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Je Suis Mila

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    #62
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    MMXX wrote: »
    Two things can be true at the same time. Just because America is the most outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt nation on the earth - doesn't mean that Islam is not the most dangerous religion. It wasn't George Washington that wrote the Koran.

    Does it mean all Christian people are outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt by virtue of sharing much the same religious 'principles'?

    Look, Muslim bashing thread. Yawn. Same jaded illogical gripes.


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    #63
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Gynoid wrote: »
    *A 16 year old girl from Cork was having the craic online and posted a video of herself singing. She is a lesbian and wants to be a pop star. She got some pretty nasty sexual comments back from a young lad and when she rebuffed him he publicly called her a dirty Irish whore, a dirty dyke, and so on. He then said he was a Catholic. The girl responded by saying I hate all religions, Catholicism is full of hate, I have no time for any of it, your priests rape children, your nuns kill babies.

    The internet went mad. Some lads went online and published the girls name, address and where she goes to school. Hundreds if not thousands of homophobic and misogynistic threats were posted online against her, calling for her to be hunted down, raped, attacked and killed. Really vile stuff.

    The local cops visited the girl in school and told her to leave and to go immediately into hiding. They told her family to be careful of their security. There are efforts being made now to find those who have threatened her with death. She says she has nothing against any type of people, she just really hates religion, and that she speaks her mind and should be allowed to do so.

    Terrible thing to happen. Sure, she could have been less crude, but she is a stroppy fiery girl and she does not like creeps perving on her, she does not like homophobic attacks on her and she also does not like religion, like many before her.









    *This did not really happen in Cork.

    But it did really happen elsewhere, the girl is French, the boy said he is a Muslim. I think it is just as bad as if the fictional scenario happened. Do you?


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/french-teenager-in-hiding-after-insulting-islam-online-0vl5hrs0m
    You're quite articulate for someone posting this sort of nonsense.


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    #64
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Does it mean all Christian people are outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt by virtue of sharing much the same religious 'principles'?

    No. But some are. Presumably you do not censor yourself or others when it comes to attacking those (Christians? Mormons? Whatever..) whose ideologies you disagree with.

    And how would you feel if after you condemned, oh say Trump, for example, (I would say you have been incensed by Trump on the odd occasion) for his religion or politics, the other parties to the discussion divulged your name, address, place of work and incited others to rape and murder you.
    Would you be happy enough to go into hiding and be told that those who had publicly called for your rape and murder would be dealt with should they attack you.

    I do not understand your levels of equivocation. Bizarre to me.


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    #65
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Is the Koran full of hate? I don't know much about it.

    Saudi Arabia has been exporting a violent and regressive form of Islam for decades now. The Sheiks there are more to blame than anyone for the level of radicalisation of muslims.


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    #66
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Alicia Clean Monster wrote: »
    You're quite articulate for someone posting this sort of nonsense.

    Gosh, I know. It is tricky when the person you disagree with is not slurring moronically at you and spraying you with their spittle. Oh well. A little cognitive dissonance for you to warm you for the weekend. :)


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    #67
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Gynoid wrote: »
    No. But some are. Presumably you do not censor yourself or others when it comes to attacking those (Christians? Mormons? Whatever..) whose ideologies you disagree with.

    And how would you feel if after you condemned, oh say Trump, for example, (I would say you have been incensed by Trump on the odd occasion) for his religion or politics, the other parties to the discussion divulged your name, address, place of work and incited others to rape and murder you.
    Would you be happy enough to go into hiding and be told that those who had publicly called for your rape and murder would be dealt with should they attack you.

    I do not understand your levels of equivocation. Bizarre to me.

    Again, some people engage in illegal activities. They are held to account.
    I cant help but think you have an issue with all Muslims as you say not all but then go on to speak like it is all.
    Be clear and honest.
    What is it that I'm saying that leads you to ask if I'm okay with criminal behaviour?


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    #68
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Gosh, I know.

    So you agree that most people who post stuff like this seem a bit thick. Cool.

    I've never encountered the sort of double standard about Islam and christianity you allude to. I suspect it's mainly imaginary.


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    #69
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Again, some people engage in illegal activities. They are held to account.
    I cant help but think you have an issue with all Muslims as you say not all but then go on to speak like it is all.
    Be clear and honest.
    What is it that I'm saying that leads you to ask if I'm okay with criminal behaviour?

    You are projecting your own bigotry onto me. I have a couple of dear Muslim friends, I have studied and appreciated a reasonable amount of mystical Islam as comparative religion is a strong interest of mine, I am actually a fair minded and kind person. Not what you seem to imagine at all. What I see in terms of some of the aspects of Islam as they evolve in the Middle East and now in Europe frightens me, such as this death threat to a girl expressing herself. It represents the very worst possible manifestations of an unreformed uneducated backward fanatical fundamentalistic medieval cult which is dangerous and has no place in a modern culture. And there are many good Muslims - writers, poets, politicians, etc - who are brave and willing enough to call out the backward evil happenings that occur supposedly in the name of Islam in these times, so I have those people's experience and opinions to trust for back up.


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    #70
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRbq63r7rys


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    #71
    Granny15
    Registered Users Posts: 1,129 ✭✭✭Granny15


    Gynoid wrote: »
    *A 16 year old girl from Cork was having the craic online and posted a video of herself singing. She is a lesbian and wants to be a pop star. She got some pretty nasty sexual comments back from a young lad and when she rebuffed him he publicly called her a dirty Irish whore, a dirty dyke, and so on. He then said he was a Catholic. The girl responded by saying I hate all religions, Catholicism is full of hate, I have no time for any of it, your priests rape children, your nuns kill babies.

    The internet went mad. Some lads went online and published the girls name, address and where she goes to school. Hundreds if not thousands of homophobic and misogynistic threats were posted online against her, calling for her to be hunted down, raped, attacked and killed. Really vile stuff.

    The local cops visited the girl in school and told her to leave and to go immediately into hiding. They told her family to be careful of their security. There are efforts being made now to find those who have threatened her with death. She says she has nothing against any type of people, she just really hates religion, and that she speaks her mind and should be allowed to do so.

    Terrible thing to happen. Sure, she could have been less crude, but she is a stroppy fiery girl and she does not like creeps perving on her, she does not like homophobic attacks on her and she also does not like religion, like many before her.









    *This did not really happen in Cork.

    But it did really happen elsewhere, the girl is French, the boy said he is a Muslim. I think it is just as bad as if the fictional scenario happened. Do you?


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/french-teenager-in-hiding-after-insulting-islam-online-0vl5hrs0m

    This is a poor attempt to incite hatred towards immigrants / Muslims. The whole thread is a string of verbal diiahorria with you verbally masterbating with yourself about your poorly disguised hatred. Pathetic really


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    #72
    MMXX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭MMXX


    Matt Barrett wrote: »
    Does it mean all Christian people are outrageously aggressive, oil-thirsty, morally bankrupt by virtue of sharing much the same religious 'principles'?

    Look, Muslim bashing thread. Yawn. Same jaded illogical gripes.
    No, we all know that the Christians are not like that. But that's the difference isn't it? America doesn't go to war, nor invade countries, nor drop bombs - in the name of God. It's about power, control and dominance. Terrorist attacks committed by Muslims, in contrast - are indeed carried out in the name of God. There is a big difference.

    That is not 'Muslim bashing' - THIS is not 'Muslim bashing', that's not what this is. This is the very reason I was reluctant to post on this thread. I wonder if it was your daughter, or sister - threatened with rape, and death - by a seething, online mob - would you be so... diplomatic. Or if they, God forbid - went to a f***ing Ariana Grande concert - and got blown to pieces, in the name of Islam - by a man shouting 'God is Great', would you be able to... overlook, what religion he happened to belong to? Would it not be important? Would it have no relevance?

    Maybe it is important? Maybe it is relevant? Maybe THIS is NOT, 'Muslim Bashing'?


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    #73
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    meeeeh wrote: »
    let's not pretend that nonmuslims don't threaten women with all sorts of violence.
    Nobody here is pretending that.


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    #74
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I think this was a very telling thread. We have the usual suspects coming along and immediately calling it a "muslim-bashing" thread while the original poster and various other posters explained in detail that there was no hatred towards Muslims but rather a hatred for the fact that any criticism of Islam was immediately defended by certain posters and certain sections of society and deemed as some attack or some sort of vilification.

    There is no Muslim bashing here. There is a bit of questioning of the public perception of daring to critique Islam and their extremist followers reaction to that criticism. Yet somehow, that alone is tantamount to being anti Muslim.

    It's beyond parody at this stage.


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    #75
    Raconteuse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭Raconteuse


    Recently saw an interview with Salman Rushdie about the fatwah declared on him. A nightmare for him.


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    #76
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    it's a pity though, if it had've been about the girl the thread might have taken off, we could have gotten 10 or 12 pages out of it at this stage, as it turns out we skipped the foreplay and blew our load too soon...

    Basically.

    Could have been a really interesting thread but how it was framed was a bit obvious.


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    #77
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Every religion has assholes.


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    #78
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Gynoid wrote: »
    There is not a week goes past that I do not read equally strident views on boards about other religions. Is the expression of those opinions all the poor decisions of very young people, or do people feel on boards feel free to express themselves however vehemently without fear of death and rape threat?


    I have no doubt if Boards were as big as Instagram, there’d be far more attention drawn to someone inciting hatred of Christians, and I have no doubt that there would be some people would make death threats and trip over each other to “up the game” so to speak, making as vile comments as they like posting the first thing that comes into their heads.

    I get your point that you don’t want blasphemy laws, but if people assume the right to freedom of expression is the right to express themselves however they like, then they shouldn’t be surprised that everyone has that right, or nobody has that right. It’s double standards to suggest that one group of people can say what they like about another group of people, and the other group of people do not have the same right to express themselves as they wish!

    You don’t want any sacred cows except the ones you agree with. My view is that freedom of expression does not imply freedom from consequences or freedom from taking responsibility for one’s actions. It never has. I don’t believe anyone should have the freedom to behave like an arsehole and then expect to be protected. That applies irrespective of any gender or sex or age or religion or any of the rest of it, whatever their beliefs are about other people.

    The French police in this particular case have opened two separate investigations - one into whether or not the teenager was inciting hatred, the other into the death threats which she received. By framing it in an Irish context I think your point was almost lost as there isn’t anything like the attitude towards Catholics who are a majority in Irish society as there is towards Muslims who are a minority in France.


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    #79
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    One eyed Jack wrote: »

    I get your point that you don’t want anti-blasphemy laws, but if people assume the right to freedom of expression is the right to express themselves however they like, then they shouldn’t be surprised that everyone has that right, or nobody has that right. It’s double standards to suggest that one group of people can say what they like about another group of people, and the other group of people do not have the same right to express themselves as they wish!

    You don’t want any sacred cows except the ones you agree with. My view is that freedom of expression does not imply freedom from consequences or freedom from taking responsibility for one’s actions. It never has. I don’t believe anyone should have the freedom to behave like an arsehole and then expect to be protected. That applies irrespective of any gender or sex or age or religion or any of the rest of it, whatever their beliefs are about other people.

    .

    Freedom of speech is circumscribed in civilised democracies as anyone knows. You cannot depict child abuse*. You cannot make death threats. You cannot incite to violence such as rape. These sort of sensible nuanced exceptions. It is not that hard. Any argument that says if you want free speech you gotta support letting absolutely anything be said or shown falls under several logical fallacies.

    (* Note since November 2019 Twitter changed their terms of service to permit users to discuss and post openly about their sexual attraction to children. Yup.)


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    #80
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Freedom of speech is circumscribed in civilised democracies as anyone knows. You cannot depict child abuse*. You cannot make death threats. You cannot incite to violence such as rape. These sort of sensible nuanced exceptions. It is not that hard. Any argument that says if you want free speech you gotta support letting absolutely anything be said or shown falls under several logical fallacies.

    (* Note since November 2019 Twitter changed their terms of service to permit users to discuss and post openly about their sexual attraction to children. Yup.)


    That wasn’t the argument I was making. The point I’m making is that what is circumscribed under laws regarding freedom of expression is generally considered offensive to public morals or likely to incite hatred against a particular group in any democratic society.

    That’s why in an Irish context, nobody really gives a hoot about anyone saying whatever they like about Catholics, whereas if they were to say whatever they like about Muslims, it’s not the same thing, it’s a completely different scenario. It’s why a person can say what they like about the unemployed, but may find themselves in trouble for saying what they like about travellers.

    There are plenty of sensible, nuanced exceptions I can think of, and the point I’m making is that in a democracy, nobody should be exempt from having to abide by those standards. It’s double standards to suggest that any one group should have the freedom to say what they like about another group and then claim that they are the victim when that group retaliate.


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    #81
    Gynoid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭Gynoid


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    That wasn’t the argument I was making. The point I’m making is that what is circumscribed under laws regarding freedom of expression is generally considered offensive to public morals or likely to incite hatred against a particular group in any democratic society.

    That’s why in an Irish context, nobody really gives a hoot about anyone saying whatever they like about Catholics, whereas if they were to say whatever they like about Muslims, it’s not the same thing, it’s a completely different scenario. It’s why a person can say what they like about the unemployed, but may find themselves in trouble for saying what they like about travellers.

    There are plenty of sensible, nuanced exceptions I can think of, and the point I’m making is that in a democracy, nobody should be exempt from having to abide by those standards. It’s double standards to suggest that any one group should have the freedom to say what they like about another group and then claim that they are the victim when that group retaliate.

    Okay. Blasphemy laws for Jack then. Specifically with respect to Islam. Specifically in European countries. Cool. No worries.


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    #82
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Gynoid wrote: »
    Okay. Blasphemy laws for Jack then. Specifically with respect to Islam. Specifically in European countries. Cool. No worries.


    And don’t forget blasphemy laws for Gynoid, specifically with respect to people shooting their mouth off and thinking they can say whatever they like, anywhere in the world. Cool.

    I won’t be too bothered by whatever happens to those people, I have absolutely no concern for them whatsoever. They imagine they should be exempt from laws which apply to everyone in a democratic society, they shouldn’t be surprised to meet their equivalent in other people. The law doesn’t let them fight it out amongst themselves because someone is bound to get hurt, and the law is there to attempt to prevent that from happening. I can’t say I’d care all that much if it did tbh. People who behave like arseholes shouldn’t expect to be protected by society.


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    #83
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    You'd have to admire islam for the absolute mentally deranged nutters it creates, morons who think a 16 year old deserves to be raped and beaten for speaking out against their bullshít religion, it shows the true face of muslims/islam and its intolerance of western society, wait until they start becoming majority in European capital cities and start getting elected into positions of power, fun times ahead for women and homosexuals if they get their way


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    #84
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Still waters wrote: »
    You'd have to admire islam for the absolute mentally deranged nutters it creates, morons who think a 16 year old deserves to be raped and beaten for speaking out against their bullshít religion, it shows the true face of muslims/islam and its intolerance of western society, wait until they start becoming majority in European capital cities and start getting elected into positions of power, fun times ahead for women and homosexuals if they get their way
    It's Wahhabism, a movement within Islam.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

    You've probably met quite a lot of Muslim people. You've probably met few if any Wahhabi. Most Muslim people you've met will probably be on the same page as you about this stuff - except of course for attributing it to Islam overall.


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    #85
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Good twist op..

    I read your post and wondered why (a) people didn't bash the boy for being Catholic, as that's the trendy thing to do in Ireland and (b) why the police overreacted so badly.

    Your post only made sense when you mentioned the Muslims. Obviously #NotAllMuslims... But Islam has a special attraction for the more savage and toxic elements of African and Middle Eastern culture.


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    #86
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Still waters wrote: »
    You'd have to admire islam for the absolute mentally deranged nutters it creates, morons who think a 16 year old deserves to be raped and beaten for speaking out against their bullshít religion, it shows the true face of muslims/islam and its intolerance of western society


    Islam doesn’t create absolutely mentally deranged nutters and morons who think a 16 year old deserves to be raped and beaten for “speaking out against their bullshìt religion”. It doesn’t “show the true face of Islam and it’s intolerance of western society” either. Mentally deranged nutters and morons with some rather funky ideas for other people who are different to them in some way exist throughout all societies and cultures across the world and throughout history. It’s not Islam is the cause, it’s people.

    Still waters wrote: »
    wait until they start becoming majority in European capital cities and start getting elected into positions of power, fun times ahead for women and homosexuals if they get their way


    You say that like Western society isn’t doing and hasn’t done a bang-up job of it throughout history without any need of assistance from Islam :pac:


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    #87
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    Alicia Clean Monster wrote: »
    It's Wahhabism, a movement within Islam.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

    You've probably met quite a lot of Muslim people. You've probably met few if any Wahhabi. Most Muslim people you've met will probably be on the same page as you about this stuff - except of course for attributing it to Islam overall.

    Its the extremists i was specifically talking about, i know a few muslims all lovely people no different than anyone else, but essentially its islam that brain washes these nutters and lack of intelligence or education seems to give them a hers mentality where they see its ok to call for the rape of a child


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    #88
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    One eyed Jack wrote: »





    You say that like Western society isn’t doing and hasn’t done a bang-up job of it throughout history without any need of assistance from Islam :pac:

    Good comparison :pac:


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    #89
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    Still waters wrote: »
    Its the extremists i was specifically talking about, i know a few muslims all lovely people no different than anyone else, but essentially its islam that brain washes these nutters and lack of intelligence or education seems to give them a hers mentality where they see its ok to call for the rape of a child
    No it's Wahhabism, a sect within Islam that is being actively propagated internationally. It's essentially weaponized religion. The video I posted earlier is a very well known and excellent BBC documentary that dissects the phenomenon.


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    #90
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 23,695 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Still waters wrote: »
    Its the extremists i was specifically talking about, i know a few muslims all lovely people no different than anyone else, but essentially its islam that brain washes these nutters and lack of intelligence or education seems to give them a hers mentality where they see its ok to call for the rape of a child


    Freudian slip? :pac:


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    #91
    Still waters
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭Still waters


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Freudian slip? :pac:

    Is it? or did the redefine the meaning of freudian slip, I'm on my phone so predictive text is a bitch sometimes, but it gives a good indication to the mentality of the type of poster you are


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