Mother and babies homes information sealed for 30 years

tylercheribini wrote: »

Yea twas a really poorly editorial decision to segue straight to a "I cant get me chocolate digestives" segment.

Claire can be a bit Thick.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Once the historians have done their digging the results could be handed over to a special Garda unit.
Historians are trained to record every detail about every source and cite where each piece of information came from in a clearly annotated footnote so all the Garda unit would need to do is follow the bread crumbs and look at the sources themselves.

Perhaps a special unit within the Gardai could be set up with historians those with forensic skills and legal knowledge. If legislation is needed to enable these investigation so be it.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40209122.html

Fergus Finlay.

Failure to address Mother and Baby Homes scandal will haunt country for years.

There is evidence of children being taken from their mothers, despite these mothers fighting and pleading to keep them, to facilitate the trade and export of babies.

First of all, I hope you’ll forgive me if I say what an appalling report the Mother and Baby Homes Commission produced. I don’t know why they pulled so many punches. I don’t know why they produced a report that was so unworthy of the calibre of people involved.

But from the very first page, it was clear that this report wasn’t going to address fundamental injustices.

That opening few sentences has already contributed to a narrative that is designed to rob survivors of neglect and abuse — and many, including hundreds of babies, who didn’t survive — of the justice they deserve.

A coercive abusive prison, accompanied by indeterminate (and frequently lifelong) emotional and other punishments can never be described as a refuge. And that insult is compounded by the lack of clarity (to put it kindly) throughout the report.

There is huge evidence of false birth certs, to facilitate a trade in babies and the export of babies. There is huge evidence that nuns lied repeatedly about where hundreds of dead babies are buried.

There is vagueness where there ought to be certainty, obfuscation where there ought to be clarity. The whole thing seems to be informed by the central conclusion, baldly stated at the start, and which I’ve quoted above.

And the mealy-mouthed apologies from some religious orders and from the Catholic hierarchy feed further into the narrative.

The report as published enables the narrative. And at its heart — if you can ascribe a heart to it — the narrative is an absolute and scandalous lie.

The Catholic Church ruled us — formed our attitudes, told us what we were allowed to think. And politics was supine in front of the Church — not on its knees but on its belly.

For the Church, control was everything.

And that misogyny was the reason — the only reason — why shame and stigma was locked on to any woman or child who became pregnant without being married.

Sure, some families might have been callous. But in the main, families didn’t turn their backs on their daughters because they wanted to. The valley of the squinting windows, created by a misogynistic Church, forced them to treat their children, and their children’s babies, as outcasts.

The injustice and cruelty with which women and babies were treated — and it was manifest — may not have been enshrined in statute, but it was the unwritten, and sacrosanct, law of the land. A land where politics did a misogynistic Church’s bidding.

I’ve read the government statement, and the “Action Plan” that’s proposed. Behind the gobbledegook, it’s a miserable attempt.

On that basis there might, just might, be a possibility that proper legislation will see the light of day in 2023. Really? A determined minister could do a lot better than that.

n fact, it’s going to be whoever an “interdepartmental group” decides they should be, and they will get whatever that “interdepartmental group” decides they should get.

An interdepartmental group, by definition, is a group of civil servants, who will come together with one primary objective — to protect the interests of their own departments — and not to advance any objective you might have.

You can search for a year and you won’t find a group of civil servants burning with a passion to right the wrongs of the past. Sadly, such civil servants, despite their undoubted merits, don’t exist.

If you make this your personal project, there is a slight chance of justice being delivered. If you don’t, the litany of failure will haunt us all forever.

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Watching a replay of the Seanad today. O'Gorman should be under no illusions that the commission got it very wrong and the report has been rejected.
There is disbelief at some of it's findings. The Dail should be interesting tomorrow.

I think coverage of the M+B debate starts at 12am from the Dail.

Atm Student Nurse pay is being debated.

Oireachtas TV is available throughout Ireland on:

Saorview Channel 22
Virgin Media Channel 207
Sky Channel 517
eir Vision Channel 504
Vodafone Channels 201, 207 (Dáil Éireann) and 208 (Seanad Éireann)

Leaders questions is now finished.

Order of Business for the day is being discussed.

ROG said(I'll add details on this later):

Archive available end of Feb. Not sure what access is permitted.

GDPR heads of bill available end march- early April. This looks like a long drawn out process if Tuam bill is anything to go by.

Redress inter departmental proposals end of April.
Fergus Findlay argued against this

Supports to include:
Enhanced medical card if 6 months spent in homes.
Counselling

Tuam legislation soon?

Memorial location to be discussed with relevant groups and records to be made available at site?

Incorporating story into NUIG curriculum

Scholarship named after Alice Lister

Funchions speech is powerful. As a survivor said "what is the point of this report?". It discredited the survivors testimony.

So many survivors came forward but many others were not able for psychological or other reasons. They must all be disgusted after waiting 5 years. They were forced to relive the horrors for nothing.

Are Leo or Michael here or are they happy to let O'Gorman take the heat?

A few TDs have called for a criminal investigation.

Fergus O'Dowd (FG) really going for it.
The Greens are taking the rap here while the 2 parties with the legacy involvement (FF + FG) are hiding.

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Very good speeches in the Dail today. Some better than others. There are a lot of TDs that want action and there seems to be a lot of anger in the constituencies. Naughton was very knowledgeable on the vaccine trials. He described the babies as 'pin cushions' on account of the injections they got.
O'Gorman knows they are watching him now. All we can do is keep the pressure up by emailing TDs with our thoughts.

Catherine Connolly has put up her speech yesterday
https://twitter.com/catherinegalway/status/1352220893473345536?s=19

It is shocking how uncritical some of the media coverage is. For example, the allegation that the mother and baby homes were racist. Repeated in the press without any balance. Look at the RTÉ story on the issue. One person making these allegations says

"couldn't understand" how the Commission of Investigation reached such a conclusion.

"Even in the first statement it seems like a contradiction in terms; on the one hand to say there was no evidence of discrimination and then to continue on and say race was taken into account in placing children - that's a very confused inconclusive statement," he said.

"I was in Pelletstown during the 1960s and the report says virtually 100% of illegitimate children were adopted. Of the majority of the mixed-race children in Pelletstown, only 48% were adopted. Now if that isn't racism, can somebody explain to me what is racism?"
https://www.rte.ie/news/mother-and-baby-homes/2021/0119/1190616-mother-and-baby-homes-ireland/

What he didn’t mention is that i) the adoption rate was actually 54%, ii) white kids were not adopted at a 100% rate, actually the report says 43% over the long history of the home, iii) we don’t know that the remaining mixed race kids children were not adopted, iv) some of the 'mixed' race had white fathers according to the report, v) there is much evidence in the reports that such babies were not treated worse. How can such a clueless person making such strong allegations not receive any pushback at all?

stockshares wrote: »

ROG seems determined to give control of the Redress to an Inter Departmental Group which means he is ignoring critics of the Report .

He is either incompetent and tone deaf or has no respect for the Survivors or Critics of the report and only concerned with defending the Gov position of delay and cover up.

It will be interesting to see if momentum can be built by Politicians in the Dail to persuade him to change his mind.

He is being told what to do and it will cost his party in the long run. I did send him Finlay's article and reservations about the Inter Departmental Group via email.

An interdepartmental group, by definition, is a group of civil servants, who will come together with one primary objective — to protect the interests of their own departments — and not to advance any objective you might have.

This is Roderic O Gormans full statement yesterday.

https://www.gov.ie/en/speech/2504b-statement-of-roderic-ogorman-td-report-of-commission-of-investigation-into-mother-and-baby-homes-and-certain-related-matters-dail-eireann-20-january/

Introduction
Last week, the Report of the Commission of Investigation into Mother and Baby Homes was published and following this, the Taoiseach, on behalf of the Government, offered our apology and asked for forgiveness for the failings of the Irish State, failings that repeated over decades, and which had the most horrendous consequences for our most vulnerable citizens.

The Report is an enormous piece of work, and it will take time for all that it discloses about what happened in these institutions to be fully understood. Today, Deputies have the opportunity to reflect on the many failings on the part of both the State and individual religious congregations, and most importantly, the devastating impact that these failings had on mothers and children.

In my own contribution, I want to outline in more detail elements of the Governments Action Plan in response to the Report and update the House on progress on key issues like the right of access to personal information and restorative recognition.

In the discussion of the Commission’s Report over the last week, it is clear that survivors have been left disappointed by aspects of the Report, particularly the tone and language used within the Executive Summary. They have cited sections where a strictly legalistic approach is taken to describing the profoundly personal impacts of what happened within the institutions. Sections where the Commission’s conclusion that it could not find evidence of what happened, and where this could be interpreted as a denial of the experiences of survivors.

I understand that disappointment.

As I stated in the Seanad yesterday, when I read the Report, the aspect that had the greatest impact on me was the Chapter on the Confidential Committee. It is the clearest possible account of the suffering of mothers and children. It tells the lived experience of those who spent time in these institutions.

It makes it clear that these women were compelled by circumstances over which they had no control and no choice, to put their children up for adoption.

The words of the Confidential Committee represents the truth of what happened in this institutions over so many years.

Failure by the State
When the Taoiseach made his apology last week, he made it on behalf of the State. Having had the opportunity to read through the Report in its entirety, it illustrates gross dereliction of duty by the Irish State across decades. The State’s failings are unambiguously demonstrated, and this is particularly so because the Report contains that serious concerns were brought to those in power, time and time again, but without action ensuing.

Our own officials were flagging the conditions within these institutions, the high infant mortality and the poor health of children. There wasn’t complete silence. Repeatedly, warnings were raised, but they were ignored.

As I referenced in the Dáil last week, Alice Litster was an Inspector for the Department of Local Government for thirty years, from 1927 through to 1957. From reading the chapters on the individual institutions, it is clear that Miss Litster tried valiantly to improve the conditions within these institutions. She raised concerns about the number of young children within them, highlighting the number of school age children who were being denied an education, and demanded that local authorities provide suitable care and foster homes for these children.

Miss Litster cautioned about the level of adoptions to the USA. In an undated memo on adoptions from Sean Ross, she noted that:

"The babies so sent are the best of our children in the Home, the prettiest, the healthiest, the most promising. The restrictions on sending children out of the country, to be incorporated it is hoped in an Adopted Children’s Bill, will doubtless put a stop to this export of children."

In 1947 Miss Litster commented that many Tuam mothers received no ante-natal care. She criticised the county manager for issuing an order that prohibited the admission of expectant mothers, chargeable to Co Galway, prior to the seventh month of pregnancy. She suggested that this would place a good deal of hardship upon women

"whose condition must become a matter of common knowledge before they are admitted and whose efforts to conceal their condition must have a bad effect upon the health of their infants”.

Miss Litster issued constant warnings of overcrowding and how this was a feature of all ‘special institutions’, highlighting the severity of the situation at hand and the detrimental effects this was having on women and children.

In 1943, Miss Litster provides a detailed report of the children’s nursery in Bessborough. In this, she describes,

"The greater numbers of the babies were ‘miserable scraps of humanity, wizened, some emaciated and almost all had rash and sores all over their bodies, faces, hands and heads’. Their cots ‘were clean, and bed-clothing clean and good."

Miss Litster was determined, and although few improvements were happening, she persevered. It is from her reports that we have undeniable evidence of the failure of the State to intervene, even after the horrors of these institutions were made known. Her efforts on behalf of the vulnerable mothers and children in these institutions should be remembered.

The failings of the State is not just represented by Government Departments ignoring the evidence of what was happening. The Report shows that Local Authorities were intrinsic to the running of these institutions, in terms of paying for many of the mothers that entered them. County Homes were a direct arm of the local authority. We know that meetings of Galway County Council actually took place in the buildings of the institution in Tuam. Many of us here have served in local government, and would be conscious of the real the real commitment of those bodies to improving their local area.

I understand that a number of local authorities are currently considering making apologies for their involvement and maintenance of the system of treatment of women and children demonstrated in this report and I think such steps are necessary and important.

Government Response
The scale of these failures by the State require a response that is comprehensive and meaningful. It must represent a transformation – only in the State’s engagement with survivors, but also in its supports for them. The relationship of trust between the State and the former residents of these institutions has been broken – the Government must begin the process of rebuilding that relationship.

The Cabinet has adopted a whole of Government response to the Commission Report. This contains 22 actions based on 8 themes many of which directly address the concerns and needs of survivors today.

Access to Personal Information
All of us have received representations regarding the importance that many former residents place on access to personal information. Progressing Information and Tracing legislation is an absolute priority for myself, for the Taoiseach and for the entire Government. I have been engaging extensively with the Attorney General on this issue, approaching the matter in a manner grounded in GDPR, where the right of an individual to access personal information about themselves is central. My Department and the Attorney General’s Office are working with a view to have Heads of Bill of Information and Tracing legislation by end March/ early April. This can then proceed rapidly to pre-legislative scrutiny.

Information and tracing legislation will allow for access to wider early life information. It would also allow the National Contact Preference Register to be put on a statutory basis.

However, I want to emphasise to Deputies that our work on this legislation will not delay other efforts to provide earlier access to personal information.

My Department is working intensively to prepare for receipt of the Commission archive at the end of February. I wish to ensure that people can access personal information contained within the archive in line with GDPR. We have established a dedicated Information Management Unit headed by an official with data protection and legal expertise who will be supported by an archivist in advancing many of the important record-related recommendations put forward by the Commission. I have also engaged with the Data Protection Commissioner and have met with independent international experts in the area of GDPR – as was suggested to me by members of this house. This intensive work will continue, with a view to having robust policies and procedures in place for managing subject access requests. Following further consultation with DPC, I hope to publish our policies and procedures prior to 28 February.

My Department will also continue to work to ensure that GDPR compliant policies are appropriately applied to all access points for personal information.

Other Responses
Beyond the issue of access to personal information, another core commitment in the Government’s Response is the creation of a Restorative Recognition Scheme to provide financial recognition. My Department will lead an inter-departmental group which will develop such a scheme and bring forward proposals for it by the end of April. I have already written to releant Government departments, seeking nominations for membership of this group. While the group will consider the three categories of former residents that the Commission highlighted, the Government took the significant decision that its considerations are not restricted to just those three groups.

This inter-departmental group will also assess the provision of a form of enhanced medical card for everyone who spent more than 6 months in Mother and Baby institutions.

Further health supports include access to counselling through the National Counselling Service, within which former residents of Mother & Baby and County Homes are now considered a prioritised group, , meaning they will not be put on a general waiting list. The National Counselling Service has specific professional expertise with past trauma and childhood trauma, and can offer crisis counselling, or counselling services on a short, medium, or long-term basis.

Legislation to allow for the dignified exhumation of the site in Tuam and in other sites if required, and providing for DNA identification will be brought for pre-legislative scrutiny soon. I have written to the Joint Oireachtas Committee asking for it to be prioritised on their agenda.

It is important that proper memorialisation of Ireland’s history of institutionalisation and institutional abuse takes place, particularly important that the testimonies of women are heard, among both our generation and the generations that will come after us.

We have committed to establishing a national memorial and records centre related to institutional trauma, and will be engaging with survivors, as well as professional archivists and historians, to determine how best memorialisation should be happen. This includes both the location of the centre, as well as how best records should be handled, taking into account the sensitivities of people’s personal information. We will also ensure that Departments and State bodies will prioritise the transfer of original files to the National Archives so that they can be publically accessible.

The overarching theme is that this action list will be progressed in a survivor-centred manner. An enhanced model of engagement with former residents, their representative groups, as well as the survivor diaspora will be established, following consultation with the Collaborative Forum. This week I have written to the Collaborative Forum, seeking two meetings with them next month.

Other commitments include:

incorporation of elements of the Report into the second-level curriculum; more specifically how the Commission’s short video on the experiences of women and children can be incorporated
research on Terminology, Representation and Mis-representation with NUIG; and ensuring that this research informs our commitments on memorialisation and national archives
local and national memorialisation and commemoration events;
creation of a specific fund which supports children who experience disadvantage in memory of the children who died in the institutions;
and the creation of a number of scholarships researching childhood disadvantage
In relation to this last point, I’ve asked the Minister for Further and Higher Education if he would consider naming a scholarship after Alice Litster, to mark her efforts to shine a light on what was happening in this institutions over many years.

Conclusion
As I said at the outset, trust between the State and former residents has been broken, because of the State’s failures. It is up to the Government, acting on behalf of the State, to start to rebuild this trust. This means acting comprehensively and acting rapidly, aware of the age of many of former residents and their need to see the tangible benefits of the actions that have been committed to. As a Government, we are aware that the apology delivered by the Taoiseach will ring hollow if it is not back up by actions.

I have outlined timelines for progressing some of the actions above and we will outline further details in forthcoming weeks.

As Deputies know, there will also be engagement with the religious congregations and charities that were directly responsible for running these institutions. I have sought meetings with a number of bodies specifically on the issues of apology, their own contributions to restorative recognition and the provision of institutional records which would be beneficial to survivors.

The State has recognised and seeks to atone for its failures in a meaningful way. I think we all share the belief that others need to do the same.

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

A handful have come forward. Says who? Show me the evidence?

Investigation of what breaking what law?

Well let's start..


Criminal neglect
child traffic
sexual abuse

Falsification of official documentation
illegal detention of a person against their will
possible murder...