Eviction Ban extended

The_Conductor · 06-07-2020 10:15am

blowin3 wrote: »

We have the neighbors from hell renting next door to us. We have been to the RTB twice and the last time she was warned by them this was her last chance. Since than there has many parties and ABOS served on her and the land lord serving her six months notice. But due to Covid that notice stoped on March 27 th and she is still causing havoc.
Only tonight the Guards called and asked to see my phone as she made a repot that I was filming kids. Needlessly to say there was noting on my phone but my 11 year old son on my wife lookin on while this was happening. The land does not care he gets his rent as he says they are on HAP. I am at my wits end is there anything I can do any advice please.

I work front line and I have 24 hours work over the next 2 days.

All you can do is continue to make 3rd party complaints to the RTB- and log absolutely everything with An Garda Síochána. The fact that they are alleging you are illegally filming children- is an appalling abuse of Garda time- and you deserve to have this recorded as a vexatious complaint against you with the Gardaí to disprove it. Aside from anything else- you're frontline and may need Garda clearance at some stage- having a complaint like this hanging over you- would influence the granting of such clearance. She crossed the line with that particular complaint- and needs to have the riot act read to her over it.

Also- with respect of the landlord- he/she is screwed no matter what they do. They cannot evict the tenant, even because of their anti-social behaviour- at the moment. If they do anything at all- the tenant will end up getting their HAP yanked- and then the landlord doesn't even get the rent.

I'd strongly encourage you to continue to log 3rd party complaints with the RTB though- and to encourage other neighbours to do so too.

Unfortunately- the system is setup to protect the tenant at all costs- from everyone- and the only one who will get any punishment- is the landlord (all the while people like you have to put up or shut up).

Its a stupid system- and the only way you can highlight how stupid it is- is by continuing to log official complaints- which should be properly documented- with the RTB.

For now- get the Gardaí to confirm that they investigated the complaint against you- found you innocent, and have closed the case- as it could have work related implications for you.

JimmyVik · 06-07-2020 10:21am

The_Conductor wrote: »

All you can do is continue to make 3rd party complaints to the RTB- and log absolutely everything with An Garda Síochána. The fact that they are alleging you are illegally filming children- is an appalling abuse of Garda time- and you deserve to have this recorded as a vexatious complaint against you with the Gardaí to disprove it. Aside from anything else- you're frontline and may need Garda clearance at some stage- having a complaint like this hanging over you- would influence the granting of such clearance. She crossed the line with that particular complaint- and needs to have the riot act read to her over it.

Also- with respect of the landlord- he/she is screwed no matter what they do. They cannot evict the tenant, even because of their anti-social behaviour- at the moment. If they do anything at all- the tenant will end up getting their HAP yanked- and then the landlord doesn't even get the rent.

I'd strongly encourage you to continue to log 3rd party complaints with the RTB though- and to encourage other neighbours to do so too.

Unfortunately- the system is setup to protect the tenant at all costs- from everyone- and the only one who will get any punishment- is the landlord (all the while people like you have to put up or shut up).

Its a stupid system- and the only way you can highlight how stupid it is- is by continuing to log official complaints- which should be properly documented- with the RTB.

For now- get the Gardaí to confirm that they investigated the complaint against you- found you innocent, and have closed the case- as it could have work related implications for you.

Agree with everything you said. And especially this.
This is sitting in the pulse system with the posters name and the activity linked. It will come up if their name is ever looked up again. They should definitely get this taken care of. And confirmation from the gardai on what has happen. Even lodge your own complaint about this.
These things do not go away.

blowin3 · 06-07-2020 11:01am

JimmyVik wrote: »

Agree with everything you said. And especially this.
This is sitting in the pulse system with the posters name and the activity linked. It will come up if their name is ever looked up again. They should definitely get this taken care of. And confirmation from the gardai on what has happen. Even lodge your own complaint about this.
These things do not go away.

Thank you both for your constructive response. I plan to into the Garda station after work this evening and try and see whats happening and file a complaint against her . But I am very much aware of the implications of this on my job and I am sure the tenant is aware also. This is a nightmare that seems to be getting worse. I will also revise the case against the landlord with the RTB. But the last time a garda read out 14 official breaches of the peace and they left her in place.
Thanks again I appreciate the advice ðŸ™

handlemaster · 06-07-2020 1:11pm

blowin3 wrote: »

We have the neighbors from hell renting next door to us. We have been to the RTB twice and the last time she was warned by them this was her last chance. Since than there has many parties and ABOS served on her and the land lord serving her six months notice. But due to Covid that notice stoped on March 27 th and she is still causing havoc.
Only tonight the Guards called and asked to see my phone as she made a repot that I was filming kids. Needlessly to say there was noting on my phone but my 11 year old son on my wife lookin on while this was happening. The land does not care he gets his rent as he says they are on HAP. I am at my wits end is there anything I can do any advice please.

I work front line and I have 24 hours work over the next 2 days.

The landlord may not be getting any rent. Just because the tenants are with HAP doesnt mean the landlord is getting paid. If the tenant stops paying the coucil amount the full payment is stopped to the landlord. to say the landlord doesnt care is silly who would want to be dealing with tenants like this ? No one as you say its already been in the RTB twice. The only winner here is the tenant will play the game. But go ahead a and blame the Landlord.

The_Conductor · 06-07-2020 1:28pm

handlemaster wrote: »

The landlord may not be getting any rent. Just because the tenants are with HAP doesnt mean the landlord is getting paid. If the tenant stops paying the coucil amount the full payment is stopped to the landlord. to say the landlord doesnt care is silly who would want to be dealing with tenants like this ? No one as you say its already been in the RTB twice. The only winner here is the tenant will play the game. But go ahead a and blame the Landlord.

Very true- however, the flipside of the coin is the landlord did not have to come to the defense of the tenant at the RTB- against a case brought by neighbours that she is actively terrorising.

Her latest antics could be reputation and career destroying for the OP.

I fully accept that landlords are in an entirely unenviable situation- but in situations like this- the landlord can legitimately put his hands up at the RTB- advise them that he cannot dispute the case brought by the neighbours, offer no defense- and implore the RTB to assist in taking action against the tenant.

In cases like this- the landlord is held responsible for the actions of the tenant- and when the tenant misbehaves in the manner the current one is doing- it is imperative that the landlord do everything in their power to discharge their obligations towards the third party- and that they do not condone appalling, possibly criminal, behaviour on the part of the tenant.

The current legislation is nuts- the landlord is liable- yet, can't do anything about it. Well- the very least the landlord can do- is enter a 'no-contest' to the case- and implore the RTB for help.

handlemaster · 06-07-2020 2:35pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Very true- however, the flipside of the coin is the landlord did not have to come to the defense of the tenant at the RTB- against a case brought by neighbours that she is actively terrorising.

Her latest antics could be reputation and career destroying for the OP.

I fully accept that landlords are in an entirely unenviable situation- but in situations like this- the landlord can legitimately put his hands up at the RTB- advise them that he cannot dispute the case brought by the neighbours, offer no defense- and implore the RTB to assist in taking action against the tenant.

In cases like this- the landlord is held responsible for the actions of the tenant- and when the tenant misbehaves in the manner the current one is doing- it is imperative that the landlord do everything in their power to discharge their obligations towards the third party- and that they do not condone appalling, possibly criminal, behaviour on the part of the tenant.

The current legislation is nuts- the landlord is liable- yet, can't do anything about it. Well- the very least the landlord can do- is enter a 'no-contest' to the case- and implore the RTB for help.

Its very tricky for a landlord . I know of a LL who have her property destroyed by an ex tenant but was advised by the Gardai privately not worth the hassle she would get from pressing charges. She was afraid for her family and herself so dropped it. Its very difficult for the LLs in this day and age, nothing is straight forward as one might think.

blowin3 · 06-07-2020 2:39pm

Believe me yes the landlord was briefing them what to say and this was reported to the RTB. I did threaten that I would sue him so I suppose it was in his interest to defend her. But now I am in a serious predicament regarding allegations that are totally untrue. Just put yourself in my place under stress with whats happening at work and getting little or no sleep. There was drugs being sold there at one stage and yes the landlord was aware of this.
So please do not try defend what this guy LL and what he has done to me and the other neighbors. He has been aware of the situation over the last 3 years.

JimmyVik · 06-07-2020 3:05pm

blowin3 wrote: »

Believe me yes the landlord was briefing them what to say and this was reported to the RTB. I did threaten that I would sue him so I suppose it was in his interest to defend her. But now I am in a serious predicament regarding allegations that are totally untrue. Just put yourself in my place under stress with whats happening at work and getting little or no sleep. There was drugs being sold there at one stage and yes the landlord was aware of this.
So please do not try defend what this guy LL and what he has done to me and the other neighbors. He has been aware of the situation over the last 3 years.

When you say the landlord was briefing them what to say. Did the neighbour or the RTB tell you that?

Yellow_Fern · 06-07-2020 3:48pm

blowin3 wrote: »

But due to Covid that notice stoped on March 27 th and she is still causing havoc.
Only tonight the Guards called and asked to see my phone as she made a repot that I was filming kids. .

I work front line and I have 24 hours work over the next 2 days.

Worth bearing in mind that filming anyone without their consent is technically illegal under GDPR, particularly if footage its on a app like whatsapp or facebook. It is a mad law and I dont see how anyone can enforce that. I know in my community we share pics of youths and teenagers who are dangerous and committing crimes in our estate all the time. It is pretty shocking that the guards would take her serious.

The_Conductor · 06-07-2020 4:07pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Worth bearing in mind that filming anyone without their consent is technically illegal under GDPR, particularly if footage its on a app like whatsapp or facebook. It is a mad law and I dont see how anyone can enforce that. I know in my community we share pics of youths and teenagers who are dangerous and committing crimes in our estate all the time. It is pretty shocking that the guards would take her serious.

Anyone public sector is terrified of GDPR- and there are really stupid things happening (and not happening) because of it. Its a case of assume the worse case scenario, and be relieved when it doesn't come to pass.

07-07-2020 10:41am

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Worth bearing in mind that filming anyone without their consent is technically illegal under GDPR, particularly if footage its on a app like whatsapp or facebook. It is a mad law and I dont see how anyone can enforce that. I know in my community we share pics of youths and teenagers who are dangerous and committing crimes in our estate all the time. It is pretty shocking that the guards would take her serious.

Filming or photographing someone in a public place is most certainly not illegal under any law.

Doing so in a private place where someone would have a expectation of privacy, i.e. their back garden is different.

Also a guard has no right to demand to see a phone.

Yellow_Fern · 07-07-2020 11:57am

Ramon Some Permit wrote: »

Filming or photographing someone in a public place is most certainly not illegal under any law.

Doing so in a private place where someone would have a expectation of privacy, i.e. their back garden is different.

Also a guard has no right to demand to see a phone.

I am not saying you are wrong at all, but there are credible people who argue that filming a troublesome neighbour and sharing the footage to other neighbour is illegal. I guess it would be civil law so I presume the gardai should not be involved.There is the public vs private distinction but the front door of many houses is often public and the footage is often automatically 'shared' by being stored in the cloud, many which are located on servers in China or the US. There is no clarity as far as I can see.

TSQ · 10-07-2020 3:11pm

frw5 wrote: »

You are right there, my rent got decreased, and look and behold the landlord is still alive and not generating loss. :rolleyes:

I think I am on topic because this is a perfect example on how someone tried to use the situation to rent a property to go on a spending spree. It is a perfect example where this type of investment only reflects negatively on society. Luckily it seems we are slowly coming out of Dark Ages. Over and out.

Why dont you work hard, save a deposit and buy your own place instead of sponging off the hard work and savings of others. There are properties on BidX all over Ireland for under 100k.. ah no, you want to be near your ma / the pub/ the shops/ The airport for your trips away / the social welfare office... and someone else to pay for keeping you in the style and location you are entitled to, no doubt your plan is for a forever home at taxpayers expense, without ever making any effort yourself.
As for the snide reference to “spending spree” wherever that came out of, you sound like a right begrudger. I suppose you would prefer if everyone who went abroad for work or pleasure left houses empty.

Yellow_Fern · 10-07-2020 10:28pm

TSQ wrote: »

Why dont you work hard, save a deposit and buy your own place instead of sponging off the hard work and savings of others. There are properties on BidX all over Ireland for under 100k.. ah no, you want to be near your ma / the pub/ the shops/ The airport for your trips away / the social welfare office... and someone else to pay for keeping you in the style and location you are entitled to, no doubt your plan is for a forever home at taxpayers expense, without ever making any effort yourself.
As for the snide reference to “spending spree” wherever that came out of, you sound like a right begrudger. I suppose you would prefer if everyone who went abroad for work or pleasure left houses empty.

In fairness these cheap properties require a lot of love, patience and money to renovate to modern building regulations. You can sleep in a property that does not meet regulation but you can't ever rent it out. But the person you were responding to is a total nutter so I agree with the sentiment of your actual post 100%.

TSQ · 10-07-2020 10:34pm

So does the eviction ban extend to these tenants? Yet it is the landlord being taken to court, not the anti-social tenants, snd the PRTB nowhere to be seen. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/we-have-had-no-sleep-whatsoever-cork-covid-party-house-case-hears-from-residents-1010476.html

Yellow_Fern · 10-07-2020 11:11pm

TSQ wrote: »

So does the eviction ban extend to these tenants? Yet it is the landlord being taken to court, not the anti-social tenants, snd the PRTB nowhere to be seen. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/we-have-had-no-sleep-whatsoever-cork-covid-party-house-case-hears-from-residents-1010476.html

Yup, the landlord can do very little. I sympathise with the residents but their time might be better spent soundproofing their homes or going vigilante against the students, or petitioning their TDs

fran38 · 11-07-2020 12:24am

I don't want to start a thread when this one may suit the question. Does this covid legislation prevent me from evicting a tenant on theft of property grounds?

perfectkama · 11-07-2020 8:35am

if you cannot evict on any grounds is that the nationalization of privately owned rented property?
tomorrow i could pay a deposit and 1 months rent show bank statement and other documents refs etc don't pay anything after owner can do nothing.

11-07-2020 10:37am

TSQ wrote: »

So does the eviction ban extend to these tenants? Yet it is the landlord being taken to court, not the anti-social tenants, snd the PRTB nowhere to be seen. https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/we-have-had-no-sleep-whatsoever-cork-covid-party-house-case-hears-from-residents-1010476.html

I’ve been following this story and I simply cannot understand what the LL is expected to do, even leaving the covid restrictions aside our draconian anti-LL laws would make it a very difficult and long process for the LL.

I have massive sympathy for the residents and it should be possible to just kick out these idiots onto the street immediately, physically if necessary but try that and the LL would be in more trouble than he is now.

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2020 11:53am

fran38 wrote: »

I don't want to start a thread when this one may suit the question. Does this covid legislation prevent me from evicting a tenant on theft of property grounds?

You can't evict on any grounds at the moment.
See this however.
https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/rent-freeze-blow-extension-of-emergency-measures-and-ban-on-evictions-may-not-be-legally-possible-government-warned-39358708.html

Claw Hammer · 11-07-2020 11:55am

Ramon Some Permit wrote: »

I’ve been following this story and I simply cannot understand what the LL is expected to do, even leaving the covid restrictions aside our draconian anti-LL laws would make it a very difficult and long process for the LL.

I have massive sympathy for the residents and it should be possible to just kick out these idiots onto the street immediately, physically if necessary but try that and the LL would be in more trouble than he is now.

The landlord can sere notices on the tenants. He can call the guards to go to the property and identify the non tenants

beauf · 11-07-2020 12:14pm

Ramon Some Permit wrote: »

I’ve been following this story and I simply cannot understand what the LL is expected to do,....

Suck it up and go broke. No one cares. Basically.

People can't join the dots between this is and the housing/rental crisis.

Crimsonred · 11-07-2020 10:13pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Yup, the landlord can do very little. I sympathise with the residents but their time might be better spent soundproofing their homes or going vigilante against the students, or petitioning their TDs

Soundproofing doesn't work when you have 20+ young drunk people roaring their heads off next door and playing loud music.

These are short term lets btw, the Landlords in this area, which is near UCC, saw an opportunity to fill up their houses for the summer with students whose foreign travel plans have been thwarted by covid-19.

I doubt that many of these tenancies are registered with the RTB, this is something the residents should have looked into of course. Some of these houses, which would have originally been family homes, have upto 10 tenants staying in them, the fact that such a situation is allowed to continue shows that the RTB is not fit for purpose.

beauf · 11-07-2020 10:59pm

Crimsonred wrote: »

Soundproofing doesn't work when you have 20+ young drunk people roaring their heads off next door and playing loud music.

These are short term lets btw, the Landlords in this area, which is near UCC, saw an opportunity to fill up their houses for the summer with students whose foreign travel plans have been thwarted by covid-19.

I doubt that many of these tenancies are registered with the RTB, this is something the residents should have looked into of course. Some of these houses, which would have originally been family homes, have upto 10 tenants staying in them, the fact that such a situation is allowed to continue shows that the RTB is not fit for purpose.

Doesn't all this fall under the local authority not the RTB?

11-07-2020 11:13pm

Whether the LL has registered these tenants or not with the RTB doesn't really matter, the tenants still have their rights. The landlord cant be calling round unannounced or entering the property without their permission.

I lived in the Wilton Road a few (*cough*) years ago in a house with about ten others. Back then the landlord genuinely could come round and tell you to cop on and shut up, but those days seem to be behind us.

11-07-2020 11:16pm

beauf wrote: »

Doesn't all this fall under the local authority not the RTB?

Would they give a damn?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! · 11-07-2020 11:21pm

If the government want to criminalise the eviction of non-paying tenants, then why don't they foot the bill for non-payers?

Money should be stopped from wages or single mother's allowance etc.

To the people who suggested recouping moneys through the courts? LOL. As if Jacinta the town bike could or would cooperate and even if she did there's no chance her single mothers allowance would be stopped.

Crimsonred · 11-07-2020 11:38pm

beauf wrote: »

Doesn't all this fall under the local authority not the RTB?

I would have thought a third party complaint against the landlord to the RTB was the way to go.

Crimsonred · 11-07-2020 11:42pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Whether the LL has registered these tenants or not with the RTB doesn't really matter, the tenants still have their rights. The landlord cant be calling round unannounced or entering the property without their permission.

I lived in the Wilton Road a few (*cough*) years ago in a house with about ten others. Back then the landlord genuinely could come round and tell you to cop on and shut up, but those days seem to be behind us.

Local residents have the right to the peaceful occupation of their homes, and to a night's sleep, no?

11-07-2020 11:46pm

They do but the landlord has rented out a house and that house is now the tenants home, landlords cannot go throwing their weight around anymore.

The local residents need to talk to the tenants.

Yellow_Fern · 12-07-2020 12:07am

Crimsonred wrote: »

Local residents have the right to the peaceful occupation of their homes, and to a night's sleep, no?

Local residents are morally entitled to a peaceful nights sleep, but there is no legal right. There should be an enforcement mechanism but sadly none

Graham · 12-07-2020 1:34am

From the RTB

A landlord owes to each person who could be affected (for example by antisocial behaviour) a duty to enforce the responsibilities of the tenant(s) in the tenancy. In cases where a landlord fails to enforce a tenant’s responsibilites, a person directly and adversely affected may take a case against the landlord through the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB).

Landlords can also be ordered to make substantial payments to affected parties for the distress caused by their failure to enforce their tenants’ responsibilities.

beauf · 12-07-2020 2:12am

Graham wrote: »

From the RTB

Yes but the problem is the landlord has no power to enforce it. It's a catch 22.

beauf · 12-07-2020 2:13am

Crimsonred wrote: »

I would have thought a third party complaint against the landlord to the RTB was the way to go.

He was talking about over crowding. That's not RTB that local authority remit afaik.

PSOC_2020 · 12-07-2020 2:59am

Graham wrote:

From the RTB

I didn't see the RTB anywhere involved in the recent case of the Cork Covid-party Landlord. Had to be resolved by the Local Authority. No teeth.

Graham · 12-07-2020 9:07am

beauf wrote: »

Yes but the problem is the landlord has no power to enforce it. It's a catch 22.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

You can't evict on any grounds at the moment.

other than:

in limited and exceptional circumstances where a breach of tenant obligations takes place and an RTB Determination Order is sourced through the dispute resolution process

(RTB)

Graham · 12-07-2020 9:10am

PSOC_2020 wrote: »

I didn't see the RTB anywhere involved in the recent case of the Cork Covid-party Landlord. Had to be resolved by the Local Authority. No teeth.

It is being reported that no complaint has been made to the RTB yet.

They are preparing a complaint for the Residential Tenancies Board -RTB

Examiner - June 15

Pkiernan · 12-07-2020 9:11am

Graham wrote: »

other than:

(RTB)

Except the RTB isn't operational the moment.

Graham · 12-07-2020 9:32am

Pkiernan wrote: »

Except the RTB isn't operational the moment.

I'm seeing determination orders dated end of June being published in the last week.

beauf · 12-07-2020 9:33am

Pkiernan wrote: »

Except the RTB isn't operational the moment.

I know it was closed and probably meetings are not happening. Once they open there will be a huge backlog. Are they not back working? I can find nothing on their website.

Probably takes about 3-4 months to get a hearing before this.

beauf · 12-07-2020 9:34am

Graham wrote: »

I'm seeing determination orders dated end of June being published in the last week.

But when did they sit for those. When did they have the hearing?

Crimsonred · 12-07-2020 10:02am

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

They do but the landlord has rented out a house and that house is now the tenants home, landlords cannot go throwing their weight around anymore.

The local residents need to talk to the tenants.

The residents have spoken to the tenants alright, see below from the Examiner.

An elderly resident who lives near a property that has become known as ‘Covid Party House’ described how a young woman outside the house was told to hush but responded by saying, “Turn up the music".

Sadie O’Mahony, of Highfield West, near University College Cork, was giving evidence in the case against the landlord for being responsible for noise as a nuisance. Ms O’Mahony said: “In the last couple of months we have had no sleep whatsoever. We have been in contact with Fachtna O’Reilly over the years but in the last six to eight weeks it is gone really bad.”

She described having her granddaughter staying over last Friday night for the first time since the Covid-19 restrictions lifted and said they were all still awake at 5am on a morning when her daughter had to be at work for 8am.

Ms O’Mahony described another incident where two young women were outside the 'party house'. “One said, ‘We can do what we want’. The other said, ‘The residents would like to sleep'. (The first woman said), ‘Turn up the music.’ And then it got even louder.”

On another occasion, Ms O'Mahony said she heard a young man say through an open window after the gardaí had called to the house, “The shades are gone, we can do what we want.”

Going back to another incident during Rag Week, Ms O’Mahony said that in the same house, there was a party one night and the gardaí came out. “We counted just over 100 people came out of the house,” she testified at Cork District Court today.

From the Residential Tanancies Act 2004 regarding the obligations of tenants.

“behave in a way that is anti-social” means—

(c) engage, persistently, in behaviour that prevents or interferes with the peaceful occupation—

(i) by any other person residing in the dwelling concerned, of that dwelling,

(ii) by any person residing in any other dwelling contained in the property containing the dwelling concerned, of that other dwelling, or

(iii) by any person residing in a dwelling (“neighbourhood dwelling”) in the vicinity of the dwelling or the property containing the dwelling concerned, of that neighbourhood dwelling.

12-07-2020 5:00pm

So, does not look like eviction ban will/can b extended, the Attorney General has raised doubts about the legality of doing so as the reopening of the economy weakens the public health justification for infringing constitutional property rights. His opinion is a further ban will not withstand a High Court challenge.

Article on front page of Sunday Times.

Elessar · 12-07-2020 5:24pm

Dav010 wrote: »

So, does not look like eviction ban will/can b extended, the Attorney General has raised doubts about the legality of doing so as the reopening of the economy weakens the public health justification for infringing constitutional property rights. His opinion is a further ban will not withstand a High Court challenge.

Article on front page of Sunday Times.

Good to see the constitution being upheld. I wonder how the AG will see the Green's desire to remove the ability for landlords to evict tenants if they want to sell their property? And/or get it back for themselves or a family member?

The_Conductor · 12-07-2020 6:18pm

Dav010 wrote: »

So, does not look like eviction ban will/can b extended, the Attorney General has raised doubts about the legality of doing so as the reopening of the economy weakens the public health justification for infringing constitutional property rights. His opinion is a further ban will not withstand a High Court challenge.

Article on front page of Sunday Times.

I have my doubts- as the whole premise of the RPZ legislation is based on the same premise- that is, that it is strictly temporary in nature and not subject to extension. No-one took a challenge to it. No-one wants to be the person to challenge it- as they will be made out to be the devil incarnate in the media.

The_Conductor · 12-07-2020 6:21pm

Elessar wrote: »

Good to see the constitution being upheld. I wonder how the AG will see the Green's desire to remove the ability for landlords to evict tenants if they want to sell their property? And/or get it back for themselves or a family member?

It would be easier to keep property vacant- and just pay the property tax- maybe visit it at weekends etc. Keep in mind- 63% of all rental property on the market- is owned by landlords who only own a single unit, and 74% is owned by landlords who own 3 or fewer units.

The vast preponderance of residential rental property- is not owned by 'property moguls' or vulture funds or whatever you want to call them- despite what the media would like you to believe.

12-07-2020 6:24pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

I have my doubts- as the whole premise of the RPZ legislation is based on the same premise- that is, that it is strictly temporary in nature and not subject to extension. No-one took a challenge to it. No-one wants to be the person to challenge it- as they will be made out to be the devil incarnate in the media.

I think the eviction ban poses far greater financial difficulties to LLs and is more likely to be tested by institutional investors than RPZ legislation.

The_Conductor · 12-07-2020 6:29pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I think the eviction ban poses far greater financial difficulties to LLs and is more likely to be tested by institutional investors than RPZ legislation.

Agree.
And the main reason for this is the sheer number of tenants who have abused to eviction ban to give up paying rent (some claiming they have been laid off- others who were furloughed- simply know how to play the system).
Its a case of too many tenants played the system on this one- the large institutional investors can ignore a few local cases- but we're talking about a whole different scale of an issue here.

The_Conductor · 12-07-2020 6:40pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I think the eviction ban poses far greater financial difficulties to LLs and is more likely to be tested by institutional investors than RPZ legislation.

On second thoughts- part of the RPZ legislation enables either a tenant or a landlord to trigger a rent review. While there is a limit on upward reviews- there is no such commensurate limits on reductions in rent. If tenants go on a spree of demanding rent reviews- and successfully get significant reductions (which would have to be benchmarked against other properties in the area)- they could get significant reductions in rent- which the landlord would not be entitled to reset at a future point in time (if rents started to increase again).

It depends on what actually transpires- but there could very well be challenges to the RPZ legislation in the works too.

Whether tenants realise it or not- the regulatory regime has been firmly in their favour for many years- if some of the big institutional investors start to hurt- they are faceless entities (mostly) who won't care about bringing about a challenge. Worse case scenario for them- a legal challenge would be tax deductible lol......:(

JimmyVik · 13-07-2020 9:05am

The_Conductor wrote: »

On second thoughts- part of the RPZ legislation enables either a tenant or a landlord to trigger a rent review. While there is a limit on upward reviews- there is no such commensurate limits on reductions in rent. If tenants go on a spree of demanding rent reviews- and successfully get significant reductions (which would have to be benchmarked against other properties in the area)- they could get significant reductions in rent- which the landlord would not be entitled to reset at a future point in time (if rents started to increase again).

It depends on what actually transpires- but there could very well be challenges to the RPZ legislation in the works too.

Whether tenants realise it or not- the regulatory regime has been firmly in their favour for many years- if some of the big institutional investors start to hurt- they are faceless entities (mostly) who won't care about bringing about a challenge. Worse case scenario for them- a legal challenge would be tax deductible lol......:(

Those bit institutional investors wont want to rock the boat. They are getting a sweet deal for staying in line and not challenging.

Eviction Ban extended

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