Je Suis Mila

MMXX · 24-01-2020 8:54pm

Islam, is a very tricky subject to talk about, if you ask me - especially in today's world. There's a fine line between bigotry, and the truth - a very, very fine line. And I find it very difficult to walk this line. On one hand, I see the good, law-abiding, honest, hard-working Muslims - trying to live their lives as best as they can; I see Muslims displaced by war, genocide and conflict - the innocent Muslims killed by other Muslims - and non-Muslims alike... ...on the other hand - I see in Europe, and indeed the entire world - terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack, after terrorist attack - and I can not help but think... Jesus - there's a terrible amount of death associated with this particular religion. Is it really just a coincidence? Really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_in_Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

Isn't Islam a little bit different? A little bit more dangerous than the others? Surely it is? Regardless of anything and everything? Surely it is?

James Brown · 24-01-2020 9:00pm

Gynoid wrote: »

It does not worry you that in 2020 in Europe a young person has to go into hiding from death and rape threats because she criticised a religion?
The aggressors will be dealt with if they rape or kill her.
Okay. Good to know your opinion.

Do I worry about criminals and believe they should be deterred and brought to justice? Yes.

Are you suggesting we invoke some form of thought police to preempt any criminal behaviour based on people being from a particular demographic because you might have issues with it? Because I don't.
We can only act on criminal behaviour.
The people threatening her can and should be charged....seems to me you are suggesting we treat people from a certain religion differently to everyone else.

James Brown · 24-01-2020 9:07pm

MMXX wrote: »

.....
there's a terrible amount of death associated with this particular religion. Is it really just a coincidence? Really?

Isn't Islam a little bit different? A little bit more dangerous than the others? Surely it is? Regardless of anything and everything? Surely it is?

No, it isn't.
Will I counter with Christians carpet bombing schools, hospitals for oil money? The region the west continually craps on from a great height is mostly Muslim, so any terrorist group pissed off at the west will be Muslim.
When Bin Laden took out the twin towers the U.S. used it as and excuse to torch an entire country.
Do you hold yourself responsible for that?

Gynoid · 24-01-2020 9:12pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Do I worry about criminals and believe they should be deterred and brought to justice? Yes.

Are you suggesting we invoke some form of thought police to preempt any criminal behaviour based on people being from a particular demographic because you might have issues with it? Because I don't.
We can only act on criminal behaviour.
The people threatening her can and should be charged....seems to me you are suggesting we treat people from a certain religion differently to everyone else.

Not at all. The point of my inelegant thought experiment is that ANYONE issuing death or rape threats against another person who has criticised their ideological tenets should be abhorred by a thinking society. And very publicly condemed and routed.
I find it strange that there even exists such a cohort, evidently not tiny given the huge amount of abuse and threats Mila received, and who feel comfortable to threaten a person with death in such a public way. They doxxed her too, remember. She will likely be fearful for the rest of her life. People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali live circumscribed lives because of people like that. The Danish film maker Van Gogh does not live at all, along with 12 people who worked at Charlie Hebdo. This is a thread of subtle terrorism that weaves through modern Europe.

Quantum Erasure · 24-01-2020 9:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No need to be ashamed of yourself; just maybe read the opening post a little more carefully.

it's a pity though, if it had've been about the girl the thread might have taken off, we could have gotten 10 or 12 pages out of it at this stage, as it turns out we skipped the foreplay and blew our load too soon...

MMXX · 24-01-2020 9:17pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Will I counter with Christians carpet bombing schools, hospitals for oil money? The region the west continually craps on from a great height is mostly Muslim, so any terrorist group pissed off at the west will be Muslim.
When Bin Laden took out the twin towers the U.S. used it as and excuse to torch an entire country.
Do you hold yourself responsible for that?

Two things can be true at the same time. Just because America is the most outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt nation on the earth - doesn't mean that Islam is not the most dangerous religion. It wasn't George Washington that wrote the Koran.

Gynoid · 24-01-2020 9:22pm

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

it's a pity though, if it had've been about the girl the thread might have taken off, we could have gotten 10 or 12 pages out of it at this stage, we skipped the foreplay and blew our load too soon...

I don't care about threads "taking off". I am accustomed to holding unpopular opinions. It struck me that there was very little media coverage of the situation, and I thought to bring it to some attention on a public forum. C'est tout. No masturbatory intent at all. You know about Mila now. You know that the French police have told a 16 year old girl to go into hiding for blaspheming. You can let that fact work in your brain, however subtly, and let it contribute to your comprehension of some small part of the way some things are. That is enough.

Sardonicat · 24-01-2020 9:25pm

Any repercussions for those who threatened her with rape and murder?

Gynoid · 24-01-2020 9:33pm

Sardonicat wrote: »

Any repercussions for those who threatened her with rape and murder?

Well hopefully there will be. But the police are also investigating if Mila commited the crime of hate speech.

Quantum Erasure · 24-01-2020 9:35pm

Gynoid wrote: »

I don't care about threads "taking off". ... You know about Mila now. You know that the French police have told a 16 year old girl to go into hiding for blaspheming.

when i read the OP I thought the thread would go a different path, and I thought about a tweet I read yesterday, that I would have posted when the conversation turned in that direction...

from a victim of a sex ring in the West Midlands

https://twitter.com/KateElysiaNWO/status/1219738058448351236

she has posted her reply to that request, aswell as some passages from the unedited manuscript, as replies to that tweet, with a trigger warning

James Brown · 24-01-2020 9:46pm

MMXX wrote: »

Two things can be true at the same time. Just because America is the most outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt nation on the earth - doesn't mean that Islam is not the most dangerous religion. It wasn't George Washington that wrote the Koran.

Does it mean all Christian people are outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt by virtue of sharing much the same religious 'principles'?

Look, Muslim bashing thread. Yawn. Same jaded illogical gripes.

s7ryf3925pivug · 24-01-2020 9:56pm

Gynoid wrote: »

*A 16 year old girl from Cork was having the craic online and posted a video of herself singing. She is a lesbian and wants to be a pop star. She got some pretty nasty sexual comments back from a young lad and when she rebuffed him he publicly called her a dirty Irish whore, a dirty dyke, and so on. He then said he was a Catholic. The girl responded by saying I hate all religions, Catholicism is full of hate, I have no time for any of it, your priests rape children, your nuns kill babies.

The internet went mad. Some lads went online and published the girls name, address and where she goes to school. Hundreds if not thousands of homophobic and misogynistic threats were posted online against her, calling for her to be hunted down, raped, attacked and killed. Really vile stuff.

The local cops visited the girl in school and told her to leave and to go immediately into hiding. They told her family to be careful of their security. There are efforts being made now to find those who have threatened her with death. She says she has nothing against any type of people, she just really hates religion, and that she speaks her mind and should be allowed to do so.

Terrible thing to happen. Sure, she could have been less crude, but she is a stroppy fiery girl and she does not like creeps perving on her, she does not like homophobic attacks on her and she also does not like religion, like many before her.

*This did not really happen in Cork.

But it did really happen elsewhere, the girl is French, the boy said he is a Muslim. I think it is just as bad as if the fictional scenario happened. Do you?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/french-teenager-in-hiding-after-insulting-islam-online-0vl5hrs0m

You're quite articulate for someone posting this sort of nonsense.

Gynoid · 24-01-2020 10:04pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Does it mean all Christian people are outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt by virtue of sharing much the same religious 'principles'?

No. But some are. Presumably you do not censor yourself or others when it comes to attacking those (Christians? Mormons? Whatever..) whose ideologies you disagree with.

And how would you feel if after you condemned, oh say Trump, for example, (I would say you have been incensed by Trump on the odd occasion) for his religion or politics, the other parties to the discussion divulged your name, address, place of work and incited others to rape and murder you.
Would you be happy enough to go into hiding and be told that those who had publicly called for your rape and murder would be dealt with should they attack you.

I do not understand your levels of equivocation. Bizarre to me.

s7ryf3925pivug · 24-01-2020 10:06pm

Is the Koran full of hate? I don't know much about it.

Saudi Arabia has been exporting a violent and regressive form of Islam for decades now. The Sheiks there are more to blame than anyone for the level of radicalisation of muslims.

Gynoid · 24-01-2020 10:09pm

Alicia Clean Monster wrote: »

You're quite articulate for someone posting this sort of nonsense.

Gosh, I know. It is tricky when the person you disagree with is not slurring moronically at you and spraying you with their spittle. Oh well. A little cognitive dissonance for you to warm you for the weekend.

James Brown · 24-01-2020 10:18pm

Gynoid wrote: »

No. But some are. Presumably you do not censor yourself or others when it comes to attacking those (Christians? Mormons? Whatever..) whose ideologies you disagree with.

And how would you feel if after you condemned, oh say Trump, for example, (I would say you have been incensed by Trump on the odd occasion) for his religion or politics, the other parties to the discussion divulged your name, address, place of work and incited others to rape and murder you.
Would you be happy enough to go into hiding and be told that those who had publicly called for your rape and murder would be dealt with should they attack you.

I do not understand your levels of equivocation. Bizarre to me.

Again, some people engage in illegal activities. They are held to account.
I cant help but think you have an issue with all Muslims as you say not all but then go on to speak like it is all.
Be clear and honest.
What is it that I'm saying that leads you to ask if I'm okay with criminal behaviour?

s7ryf3925pivug · 24-01-2020 10:23pm

Gynoid wrote: »

Gosh, I know.

So you agree that most people who post stuff like this seem a bit thick. Cool.

I've never encountered the sort of double standard about Islam and christianity you allude to. I suspect it's mainly imaginary.

Gynoid · 24-01-2020 10:33pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Again, some people engage in illegal activities. They are held to account.
I cant help but think you have an issue with all Muslims as you say not all but then go on to speak like it is all.
Be clear and honest.
What is it that I'm saying that leads you to ask if I'm okay with criminal behaviour?

You are projecting your own bigotry onto me. I have a couple of dear Muslim friends, I have studied and appreciated a reasonable amount of mystical Islam as comparative religion is a strong interest of mine, I am actually a fair minded and kind person. Not what you seem to imagine at all. What I see in terms of some of the aspects of Islam as they evolve in the Middle East and now in Europe frightens me, such as this death threat to a girl expressing herself. It represents the very worst possible manifestations of an unreformed uneducated backward fanatical fundamentalistic medieval cult which is dangerous and has no place in a modern culture. And there are many good Muslims - writers, poets, politicians, etc - who are brave and willing enough to call out the backward evil happenings that occur supposedly in the name of Islam in these times, so I have those people's experience and opinions to trust for back up.

s7ryf3925pivug · 24-01-2020 10:41pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRbq63r7rys

Granny15 · 24-01-2020 11:16pm

Gynoid wrote: »

*A 16 year old girl from Cork was having the craic online and posted a video of herself singing. She is a lesbian and wants to be a pop star. She got some pretty nasty sexual comments back from a young lad and when she rebuffed him he publicly called her a dirty Irish whore, a dirty dyke, and so on. He then said he was a Catholic. The girl responded by saying I hate all religions, Catholicism is full of hate, I have no time for any of it, your priests rape children, your nuns kill babies.

The internet went mad. Some lads went online and published the girls name, address and where she goes to school. Hundreds if not thousands of homophobic and misogynistic threats were posted online against her, calling for her to be hunted down, raped, attacked and killed. Really vile stuff.

The local cops visited the girl in school and told her to leave and to go immediately into hiding. They told her family to be careful of their security. There are efforts being made now to find those who have threatened her with death. She says she has nothing against any type of people, she just really hates religion, and that she speaks her mind and should be allowed to do so.

Terrible thing to happen. Sure, she could have been less crude, but she is a stroppy fiery girl and she does not like creeps perving on her, she does not like homophobic attacks on her and she also does not like religion, like many before her.

*This did not really happen in Cork.

But it did really happen elsewhere, the girl is French, the boy said he is a Muslim. I think it is just as bad as if the fictional scenario happened. Do you?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/french-teenager-in-hiding-after-insulting-islam-online-0vl5hrs0m

This is a poor attempt to incite hatred towards immigrants / Muslims. The whole thread is a string of verbal diiahorria with you verbally masterbating with yourself about your poorly disguised hatred. Pathetic really

MMXX · 24-01-2020 11:24pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Does it mean all Christian people are outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt by virtue of sharing much the same religious 'principles'?

Look, Muslim bashing thread. Yawn. Same jaded illogical gripes.

No, we all know that the Christians are not like that. But that's the difference isn't it? America doesn't go to war, nor invade countries, nor drop bombs - in the name of God. It's about power, control and dominance. Terrorist attacks committed by Muslims, in contrast - are indeed carried out in the name of God. There is a big difference.

That is not 'Muslim bashing' - THIS is not 'Muslim bashing', that's not what this is. This is the very reason I was reluctant to post on this thread. I wonder if it was your daughter, or sister - threatened with rape, and death - by a seething, online mob - would you be so... diplomatic. Or if they, God forbid - went to a f***ing Ariana Grande concert - and got blown to pieces, in the name of Islam - by a man shouting 'God is Great', would you be able to... overlook, what religion he happened to belong to? Would it not be important? Would it have no relevance?

Maybe it is important? Maybe it is relevant? Maybe THIS is NOT, 'Muslim Bashing'?

Raconteuse · 24-01-2020 11:49pm

meeeeh wrote: »

let's not pretend that nonmuslims don't threaten women with all sorts of violence.

Nobody here is pretending that.

25-01-2020 12:41am

I think this was a very telling thread. We have the usual suspects coming along and immediately calling it a "muslim-bashing" thread while the original poster and various other posters explained in detail that there was no hatred towards Muslims but rather a hatred for the fact that any criticism of Islam was immediately defended by certain posters and certain sections of society and deemed as some attack or some sort of vilification.

There is no Muslim bashing here. There is a bit of questioning of the public perception of daring to critique Islam and their extremist followers reaction to that criticism. Yet somehow, that alone is tantamount to being anti Muslim.

It's beyond parody at this stage.

Raconteuse · 25-01-2020 4:17am

Recently saw an interview with Salman Rushdie about the fatwah declared on him. A nightmare for him.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 25-01-2020 4:26am

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

it's a pity though, if it had've been about the girl the thread might have taken off, we could have gotten 10 or 12 pages out of it at this stage, as it turns out we skipped the foreplay and blew our load too soon...

Basically.

Could have been a really interesting thread but how it was framed was a bit obvious.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-01-2020 5:49am

Every religion has assholes.

One eyed Jack · 25-01-2020 8:51am

Gynoid wrote: »

There is not a week goes past that I do not read equally strident views on boards about other religions. Is the expression of those opinions all the poor decisions of very young people, or do people feel on boards feel free to express themselves however vehemently without fear of death and rape threat?

I have no doubt if Boards were as big as Instagram, there’d be far more attention drawn to someone inciting hatred of Christians, and I have no doubt that there would be some people would make death threats and trip over each other to “up the game” so to speak, making as vile comments as they like posting the first thing that comes into their heads.

I get your point that you don’t want blasphemy laws, but if people assume the right to freedom of expression is the right to express themselves however they like, then they shouldn’t be surprised that everyone has that right, or nobody has that right. It’s double standards to suggest that one group of people can say what they like about another group of people, and the other group of people do not have the same right to express themselves as they wish!

You don’t want any sacred cows except the ones you agree with. My view is that freedom of expression does not imply freedom from consequences or freedom from taking responsibility for one’s actions. It never has. I don’t believe anyone should have the freedom to behave like an arsehole and then expect to be protected. That applies irrespective of any gender or sex or age or religion or any of the rest of it, whatever their beliefs are about other people.

The French police in this particular case have opened two separate investigations - one into whether or not the teenager was inciting hatred, the other into the death threats which she received. By framing it in an Irish context I think your point was almost lost as there isn’t anything like the attitude towards Catholics who are a majority in Irish society as there is towards Muslims who are a minority in France.

Gynoid · 25-01-2020 9:07am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I get your point that you don’t want anti-blasphemy laws, but if people assume the right to freedom of expression is the right to express themselves however they like, then they shouldn’t be surprised that everyone has that right, or nobody has that right. It’s double standards to suggest that one group of people can say what they like about another group of people, and the other group of people do not have the same right to express themselves as they wish!

You don’t want any sacred cows except the ones you agree with. My view is that freedom of expression does not imply freedom from consequences or freedom from taking responsibility for one’s actions. It never has. I don’t believe anyone should have the freedom to behave like an arsehole and then expect to be protected. That applies irrespective of any gender or sex or age or religion or any of the rest of it, whatever their beliefs are about other people.

.

Freedom of speech is circumscribed in civilised democracies as anyone knows. You cannot depict child abuse*. You cannot make death threats. You cannot incite to violence such as rape. These sort of sensible nuanced exceptions. It is not that hard. Any argument that says if you want free speech you gotta support letting absolutely anything be said or shown falls under several logical fallacies.

(* Note since November 2019 Twitter changed their terms of service to permit users to discuss and post openly about their sexual attraction to children. Yup.)

One eyed Jack · 25-01-2020 9:31am

Gynoid wrote: »

Freedom of speech is circumscribed in civilised democracies as anyone knows. You cannot depict child abuse*. You cannot make death threats. You cannot incite to violence such as rape. These sort of sensible nuanced exceptions. It is not that hard. Any argument that says if you want free speech you gotta support letting absolutely anything be said or shown falls under several logical fallacies.

(* Note since November 2019 Twitter changed their terms of service to permit users to discuss and post openly about their sexual attraction to children. Yup.)

That wasn’t the argument I was making. The point I’m making is that what is circumscribed under laws regarding freedom of expression is generally considered offensive to public morals or likely to incite hatred against a particular group in any democratic society.

That’s why in an Irish context, nobody really gives a hoot about anyone saying whatever they like about Catholics, whereas if they were to say whatever they like about Muslims, it’s not the same thing, it’s a completely different scenario. It’s why a person can say what they like about the unemployed, but may find themselves in trouble for saying what they like about travellers.

There are plenty of sensible, nuanced exceptions I can think of, and the point I’m making is that in a democracy, nobody should be exempt from having to abide by those standards. It’s double standards to suggest that any one group should have the freedom to say what they like about another group and then claim that they are the victim when that group retaliate.

Gynoid · 25-01-2020 9:40am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

That wasn’t the argument I was making. The point I’m making is that what is circumscribed under laws regarding freedom of expression is generally considered offensive to public morals or likely to incite hatred against a particular group in any democratic society.

That’s why in an Irish context, nobody really gives a hoot about anyone saying whatever they like about Catholics, whereas if they were to say whatever they like about Muslims, it’s not the same thing, it’s a completely different scenario. It’s why a person can say what they like about the unemployed, but may find themselves in trouble for saying what they like about travellers.

There are plenty of sensible, nuanced exceptions I can think of, and the point I’m making is that in a democracy, nobody should be exempt from having to abide by those standards. It’s double standards to suggest that any one group should have the freedom to say what they like about another group and then claim that they are the victim when that group retaliate.

Okay. Blasphemy laws for Jack then. Specifically with respect to Islam. Specifically in European countries. Cool. No worries.

One eyed Jack · 25-01-2020 9:57am

Gynoid wrote: »

Okay. Blasphemy laws for Jack then. Specifically with respect to Islam. Specifically in European countries. Cool. No worries.

And don’t forget blasphemy laws for Gynoid, specifically with respect to people shooting their mouth off and thinking they can say whatever they like, anywhere in the world. Cool.

I won’t be too bothered by whatever happens to those people, I have absolutely no concern for them whatsoever. They imagine they should be exempt from laws which apply to everyone in a democratic society, they shouldn’t be surprised to meet their equivalent in other people. The law doesn’t let them fight it out amongst themselves because someone is bound to get hurt, and the law is there to attempt to prevent that from happening. I can’t say I’d care all that much if it did tbh. People who behave like arseholes shouldn’t expect to be protected by society.

Still waters · 25-01-2020 10:02am

You'd have to admire islam for the absolute mentally deranged nutters it creates, morons who think a 16 year old deserves to be raped and beaten for speaking out against their bullshít religion, it shows the true face of muslims/islam and its intolerance of western society, wait until they start becoming majority in European capital cities and start getting elected into positions of power, fun times ahead for women and homosexuals if they get their way

s7ryf3925pivug · 25-01-2020 10:14am

Still waters wrote: »

You'd have to admire islam for the absolute mentally deranged nutters it creates, morons who think a 16 year old deserves to be raped and beaten for speaking out against their bullshít religion, it shows the true face of muslims/islam and its intolerance of western society, wait until they start becoming majority in European capital cities and start getting elected into positions of power, fun times ahead for women and homosexuals if they get their way

It's Wahhabism, a movement within Islam.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

You've probably met quite a lot of Muslim people. You've probably met few if any Wahhabi. Most Muslim people you've met will probably be on the same page as you about this stuff - except of course for attributing it to Islam overall.

antix80 · 25-01-2020 10:16am

Good twist op..

I read your post and wondered why (a) people didn't bash the boy for being Catholic, as that's the trendy thing to do in Ireland and (b) why the police overreacted so badly.

Your post only made sense when you mentioned the Muslims. Obviously #NotAllMuslims... But Islam has a special attraction for the more savage and toxic elements of African and Middle Eastern culture.

One eyed Jack · 25-01-2020 10:17am

Still waters wrote: »

You'd have to admire islam for the absolute mentally deranged nutters it creates, morons who think a 16 year old deserves to be raped and beaten for speaking out against their bullshít religion, it shows the true face of muslims/islam and its intolerance of western society

Islam doesn’t create absolutely mentally deranged nutters and morons who think a 16 year old deserves to be raped and beaten for “speaking out against their bullshìt religion”. It doesn’t “show the true face of Islam and it’s intolerance of western society” either. Mentally deranged nutters and morons with some rather funky ideas for other people who are different to them in some way exist throughout all societies and cultures across the world and throughout history. It’s not Islam is the cause, it’s people.

Still waters wrote: »

wait until they start becoming majority in European capital cities and start getting elected into positions of power, fun times ahead for women and homosexuals if they get their way

You say that like Western society isn’t doing and hasn’t done a bang-up job of it throughout history without any need of assistance from Islam :pac:

Still waters · 25-01-2020 11:11am

Alicia Clean Monster wrote: »

It's Wahhabism, a movement within Islam.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

You've probably met quite a lot of Muslim people. You've probably met few if any Wahhabi. Most Muslim people you've met will probably be on the same page as you about this stuff - except of course for attributing it to Islam overall.

Its the extremists i was specifically talking about, i know a few muslims all lovely people no different than anyone else, but essentially its islam that brain washes these nutters and lack of intelligence or education seems to give them a hers mentality where they see its ok to call for the rape of a child

Still waters · 25-01-2020 11:16am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You say that like Western society isn’t doing and hasn’t done a bang-up job of it throughout history without any need of assistance from Islam :pac:

Good comparison :pac:

s7ryf3925pivug · 25-01-2020 11:16am

Still waters wrote: »

Its the extremists i was specifically talking about, i know a few muslims all lovely people no different than anyone else, but essentially its islam that brain washes these nutters and lack of intelligence or education seems to give them a hers mentality where they see its ok to call for the rape of a child

No it's Wahhabism, a sect within Islam that is being actively propagated internationally. It's essentially weaponized religion. The video I posted earlier is a very well known and excellent BBC documentary that dissects the phenomenon.

One eyed Jack · 25-01-2020 11:21am

Still waters wrote: »

Its the extremists i was specifically talking about, i know a few muslims all lovely people no different than anyone else, but essentially its islam that brain washes these nutters and lack of intelligence or education seems to give them a hers mentality where they see its ok to call for the rape of a child

Freudian slip? :pac:

Still waters · 25-01-2020 11:58am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Freudian slip? :pac:

Is it? or did the redefine the meaning of freudian slip, I'm on my phone so predictive text is a bitch sometimes, but it gives a good indication to the mentality of the type of poster you are

One eyed Jack · 25-01-2020 12:41pm

Still waters wrote: »

Is it? or did the redefine the meaning of freudian slip, I'm on my phone so predictive text is a bitch sometimes, but it gives a good indication to the mentality of the type of poster you are

What are you asking me for? I didn’t know, that’s why I asked you. For what it’s worth, a Freudian slip is this -

A Freudian slip, also called parapraxis, is an error in speech, memory, or physical action that occurs due to the interference of an unconscious subdued wish or internal train of thought. The concept is part of classical psychoanalysis. Classical examples involve slips of the tongue, but psychoanalytic theory also embraces misreadings, mishearings, mistypings, temporary forgettings, and the mislaying and losing of objects.

Whatever you inferred from my making a light hearted joke of an obviously unintentional error on your part, is entirely your own business. I couldn’t care less what some randomer on the Internet thinks of me personally.

TomSweeney · 25-01-2020 1:23pm

Gynoid wrote: »

*A 16 year old girl from Cork was having the craic online and posted a video of herself singing. She is a lesbian and wants to be a pop star. She got some pretty nasty sexual comments back from a young lad and when she rebuffed him he publicly called her a dirty Irish whore, a dirty dyke, and so on. He then said he was a Catholic. The girl responded by saying I hate all religions, Catholicism is full of hate, I have no time for any of it, your priests rape children, your nuns kill babies.

The internet went mad. Some lads went online and published the girls name, address and where she goes to school. Hundreds if not thousands of homophobic and misogynistic threats were posted online against her, calling for her to be hunted down, raped, attacked and killed. Really vile stuff.

The local cops visited the girl in school and told her to leave and to go immediately into hiding. They told her family to be careful of their security. There are efforts being made now to find those who have threatened her with death. She says she has nothing against any type of people, she just really hates religion, and that she speaks her mind and should be allowed to do so.

Terrible thing to happen. Sure, she could have been less crude, but she is a stroppy fiery girl and she does not like creeps perving on her, she does not like homophobic attacks on her and she also does not like religion, like many before her.

*This did not really happen in Cork.

But it did really happen elsewhere, the girl is French, the boy said he is a Muslim. I think it is just as bad as if the fictional scenario happened. Do you?

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/french-teenager-in-hiding-after-insulting-islam-online-0vl5hrs0m

nice one OP!

The point is spot on though.
If the first scenario did happen, there would be outrage, it would be front page news, Ryan Tubridy and Pat Kenny would be going on and on about it on their shows - it might even be the number 2 story behind their Trump hysteria.

TomSweeney · 25-01-2020 1:29pm

I nearly choked when I read the last line of the article - at least the free article
"Prosecutors are investigating 2 crimes - the 1st the validity of the threats of rape and murder, the 2nd whether the original comments amount to hate speech

Absolutely despicable.
I wonder what crime the "liberals" will be pushing for here ??? hmm..

Now back to our OP's original scenario - so would they be even looking at "hate speech" if this anti religious talk was directed toward the RCC ???

LIKE F*UCK THEY WOULD!!

s7ryf3925pivug · 25-01-2020 1:38pm

TomSweeney wrote: »

I nearly choked when I read the last line of the article - at least the free article
"Prosecutors are investigating 2 crimes - the 1st the validity of the threats of rape and murder, the 2nd whether the original comments amount to hate speech

Absolutely despicable.
I wonder what crime the "liberals" will be pushing for here ??? hmm..

Now back to our OP's original scenario - so would they be even looking at "hate speech" if this anti religious talk was directed toward the RCC ???

LIKE F*UCK THEY WOULD!!

The original comments calling her a dyke etc are probably what they refer to. AFAIK all she said was that Islam was a **** religion in her opinion and the Koran was full of hate.

Gynoid · 25-01-2020 1:49pm

Alicia Clean Monster wrote: »

The original comments calling her a dyke etc are probably what they refer to. AFAIK all she said was that Islam was a **** religion in her opinion and the Koran was full of hate.

No, the investigation of hate speech was about what Mila said about Islam

The scenario was she puts her pop tune on Instagram. A lad starts to proposition her sexually, repeatedly. She tells him to feck off, plus she is lesbian. He repeatedly calls her a filthy French whore, a dirty dyke etc, and he mentions he is Muslim. She says I hate ALL religions, your religions is sh1t to me etc, fairly mouthy stuff in fairness but she has just been called a dirty dyke and a filthy whore. She emphasises that she is not racist, she feels no racist hate, but that she is allowed to say her opinions on any religion as one cannot be racist against a religion. In response to her response she gets HUNDREDS of death and rape threats, she says hundeds every 2 minutes, and she is doxxed. Home, school address etc. People post that she is to be attacked, raped and murdered. At that point the police go to her school and advise her to go into hiding, and advise her parents about security. Her comments are to be investigated as hate speech.
In France. In 2020.

One eyed Jack · 25-01-2020 2:00pm

TomSweeney wrote: »

I nearly choked when I read the last line of the article - at least the free article
"Prosecutors are investigating 2 crimes - the 1st the validity of the threats of rape and murder, the 2nd whether the original comments amount to hate speech

Absolutely despicable.
I wonder what crime the "liberals" will be pushing for here ??? hmm..

As far as I’m aware, neither liberals, conservatives or progressives are pushing for anything here. The article you’re quoting directly from indicates that prosecutors are investigating whether or not the original comments amount to hate speech! There are no blasphemy laws either in France or Ireland so the opening post trying to make a point about blasphemy laws is just... strange, to be honest.

TomSweeney wrote: »

Now back to our OP's original scenario - so would they be even looking at "hate speech" if this anti religious talk was directed toward the RCC ???

LIKE F*UCK THEY WOULD!!

It’s unlikely that the DPP would be looking at whether or not something said against Catholicism in Ireland amounted to hate speech, simply because it is unlikely to offend anyone. That’s why when the goon with a plastic bag on his head referred to “haunted bread” on the Late Late Show, trying to appear edgy and provoke a reaction, nobody really gave a shìte, leaving him I’d imagine, somewhat disappointed.

“Muh freedom of expression” doesn’t mean people have the right to behave like inconsiderate assholes. That applies to everyone, in a democratic society.

Gynoid · 25-01-2020 2:12pm

Abdallah Zekri who is a senior delegate of the CFCM, a public body set up by Macron to liaise directly with government on Islamic matters responded to the Mila case

"Je dis que cette fille, elle sait très bien ce qu'elle fait, a-t-il notamment déclaré. Qui sème le vent récolte la tempête."
A deux reprises, Zekri a rappelé qu'il était "contre le fait qu'on menace [Mila] de mort", avant d'enchaîner dans la foulée sur la responsabilité de l'adolescente, accusée d'avoir "créé une situation" : "Cette fille, elle sait ce qu'elle a dit. Elle a pris ses responsabilités. Qu'elle critique les religions, je suis d'accord, mais d'insulter et tout ce qui s'ensuit… Maintenant, elle assume les conséquences de ce qu'elle a dit."

Basically he is saying she knew what she was doing, she is responsible and must bear the consequences.
This is not the way of a civil secular society.

One eyed Jack · 25-01-2020 2:28pm

Gynoid wrote: »

Basically he is saying she knew what she was doing, she is responsible and must bear the consequences.
This is not the way of a civil secular society.

I disagree, it absolutely is the way of a civil secular society that when someone broadcasts on a public medium their opinion that all religions are shìt, they must bear the consequences of their actions, as only they are responsible for their actions.

Everyone in any society is responsible for their actions, and in any civil secular society, there is an onus on the State to protect people’s right to freedom of religion as well as people’s right freedom of expression. Of course people who abuse those rights to cause offence should bear the consequences of their actions.

Gynoid · 25-01-2020 2:30pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I disagree, it absolutely is the way of a civil secular society that when someone broadcasts on a public medium their opinion that all religions are shìt, they must bear the consequences of their actions, as only they are responsible for their actions.

Everyone in any society is responsible for their actions, and in any civil secular society, there is an onus on the State to protect people’s right freedom of religion as well as people’s right freedom of expression. Of course people who abuse those rights to cause offence should bear the consequences of their actions.

Yes, I already understood you feel she should bear the consequences of her death and rape threats

MMXX · 25-01-2020 2:31pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I disagree, it absolutely is the way of a civil secular society that when someone broadcasts on a public medium their opinion that all religions are shìt, they must bear the consequences of their actions, as only they are responsible for their actions.

Everyone in any society is responsible for their actions, and in any civil secular society, there is an onus on the State to protect people’s right to freedom of religion as well as people’s right freedom of expression. Of course people who abuse those rights to cause offence should bear the consequences of their actions.

I don't know Jack, I can't help but feel the angry, seething online mob of young men threatening rape, and death on somebody expressing an opinion - are in the wrong...

Je Suis Mila

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