Put on Wage Subsidy Scheme - Will this affect mortgage application?

greengrass88 · 09-08-2020 10:05am

https://www.thejournal.ie/mortgage-wage-subsidy-5170246-Aug2020/

Sonrisa · 11-08-2020 9:19am

L1011 wrote: »

Only after the 3/6 months or whatever of bank statements that the lender requests. And its entirely possible that salary certs will suddenly grow a field about whether the employer receivers the TWSS replacement EWSS.

Could they ask that? Like that's not unlike asking whether your employer has an overdraft or any other business loans.

revoke12 · 18-08-2020 11:21am

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

You can’t state this as fact across the board. I only know one or two people on the scheme and at least one of them still has a very secure job their employer just went on the scheme as it’s saving them money and you can be damn sure this is the case in many other jobs. This is not a normal recession, in most cases all the work that was there for business is still there once things start to get back to normal. Which would happen a lot faster if people stayed at home.

It’s a disgrace that the backs are messing up people’s lives like this denying them mortgages at the last minute etc when they can clearly afford them.

Agree with you totally on this aswell, my friend her partner in questions job was never in jepordy due to covid but the employer put him on the scheme and this is what jepordised their chances of getting the first draw down. cant paint everyone with same brush some employers took the scheme and employees should not be penalised in my eyes.

Wildly Boaring · 18-08-2020 11:29am

How can a job be secure and a company be down 30% turnover at the same time?

You may be indispensable to your employer. No use if your employer goes bust.

Some of the posters seem to think employers are availing of the scheme for the craic.

silent_spark · 18-08-2020 11:34am

Why would a lender ignore that a customer's employer had taken at least a 25% hit to revenue when that information is available to them? They analyse the level of risk based on the evidence presented, and a customer with a job in an industry adversely affected by the pandemic is of course going to be a higher risk customer than one whose employer has not been affected.

cubatahavana · 18-08-2020 3:41pm

Pharmacy with two pharmacists and 3 staff. Due to covid owner needs to reduce hours of second pharmacist (not the supervising) and let one of the general staff go until they recover. Everyone is on the TWSS. The pharmacy operating with one staff less and less hours for the second pharmacist has reduced their revenue by 30% but it still is enough for the other staff members to be perfectly safe (especially the supervising pharmacist). They would receive TWSS and be in a safe job.

cubatahavana · 18-08-2020 3:44pm

And I’m sure some accountants are doing some creative accounting to make some companies less profitable and be able to avail of the TWSS even if not needed

CrabRevolution · 19-08-2020 12:02pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

How can a job be secure and a company be down 30% turnover at the same time?

You may be indispensable to your employer. No use if your employer goes bust.

Some of the posters seem to think employers are availing of the scheme for the craic.

While I agree with the general gist of your post, you're deluded if you think employers aren't doing their utmost to fall within the requirements for the scheme even if they've been untouched financially. For some businesses it will be covering the vast majority of their wage bill while they're still taking in near normal income. It's effectively free money, how would they not try to get in on it?

brisan · 19-08-2020 12:11pm

CrabRevolution wrote: »

While I agree with the general gist of your post, you're deluded if you think employers aren't doing their utmost to fall within the requirements for the scheme even if they've been untouched financially. For some businesses it will be covering the vast majority of their wage bill while they're still taking in near normal income. It's effectively free money, how would they not try to get in on it?

And by getting it they are affecting their employees chances of getting a mortgage

cubatahavana · 19-08-2020 12:36pm

brisan wrote: »

And by getting it they are affecting their employees chances of getting a mortgage

Can’t see them worrying about this

GalwayyGirl · 19-08-2020 7:08pm

Has anyone heard from any bank about drawdown when in receipt of the EWSS top up from September?

I understand that the EWSS subsidy payment won’t show up on payslips but I haven’t got an update from any of the banks as to whether they will accept it and permit drawdown.

19-08-2020 11:23pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

How can a job be secure and a company be down 30% turnover at the same time?

You may be indispensable to your employer. No use if your employer goes bust.

Some of the posters seem to think employers are availing of the scheme for the craic.

A business should not be at risk with a 30% drop in turnover. Some staff might be at risk at some point but not all staff.

The people I’m talking about are in business that will always be needed, there might be a bit of a dip now but once things ramp up again business will return to normal and they have plenty of guaranteed work to keep things ticking over while covid is around. They also would be towards the top of the pecking order so very far from any risk of being a person let go if it did come to it.

Wildly Boaring · 20-08-2020 9:16am

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

A business should not be at risk with a 30% drop in turnover. Some staff might be at risk at some point but not all staff.

What are you talking about?
Of course a business is at risk with such a shock.

If a business needs to enter this scheme they are in Trouble.
This scheme is keeping many employers from cutting staff.
(creative book-keeping aside)

Very longstanding, reputable and substantial businesses went to the wall from 2007 to 2012.
Serious international names have already bitten the dust due to Covid.

Covid isn't over. There will be more shocks and more knock on effects.

The banks cannot lend to those who might lose their jobs or whose companies may go bust. We'd be bailing the useless ****ers out AGAIN!!

irelandrover · 20-08-2020 9:24am

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

A business should not be at risk with a 30% drop in turnover. Some staff might be at risk at some point but not all staff.

The people I’m talking about are in business that will always be needed, there might be a bit of a dip now but once things ramp up again business will return to normal and they have plenty of guaranteed work to keep things ticking over while covid is around. They also would be towards the top of the pecking order so very far from any risk of being a person let go if it did come to it.

Even if it is true that a business is not at risk with a 30% income drop, how is the bank meant to know which employees are safe and which will be let go?

greengrass88 · 21-08-2020 3:49pm

GalwayyGirl wrote: »

Has anyone heard from any bank about drawdown when in receipt of the EWSS top up from September?

I understand that the EWSS subsidy payment won’t show up on payslips but I haven’t got an update from any of the banks as to whether they will accept it and permit drawdown.

I was told by about 5 banks and 2 brokers no drawdown until you have 1 payslip where you are off the EWSS. Banks will likely look for letters from employers confirming they are not on the scheme.

lomb · 21-08-2020 8:04pm

Also its a minimum of 30% drop in ongoing month to month turnover exlcuding the lockdown months. Basically a business would have to be up the creek without a paddle to be claiming this. The twss was different it was a 25% drop but in the lockdown months when most businesses would have qualified I guess.

Dolbhad · 22-08-2020 5:34am

lomb wrote: »

Also its a minimum of 30% drop in ongoing month to month turnover exlcuding the lockdown months. Basically a business would have to be up the creek without a paddle to be claiming this. The twss was different it was a 25% drop but in the lockdown months when most businesses would have qualified I guess.

It would depend on the business model. I would expect a lot solicitors and accountants etc who would do the work and bill later down the line on completion of the file would be affected in that they wouldn’t have had as much files a few months ago so wouldn’t be billing as much now. It could end of year before they are back to normal levels.

I do expect the banks to request letters from employers confirming if you are on the new payment to get around the fact they won’t know from the payslip.

22-08-2020 9:01am

Dolbhad wrote: »

It would depend on the business model. I would expect a lot solicitors and accountants etc who would do the work and bill later down the line on completion of the file would be affected in that they wouldn’t have had as much files a few months ago so wouldn’t be billing as much now. It could end of year before they are back to normal levels.

I do expect the banks to request letters from employers confirming if you are on the new payment to get around the fact they won’t know from the payslip.

These are the types of business I’m referring to. No danger whatsoever of going bust but may be on the scheme for now until everything picks up again when things start getting back to normal.

SouthWesterly · 22-08-2020 9:12am

I'm seeing guards having to get letters from their employer saying they didn't get any Covid payment's. Banks are getting cautious when that happens

Wildly Boaring · 22-08-2020 9:13am

Can't think of worse examples than solicitors or accountants. Well maybe musicians or publicans

We're definitely looking at a slow down and probably a recession.
Accountants get much less work and definitely much less income in recessions.

Most solicitors rely on property transactions for fees.
There could yet be a slow down in property sales and in a full in recession a complete collapse

The banks need to look past the first 3 months repayments.

Wildly Boaring · 22-08-2020 9:14am

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

These are the types of business I’m referring to. No danger whatsoever of going bust but may be on the scheme for now until everything picks up again when things start getting back to normal.

Who says we're going back to normal?
The banks don't know if we are or not.

I see 2 hotel schemes put in ice this week.

22-08-2020 9:22am

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Who says we're going back to normal?
The banks don't know if we are or not.

I see 2 hotel schemes put in ice this week.

Many parts of the economy are booming, only a limited section is impacted. Even if there is a minor recession (and that’s a big “if”) it will be nothing like a normal recession as it will not impact many of the areas normally impacted and it will not be as long it deep rooted.

Rents and property prices aren’t even falling which plummet in recessions. The biggest thing slowing down property sales are the banks so they are actually causing a slow down here so in fact are likely doing far more harm than good by not issuing mortgages.

Wildly Boaring · 22-08-2020 9:46am

Ok we obviously see this differently

I'm struggling to think of an unaffected industry;maybe pharma, Lidl and Amazon? Binmen

Tourism
Air travel
Pubs, restaurants, cafes
Child care
Construction and very much future construction,you wanna build a hotel or office block?
Sales in particular motor
Retail
Meat factories
Mushroom farms
Professional services
Any type of courses or grinds
Anyone makes money from sport
Nursing homes
Barbers and hairdressers

Edit
The whole of Kildare!!

lomb · 22-08-2020 10:07am

Aviation and hospitality are gone as is any tourism activity. High street retail other than food is also affected.
Banks are impacted as losses will destroy capital affecting ability to lend. Construction is affected also. We saw what happened in the last recession when this happened.
Also we are at the end of the business cycle so investment in machinery and capital is also seriously affected.
Rental sector is affected also as unknown If tenants will pay rent if they cannot afford it.

Thierry12 · 22-08-2020 10:23am

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

Many parts of the economy are booming, only a limited section is impacted. Even if there is a minor recession (and that’s a big “if”) it will be nothing like a normal recession as it will not impact many of the areas normally impacted and it will not be as long it deep rooted.

Rents and property prices aren’t even falling which plummet in recessions. The biggest thing slowing down property sales are the banks so they are actually causing a slow down here so in fact are likely doing far more harm than good by not issuing mortgages.

What are the many parts that are booming?

22-08-2020 2:13pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Ok we obviously see this differently

I'm struggling to think of an unaffected industry;maybe pharma, Lidl and Amazon? Binmen

Tourism
Air travel
Pubs, restaurants, cafes
Child care
Construction and very much future construction,you wanna build a hotel or office block?
Sales in particular motor
Retail
Meat factories
Mushroom farms
Professional services
Any type of courses or grinds
Anyone makes money from sport
Nursing homes
Barbers and hairdressers

Edit
The whole of Kildare!!

A lot of them are well on the way back to normal now or where never in major problems. Things like meat factories also were not badly impacted aside from outbreaks.

We still have a massive housing shortage so there will be plenty of work in construction it paused rather than the need dried up.

Tourism, air travel, pubs and non-food retail such as clothes shops are the main things impacted overall.

Thierry12 wrote: »

What are the many parts that are booming?

IT is absolutely booming and is a major employer in Ireland and particularly of high value jobs. Food retail is booming. Pharma and medical devices are at worst unaffected but doing better in some instances.

greengrass88 · 22-08-2020 2:21pm

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

A lot of them are well on the way back to normal now or where never in major problems. Things like meat factories also were not badly impacted aside from outbreaks.

We still have a massive housing shortage so there will be plenty of work in construction it paused rather than the need dried up.

Tourism, air travel, pubs and non-food retail such as clothes shops are the main things impacted overall.

IT is absolutely booming and is a major employer in Ireland and particularly of high value jobs. Food retail is booming. Pharma and medical devices are at worst unaffected but doing better in some instances.

Would people imagine that working in an industry such a air travel/tourism would have a negative impact on getting a mortgage in the medium term? Say in 2021

22-08-2020 2:25pm

greengrass88 wrote: »

Would people imagine that working in an industry such a air travel/tourism would have a negative impact on getting a mortgage in the medium term? Say in 2021

I would imagine it would.

I’m not saying the banks are wrong to refuse loans to some people on the wage scheme, there are sectors that are very uncertain and the banks would be right to be cautious. The blanket decision not to loan to anyone on the scheme is stupid and unfair though as there are people totally secure in their jobs on the scheme and refusing them mortgages is wrong and messing up things in their lives.

Wildly Boaring · 22-08-2020 4:08pm

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

A lot of them are well on the way back to normal now or where never in major problems. Things like meat factories also were not badly impacted aside from outbreaks.

We still have a massive housing shortage so there will be plenty of work in construction it paused rather than the need dried up.

Tourism, air travel, pubs and non-food retail such as clothes shops are the main things impacted overall.

IT is absolutely booming and is a major employer in Ireland and particularly of high value jobs. Food retail is booming. Pharma and medical devices are at worst unaffected but doing better in some instances.

Government report on just how bad it is
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0822/1160613-covid-business-reports/

greengrass88 · 22-08-2020 4:20pm

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

I would imagine it would.

I’m not saying the banks are wrong to refuse loans to some people on the wage scheme, there are sectors that are very uncertain and the banks would be right to be cautious. The blanket decision not to loan to anyone on the scheme is stupid and unfair though as there are people totally secure in their jobs on the scheme and refusing them mortgages is wrong and messing up things in their lives.

Agreed. Do you think that those industries will be looked at negatively even after the subsidy schemes are over in April?

brisan · 24-08-2020 11:14am

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

I would imagine it would.

I’m not saying the banks are wrong to refuse loans to some people on the wage scheme, there are sectors that are very uncertain and the banks would be right to be cautious. The blanket decision not to loan to anyone on the scheme is stupid and unfair though as there are people totally secure in their jobs on the scheme and refusing them mortgages is wrong and messing up things in their lives.

If their employer has lost enough business for them to qualify for TWSS how can you say their jobs are secure

GalwayyGirl · 24-08-2020 2:15pm

greengrass88 wrote: »

I was told by about 5 banks and 2 brokers no drawdown until you have 1 payslip where you are off the EWSS. Banks will likely look for letters from employers confirming they are not on the scheme.

Banks can hardly compel financial information from a third party (ie the employer)? Hopefully banks will simply ask to get all usual assurances in respect of the borrowers employment security (letter from employer, payslips, p60s etc) and will make a decision on the risk factor on a case by case basis.

If the banks continue to put a hold on applicants who were impacted by covid (including subsidy receipients) until April 2021, it could pose a significant risk to sectors such as construction, legal, estate agents and banking.

The_Conductor · 24-08-2020 2:30pm

Is there a list of employers in the public domain who are partaking in the wage subsidy scheme?

Sonrisa · 24-08-2020 2:50pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

Is there a list of employers in the public domain who are partaking in the wage subsidy scheme?

This is apparently going to be published when the scheme ends

greengrass88 · 24-08-2020 3:01pm

GalwayyGirl wrote: »

Banks can hardly compel financial information from a third party (ie the employer)? Hopefully banks will simply ask to get all usual assurances in respect of the borrowers employment security (letter from employer, payslips, p60s etc) and will make a decision on the risk factor on a case by case basis.

If the banks continue to put a hold on applicants who were impacted by covid (including subsidy receipients) until April 2021, it could pose a significant risk to sectors such as construction, legal, estate agents and banking.

Honestly I'm not sure anymore as theres so much conflicting information. But I've been told a few times that banks will ask for letter from employers confirming if they are or are not getting that government support

GalwayyGirl · 27-08-2020 5:57pm

Has anyone had any success in drawing down while one or both applicants are in receipt of the subsidy?

We have wasted countless weeks now applying to additional banks that initially said there will be no issue with drawdown as they are dealing with subsidy receipients on a "case-by-case basis". All of the banks which have come back to us are requiring proof of non-receipt of the subsidy prior to drawdown (despite what they previously stated).

Only one of us are in receipt of the subsidy payment (no threat to job security). We are have strong incomes, good savings and no debt. Despite this, we don't satisfy whatever critera they are using to assess our application on a 'case-by-case' basis.

Any help would really be appreciated. Thank you.

brisan · 27-08-2020 6:02pm

GalwayyGirl wrote: »

Has anyone had any success in drawing down while one or both applicants are in receipt of the subsidy?

We have wasted countless weeks now applying to additional banks that initially said there will be no issue with drawdown as they are dealing with subsidy receipients on a "case-by-case basis". All of the banks which have come back to us are requiring proof of non-receipt of the subsidy prior to drawdown (despite what they previously stated).

Only one of us are in receipt of the subsidy payment (no threat to job security). We are have strong incomes, good savings and no debt. Despite this, we don't satisfy whatever critera they are using to assess our application on a 'case-by-case' basis.

Any help would really be appreciated. Thank you.

How people can still believe this is beyond me

Cushtie · 27-08-2020 6:11pm

If I understand it correctly the TWSS is replaced from next week by the EWSS. If a company is in receipt of the EWSS this payment will not appear on the employees payslip.

brisan · 27-08-2020 6:19pm

Cushtie wrote: »

If I understand it correctly the TWSS is replaced from next week by the EWSS. If a company is in receipt of the EWSS this payment will not appear on the employees payslip.

The banks also know this
So if a previous payslip showed TWSS then it will be assumed you are on EWSS unless you can get a letter proving otherwise.
From the horses mouth ie a nephew working in EBS

GalwayyGirl · 27-08-2020 6:49pm

brisan wrote: »

The banks also know this
So if a previous payslip showed TWSS then it will be assumed you are on EWSS unless you can get a letter proving otherwise.
From the horses mouth ie a nephew working in EBS

Most banks are now asking for a letter from the employer to confirm they are not in receipt of the subsidy.

Janey100 · 27-08-2020 6:50pm

GalwayyGirl wrote: »

Has anyone had any success in drawing down while one or both applicants are in receipt of the subsidy?

We have wasted countless weeks now applying to additional banks that initially said there will be no issue with drawdown as they are dealing with subsidy receipients on a "case-by-case basis". All of the banks which have come back to us are requiring proof of non-receipt of the subsidy prior to drawdown (despite what they previously stated).

Only one of us are in receipt of the subsidy payment (no threat to job security). We are have strong incomes, good savings and no debt. Despite this, we don't satisfy whatever critera they are using to assess our application on a 'case-by-case' basis.

Any help would really be appreciated. Thank you.

No but our broker has told us he has had some successes in order to get us to continue the process when we didnt know if we should bother and get our Hope's up, but whether this is true or not I will find out in 3 weeks when we look to drawdown ðŸ€·*♀️

Have you contracts signed? Are you in hospitality as he thinks this is the "case by case" bases

GalwayyGirl · 27-08-2020 6:55pm

Janey100 wrote: »

No but our broker has told us he has had some successes in order to get us to continue the process when we didnt know if we should bother and get our Hope's up, but whether this is true or not I will find out in 3 weeks when we look to drawdown ðŸ€·*♀️

Have you contracts signed? Are you in hospitality as he thinks this is the "case by case" bases

We are sale agreed but haven't signed contracts yet. I work in the legal sector.

27-08-2020 6:56pm

brisan wrote: »

How people can still believe this is beyond me

Because it’s fact for many people.

How can people now believe that there are people in receipt of the subsidy that are totally secure and there companies haven’t a chance in hell of going under.

Janey100 · 27-08-2020 6:59pm

GalwayyGirl wrote: »

We are sale agreed but haven't signed contracts yet. I work in the legal sector.

Makes no sense then you should be fine especially that only one of you are on it,why would they tell you to go through the process it will be fine and then not follow through!Waste of your time!

Also if it's not appearing on the next payslip what to stop a company writing a letter and lying that they are off it,what's a piece of typed up words worth!

Janey100 · 27-08-2020 7:09pm

Londyn Hallowed Duet wrote: »

Because it’s fact for many people.

How can people now believe that there are people in receipt of the subsidy that are totally secure and there companies haven’t a chance in hell of going under.

I believe that galway girl has a partner who is not on the scheme ,and also know if they can or cannot afford a mortgage considering anyone can lose a job tommorow covid or no covid and most mortgages are cheaper than rent.

And In my instance I work for a multi billion company who managed to just get our sector on the scheme as it was performing at 65% even though their other sectors where up through covid. I think banks should take the case by case serious .

Tow · 27-08-2020 7:13pm

Cushtie wrote: »

If a company is in receipt of the EWSS this payment will not appear on the employees payslip.

Revenue will publish a list of employers on EWSS once the scheme ends.

brisan · 27-08-2020 9:44pm

Janey100 wrote: »

Makes no sense then you should be fine especially that only one of you are on it,why would they tell you to go through the process it will be fine and then not follow through!Waste of your time!

Also if it's not appearing on the next payslip what to stop a company writing a letter and lying that they are off it,what's a piece of typed up words worth!

You do know obtaining money by deception is a criminal offence ,and any employer giving such a letter would possibly be considered an accomplice ,but I am sure you knew that

michellie · 27-08-2020 9:51pm

brisan wrote: »

How people can still believe this is beyond me

I'm on the wage subsidy scheme too(coming off it next week) my job is absolutely under no threat.

brisan · 27-08-2020 9:56pm

michellie wrote: »

I'm on the wage subsidy scheme too(coming off it next week) my job is absolutely under no threat.

Maybe not YOUR particular job,but by applying for TWSS your employer has admitted that his business is suffering a downturn.
They have stated that they cannot afford to pay all their staff full wages.
The bank knows this and will treat all employees of the business the same.
Cemeteries are full of people who though they could not be done without.
At the best of times NO ONES job is safe ,even more so now.

MoonUnit75 · 27-08-2020 11:01pm

brisan wrote: »

Maybe not YOUR particular job,but by applying for TWSS your employer has admitted that his business is suffering a downturn.
They have stated that they cannot afford to pay all their staff full wages.
The bank knows this and will treat all employees of the business the same.
Cemeteries are full of people who though they could not be done without.
At the best of times NO ONES job is safe ,even more so now.

I don't think they are admitting they can't pay wages. Is it not more that turnover is down and there is less work for staff to do ie. the alternative is lay-offs due to staff not being needed. Of course many businesses in retail and hospitality/tourism are in deep trouble, I'm not denying that. But I don't remember anything in the announcements to say businesses with cash reserves or assets they could offload couldn't apply for the scheme.

I think there's a bit of scaremongering going on, some of it seems to suggest staff in viable businesses with temporary interruption to normal working hours and turnover should just take the hit on the scheme and 'thank their lucky stars they have a job'. For many, it's a non-voluntary pay cut. Many of these businesses will be back making profits either in the very near future or in the next few months while employees will be paying back the extra tax for at least a year and maybe two.

I think there are at least a minority of businesses who saw free money being waved in their faces and thought better to have it when the course of this pandemic is uncertain.

Put on Wage Subsidy Scheme - Will this affect mortgage application?

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