Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

CHESSMUTANT · 23-02-2021 8:38pm

Imagine going to the High Court because bicycles.

Seth Brundle · 23-02-2021 8:44pm

CHESSMUTANT wrote: »

Imagine going to the High Court because bicycles.

They're not. They're going because of cars!

Larbre34 · 23-02-2021 8:59pm

Mamma mia.

The bus routes already diverted down Park Avenue were causing chaos today I hear also. Completely unsuitable route for buses.

Thelonious Monk · 23-02-2021 9:11pm

Can't be any worse than St John's road, buses can barely get down that road with the parked cars on either side

magicbastarder · 23-02-2021 9:22pm

they could make the road flip direction for motor traffic based on time of day.
what would port traffic be like? i.e. would it follow normal rush hour traffic patterns?
i would say based on what i saw when commuting, that in the morning, there were more HGVs outbound than inbound, the opposite of what rush hour traffic would usually be, but am very cognisant of the fact that i'd be more likely to notice a HV breathing down my neck, than one passing on the other side of the road.

eeeee · 23-02-2021 9:33pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Mamma mia.

The bus routes already diverted down Park Avenue were causing chaos today I hear also. Completely unsuitable route for buses.

Was out there during 'rush hour'. No such chaos spotted.

Fighting Tao · 23-02-2021 9:34pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Mamma mia.

The bus routes already diverted down Park Avenue were causing chaos today I hear also. Completely unsuitable route for buses.

How so? Wide enough road in the heart of a populated area, rather than at the edge of an area where the sea is at one side.

duskyjoe · 24-02-2021 8:56am

All in sundry with the cycle track going in who need to drive and heading towards the city , are going to make a right turn coming from strand road down Sydney Parade and onto Park Ave to avoid the traffic build up on merrion road . It’s going to get very sporty then re bus access. I can see the council making St John’s Road and Park Ave one way or it’s going to be grid lock.

Fighting Tao · 24-02-2021 9:00am

duskyjoe wrote: »

All in sundry with the cycle track going in who need to drive and heading towards the city , are going to make a right turn coming from strand road down Sydney Parade and onto Park Ave to avoid the traffic build up on merrion road . It’s going to get very sporty then re bus access. I can see the council making St John’s Road and Park Ave one way or it’s going to be grid lock.

This is more scaremongering, and Mannix was saying the same thing about people having to turn right onto strand road when going to the city centre. How many of the journeys into the city centre require cars? Public transport is available. People will change habits. The vast majority of people have more sense than to drive to the city centre.

breezy1985 · 24-02-2021 9:06am

Fighting Tao wrote: »

How so? Wide enough road in the heart of a populated area, rather than at the edge of an area where the sea is at one side.

Buses should not be driving round populated areas as they just cause too many delays. They should all be rerouted onto roads away from densely populated areas

Fighting Tao · 24-02-2021 9:08am

breezy1985 wrote: »

Buses should not be driving round populated areas as they just cause too many delays. They should all be rerouted onto roads away from densely populated areas

I was saying in in the context of Sandymount residents that will barely walk to their cars, yet alone a bus. They need to be tempted to busses on their doorstep before implementation of the likes of bus connects where they may have to walk a few minutes to get to a bus stop. :pac:

magicbastarder · 24-02-2021 9:08am

Not sure if serious - you want traffic evaporation, for people to start using alternative means of transport, but move their bus stops further away?

duskyjoe · 24-02-2021 9:14am

Fighting Tao wrote: »

This is more scaremongering, and Mannix was saying the same thing about people having to turn right onto strand road when going to the city centre. How many of the journeys into the city centre require cars? Public transport is available. People will change habits. The vast majority of people have more sense than to drive to the city centre.

I am not scaremongering- just facts. People commute and to jobs that are not in the city so cars for some are a necessity to get to work. We have dire public infrastructure to replace cars for commuters travelling north side or afar imo.

duskyjoe · 24-02-2021 9:19am

Fighting Tao wrote: »

I was saying in in the context of Sandymount residents that will barely walk to their cars, yet alone a bus. They need to be tempted to busses on their doorstep before implementation of the likes of bus connects where they may have to walk a few minutes to get to a bus stop. :pac:

What about the elderly ? This is not all about the young and those that are lazy to walk to a bus - there are others out there unlike us that can’t walk the the km to a bus. You need to keep all age groups in mind or should we just abandon these people for the greater good of cycling and what it promotes ?

buffalo · 24-02-2021 9:36am

duskyjoe wrote: »

I am not scaremongering- just facts. People commute and to jobs that are not in the city so cars for some are a necessity to get to work. We have dire public infrastructure to replace cars for commuters travelling north side or afar imo.

It's true, there's no way to get from somewhere like Sandymount to the northside using public transport.

a_squirrelman · 24-02-2021 9:38am

duskyjoe wrote: »

What about the elderly ? This is not all about the young and those that are lazy to walk to a bus - there are others out there unlike us that can’t walk the the km to a bus. You need to keep all age groups in mind or should we just abandon these people for the greater good of cycling and what it promotes ?

So bus stops outside every house?

breezy1985 · 24-02-2021 9:49am

magicbastarder wrote: »

Not sure if serious - you want traffic evaporation, for people to start using alternative means of transport, but move their bus stops further away?

I was definitely being sarcastic

magicbastarder · 24-02-2021 9:50am

buffalo wrote: »

It's true, there's no way to get from somewhere like Sandymount to the northside using public transport.

it's very handy in normal times, we can get the 1 bus from about a 5 or ten minute walk from our house, to almost the doorstep of the vintage inn (very near irishtown garda station). they do excellent grub on a friday and saturday - again, in normal times, i hope they weather this storm.

breezy1985 · 24-02-2021 9:51am

a_squirrelman wrote: »

So bus stops outside every house?

I lived on a street like that in London. Don't know why this one particular street was a request stop street but I assume it was just too small to fit a stop or no one would give up their parking or something

BabysCoffee · 24-02-2021 9:53am

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's very handy in normal times, we can get the 1 bus from about a 5 or ten minute walk from our house, to almost the doorstep of the vintage inn (very near irishtown garda station). they do excellent grub on a friday and saturday - again, in normal times, i hope they weather this storm.

Oh that sounds like a nice evening out!

And if you had a fold up bike that you can take on the bus, you could cut that walk to a 1 or 2 min cycle

duskyjoe · 24-02-2021 10:02am

a_squirrelman wrote: »

So bus stops outside every house?

There’s no talking to you guys - it’s either all or nothing, therein lies the divide and it’s turning into a vicious divide.

buffalo · 24-02-2021 10:11am

duskyjoe wrote: »

There’s no talking to you guys - it’s either all or nothing, therein lies the divide and it’s turning into a vicious divide.

I think you'll find this entire thread is about a six month trial of one lane of one road, which is hardly all? People can drive cars in the other lane, and on aaaaall the other roads in the city. So on that basis, we can assume you support the trial?

magicbastarder · 24-02-2021 10:14am

duskyjoe wrote: »

it’s turning into a vicious divide.

ah, could you not have said 'vicious cycle'? cos i can't use what you did say in a bad pun.

silverharp · 24-02-2021 10:24am

its difficult to not see it be a success during the next few months as driving around is so easy at the moment. It will be easier to take a view after the summer, personally Ill be happy so long at there are not lines of traffic back into the village as that would be new.
There is one odd downside of this, The Merrion centre is the main Supermarket for people in Sandymount, there will now be no direct way to get home, you essentially need to drive up to the carriageway and come back by Donnybrook church do a 2k trip would become a 4 or 5k one.

duskyjoe · 24-02-2021 10:29am

silverharp wrote: »

iThe Merrion centre is the main Supermarket for people in Sandymount, there will now be no direct way to get home, you essentially need to drive up to the carriageway and come back by Donnybrook church do a 2k trip would become a 4 or 5k one.

there’s a tesco in Sandymount , albeit no parking but just buy a cargo bike and your sorted ! I wouldn’t hold up the merrion centre as a doyen of shopping, a kip if you ask me

silverharp · 24-02-2021 10:33am

duskyjoe wrote: »

there’s a tesco in Sandymount , albeit no parking but just buy a cargo bike and your sorted ! I wouldn’t hold up the merrion centre as a doyen of shopping, a kip if you ask me

its only a metro, its ok for small walk in shopping but one would still need to go to a bigger supermarket once a week

magicbastarder · 24-02-2021 10:39am

this popped up in my twitter feed this morning (posted by david o'doherty, a keen cyclist so i can only speculate as to his reasoning for doing so:

Every NIMBY’s Speech At a Public Hearing

Friends, neighbors, it’s good to see all of you. I know you, you know me, and just seeing all of your faces at this city council meeting reminds me why I love living in this town. Because I feel comforted by stasis and regularity, both fed by ignorance, and which combine to perpetuate injustice.

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/every-nimbys-speech-at-a-public-hearing

loyatemu · 24-02-2021 10:53am

silverharp wrote: »

its only a metro, its ok for small walk in shopping but one would still need to go to a bigger supermarket once a week

why couldn't you come back via Serpentine Ave, or Sydney Parade & Park Ave?

tomasrojo · 24-02-2021 10:59am

Has anyone brought up the difficulty of carrying a double bass on a bicycle yet?

PaulieC · 24-02-2021 11:02am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yep, no doubt about that, the taxi drivers and white van men of Ringsend etc are hating this news, I've seen it on Facebook. Not just the poshos of Sandymount.

Good to see that it's not just inverse snobbery...plenty of inverse inverse snobbery too

Seaswimmer · 24-02-2021 11:05am

loyatemu wrote: »

why couldn't you come back via Serpentine Ave, or Sydney Parade & Park Ave?

I presume because there is no right turn on Merrion Road towards Sydney Parade?

PaulieC · 24-02-2021 11:05am

Somewhat related, if not in location, but there is a campaign to stop the wooden bridge closing to motor traffic. One of the points they are using is that the light sequence for motorists coming off/onto the bridge are too short and are asking for the cycle lane green light phases to be shorter.

PaulieC · 24-02-2021 11:07am

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I presume because there is no right turn on Merrion Road towards Sydney Parade?

There is a right turn down serpentine, which brings you to Claremont road and into the village. The original complaint was that Sandymounters who go Merrion would have to use the N11 to get home.

duskyjoe · 24-02-2021 11:07am

loyatemu wrote: »

why couldn't you come back via Serpentine Ave, or Sydney Parade & Park Ave?

No turn right at Sydney Parade from merrion rd .

PaulieC · 24-02-2021 11:08am

magicbastarder wrote: »

this popped up in my twitter feed this morning (posted by david o'doherty, a keen cyclist so i can only speculate as to his reasoning for doing so:

Every NIMBY’s Speech At a Public Hearing

https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/every-nimbys-speech-at-a-public-hearing

NANBYs are the new NIMBYs. I'm Not A Nimby But

magicbastarder · 24-02-2021 11:08am

tomasrojo wrote: »

Has anyone brought up the difficulty of carrying a double bass on a bicycle yet?

a friend has become much more interested in cycling recently (though i think more as a concept than an actual activity so far). she's a cellist and is about 5'1" and has managed so far without a car. though a taxi driver nearly once knocked her out with her own cello while trying to get it into the boot.

Fighting Tao · 24-02-2021 11:10am

magicbastarder wrote: »

Not sure if serious - you want traffic evaporation, for people to start using alternative means of transport, but move their bus stops further away?

It’d have to study bus connects but it is possible that they will move to Merrion Road with a circular route linking them. I’m saying that not having studied the bus connects plan for the area though. It will probably end up in court too!

silverharp · 24-02-2021 11:11am

loyatemu wrote: »

why couldn't you come back via Serpentine Ave, or Sydney Parade & Park Ave?

Sydney Parade has always been a no right turn , merrion gates was the only way of getting back from Tesco, Serpentine I guess, but it means going from one end of Sandymount to the far end and doubling back and using Claremont road (for me) which isnt a good road anyway and seems to be one of the roads mentioned as a new rat run

Thelonious Monk · 24-02-2021 11:13am

PaulieC wrote: »

Somewhat related, if not in location, but there is a campaign to stop the wooden bridge closing to motor traffic. One of the points they are using is that the light sequence for motorists coming off/onto the bridge are too short and are asking for the cycle lane green light phases to be shorter.

Who is campaigning for that? Any time the weather is nice far too many cars go there, the only thing they can do is restrict them at this stage, as it's just going to get worse and worse as the years go on.

Fighting Tao · 24-02-2021 11:13am

duskyjoe wrote: »

What about the elderly ? This is not all about the young and those that are lazy to walk to a bus - there are others out there unlike us that can’t walk the the km to a bus. You need to keep all age groups in mind or should we just abandon these people for the greater good of cycling and what it promotes ?

No. It is about a few that are determined to drive everywhere up to and including 100m to the local shop. You do realise that many elderly are very capable of cycling too. Many do.

Thelonious Monk · 24-02-2021 11:16am

The elderly and disabled are just used to score points, I really don't think anyone gives a f*ck about them, they just don't want any restrictions on cars.

tomasrojo · 24-02-2021 11:16am

magicbastarder wrote: »

a friend has become much more interested in cycling recently (though i think more as a concept than an actual activity so far). she's a cellist and is about 5'1" and has managed so far without a car. though a taxi driver nearly once knocked her out with her own cello while trying to get it into the boot.

As I understand it you can get cello backpacks and trailers. The latter are better for shorter people, I assume.

I usually use a BackAx harness these days when I have to carry a guitar on the bike, but I assume they're a little easier to carry than a cello, let alone a double bass.

loyatemu · 24-02-2021 11:19am

silverharp wrote: »

Sydney Parade has always been a no right turn , merrion gates was the only way of getting back from Tesco, Serpentine I guess, but it means going from one end of Sandymount to the far end and doubling back and using Claremont road (for me) which isnt a good road anyway and seems to be one of the roads mentioned as a new rat run

still better than schlepping up to the N11.
Some journeys by car becoming slightly longer to accommodate safer and more direct cycling routes is an acceptable trade-off, and the sort of thing that should be happening everywhere. Encourage cycling, discourage driving for short trips.

Fighting Tao · 24-02-2021 11:20am

silverharp wrote: »

Sydney Parade has always been a no right turn , merrion gates was the only way of getting back from Tesco, Serpentine I guess, but it means going from one end of Sandymount to the far end and doubling back and using Claremont road (for me) which isnt a good road anyway and seems to be one of the roads mentioned as a new rat run

Yes Sydney Parade has no right turn, not that it means much to loads of people. Those who want to be seen to be more correct turn left and then do a u-turn to cross Merrion road.

On the subject of rat runs where people are guessing, unless it is efficient, it will not be used. I can’t remember Claremont off the top of my head, but it may not be used. Traffic calming measures could also be requested by residents to prevent rat runs.

PaulieC · 24-02-2021 11:20am

tomasrojo wrote: »
As I understand it you can get cello backpacks and trailers. The latter are better for shorter people, I assume.

I usually use a BackAx harness these days when I have to carry a guitar on the bike, but I assume they're a little easier to carry than a cello, let alone a double bass.

Sandymount locals can't carry their cellos on bikes coz the elderly, covid, special needs kids, families and rights.

magicbastarder · 24-02-2021 11:21am

is there a feasible one way system to adopt on affected roads? i.e. create a few loops, maybe join them up?

Fighting Tao · 24-02-2021 11:23am

magicbastarder wrote: »

is there a feasible one way system to adopt on affected roads? i.e. create a few loops, maybe join them up?

Computer (a few residents) says no.

ted1 · 24-02-2021 11:28am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Mamma mia.

The bus routes already diverted down Park Avenue were causing chaos today I hear also. Completely unsuitable route for buses.

Teething problems, there’s always going to be issues at the start with any change.

ted1 · 24-02-2021 11:33am

silverharp wrote: »

its difficult to not see it be a success during the next few months as driving around is so easy at the moment. It will be easier to take a view after the summer, personally Ill be happy so long at there are not lines of traffic back into the village as that would be new.
There is one odd downside of this, The Merrion centre is the main Supermarket for people in Sandymount, there will now be no direct way to get home, you essentially need to drive up to the carriageway and come back by Donnybrook church do a 2k trip would become a 4 or 5k one.

You don’t need to drive 2km. You could get a wheelie trolly like every granny had in the 80s and 90s. Or get it delivered.
Driving a 2km round trip is where the problem is.

Hoppa Lightweight Shopping Trolley Folding 2 Wheel Large Capacity Shopper (Black Flamingos) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07KSCC16W/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_TXFHH124WVTF585P46DA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

ted1 · 24-02-2021 11:35am

breezy1985 wrote: »

Buses should not be driving round populated areas as they just cause too many delays. They should all be rerouted onto roads away from densely populated areas

That kind of defeats the purpose.
Perhaps Dublin Bus should relocate to Donegal.

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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