Smear Test Scandal

02-05-2018 6:28pm

jmayo wrote: »

Looking at the time of your posts I am just hoping that your posted this e after being out on the booze and you are not quite as big an assh*le when sober.

Somebody is very much to blame that women such as the very brave Vichy Phelan were not informed very much earlier that their smear tests were incorrect.
That is criminal negligence in my book.

This is our national health service.

This needs to be discussed and people need to shout about this from the rooftops, not bury it as the state and HSE tried to do with a gagging order on one of their victims.

Are you seriously saying this should be "fixed" by the very organisation that has created the mess and the coverup in the first place.

FFS you really must be totally blind drunk if you actually think that the HSE can be relied upon to internally fix itself.

Ahh FFS stop trying to drag this off about gender or sex.

All us males/men have mothers, some have daughters and sisters.
I would say the vast vast majority of men are disgusted and indeed worried that the women in their lives could be subject of this.

I don't care who it was, what sex, race or creed, that made the decision not to inform women that there were problems with the Cervical Screening testing, I think they should be made criminally liable for their inaction that has resulted in unnecessary deaths and pain due to delayed misdiagnosis.

Our health service like a lot of our other national services are a fooking disgrace.

And as always you will get reports, investigative panels and experts, usually followed by some muppets trotting out the line that it is a systemic failure.

No, it is usually a failure of people, not a failure of some system.

Someone or ones made a decision not to inform women that the tests were incorrect and they were at risk of cervical cancer.
And someone or ones made the decision in the first place to go with a lesser test in the US which is more suitable to a shorter testing interval.

It is much like the preceding scandal where some fooking incompetent ar**hole(s) in HSE/Tusla decided that some poor kids had to live with a rapist, even though one poor child had made allegations of rape.

I know some will not like my language, some will see this as a rant and I don't care, but this country is pathetic and we as a people are pathetic that we accept people being continously sacrificed by unfit for institutions and criminally incapable publicly funded staff.

After every one of these scandals there is a public wailing in the media, some mealy mouthed political and public service statements and speeches with assurances that things will be different in the future.

And yet we will be back here again with yet another scandal as sure as Tony O'Brien is jumping a septic ship with a nice little parachute.

If it was just a scandal involving misuse of funds, but no it is scandal involving peoples lives, be it their unnecessary death or the fact they have been consigned to a life of misery and pain.

No rant there' it;s a good post, very good, I agree, and think women of ireland should march about it. i tell ya it affects more women than that bleeding belfast rape trial did ffs..priorities I ask ya!!!, were's all the hashtag SJW patriots now when it matters???? this affects wives, mothers, daughters and by extensions sons, husbands and fathers!!!

Ipso · 02-05-2018 6:35pm

_Dara_ wrote: »

More frequent screening is not necessarily a good thing. Many screening methods for different cancers carry their own significant risks such as exposure to radiation.

Isn't there also a risk of false positive results?

gctest50 · 02-05-2018 6:36pm

More manslaughter :

She came in and she said ‘look you’ve been through a lot, go see a psychologist’, but she (Nicola) said ‘I’m not crazy, I know my body more than anybody’. She was very tenacious, she wouldn’t leave that room until she got what she wanted and she said ‘I’ll go see a psychologist if you bring me in to have a look’.

“She wanted to be checked out, get a scan. They brought her in to have a look around and they saw that the cancer had spread to her ovaries, her stomach and her lymph nodes.”

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/husband-who-lost-wife-to-cervical-cancer-says-consultant-told-her-to-join-a-gym-840542.html

joe40 · 02-05-2018 7:00pm

There may have been many issues with the screening process but the best screening system will still produce false positives.
It is not true to say that the doctors knew she had cancer and decided not to do anything.
She already had the cancer diagnosis and was undergoing treatment when the issue with the initial screening test was discovered. She should have been told though
Obviously if the effectiveness of the screening can be improved it should, and if the management of the system was substandard there should be accountability.
It is not doctors however deliberately letting someone with cancer go untreated

pitifulgod · 02-05-2018 7:14pm

joe40 wrote: »

There may have been many issues with the screening process but the best screening system will still produce false positives.
It is not true to say that the doctors knew she had cancer and decided not to do anything.
She already had the cancer diagnosis and was undergoing treatment when the issue with the initial screening test was discovered. She should have been told though
Obviously if the effectiveness of the screening can be improved it should, and if the management of the system was substandard there should be accountability.
It is not doctors however deliberately letting someone with cancer go untreated

The most substantial issue was that the US company were more prone to errors. However screenings are expected 12 months in the US scenario so that negated the errors. Ireland was doing it every 3 years, as a result, the error issue became a far more substantial issue. If it was annual, it would have negated the error rate.

McCrack · 02-05-2018 7:17pm

joe40 wrote: »

There may have been many issues with the screening process but the best screening system will still produce false positives.
It is not true to say that the doctors knew she had cancer and decided not to do anything.
She already had the cancer diagnosis and was undergoing treatment when the issue with the initial screening test was discovered. She should have been told though
Obviously if the effectiveness of the screening can be improved it should, and if the management of the system was substandard there should be accountability.
It is not doctors however deliberately letting someone with cancer go untreated

I think youre forgetting one critical point

If her smear was read correctly in 2011 she would have commenced treatment and had an excellent prognosis

Instead her life expectancy is months because her treatment was delayed

Anita Blow · 02-05-2018 7:40pm

LirW wrote: »

The problem is that the program was cut so instead of an annual screening you'd only get it every 3 years. You can treat abnormal cells easily once they're found by a simple treatment and chances are high you'll never have problems after it. But the best effect comes with annual screening.
There was talks of increasing the interval to 5 years just a few months ago.

Just on this point- annual screening carries no greater benefit. 3-year screening interval is best practice according to the IARC and is standard in most countries.
It's only annual in some parts of the US (despite the US Preventative Taskforce itself recommending a 3-year interval) because there is a perverse financial incentive to screen more often there.
The talk of increasing to 5 years actually began in Australia as rates of Cervical Cancer have dropped dramatically since introduction of the HPV vaccine and now we're moving towards checking HPV status followed by 5-year screens as cervical cancer is quite rare in someone without HPV.

02-05-2018 7:41pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

ffs...what a week..

Try_harder · 02-05-2018 7:49pm

https://twitter.com/mrjustinmac/status/991750203983257602?s=21

Got to love the leading from the front from the HSE

iamwhoiam · 02-05-2018 7:54pm

I am trying to piece the timeline together . Did someone know that Vicky Phelan had an abnormal smear test result and not inform her of that for a period of time ? Or was her abnormal smear test not diagnosed ?

gctest50 · 02-05-2018 8:11pm

Mr Harris repeated the State would pay the fees involved for any woman who wants a repeat smear test, and whose GP agrees that she needs one, as part of the reassurance process.

He said this guidance will be issued to GPs tomorrow and, once this is done, the information will be published on the website cervicalcheck.ie.

.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/0502/959759-cervicalcheck-reax/

LirW · 02-05-2018 8:19pm

Anita Blow wrote: »

Just on this point- annual screening carries no greater benefit. 3-year screening interval is best practice according to the IARC and is standard in most countries.
It's only annual in some parts of the US (despite the US Preventative Taskforce itself recommending a 3-year interval) because there is a perverse financial incentive to screen more often there.
The talk of increasing to 5 years actually began in Australia as rates of Cervical Cancer have dropped dramatically since introduction of the HPV vaccine and now we're moving towards checking HPV status followed by 5-year screens as cervical cancer is quite rare in someone without HPV.

Austria and Germany do annual screenings at the annual gyn visit every woman should do once they start their menstruation. Their cervical cancer rate is lower than Ireland's. There are a few other EU countries that do annual testing at gynecology doctors.

Anita Blow · 02-05-2018 8:36pm

LirW wrote: »

Austria and Germany do annual screenings at the annual gyn visit every woman should do once they start their menstruation. Their cervical cancer rate is lower than Ireland's. There are a few other EU countries that do annual testing at gynecology doctors.

They would be exceptions. You can read the IARC guidelines here which also show that just 3 EU countries operate an annual screening programme. The majority operate on a 3-5 year basis.

joe40 · 02-05-2018 9:12pm

I may be well out of line here asking this question but if there was a annual system of screening would the uptake go down, so there may be even more early stage abnormal cells missed.
This story is rightly getting a lot of attention, but then there was a reduction in uptake of HPV vaccine which would be even more beneficial than screening if widely accepted.

AlekSmart · 02-05-2018 9:16pm

laserlad2010 wrote: »

Agreed. A process with only one check of a smear rather than the two check which is traditionally done here for cancer diagnoses was destined to run into trouble.

Yesterdays (Tuesday) RTE 1 Drivetime had some rather revealing interviews with eminent Medical Proffessionals,which revealed that Outsourcing was heavily endorsed by then Minister for Health,Ms Harney,who was reported as favouring a more widespread introduction of Outsourcing across the HSE.

Following on from the Outsourcing,some 70 qualified and experienced personnel attached to the Irish Cystology system were surplus to requirements and left the field and,in some cases,the Country.

Now,of course,the HSE find Ireland has no longer the ability to carry out these tests,due to a lack of qualified people.....:mad:

One interesting stat from the interview,was how each Outsourced sample would only recieve 4 minutes of examination from the Cystology technician in the U.S.A.

The HSE's main concern in it's contract was Speed of Response,presumably to provide a veneer of efficiency,which we now know was totally absent.

There is no way that the HSE's CEO should be allowed to Walk away on Pension,from this issue,if necessary,some legal means must be crafted to force him to remain in position until this scandal is fully exlpained and the ramifications of such a wayward fixation with "Outsourcing" are fully admitted to,and acted upon.

This is all about MONEY,and lots of it,with perhaps only Roisin Shorthall having managed to get an inkling of the depth of the scandal.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/chairman-of-us-pharmaceutical-firm-that-put-embattled-hse-boss-on-its-board-hosted-fundraiser-for-varadkar-36866749.html

The chairman of a US firm - which has added the embattled HSE boss, Tony O’Brien, to its board - has hosted a fundraising function for the Taoiseach.

Leo Varadkar defended the Health Minister Simon Harris giving permission to Tony O’Brien to take a board seat on the US pharmaceutical firm, Evofem Biosciences, while Mr O’Brien continues to head the HSE.

And replying to Dáil questions from Roisín Shortall of the Social Democrats, the Taoiseach said it was a matter of public record that the chairman of that US firm,Thomas Lynch, had last year hosted a fundraising event for Mr Varadkar.

Mr Lynch is also chairman of the Ireland East Hospital Group and the Mater Hospital in Dublin as well as chairing the US pharmaceutical firm based in San Diego.

One wonders if Mr O'Brien will be "retiring" from Evofem Biosciences as fast as he will be exiting the HSE ?

The entire thing stinks,but this time we have proof,that people were complaining of the smell right from the beginning,and had the credibility and bravery to resign over the issue...will these people be brought back and given recognition in their own lifetime ?

Enochwasright · 02-05-2018 10:12pm

mazwell wrote: »

I had my first smear test at 25 in England, abnormal cells, follow up and then treatment. I'm immensely thankful for the care I got. I moved home then and got my 3 year test here, all clear, happy out and am due my next in 2019.
After hearing the scandal, and it is a scandal, I'm going to pay privately for an earlier test. Because I and thousands of women just like me are terrified that we have a possibility of being the people who were given false negatives. Therefore potentially shortening our lifespan, making us go through chemo, reducing our quality of life.
If you honestly think that the scandal is that the government might have to pay compensation then I really do think you'd want to have a talk to a professional who teaches cop yourself on lessons

Fair play sister, cannot see how anyone would have any problem with any woman on this island having a reassurance test free of charge at their earliest convenience and any woman who has been dealt a bad hand being compensated to the maximum possible by the state to the highest amount cash, though limited, can help.

Annabella1 · 02-05-2018 10:20pm

If you look at the hard facts...(to date)
3million smears since 2008 few hundred errors
No medical screening is 100%
Big problem is the non disclosure of abnormalities to patients by management
Will this change the culture in the HSE ??

Wanderer78 · 02-05-2018 10:22pm

Annabella1 wrote:

If you look at the hard facts...(to date) 3million smears since 2008 few hundred errors No medical screening is 100% Big problem is the non disclosure of abnormalities to patients by management Will this change the culture in the HSE ??

More than likely not, deep systematic changes needed there but we wouldn't be into such things

_Dara_ · 02-05-2018 11:18pm

Ipso wrote: »

Isn't there also a risk of false positive results?

Yes, absolutely. Over diagnosis is an issue with breast cancer screening. Which also skews the survival stats.

marzic · 02-05-2018 11:47pm

http://stateclaims.ie/ezine/meet-the-sca-director-ciaran-breen/

Now here's a public servant who takes his job seriously... shame it involves dragging dying women through the Courts

AllForIt · 02-05-2018 11:52pm

Can someone tell me why smear tests are provided for by the state in the first place? I mean is this form of cancer particularly high or what? Can I as a guy go to my GP and have a prostate cancer test at any particular time I choose?

Kuva · 03-05-2018 12:07am

Years ago someone asked for a scandal forum to be created on this site for all these sorts of things to put in and viewable at a quick glance.

It didn't happen.

It'd be some list now. All the scumbags involved all walk away rich, no repurcussions.

Someone should look at the bowel screening for men outta curiosity.

Harris is a clueless lad, just passing time doing not alot.

ceadaoin. · 03-05-2018 6:37am

AllForIt wrote: »

Can someone tell me why smear tests are provided for by the state in the first place? I mean is this form of cancer particularly high or what? Can I as a guy go to my GP and have a prostate cancer test at any particular time I choose?

They are provided because the pre cancerous cells are easy to identify and treat and the evidence shows that they reduce deaths from cervical cancer

Re prostate cancer, According to the british cancer society:

Overall, the evidence shows that screening for prostate cancer doesn’t reduce the number of men dying from the disease, but does increase the risk of harms such as overdiagnosis, where slow-growing tumours that wouldn’t cause a man any harm are picked up. It can also miss prostate cancers which did need to be found and treated.

If you’re over 50 you can ask your doctor about the prostate specific antigen (PSA) blood test. Having this test carries risk so if you ask for this test, your doctor will discuss it with you

JMNolan · 03-05-2018 7:19am

marzic wrote: »

http://stateclaims.ie/ezine/meet-the-sca-director-ciaran-breen/

Now here's a public servant who takes his job seriously... shame it involves dragging dying women through the Courts

Oh, is this a new step? Naming people? Perhaps we should look for their home addresses too? Family members perhaps? Why shouldn't the state claims agency defend claims? Are you so blinkered that you think they should pay out on every claim simply based on gender?

Roger_007 · 03-05-2018 8:13am

One thing that is common to all the health scandals that have occurred in this country is that they were all initially caused by inept or incompetent medical practitioners. Yet, the only people who get off scot free from any criticism are those medical people who caused the problem in the first place.
We pay out huge sums of money in compensation to the victims and do not deal with the real problem of medical incompetence. We then pretend to be surprised when the next scandal occurs.

McCrack · 03-05-2018 8:47am

JMNolan wrote: »

Oh, is this a new step? Naming people? Perhaps we should look for their home addresses too? Family members perhaps? Why shouldn't the state claims agency defend claims? Are you so blinkered that you think they should pay out on every claim simply based on gender?

There are far too many instances where the State Claims Agency does not settle cases before trial or does not offer any meaningful settlement forcing people into court and for them to lose their privacy/anonymity as a result for them to then settle the case

Thats wrong

JMNolan · 03-05-2018 9:24am

McCrack wrote: »

There are far too many instances where the State Claims Agency does not settle cases before trial or does not offer any meaningful settlement forcing people into court and for them to lose their privacy/anonymity as a result for them to then settle the case

Thats wrong

Is it though? According to who? Their job is

We provide risk management advice and assistance to State authorities with the aim of reducing future claims and litigation.

Where claims do arise our objective is to manage these claims so as to ensure that the State’s liability and associated expenses are contained at the lowest achievable level.

Are they failing in this?

McCrack · 03-05-2018 9:34am

No I get that they should where appropriate defend claims however and particularly with medical negligence cases they deny liability until the Plaintiff is forced into Court to open their case

Ive seen it many times

_Dara_ · 03-05-2018 10:02am

Roger_007 wrote: »

One thing that is common to all the health scandals that have occurred in this country is that they were all initially caused by inept or incompetent medical practitioners. Yet, the only people who get off scot free from any criticism are those medical people who caused the problem in the first place.
We pay out huge sums of money in compensation to the victims and do not deal with the real problem of medical incompetence. We then pretend to be surprised when the next scandal occurs.

This is true. I met a few doctors during my adventures in getting a diagnosis who I genuinely believe should not be practising medicine.

One who sticks in my mind: a GP I went to the 3.5 years ago. I’m going to spoiler tag my symptoms for the benefit of anyone squeamish.

I had pus and blood oozing from my left nipple. Well what was left of it. I was experiencing severe pain in my lower back, ribs and pelvis. And I MEAN severe. AND I couldn’t walk any distance without being severely out of breath.

The doctor did not even do a manual examination. She glanced at my boob and said “That’s an infection, I’ll give you antibiotics.” I still can’t get over it now. Luckily there was a much more conscientious doctor in the same practice who was concerned. He wasn’t quite sure what was wrong with me but he knew my symptoms and elevated white blood cell count were all wrong for a young woman. He was the one who ordered the scans that finally got me diagnosed.

Two very different doctors in the one practice.

whisky_galore · 03-05-2018 10:04am

If people only put a fraction of the amount of energy campaigning and lobbying to change the clusterfcuk that is the HSE as they do with water, the 8th or potholes, it would have been fixed years ago.

Wanderer78 · 03-05-2018 10:06am

whisky_galore wrote: »

If people only put a fraction of the amount of energy campaigning and lobbying to change the clusterfcuk that is the HSE as they do with water, the 8th or potholes, it would have been fixed years ago.

fair point, but the workings of our health systems is a far more complex beast, im not convinced any country knows how to truly run one

Squatter · 03-05-2018 10:06am

marzic wrote: »

http://stateclaims.ie/ezine/meet-the-sca-director-ciaran-breen/

Now here's a public servant who takes his job seriously... shame it involves dragging dying women through the Courts

Sometimes it's a shame and other times it's a necessary evil.

You and others may want the SCA to function as an ATM, but I don't.

SusieBlue · 03-05-2018 10:12am

whisky_galore wrote: »

If people only put a fraction of the amount of energy campaigning and lobbying to change the clusterfcuk that is the HSE as they do with water, the 8th or potholes, it would have been fixed years ago.

The 8th is a health issue and is not in the same league as the water charges or potholes at all.

neonsofa · 03-05-2018 10:14am

_Dara_ wrote: »

This is true. I met a few doctors during my adventures in getting a diagnosis who I genuinely believe should not be practising medicine.

One who sticks in my mind: a GP I went to the 3.5 years ago. I’m going to spoiler tag my symptoms for the benefit of anyone squeamish.
I had pus and blood oozing from my left nipple. Well what was left of it. I was experiencing severe pain in my lower back, ribs and pelvis. And I MEAN severe. AND I couldn’t walk any distance without being severely out of breath.

The doctor did not even do a manual examination. She glanced at my boob and said “That’s an infection, I’ll give you antibiotics.” I still can’t get over it now. Luckily there was a much more conscientious doctor in the same practice who was concerned. He wasn’t quite sure what was wrong with me but he knew my symptoms and elevated white blood cell count were all wrong for a young woman. He was the one who ordered the scans that finally got me diagnosed.

Two very different doctors in the one practice.

Dara I have had similar experiences with dismissive healthcare professionals. Thankfully in my own case it wasn't with anything anywhere near as serious as your illness, but in terms of the hand waving "oh it's a mild infection, take this". As they begin writing out a prescription for penicillin which im allergic to. Some of them seem to become complacent over time.

I have found they also tend to be dismissive with new parents ( and i do know there are some helicopter parents who create a drama over sniffles but that doesnt mean all of them do so) in my case I was a young parent so they were even more so. It took many arguments and her deteriorating health to have my baby diagnosed and treated years ago due to the dismissive attitude of consultants who seemed to believe it was my ability,or lack thereof, as a parent that was making her sick rather than her actual illness.

I have read your posts here in relation to your illness and you are inspirational to be honest.

whisky_galore · 03-05-2018 10:17am

SusieBlue wrote: »

The 8th is a health issue and is not in the same league as the water charges or potholes at all.

Obviously not everyone has to get an abortion but unless you are very very lucky, everyone has to use the health service.

Wanderer78 · 03-05-2018 10:18am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Obviously not everyone has to get an abortion but unless you are very very lucky, everyone has to use the health service.

critical point, hence the importance of this issue

neonsofa · 03-05-2018 10:20am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Obviously not everyone has to get an abortion but unless you are very very lucky, everyone has to use the health service.

The 8th affects maternity care, which every pregnant woman (and in turn, every newborn in the country) has to use.

_Dara_ · 03-05-2018 10:20am

neonsofa wrote: »

Dara I have had similar experiences with dismissive healthcare professionals. Thankfully in my own case it wasn't with anything anywhere near as serious as your illness, but in terms of the hand waving "oh it's a mild infection, take this". As they begin writing out a prescription for penicillin which im allergic to. Some of them seem to become complacent over time.

I have found they also tend to be dismissive with new parents ( and i do know there are some helicopter parents who create a drama over sniffles but that doesnt mean all of them do so) in my case I was a young parent so they were even more so. It took many arguments and her deteriorating health to have my baby diagnosed and treated years ago due to the dismissive attitude of consultants who seemed to believe it was my ability,or lack thereof, as a parent that was making her sick rather than her actual illness.

I have read your posts here in relation to your illness and you are inspirational to be honest.

I can’t believe they didn’t ask if you had any medication allergies!

That is infuriating about your child. Many older doctors are quite condescending.

SusieBlue · 03-05-2018 10:21am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Obviously not everyone has to get an abortion but unless you are very very lucky, everyone has to use the health service.

It isn't just about abortion.
It affects maternity care for every single pregnant woman, even for wanted pregnancies.
I agree the health service needs improving. But dismissing the 8th to be something as relevant as potholes or the water charges is very wrong.

whisky_galore · 03-05-2018 10:23am

Wanderer78 wrote: »

critical point, hence the importance of this issue

And of course at nearly every HSE fcuk up it's throw the hands up in the air and ah shur God love them, but what can we do? Ah shur no-one is accountable and so on.

And it goes away until the next fcuk up, and the next...

_Puma_ · 03-05-2018 10:31am

If anything the OP just exposes the dregs of humanity our society has been producing lately. Our country is full of these little individuals and more and more we see them walking the corridors of power, the more we have these scandals.

Amirani · 03-05-2018 11:23am

McCrack wrote: »

No I get that they should where appropriate defend claims however and particularly with medical negligence cases they deny liability until the Plaintiff is forced into Court to open their case

Ive seen it many times

In my view it should really be a court that is deciding on significant financial payouts for the State. Vickie Phelan for example; I'd not be in favour of a situation whereby a civil servant can unilaterally award a €2.5m payout to a claimant, it makes much more sense to have a judge make the decision with the a balanced unbiased view of the facts.

Obviously it should be dealt with as sensitively and as quickly as possible to minimise the impact on the victim.

McCrack · 03-05-2018 11:28am

Amirani wrote: »

In my view it should really be a court that is deciding on significant financial payouts for the State. Vickie Phelan for example; I'd not be in favour of a situation whereby a civil servant can unilaterally award a €2.5m payout to a claimant, it makes much more sense to have a judge make the decision with the a balanced unbiased view of the facts.

Obviously it should be dealt with as sensitively and as quickly as possible to minimise the impact on the victim.

The State Claims Agency instruct their own solicitors/Senior Counsel who are experienced and well capable of deciding issues of liability and quantum

Its not usually necessary to have a Judge decide these issues yet time and time again people are forced into the High Court for the defendants to turn around after day one or day two of trial to offer settlement which could have/should have been done before the case got near the steps of Court

Squatter · 03-05-2018 1:03pm

McCrack wrote: »

The State Claims Agency instruct their own solicitors/Senior Counsel who are experienced and well capable of deciding issues of liability and quantum

Its not usually necessary to have a Judge decide these issues yet time and time again people are forced into the High Court for the defendants to turn around after day one or day two of trial to offer settlement which could have/should have been done before the case got near the steps of Court

Of course a thing is that we never get to hear is whether the plaintiffs' well paid counsel have been playing silly buggers until the last moment in order to increase their fees.

jmayo · 03-05-2018 5:33pm

JMNolan wrote: »

Oh, is this a new step? Naming people? Perhaps we should look for their home addresses too? Family members perhaps? Why shouldn't the state claims agency defend claims? Are you so blinkered that you think they should pay out on every claim simply based on gender?

Well if that person was a party to dragging a very sick terminally ill woman into court, forcing her to take the stand for a couple of hours and forcing her to very invasive questioning, forcing her to provide witnesses, and then folding their case the very next day.

They knew they had no case, but yet they persisted.

Well fook him he and all the other bast**ds that were a party to that plan of attack and they can face the glare of publicity.

Or maybe you would like them hidden away like they tried to do with the plaintiff so none of this sad inept saga would reach the light of day. :rolleyes:

If anything all the people responsible for the handling of this whole saga should be named and shamed.
I am tired of people hiding behind the systemic shtye.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

fair point, but the workings of our health systems is a far more complex beast, im not convinced any country knows how to truly run one

Well a lot of countries make a better fist of it than us.

Squatter wrote: »

Sometimes it's a shame and other times it's a necessary evil.

You and others may want the SCA to function as an ATM, but I don't.

No one is demanding it be made an ATM but fair is fair.
This woman is facing unnecessary death.

Squatter wrote: »

Of course a thing is that we never get to hear is whether the plaintiffs' well paid counsel have been playing silly buggers until the last moment in order to increase their fees.

Trust me it wasn't that in this case.
Witnesses were contacted at very short notice to appear because this case was pushed through quickly because of the prognosis for the plaintiff.

But that didn't stop the SCA from trying to put her through the ringer.

Ipso · 03-05-2018 5:46pm

_Puma_ wrote: »

If anything the OP just exposes the dregs of humanity our society has been producing lately. Our country is full of these little individuals and more and more we see them walking the corridors of power, the more we have these scandals.

It also exposes the system and culture that the Irish electorate votes for.

Squatter · 03-05-2018 7:13pm

jmayo wrote: »

No one is demanding it be made an ATM but fair is fair.
This woman is facing unnecessary death.

I wasn't referring specifically to "this woman" I was responding to the general point that marzic had made.

jluv · 03-05-2018 7:14pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am trying to piece the timeline together . Did someone know that Vicky Phelan had an abnormal smear test result and not inform her of that for a period of time ? Or was her abnormal smear test not diagnosed ?

From what I've seen and read. Her 2011 smear came back negative.In 2014 she was experiencing symptoms. While at doctors/hospital she read her file which said that the 2011 smear was a false negative but she hadn't been informed.She told her story on Ray Darcy last Sat night if you have player.
Knowing now how active/proactive a person she is,I feel had she been informed of the false negative sooner then she would have had a better fighting chance.
She herself seems to be encouraging women to continue having cervical checks and that false negatives can occur.In fact she reckons that there was never a better time to have one in this country as no information will be withheld due to the high lighting of her case.

tretorn · 03-05-2018 7:46pm

As I understand it though her test was re examined after she developed cervical cancer, this is normal in all cases where a woman develops cervical cancer after getting the all clear.

No one hid the fact that the cancer had been missed between 2011 and 2014, no one was aware it had been missed until she developed cancer of the cervix. I really dont believe any health board official would hide the fact that someones test was incorrect, they would immediately contact the person and do another smear test and then if a treatment plan was needed the patient would be looked after properly.

I could have a colonoscopy now and be told I am cancer free. I can continue on with my life but develop bowel cancer within six months.If someone was to review the colonoscopy results they may find there was cancer, this doesnt mean anyone is responsible for giving me cancer and I have to accept that humans make errors and some errors cost people their lives.

Is this not basically what happened here.

iamwhoiam · 03-05-2018 7:47pm

jluv wrote: »

From what I've seen and read. Her 2011 smear came back negative.In 2014 she was experiencing symptoms. While at doctors/hospital she read her file which said that the 2011 smear was a false negative but she hadn't been informed.She told her story on Ray Darcy last Sat night if you have player.
Knowing now how active/proactive a person she is,I feel had she been informed of the false negative sooner then she would have had a better fighting chance.
She herself seems to be encouraging women to continue having cervical checks and that false negatives can occur.In fact she reckons that there was never a better time to have one in this country as no information will be withheld due to the high lighting of her case.

Thank you very much . I was confused if they knew her 2011 smear test was a false negative before her 2014 symptoms .

Smear Test Scandal

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