Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

31-10-2020 3:53pm

Wombatman wrote: »

If the story was about a Shinner, the FG flunkies on here would have The Village on par with the Washington Post.

They'd have been down to the nearest shop at the crack of dawn for a copy and have it framed on the mantelpiece.

31-10-2020 3:53pm

Didn't know what to make of all this when it first came out last night, thought it was just a mountain being made out of a molehill to be honest but given all the details slowly being filled in since then, it looks bad, very bad. Being accused of breaking the Official Secrets Act and by extension the Corruption Act is not a good look.

There is no amount of "But what about Sinn Fein!?" or "Conspiracy theory fake news!" that can cover for this or shake it off. I see JingleJangle and Pintman are already manning the defences for FG HQ but it's beyond laughable at this stage. Varadkar has form for making stupid and reckless decisions and believing he would do something like this does not take a serious stretch of the imagination. However thinking this is all a conspiracy theory takes a lot more naivety and arrogance to believe than simply believing he would do something like this.

I've said it more than a few times in the last few years but FG made a massive mistake picking Varadkar over Coveney. The party membership voted 2 to 1 in favour of Coveney for exactly this reason. Leo was too arrogant and slick in the eyes of the rank and file. Leo Ahern was a jibe that kept getting thrown around back in 2016/17 because of his media appearances. Always thought that jibe was a bit childish but Leo's performance over the last 3 years has been a mess that can only be compared to Bertie or Haughey.

FG will survive this, but if this turns out to be true then Leo will go. He'll have no choice. I've a feeling if there was to be another leadership contest between himself and Coveney right now it wouldn't even be close for Leo. Sinn Fein being the largest party by vote count last GE should have been the wake up call for FG and to some extent FF.

Gregor Samsa · 31-10-2020 3:57pm

Ok, so I can understand how they got the screenshots of the group chat, if Bowes was in the group.

But how did they get a screenshot of Maitiú Ó Tuathail‘s phone - taken on the day Varadkar asked for his address?

Peter Flynt · 31-10-2020 3:59pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Ok, so I can understand how they got the screenshots of the group chat, if Bowes was in the group.

But how did they get a screenshot of Maitiú Ó Tuathail‘s phone - taken on the day Varadkar asked for his address?

Ó Tuathail apparently posted a pic of his own phone to Chay Bowes - the whistleblower.

Baggly · 31-10-2020 4:00pm

Risteard81 wrote: »

It's really not. I've stated it multiple times about that subhuman.

Mod

Stay out of this thread.

Plumbthedepths · 31-10-2020 4:00pm

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

No my friend. I'm not. Watch this one fizzle out. Nothing to see here folks. Just a load of manufactured outrage over a a load of nonsense.

The shinners will try and run with it, but no one gives a sh1te.

You made a similar prediction about Maria Bailey, how did that work out?

_Kaiser_ · 31-10-2020 4:01pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Ok, so I can understand how they got the screenshots of the group chat, if Bowes was in the group.

But how did they get a screenshot of Maitiú Ó Tuathail‘s phone - taken on the day Varadkar asked for his address?

My read of it was he sent it as proof of his connection to Leo?

Floppybits · 31-10-2020 4:01pm

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Ó Tuathail apparently posted a pic of his own phone to Chay Bowes - the whistleblower.

Those damn whistleblowers no wonder they are not liked and the state tries to destroy them every chance they get

RoryMac · 31-10-2020 4:02pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Ok, so I can understand how they got the screenshots of the group chat, if Bowes was in the group.

But how did they get a screenshot of Maitiú Ó Tuathail‘s phone - taken on the day Varadkar asked for his address?

The believe the thinking is that O Tuathail sent the screen shot to Bowes to back up validity of the document

Kh1993 · 31-10-2020 4:02pm

O’Tuathail’s role is interesting here. He’s cultivated quite the celebrity doctor figure on national TV. Completely capitalised on the fear during the pandemic.

Peter Flynt · 31-10-2020 4:03pm

Floppybits wrote: »

Those damn whistleblowers no wonder they are not liked and the state tries to destroy them every chance they get

There are plenty in FF and indeed FG who want rid of Varadkar.

Coveney will be Taoiseach in December 2022.

Baggly · 31-10-2020 4:03pm

Mod

The posting in this thread needs to come up a level in standard. Correction....at least a level.

Cards and bans await any who choose not to do so.

Gregor Samsa · 31-10-2020 4:06pm

RoryMac wrote: »

The believe the thinking is that O Tuathail sent the screen shot to Bowes to back up validity of the document

If true, it seems we can’t even do corruption right in this country. Has no one heard of covering their tracks?

antimatterx · 31-10-2020 4:10pm

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There are plenty in FF and indeed FG who want rid of Varadkar.

Coveney will be Taoiseach in December 2022.

Who in FG?

Dempo1 · 31-10-2020 4:10pm

There's clearly a complete main stream media blackout on this story, absolutely no other outlet mentioning it. I've never hesrd of the publication so took a peak at their Alledged website, mother of God, it's dreadful and to be honest I'm finding it difficult to take any of this seriously.

wirelessdude01 · 31-10-2020 4:11pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

There's clearly a complete main stream media blackout on this story, absolutely no other outlet mentioning it. I've never hesrd of the publication so took a peak at their Alledged website, mother of God, it's dreadful and to be honest I'm finding it difficult to take any of this seriously.

Independent.ie and examiner.ie are reporting on it.

Irish Times are sticking out like a sore thumb for not having anything about it.

Plumbthedepths · 31-10-2020 4:12pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

There's clearly a complete main stream media blackout on this story, absolutely no other outlet mentioning it. I've never hesrd of the publication so took a peak at their Alledged website, mother of God, it's dreadful and to be honest I'm finding it difficult to take any of this seriously.

I posted a link to the Indo article, RTE is carrying it.

s1ippy · 31-10-2020 4:12pm

RTÉ claimed that they couldn't establish the veracity of the story.

I mean, surely the point of them is to do that investigative work.

s1ippy · 31-10-2020 4:13pm

Hmm.

Plumbthedepths · 31-10-2020 4:13pm

s1ippy wrote: »

RTÉ claimed that they couldn't establish the veracity of the story.

I mean, surely the point of them is to do that investigative work.

We need to increase the licence fee to enable their sterling journalistic endeavours.

Dempo1 · 31-10-2020 4:15pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I posted a link to the Indo article, RTE is carrying it.

Cool, I missed that, thanks

elperello · 31-10-2020 4:15pm

Examiner also.

Early days.

SortingYouOut · 31-10-2020 4:16pm

NickNickleby wrote: »

hahahaha, hilarious, seriously.

wait a minute... your original post said ".......gay GP......., yet when I quote it, the 'gay' is missing. Are you editing while I'm replying??

anyway, THIS is what I'm responding to:
What's him being a gay GP have anything to do with it?

My first thought was "who da F are you calling a GP?"

That isn't edited at all, you may be thinking of the person I was responding to. I acted shocked at the GP mention only in jest as it's obvious the gay part was the shocker (to the poster) in their post.

Bubbaclaus · 31-10-2020 4:17pm

s1ippy wrote: »

RTÉ claimed that they couldn't establish the veracity of the story.

I mean, surely the point of them is to do that investigative work.

In the space of a few hours on a Saturday morning, when the entire story is based on a few screenshots?

Skeetur · 31-10-2020 4:18pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Independent.ie and examiner.ie are reporting on it.

Irish Times are sticking out like a sore thumb for not having anything about it.

The indo are reporting on the statements from SF and SDs demanding Leo respond to the article and mentioning the article as the reason for the statements. Which is all anyone is doing.

awec · 31-10-2020 4:18pm

The Indo are carrying the fact that other parties have picked up on it and are asking Varadkar to comment.

I am not aware of any other media covering the story itself.

gozunda · 31-10-2020 4:18pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

There's clearly a complete main stream media blackout on this story, absolutely no other outlet mentioning it. I've never hesrd of the publication so took a peak at their Alledged website, mother of God, it's dreadful and to be honest I'm finding it difficult to take any of this seriously.

Still no idea how they managed to get a snap shot of 'Leo's' phone ...

Rodney Bathgate · 31-10-2020 4:18pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

There's clearly a complete main stream media blackout on this story, absolutely no other outlet mentioning it. I've never hesrd of the publication so took a peak at their Alledged website, mother of God, it's dreadful and to be honest I'm finding it difficult to take any of this seriously.

Have you actually gone looking for the story? Lead article on the independent website for example.

Plumbthedepths · 31-10-2020 4:19pm

Dempo1 wrote: »

Cool, I missed that, thanks

Just to clarify I heard it on the radio, assumed it was RTE. Wife's car she usually has it on RTE.

noodler · 31-10-2020 4:23pm

Can anyone understand his motivation for doing this?

The contract terms would have applied, as I understand it, to GPs in the IMO or the NAGP and it was already set.

The contract by the way gives GPs about 50/60m increases in fees per year until 2023 (they they would argue is restoration).

Is it just to keep a mate in the know? Poor form and he'll be facing trouble for it but no financial motivation?

Maybe it was leaked so that all GP groups got advanced notice of the "pay restoration" and more positive gov headlines?

James Brown · 31-10-2020 4:23pm

Someone breaks the story, if its meaty enough others will do follow up. Thats how it works. They don't all release an 'exclusive' on the same day.

If true he has to go. Not naive enough to think he'd get charged.
If true he did a mate a favour using his position and contrary to his role as a representative of the tax paying public

s1ippy · 31-10-2020 4:23pm

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1322536910972223488?s=20

This is all I've seen from RTÉ. Not impressed.

Dempo1 · 31-10-2020 4:25pm

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Have you actually gone looking for the story? Lead article on the independent website for example.

I was since 2pm actually, as it happens I had not seen a single mention of it but as I posted, it started to appear. First I heard was 1.45 while listening to Katie Hannon show

olestoepoke · 31-10-2020 4:25pm

Was he caught taking a big brown envelope?

James Brown · 31-10-2020 4:27pm

olestoepoke wrote: »

Was he caught taking a big brown envelope?

Looks like giving privileged insider information to help a mate. Cronyism.

I Am The Law · 31-10-2020 4:27pm

Archeron wrote: »

There is no way that's Leos handwriting. When is the last time anybody could read something a doctor wrote by hand?

He never really worked as a doctor.

Dempo1 · 31-10-2020 4:27pm

s1ippy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1322536910972223488?s=20

This is all I've seen from RTÉ. Not impressed.

Yes, was watching myself, RTE being really really careful, Leo apparently seeking legal advice before releasing a statement, I doubt somehow he'll be consulting his former AG, apparently they've fallen out, something about golf I believe

JohnnyFlash · 31-10-2020 4:29pm

s1ippy wrote: »

https://twitter.com/caulmick/status/1322536910972223488?s=20

This is all I've seen from RTÉ. Not impressed.

That Mick Caul lad is a crank. Spends his entire day on Twitter ranting and raving. Lot of anger there.

s1ippy · 31-10-2020 4:29pm

It's taking a long time for him to respond. Indicates the accusations are perhaps not as baseless as some here would like to suggest!

sdanseo · 31-10-2020 4:29pm

OK, so TLDR for those confused - I had to do some research to figure this out.

The allegation is that:
Leo gave an unfinished copy of an agreement between the HSE and IMO to a friend in the NAGP.
Why are the IMO and NAGP rival organizations? One represents doctors, one represents doctors who are GPs. Apparently, they are both also de facto unions representing their members' interests and so there would be a conflict of interest for one to know information about an agreement between the other and the HSE, before it was made public.
The law says confidential information cannot be shared for personal gain or the personal gain of others.
What's not clear is whether this would have constituted personal gain, but it probably figures that it did, since it could have influenced contractual negotiations on doctors' remuneration by the state.

However, on the flip side, we also have:
screenshots of someone claiming to be Matt O'Toole being asked for his address by someone claiming to be Leo. There are two different versions of this same screenshot - which would lend itself to the question, that if it was doctored (lol) once, was it fake to begin with?
a picture of the document with what is alleged to be Leo's writing on a table allegedly sent by Matt O'Toole
a story published by an outlet which can only be described as a little unhinged in its bias against the establishment if you look back through its tweets. It leans very left, very SF. Paddy Cosgrave likely has wet dreams over their articles, it would be in their interest to frame Leo.

Edit: handwriting comparison. I would say it does look like his writing.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eii2HsuXgAgCK_I?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElqnF2-WoAENanQ?format=jpg&name=large

A lot to digest. Interesting to see what Leo says.

tipptom · 31-10-2020 4:33pm

Baggly wrote: »

Mod

The posting in this thread needs to come up a level in standard. Correction....at least a level.

Cards and bans await any who choose not to do so.

Pintmanpaddylosty thanked this, LOLZ

olestoepoke · 31-10-2020 4:33pm

Get the popcorn ready, this is gonna be good.

s1ippy · 31-10-2020 4:34pm

They've actually updated the article and seem to be indicating overtly now that Chay Bowes is the whistleblower.

https://villagemagazine.ie/varadkar-leaks-confidential-document/

wowy · 31-10-2020 4:35pm

Mr.S wrote: »

Can you explain? I've only seen the one screenshot from the article about the address.

https://twitter.com/dmorgandub/status/1322505536844300288?s=19

Peter Flynt · 31-10-2020 4:35pm

sdanseo wrote: »

OK, so TLDR for those confused - I had to do some research to figure this out.

The allegation is that:
Leo gave an unfinished copy of an agreement between the HSE and IMO to a friend in the NAGP.
Why are the IMO and NAGP rival organizations? One represents doctors, one represents doctors who are GPs. Apparently, they are both also de facto unions representing their members' interests and so there would be a conflict of interest for one to know information about an agreement between the other and the HSE, before it was made public.
The law says confidential information cannot be shared for personal gain or the personal gain of others.

The law states that confidential information cannot be sent. Period.
Personal gain is irrelevant.

On the IMO and the NAGP it seems to me that these are rival unions. You might think that unions representing the same set of workers work in tandem for the common good but you'd be wrong. Often unions representing the same workplace may work together but they have no problem undercutting each other as often happens in the teaching unions.

The impression I get is that O'Tuathail & others associated with the NAGP are trying to nick members off the more established IMO. Certainly the NAGP were angered many years ago at being left out of talks between govt and IMO. Perhaps Varadkar was illegally supplying information to NAGP via O'Tauthail?

Skeetur · 31-10-2020 4:36pm

sdanseo wrote: »

OK, so TLDR for those confused - I had to do some research to figure this out.

The allegation is that:
Leo gave an unfinished copy of an agreement between the HSE and IMO to a friend in the NAGP.
Why are the IMO and NAGP rival organizations? One represents doctors, one represents doctors who are GPs. Apparently, they are both also de facto unions representing their members' interests and so there would be a conflict of interest for one to know information about an agreement between the other and the HSE, before it was made public.
The law says confidential information cannot be shared for personal gain or the personal gain of others.
What's not clear is whether this would have constituted personal gain, but it probably figures that it did, since it could have influenced contractual negotiations on doctors' remuneration by the state.

However, on the flip side, we also have:
screenshots of someone claiming to be Matt O'Toole being asked for his address by someone claiming to be Leo. There are two different versions of this same screenshot - which would lend itself to the question, that if it was doctored (lol) once, was it fake to begin with?
a picture of the document with what is alleged to be Leo's writing on a table allegedly sent by Matt O'Toole
a story published by an outlet which can only be described as a little unhinged in its bias against the establishment if you look back through its tweets. It leans very left, very SF. Paddy Cosgrave likely has wet dreams over their articles, it would be in their interest to frame Leo.

A lot to digest. Interesting to see what Leo says.

According to the article the contract was too late to benefit the NAGP which is why they talked about "stealing their thunder" by making the terms known. It says the NAGP also dissolved 3 months later. So there can't have been much benefit.

bennyl10 · 31-10-2020 4:36pm

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1322562575742226433?s=21

ceegee · 31-10-2020 4:36pm

Mr.S wrote: »

Can you explain? I've only seen the one screenshot from the article about the address.

He's coming out with a statement same day as the article - pretty quick. Even if he's flat out denying, he'll still need to get advice, have his statement drafted, reviewed, edited etc.

The article has the address redacted except for Dublin 8, The Village's tweet has it redacted except for Clonskeagh (which isn't D8)

sdanseo · 31-10-2020 4:37pm

Mr.S wrote: »

Can you explain? I've only seen the one screenshot from the article about the address.

Can't find the tweet I saw.. scrolling for ages. But there was a version of the below that instead of CLonskeagh, said Dublin 8 at the end after the redaction.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElqO9bOXUAAEuIo?format=jpg&name=large

Peter Flynt · 31-10-2020 4:37pm

bennyl10 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1322562575742226433?s=21

He'll do SFA.
Like Bertie threatening legal action after Mahon Tribunal

Leo Varadkar story in The Village??? - Mod Notes and banned Users in OP updated 16/05

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