Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

amandstu · 29-11-2018 1:51pm

Penn wrote: »

I think it's very telling that they waited until after Trump submitted his written answers to Mueller's questions (especially considering how long it took them to even get to that stage) before pulling the plea deal from Manafort for lying to them.

I took months for Trump to work out the arrangement with Mueller for how they would answer the questions (whether it was going to be an interview, questions pre-submitted with no follow-ups, written answers to all or some etc). If Manafort and his team were passing info and answers to Trump's team, it could have made Trump align his answers with Manafort's. It's possibly the only reason Trump and his team felt safe submitting answers to Mueller's questions at all was because they thought their answers wouldn't conflict with Manafort's and wouldn't incriminate Trump.

But now that Trump's answers were submitted, Manafort is no use now. Mueller knows he's been lying and feeding info to Trump, and now Trump has possibly perjured himself in his submitted answers. Plus Mueller can bring it all public through Manafort's sentencing for violating his plea deal by lying, thereby bypassing Whitaker.

I really hope this all turns out to be true. Regardless of what happens after, it's pure genius in action.

If it is anyway true ,is this a ploy that has been played before?Have we any legal professionals on this thread who would be able to say?

If it is an established ploy ,how did Trump's legal team not see it coming or run rings around it?

If it is a new ploy,(and has in fact been played) then my estimation of the Mueller Heavi team may have to go up.

Water John · 29-11-2018 2:02pm

It'll be like two school lads handing up the same wrong answer to the maths sum.
The teacher has little to prove.

looksee · 29-11-2018 2:38pm

Tweet two days ago: November 27th:

The now $30,000,000 Witch Hunt continues and they’ve got nothing but ruined lives.

Today

After wasting more than $40,000,000 (is that possible?), it has proven only one thing-there was NO Collusion with Russia.

Shocking inflation!

duploelabs · 29-11-2018 2:43pm

Water John wrote: »

It'll be like two school lads handing up the same wrong answer to the maths sum.
The teacher has little to prove.

Funnily enough, I was explaining the situation to a mate last night and used the same analogy, except it was identical essays

duploelabs · 29-11-2018 2:44pm

looksee wrote: »

Tweet two days ago: November 27th:

Today

Shocking inflation!

He went from 30,000 jobs to millions of jobs, when describing the cost of the Saudi deal

DrumSteve · 29-11-2018 2:48pm

duploelabs wrote: »

He went from 30,000 jobs to millions of jobs, when describing the cost of the Saudi deal

He just says things, there is no real thought behind it once they sound good to him.

everlast75 · 29-11-2018 2:49pm

looksee wrote: »

Tweet two days ago: November 27th:

Today

Shocking inflation!

1) He should note how much it has cost in security to have him golf every damn day

2) Mueller has pulled in more money than it has expended. They are running on a surplus

3) Every.Single.Time. he mentions a figure or a number, it is inherently wrong.

Incredible how many JDA he has - drain the swamp indeed...

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1068134986430087168

mcmoustache · 29-11-2018 3:06pm

32 people in a JDA? Sounds an awful lot like a criminal conspiracy to me.

everlast75 · 29-11-2018 3:11pm

Breaking news..

https://twitter.com/GStephanopoulos/status/1068143172524609538

everlast75 · 29-11-2018 3:29pm

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1068149041467412486

So Cohen is going to come clean in relation to Trump Tower Moscow!!!!!!

I wonder if he will confirm that disputed trip to Prague mentioned in the Steele dossier....

mcmoustache · 29-11-2018 3:37pm

Mueller is charging people for lying to congress? A lot of people should be getting worried now.

Tell me how · 29-11-2018 3:43pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Mueller is charging people for lying to congress? A lot of people should be getting worried now.

This has the potential of turn in to a massive house of cards scenario way bigger than Watergate.

I wonder will it? In ten years time will we be watching films about the collapse of a government after collusion with a foreign power.

I fear that 'America' will decide that it cannot take the embarrassment of the full goings on being exposed globally and it's infrastructure, political, judicial, intelligence and diplomatic will collectively try to bring it to a head with some token judgements and claims that everything has been accounted for while it has been swept under the carpet.

Captain Obvious · 29-11-2018 3:44pm

looksee wrote: »

Tweet two days ago: November 27th:

Today

Shocking inflation!

Collusion with Russia was one of the first things proven.

Professor Moriarty · 29-11-2018 3:45pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Mueller is charging people for lying to congress? A lot of people should be getting worried now.

Whitaker is the worst ever AG. Can't even halt a witch hunt. Sad!

mcmoustache · 29-11-2018 3:55pm

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Whitaker is the worst ever AG. Can't even halt a witch hunt. Sad!

We can laugh but Whitaker is an amateur who is only in the job because of loyalty to Trump. The DOJ is full of careerists and professionals. Not to mention, Mueller and his team knew well that Trump would pull such a move although they probably expected him to find someone more effective. An amateur like Whitaker is no match for an organisation full of professionals.

Professor Moriarty · 29-11-2018 3:57pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

We can laugh but Whitaker is an amateur who is only in the job because of loyalty to Trump. The DOJ is full of careerists and professionals. Not to mention, Mueller and his team knew well that Trump would pull such a move although they probably expected him to find someone more effective. An amateur like Whitaker is no match for an organisation full of professionals.

If things unravel like it's beginning to look they might, then watch the likes of Whitaker abandon ship at the speed of light. He might be out of his depth but he's not a fool.

dr.fuzzenstein · 29-11-2018 4:00pm

Usually by now a newly registered member would come on this thread and tell us all about Trump's glorious achievements and how well he's doing, apropos of nothing...

Stallingrad · 29-11-2018 4:18pm

...must quell feeling of optimism...

everlast75 · 29-11-2018 4:28pm

For the real nerds..

here is the plea agreement..

https://www.justice.gov/file/1115566/download

mcmoustache · 29-11-2018 4:33pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Usually by now a newly registered member would come on this thread and tell is all about Trump's glorious achievements and how well he's doing, apropos of nothing...

I think that a lot of them have given up the ghost. The evidence is starting to get overwhelming.

It's funny when you think about the events of the past few years. Every new piece of evidence has been consistent with the theory that Trump was in bed with the Russians and has done what he can to obstruct justice since then. Even the Steele dossier is shaping up to have been quite accurate at this point.

On the other hand, the various narratives put forward by Trump fans have kept falling apart. One fan has conceded that there probably was collusion between Russians and members of the campaign but that Trump wouldn't have known about it so that's progress, I guess.

One thing that this has confirmed to me is that the so called "Fake News" media has been orders of magnitude more accurate than their mainstream right-wing counterparts. What I have learned from WaPo, NYT, BI, The Atlantic and other excellent publications has turned to agree well with reality. Had I been getting my news from FOX, Breitbart, Daily Caller etc, my information would be so unreliable that I'd probably be consistently making a tit of myself on line.

But then again, it should have been obvious that publications who compete on their accuracy and reputations and who have editorial standards in place to minimise mistakes would be more accurate than publications that exist only to confuse and instil fear in their audience.

Tell me how · 29-11-2018 4:38pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

I think that a lot of them have given up the ghost. The evidence is starting to get overwhelming.

It's funny when you think about the events of the past few years. Every new piece of evidence has been consistent with the theory that Trump was in bed with the Russians and has done what he can to obstruct justice since then. Even the Steele dossier is shaping up to have been quite accurate at this point.

On the other hand, the various narratives put forward by Trump fans have kept falling apart. One fan has conceded that there probably was collusion between Russians and members of the campaign but that Trump wouldn't have known about it so that's progress, I guess.

One thing that this has confirmed to me is that the so called "Fake News" media has been orders of magnitude more accurate than their mainstream right-wing counterparts. What I have learned from WaPo, NYT, BI, The Atlantic and other excellent publications has turned to agree well with reality. Had I been getting my news from FOX, Breitbart, Daily Caller etc, my information would be so unreliable that I'd probably be consistently making a tit of myself on line.

But then again, it should have been obvious that publications who compete on their accuracy and reputations and who have editorial standards in place to minimise mistakes would be more accurate than publications that exist only to confuse and instil fear in their audience.

Agree, but even talking all that in to account.

If Trump was to run for President right now, I still think he could come close to winning.
The Democrats have been very weak in unearthing viable alternatives.

In the last week, I've read that Hillary is considering another attempt and also that John Kerry (74 years old) is also mulling over running in 2020 by which time he will obviously be 76.

ECO_Mental · 29-11-2018 4:53pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Agree, but even talking all that in to account.

If Trump was to run for President right now, I still think he could come close to winning.
The Democrats have been very weak in unearthing viable alternatives.

In the last week, I've read that Hillary is considering another attempt and also that John Kerry (74 years old) is also mulling over running in 2020 by which time he will obviously be 76.

Beto O'Rourke....;) he's yer man, watch this space heard it here first

DrumSteve · 29-11-2018 4:57pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Agree, but even talking all that in to account.

If Trump was to run for President right now, I still think he could come close to winning.
The Democrats have been very weak in unearthing viable alternatives.

In the last week, I've read that Hillary is considering another attempt and also that John Kerry (74 years old) is also mulling over running in 2020 by which time he will obviously be 76.

I think Hillary running against Trump would be a bad idea; although it would be hilarious, you would probably invigorate the GOP base beyond measure.

I'd imagine the Dems will go with one of O'Rourke/Harris/Booker though Biden could be an outside bet. I'd pay PPV to watch the debate between him and Trump.

everlast75 · 29-11-2018 4:57pm

Tell me how wrote: »

Agree, but even talking all that in to account.

If Trump was to run for President right now, I still think he could come close to winning.
The Democrats have been very weak in unearthing viable alternatives.

In the last week, I've read that Hillary is considering another attempt and also that John Kerry (74 years old) is also mulling over running in 2020 by which time he will obviously be 76.

I would respectfully, and utterly, disagree with you.

BTW - does the timeline show that Trump was still trying to make a deal with Russia after he was briefed on their attempts to interfere with the election?

Tell me how · 29-11-2018 4:58pm

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Beto O'Rourke....;) he's yer man, watch this space heard it here first

He did lose in Texas. Granted a red state but I suspect the American electorate might be swayed by claims of 'loser' all over the media. The GOP would even hang Ted Cruz out to dry by saying anyone should have beaten him.

Tell me how · 29-11-2018 5:06pm

everlast75 wrote: »

I would respectfully, and utterly, disagree with you.

I'd be happy for you to convince me I'm wrong.

He can rely on 40% of the vote straight out the gate. So too can the Democrat on the other side of course.

But, I wouldn't put it past them to manipulate things to influence the population. Things such as threat of terrorism, international conflict, immigration can get heavy news coverage at the whisper of a threat. Look at him sending the army to protect the country against the caravan before the mid-terms.
He has two very strong media drivers who will support him in Fox and the NRA (even though they aren't a media outlet).

I hope I am wrong but I was wrong in thinking there was no way he'd win in 2016 and as I said above, I don't think the democrats are setting a sufficient example of an alternative yet.

mcmoustache · 29-11-2018 5:12pm

everlast75 wrote: »

I would respectfully, and utterly, disagree with you.

BTW - does the timeline show that Trump was still trying to make a deal with Russia after he was briefed on their attempts to interfere with the election?

It went on through 2017 so, yeah. Here's a link to the criminal information provided by Mueller. Documentcloud is blocked in work so I can copy and paste the good bits but it is good. It describes the actions of Cohen, Person 1(Trump), Organisation 1(Trump org), Person 2 (Felix Sater) and Person1's family (probably Don Jr).

EDIT: 2017 is when he lied to congress. The lie was that the project stopped in January 2016 when in fact it continued until June of that year.

Penn · 29-11-2018 5:14pm

Trump spoke to press before getting on Air Force One for a trip to Argentina. Some interesting snippets:

Pres Trump calls Michael Cohen “a weak person” at the WH

Per WH pooler today @georgecondon, Trump just claimed he "passed" on the Trump Moscow deal.

President Donald Trump told reporters outside the White House that “Cohen is being a weak person and trying to get a reduced sentence so he’s lying about a project everyone knew about.”

Trump repeatedly says Cohen is lying, but then adds: "Even if he was right, it doesn’t matter because I was allowed to do whatever I wanted during the campaign."

Trump also expresses his sympathy for former campaign chair Paul Manafort while speaking to reporters. “It’s very sad what’s happening to Paul Manafort, he’s being treated very badly,” says Trump. He refused to rule out a pardon for Manafort yesterday.

Trump also said the only reason he hired Michael Cohen and kept him on payroll is because “a long time ago, he did me a favor.”

Source:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2018/nov/29/us-politics-michael-cohen-live-updates

So Cohen is lying, but everyone knew about the deal, Trump passed on the deal and he was allowed to do whatever during the campaign anyway. Trump also only gave Cohen significant and important roles in his campaign and as his personal lawyer because he once did Trump a favour. And Manafort is a good guy and doesn't deserve to be treated like a guilty person after having been found guilty and plead guilty.

Pelvis · 29-11-2018 5:14pm

ECO_Mental wrote: »

Beto O'Rourke....;) he's yer man, watch this space heard it here first

Best suggestion I've heard is a Biden/Beto ticket. They'd kill it. Biden has his age against him but he's in better shape than most 30 year olds!!

DrumSteve · 29-11-2018 5:16pm

Pelvis wrote: »

Best suggestion I've heard is a Biden/Beto ticket. They'd kill it. Biden has his age against him but he's in better shape than most 30 year olds!!

You wont get two white guys on the Dem ticket.

I'd go with Biden/Harris.

Leroy42 · 29-11-2018 5:19pm

Guys, if the noose keeps tightening around Trump at the rate it is, I really don't think it will matter too much who the DNC put up, as the GOP will be in turmoil over it.

Muahahaha · 29-11-2018 5:29pm

Biden V Trump would be box office. Really hope Biden runs as right now he is the only Democrat I could see having a really solid chance against Trump in 2020, especially in the debates.

everlast75 · 29-11-2018 5:32pm

Nobody coming over to the dark side with me, thinking Trump won't be around politically in 2020?

Captain Obvious · 29-11-2018 5:34pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Nobody coming over to the dark side with me, thinking Trump won't be around politically in 2020?

I don't think he'd get the nomination.

DrumSteve · 29-11-2018 5:34pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I don't think he'd get the nomination.

If he chooses to run and the charges haven't dropped at that stage he will 100% get the nom; if he doesn't the GOP will split.

Tell me how · 29-11-2018 5:35pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Nobody coming over to the dark side with me, thinking Trump won't be around politically in 2020?

I had a conversation with someone when he was being inaugurated who wanted to bet that he'd be gone by the end of 2017.

We see a very different narrative around and from a more objective position than many do in the states I reckon.

Penn · 29-11-2018 5:37pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Nobody coming over to the dark side with me, thinking Trump won't be around politically in 2020?

I think staying as President for as long as possible is probably Trump's best chance of staying out of harm's way, as regardless of what Mueller finds or how strong the evidence is, Trump's lawyers will challenge whether a sitting President can be indicted, which will tie it up in the courts and likely all the way up to Supreme Court, and if the SCOTUS goes his way, staying as President will keep him from legal trouble, which could also help him try install people in departments which could lessen or eliminate any punishments he or his family face when he leaves office.

Tell me how · 29-11-2018 5:44pm

Penn wrote: »

I think staying as President for as long as possible is probably Trump's best chance of staying out of harm's way, as regardless of what Mueller finds or how strong the evidence is, Trump's lawyers will challenge whether a sitting President can be indicted, which will tie it up in the courts and likely all the way up to Supreme Court, and if the SCOTUS goes his way, staying as President will keep him from legal trouble, which could also help him try install people in departments which could lessen or eliminate any punishments he or his family face when he leaves office.

That is pretty much what I think his motivations are.
Losing the house will make it difficult for him over the next 2 years because they will try to show how they want to do something about it but I think holding on to the senate will be key for him in surviving at least until the end of this term.

Quin_Dub · 29-11-2018 5:46pm

Slightly off-topic aside..

Turkey seriously trolling Trump with the name change for the street where the US embassy is.

Turkey changes US embassy street name to Malcolm X

Turkey has renamed the street on which the new US embassy will be located after the American black Muslim civil rights campaigner Malcolm X.

The embassy is still being built in the Cukurambar district in Ankara on what was formerly called 1478 street.

Construction contractors BL Harbert have said the new complex is expected to be finished by 2020.

The renaming comes after the Ankara city council decision last month to change the name to Malcolm X Street.

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan promised the late campaigner's daughters that the name of Malcolm X would "live on" in the Turkish capital.

dinorebel · 29-11-2018 5:51pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Nobody coming over to the dark side with me, thinking Trump won't be around politically in 2020?

I have a feeling he wont be around in any capacity.

DrumSteve · 29-11-2018 5:58pm

dinorebel wrote: »

I have a feeling he wont be around in any capacity.

I genuinely wonder what the fall out would be if he resigned and sought asylum in Russia?

mcmoustache · 29-11-2018 6:00pm

Trump/Putin meeting appears to be off and the lawfirm of Alderman Burke that represented Trump for years has been raided by the FBI.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1068181367857397760

I'll add more info on the Alderman Burke stuff when I get it.

https://twitter.com/fspielman/status/1068177373684817923

Pelvis · 29-11-2018 6:08pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

...and the lawfirm of Alderman Burke that represented Trump for years has been raided by the FBI.

Wuuutt

circadian · 29-11-2018 6:15pm

Oh ****. Surely hrs a flight risk now and there's absolutely no truth in cancelling meeting with Putin over Ukraine.

Itssoeasy · 29-11-2018 6:16pm

Pelvis wrote: »

Wuuutt

I know haha. I'd never heard this law firm before I saw that tweet. Oh where will this mess end.

looksee · 29-11-2018 6:19pm

DrumSteve wrote: »

I genuinely wonder what the fall out would be if he resigned and sought asylum in Russia?

They wouldn't have him, when he ceases to be useful he will be laughed out of it.

circadian · 29-11-2018 6:22pm

Am I right in understanding that the IRS are also involved in this raid?

Captain Obvious · 29-11-2018 6:23pm

looksee wrote: »

They wouldn't have him, when he ceases to be useful he will be laughed out of it.

He still has his business and properties.

looksee · 29-11-2018 6:28pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

He still has his business and properties.

I don't think that would guarantee him asylum

BabyCheeses · 29-11-2018 6:29pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Nobody coming over to the dark side with me, thinking Trump won't be around politically in 2020?

I'd say his health has a better chance of removing him than anything else. Republicans are getting what they want through him.

Donald Trump is the President Mark IV (Read Mod Warning in OP)

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