forever and after a year of WFH, people must be allowed to start changing their living situation to adapt to this new scenario.

I've said it before possibly in this thread, but having gone into the office three times per week from June to October last year, I realise that people who get nostalgic for the office will lose their interest in returning once they start going in again. The WFH situation right now might feel draining but that is because there is no way to switch off with the social restrictions imposed on every day life. Once you can start going to cafes, bars, restaurants, meeting people, travelling, shopping etc. it will be far easier to switch off. As well, this WFH situation was sprung upon us with little time for people to get a proper desk, move to a bigger apartment that isn't within close proximity to the office etc., but when people have a chance to plan their next move they will be bale to look for the extra room for a home office which will make it a lot easier.

Some of the things that I had forgotten about during WFH March - June last year, that I really could do without in my working life; the commute; sitting at a desk in an office to do work with a feeling of being monitored and not having little home comforts nearby like your own kitchen and bathroom, pets, TV for those 10/15 minute breaks; having less time with your partner (and kids if you have them); being distracted a lot more with colleagues looking to chat or just generally making noise in the office and hogging the microwave or coffee machine. The novelty of going back to the office will grow thin for a lot of people who think they want to go back now, I am certain of this.

Whether the novelty wears off or not is of no real relevance, it is not like employees get to decide whatever they want based on their own whims. It is always going to be a balance between the needs of the employer and the needs of the employee.

It is why the hybrid approach is so popular, it is a compromise and it suits both.

There are a few getting very far ahead of themselves in their excitement to declare that offices are dead.

HansKroenke · 02-03-2021 12:50pm

awec wrote: »

Whether the novelty wears off or not is of no real relevance, it is not like employees get to decide whatever they want based on their own whims.

I wouldn't be so sure that it is on the whims of employees. The companies which offer more attractive WFH packages will attract employees from the more rigid environments.

And of course, it is government policy to push WFH so it has a tidal wave of support which means the choice for companies will be to embrace it or lose employees. To not accept that is to the detriment of managers.

awec · 02-03-2021 12:52pm

HansKroenke wrote: »

I wouldn't be so sure that it is on the whims of employees. The companies which offer more attractive WFH packages will attract employees from the more rigid environments.

And of course, it is government policy to push WFH so it is a tidal wave of support which means the choice for companies will be to embrace it or lose employees. To not accept that is to the detriment of managers.

If all else is equal, yes, but you are being overly simplistic.

WFH will absolutely grow as a result of this, people will work from home more often. Those that think there's going to be a sudden and mass transition to fully remote work are going to be disappointed.

HansKroenke · 02-03-2021 12:54pm

awec wrote: »

If all else is equal, yes, but you are being overly simplistic.

WFH will absolutely grow as a result of this, people will work from home more often. Those that think there's going to be a sudden and mass transition to fully remote work are going to be disappointed.

That's what we have had for a year now and it is going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

PropQueries · 02-03-2021 12:56pm

awec wrote: »

Whether the novelty wears off or not is of no real relevance, it is not like employees get to decide whatever they want based on their own whims. It is always going to be a balance between the needs of the employer and the needs of the employee.

It is why the hybrid approach is so popular, it is a compromise and it suits both.

There are a few getting very far ahead of themselves in their excitement to declare that offices are dead.

Most companies don't yet know that the "hybrid" approach will work in real life and are just "hoping".

It can't work. How can employees in different teams "collaborate" if one team is out Thursday and Friday and the other team is out Monday and Tuesday.

Many companies will quickly realise it's either fully WFH or fully in the office.

A mix of both is absolute nonsense thinking IMO.

fliball123 · 02-03-2021 12:57pm

HansKroenke wrote: »

That's what we have had for a year now and it is going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

its not so do you think teachers are going to work from home in future or specialists within the HSE who have been doing zoom calls..It cant work for everyone . A one size fits all is not going to work with working from home. Out of my family members myself and a brother of mine so 2 out of 10 are allowed to work from home after lockdown the other 8 have to go back in to work. I can hazard a guess there will be a lot of people like that.

2021 Irish Property Market chat - *mod warnings post 1*

Comments

2021 Irish Property Market chat - mod warnings post 1