Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

D.L.R. · 13-05-2020 3:39pm

marno21 wrote: »

Where did Donohue float cancelling/delaying the project? He said on Newstalk Breakfast that they may not be able to commit to the original timelines as the pre-construction phases of the project are being disrupted by the coronavirus lockdown.\

I read a quote last week, something along the lines of long-fingering Metro while the economic fallout is dealt with.

Podge_irl · 13-05-2020 4:34pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

I read a quote last week, something along the lines of long-fingering Metro while the economic fallout is dealt with.

This quote?

"It's possible Shane that some of those projects may be differed for reasons that are beyond my control.

"For reasons that, for example, large companies might decide themselves regarding do they want to stay in procurement processes, are they still in a position to deliver against commitments they've made with governments?

"So that possibility is there."

"But my intention going into this is to try to preserve as much of our big capital commitments as I can.

Cause that isn't floating a delay as an option, just highlighting the risk of an unavoidable one.

Kellyconor1982 · 13-05-2020 4:58pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

I think that you’re conflating party policy with the views of certain members. I. am pretty sure that Fianna Fáil doesn’t object to Metrolink.

One or two of their candidates in the recent election did (Jim O’Callaghan and Deirdre Conroy spring to mind) but equally plenty of others support it.

One dissenting voice does not speak for everyone.

I don’t think any of the parties are against the Metrolink plans as they currently stand.

The issue is how to deal with the area directly south of the city centre which will require modified plans (not least due to the central sewer along the canal precluding any metro line from coming above ground at Charlemont).

Sorry I wrote that badly. My point was that Fianna Fail don't appear to gain anything by objecting to Metrolink, especially if they are in government and it happens on their watch. It's a good news story.

To be fair, I understand that several FF tds in Dublin were looking to change the route on the southside, but didn't seem to have an issue with the northside aspect to it.

Muahahaha · 13-05-2020 5:12pm

Sean Barrett on Newstalk right now discussing the Metro with Ivan.

Muahahaha · 13-05-2020 5:18pm

Main points from Sean
-dont spend the 4bn because the bus through the Port tunnel will get you to the airport quicker than the Metro
-Only 4,000 construction jobs for the investment whereas we need 400,000 jobs
-National Childrens Hospital overspend will be replicated on Metro
-We dont have the population density to justify it
-
On Busconnects and front gardens Ivan called him a nimby, Sean says "I see the ribbons around the trees"

marno21 · 13-05-2020 5:21pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Main points from Sean
-dont spend the 4bn because the bus through the Port tunnel will get you to the airport quicker than the Metro
-Only 4,000 construction jobs for the investment whereas we need 400,000 jobs
-National Childrens Hospital overspend will be replicated on Metro
-We dont have the population density to justify it
-
On Busconnects and front gardens Ivan called him a nimby, Sean says "I see the ribbons around the trees"

Ah give me a break. The same old ****e.

I only caught the end where he was describing the M17/M18 scheme as a social unemployment scheme and these projects should be assessed based on the cost per job created. Such ****e.

LXFlyer · 13-05-2020 5:32pm

I would not give Sean Barrett the light of day when it comes to transport investment.

He frankly is against any investment in rail whatsoever.

He and McCarthy are peas in a pod in that regard and should be ignored due to their internal bias.

donvito99 · 13-05-2020 5:35pm

You could set your watch by the Doheny & Nesbitt economists being asked by the media to vent about public transport projects.

These people have effectively presided over or advised those presiding over public policy for decades and as such we have them to thank for crippling congestion. The place is a mess, and we still seek out their opinions?

Late 70s: "DART? Not needed, overkill".
Late 90s: "Luas? Don't need it, we already have DART. Overkill, buses will do."
2010s: "Metro-Lite? Shure we already have the Luas and the DART."
2020: "BusConnects? MetroLink? Shure we have DART and Luas, and the Port Tunnel is there, and what about the ribbons...?"

landofthetree · 13-05-2020 5:44pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Main points from Sean
-dont spend the 4bn because the bus through the Port tunnel will get you to the airport quicker than the Metro
-Only 4,000 construction jobs for the investment whereas we need 400,000 jobs
-National Childrens Hospital overspend will be replicated on Metro
-We dont have the population density to justify it
-
On Busconnects and front gardens Ivan called him a nimby, Sean says "I see the ribbons around the trees"

Not all capital projects have cost overruns.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/new-140m-mental-health-facility-is-in-budget-and-is-on-time-37821944.html

The bill for the new central mental hospital - the construction of which is under way in north Co Dublin - is currently in line with its projected cost of €140m.

Construction on the €368m Luas Cross City line began in 2013, and it was delivered on time and on budget in late 2017, a rarity for such a complex scheme.

https://constructionnews.ie/luas-cross-city-line-john-sisk-son/

Plus on the density thing- maybe build apartments/ houses along the route instead of having people commuting from towns 50 miles away.

Zebra3 · 13-05-2020 5:53pm

donvito99 wrote: »

You could set your watch by the Doheny & Nesbitt economists being asked by the media to vent about public transport projects.

These people have effectively presided over or advised those presiding over public policy for decades and as such we have them to thank for crippling congestion. The place is a mess, and we still seek out their opinions?

Late 70s: "DART? Not needed, overkill".
Late 90s: "Luas? Don't need it, we already have DART. Overkill, buses will do."
2010s: "Metro-Lite? Shure we already have the Luas and the DART."
2020: "BusConnects? MetroLink? Shure we have DART and Luas, and the Port Tunnel is there, and what about the ribbons...?"

Do these people ever visit other cities such as Copenhagen or Munich? :rolleyes:

Sam Russell · 13-05-2020 6:01pm

Zebra3 wrote: »

Do these people ever visit other cities such as Copenhagen or Munich? :rolleyes:

or even travel by public transport in their own city.

Michael McDowel (vested interest against Metrolink) equated the Metrolink with the bus/coach service from the airport - clearly never had to travel on it. How could anyone compare an hourly or half hourly service with a metro every 2 min service - or a service the can go reliably from the airport to city centre in 20 mins vs the coach that takes 40 min in zero traffic to anything over an hour in congestion.

Hard to believe these jokers are listened to at all.

madbeanman · 13-05-2020 6:16pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

or even travel by public transport in their own city.

Michael McDowel (vested interest against Metrolink) equated the Metrolink with the bus/coach service from the airport - clearly never had to travel on it. How could anyone compare an hourly or half hourly service with a metro every 2 min service - or a service the can go reliably from the airport to city centre in 20 mins vs the coach that takes 40 min in zero traffic to anything over an hour in congestion.

Hard to believe these jokers are listened to at all.

I don't think that that is what the person was doing. I think they were talking about public finances rather than saying the service is equivalent.

Sam Russell · 13-05-2020 6:21pm

madbeanman wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

or even travel by public transport in their own city.

Michael McDowel (vested interest against Metrolink) equated the Metrolink with the bus/coach service from the airport - clearly never had to travel on it. How could anyone compare an hourly or half hourly service with a metro every 2 min service - or a service the can go reliably from the airport to city centre in 20 mins vs the coach that takes 40 min in zero traffic to anything over an hour in congestion.

Hard to believe these jokers are listened to at all.

I don't think that that is what the person was doing. I think they were talking about public finances rather than saying the service is equivalent.

It is what MD and CMcC said at the time when the Metrolink project was launched.

They are against any rail based infrastructure, and against public spending in general.

Muahahaha · 13-05-2020 7:31pm

donvito99 wrote: »

You could set your watch by the Doheny & Nesbitt economists being asked by the media to vent about public transport projects.

These people have effectively presided over or advised those presiding over public policy for decades and as such we have them to thank for crippling congestion. The place is a mess, and we still seek out their opinions?

It must be an easy job for McCarthy and Barrett being advisers on transport to the government. All they have to do is supply the answer the politicans want, that then gives the politican political cover to do nothing and hence they keep returning to them again and again because they'll consistently give the answer that they require. Its like some kind of merry go round where everyone on it is insane.

LXFlyer · 13-05-2020 7:36pm

landofthetree wrote: »

Not all capital projects have cost overruns.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/new-140m-mental-health-facility-is-in-budget-and-is-on-time-37821944.html

The bill for the new central mental hospital - the construction of which is under way in north Co Dublin - is currently in line with its projected cost of €140m.

Construction on the €368m Luas Cross City line began in 2013, and it was delivered on time and on budget in late 2017, a rarity for such a complex scheme.

https://constructionnews.ie/luas-cross-city-line-john-sisk-son/

Plus on the density thing- maybe build apartments/ houses along the route instead of having people commuting from towns 50 miles away.

Virtually every Irish Rail capital investment project of recent times has been delivered on budget also.

Zebra3 · 13-05-2020 8:44pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

or even travel by public transport in their own city.

Michael McDowel (vested interest against Metrolink) equated the Metrolink with the bus/coach service from the airport - clearly never had to travel on it. How could anyone compare an hourly or half hourly service with a metro every 2 min service - or a service the can go reliably from the airport to city centre in 20 mins vs the coach that takes 40 min in zero traffic to anything over an hour in congestion.

Hard to believe these jokers are listened to at all.

I'll hazard a guess that the journalists who interview them don't use public transport either.

D.L.R. · 13-05-2020 10:28pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

This quote?

Cause that isn't floating a delay as an option, just highlighting the risk of an unavoidable one.

If there's a will there's a way. But that's the problem. The political will for a metro system has always been wishy washy.

Podge_irl · 14-05-2020 9:27am

D.L.R. wrote: »

If there's a will there's a way. But that's the problem. The political will for a metro system has always been wishy washy.

If a contractor pulls out of a contract because of force majeure, or indeed if multiple ones do, or there is a mandated order to stop working on aspects of a project, then there will be a delay. That is unavoidable.

There is absolutely zero indication of a deliberate delay, or a choice to delay by the government. And it is most definitely not suggesting to delay the project "while they deal with the economic fallout".

It is there, in plain words - But my intention going into this is to try to preserve as much of our big capital commitments as I can.

D.L.R. · 14-05-2020 11:52am

Podge_irl wrote: »

If a contractor pulls out of a contract because of force majeure, or indeed if multiple ones do, or there is a mandated order to stop working on aspects of a project, then there will be a delay. That is unavoidable.

There is absolutely zero indication of a deliberate delay, or a choice to delay by the government. And it is most definitely not suggesting to delay the project "while they deal with the economic fallout".

It is there, in plain words - But my intention going into this is to try to preserve as much of our big capital commitments as I can.

No he used the word defer. That's different to a technical delay.

Podge_irl · 14-05-2020 12:17pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

No he used the word defer. That's different to a technical delay.

No it isn't. This is just people desperately looking for things to preemptively complain about. If they need to re-open tenders it will cause delays. That is unavoidable.

Again, the far more relevant part of what he said is this

And those things - not only are they really important socially - but they're also an essential element of how we can rebuild our economy.

There has been no public indication that metrolink will be voluntarily delayed/deferred/cancelled.

Sam Russell · 14-05-2020 12:51pm

The really big spending only starts when the TBM goes underground. That will not happen for a few years yet. Also the big spending will be small change to the current Covid-19 spending.

We will need large infrastructure spending to get the economy back. Plus we can borrow for next to nothing on such projects.

Yellow_Fern · 14-05-2020 1:45pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

The really big spending only starts when the TBM goes underground. That will not happen for a few years yet. Also the big spending will be small change to the current Covid-19 spending.

We will need large infrastructure spending to get the economy back. Plus we can borrow for next to nothing on such projects.

Large infrastructure spending is money that will have to repaid. History tells us that stimulus spending isnt supported by evidence. Look through history. The Metrolink will be an enormous bill but is important to go through with it because it will make life in Dublin more bearable. A downturn is a good time to build because prices might be cheaper but it will no bearing on our export driven economy.

donvito99 · 14-05-2020 1:49pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

History tells us that stimulus spending isnt supported by evidence. Look through history.

You keep saying stuff like this without supplying evidence yourself.

In any case, please tell us exactly why spending via infrastructure projects does not stimulate the economy?

Sam Russell · 14-05-2020 2:41pm

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

Large infrastructure spending is money that will have to repaid. History tells us that stimulus spending isnt supported by evidence. Look through history. The Metrolink will be an enormous bill but is important to go through with it because it will make life in Dublin more bearable. A downturn is a good time to build because prices might be cheaper but it will no bearing on our export driven economy.

The countryside is littered with famine walls built to provide employment for starving workers who could barely walk let alone work. Canals were also built to provide work along routes where there was no commercial prospects.

However. Metrolink is needed anyway, stimulus or not. History tells us that underground railways always provide a worthwhile investment.

plodder · 14-05-2020 3:09pm

donvito99 wrote: »

You could set your watch by the Doheny & Nesbitt economists being asked by the media to vent about public transport projects.

These people have effectively presided over or advised those presiding over public policy for decades and as such we have them to thank for crippling congestion. The place is a mess, and we still seek out their opinions?

They are the go to people when you want the bean-counter perspective. They can always come up with a dozen reasons why not to do something, which sadly is what happened when they were listened to in the past.

In a way though, notwithstanding Eamon Ryan's previous issues with it, this could be a great opportunity for FF, FG and of course the Greens to get the credit for kicking off decent public transport for Dublin with MN.

D.L.R. · 14-05-2020 4:17pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

No it isn't. This is just people desperately looking for things to preemptively complain about. If they need to re-open tenders it will cause delays. That is unavoidable.

Again, the far more relevant part of what he said is this

There has been no public indication that metrolink will be voluntarily delayed/deferred/cancelled.

Deferral and technical delay are not the same. Deferral means taking it off the agenda for a full electoral cycle, at least. As opposed to delaying for say 18 months.

My feeling is he was floating deferral. Perhaps its just a negotiating position, and I believe he wants to proceed, but I also believe FG would sacrifice metro in exchange for a program for govt.

Podge_irl · 14-05-2020 6:21pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

Deferral and technical delay are not the same. Deferral means taking it off the agenda for a full electoral cycle, at least. As opposed to delaying for say 18 months.

My feeling is he was floating deferral. Perhaps its just a negotiating position, and I believe he wants to proceed, but I also believe FG would sacrifice metro in exchange for a program for govt.

You are just making up definitions now. Taken in context this is clearly not what he meant. Anyway, who would be asking them to sacrifice metrolink for a program for govt? The Greens are hardly going to demand it.

What he was "floating" was that he can't guarantee it will run on the same schedule as planned. The finance minister, the transport minister and the taoiseach have all said they plan for it to continue however. They have specifically highlighted the benefit of building it and the contrast to 09 when we couldn't borrow. FF are not opposed to it (at least the northside element).

People are hearing things that are not being said.

D.L.R. · 14-05-2020 7:44pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

You are just making up definitions now. Taken in context this is clearly not what he meant. Anyway, who would be asking them to sacrifice metrolink for a program for govt? The Greens are hardly going to demand it.

What he was "floating" was that he can't guarantee it will run on the same schedule as planned. The finance minister, the transport minister and the taoiseach have all said they plan for it to continue however. They have specifically highlighted the benefit of building it and the contrast to 09 when we couldn't borrow. FF are not opposed to it (at least the northside element).

People are hearing things that are not being said.

Firstly, stop calling me people.

Second, deferral/shelving/cancellation (call it what you want) is definitely still on the table as one financial mitigation option. Remember, DU wasn't cancelled, it was "deferred". And look at the DU situation today. Where is the revised plan FG promised? Where indeed.

This is not "unavoidable". Its a choice. FG chose to shelve DU. They can choose to shelve Metro. You can believe their couched words if you want.

I'll believe Metrolink is happening when the TBMS are in the ground.

MJohnston · 14-05-2020 8:45pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

Firstly, stop calling me people.

Second, deferral/shelving/cancellation (call it what you want) is definitely still on the table as one financial mitigation option. Remember, DU wasn't cancelled, it was "deferred". And look at the DU situation today. Where is the revised plan FG promised? Where indeed.

This is not "unavoidable". Its a choice. FG chose to shelve DU. They can choose to shelve Metro. You can believe their couched words if you want.

I'll believe Metrolink is happening when the TBMS are in the ground.

But you're attributing all of this "feeling" that you're having to an interview in which Donohoe said nothing to indicate that he was heading in that direction. While you're free to hold onto your pessimism, it's not backed up by what was said, and using that interview as some sort of proof is just wrongheaded.

It's fairly inevitable that Metrolink is going to face some technical delays, at this stage I would be very surprised if it didn't.

D.L.R. · 14-05-2020 9:09pm

MJohnston wrote: »

But you're attributing all of this "feeling" that you're having to an interview in which Donohoe said nothing to indicate that he was heading in that direction. While you're free to hold onto your pessimism, it's not backed up by what was said, and using that interview as some sort of proof is just wrongheaded.

It's fairly inevitable that Metrolink is going to face some technical delays, at this stage I would be very surprised if it didn't.

My cynicism isn't just from the Donohue quote. Its been carefully curated from years and years of disappointment and frustration at the Irish state's track record regards Dublin PT.

TBMs in the ground. Even then I'll be keeping an eye to make sure they keep turning.

Jamie2k9 · 19-05-2020 10:12pm

I don't follow this in detail however this article from 2006 was an interesting read and Eamon Ryan's view in 2006 verses 2020...

https://www.lucidchart.com/documents/edit/75e72deb-afc5-4b42-8d0a-874ef601cc5d/0_0

Idbatterim · 14-06-2020 2:47pm

Good news on Metrolink front. Thank god for the greens, we might start catching up 9n being decades behind europe...

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/draft-programme-for-government-document-reveals-green-plans-for-spend-on-bus-and-rail-39284582.html

I actually said on this thread months back, the greens price for government should be Metrolink! The density permitted withinnwalkimg distance of the lime should be massively increased and stop the ridiculous unsustainable sprawl. The need to fund cost new infrastructure and services etc

cgcsb · 14-06-2020 11:34pm

Programmes for government are almost always works of fiction though. The details were getting from this government are fanciful at best:

- direct provision to end but no mention of a replacement scheme of how it'll be funded

- increase in foreign aid but no mention of how funding will happen

- an end to gas exploration in Ireland and an end to plans to import gas in tankers but again no mention of what replacement will be bought.

It's all fanciful fluff without any real commitment or realistic plans to achieve same.

Yellow_Fern · 14-06-2020 11:46pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Good news on Metrolink front. Thank god for the greens, we might start catching up 9n being decades behind europe...

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/draft-programme-for-government-document-reveals-green-plans-for-spend-on-bus-and-rail-39284582.html

I actually said on this thread months back, the greens price for government should be Metrolink! The density permitted withinnwalkimg distance of the lime should be massively increased and stop the ridiculous unsustainable sprawl. The need to fund cost new infrastructure and services etc

The indulgence of their welfare spending endangers infrastructure spending sadly.

LXFlyer · 15-06-2020 1:59pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Programmes for government are almost always works of fiction though. The details were getting from this government are fanciful at best:

- direct provision to end but no mention of a replacement scheme of how it'll be funded

- increase in foreign aid but no mention of how funding will happen

- an end to gas exploration in Ireland and an end to plans to import gas in tankers but again no mention of what replacement will be bought.

It's all fanciful fluff without any real commitment or realistic plans to achieve same.

I think to a degree you are conflating election manifestos and programmes for government.

Programmes for government are as close as you can get to what the parties are realistically planning to do.

Failure to deliver on the commitments can (and has in the past) lead to coalitions collapsing.

They are never going to contain line-by-line level details but they certainly give a broad indication of what the parties agree to focus on.

Munurty · 15-06-2020 2:04pm

The draft programme for government mentions the following:

Specifically, the Government will prioritise plans for the delivery of Metrolink, Luas and other light
rail expansion, DART expansion and interconnector and Bus Connects in Dublin, Cork, Galway and
Limerick.

Draft programme for government can be found at:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/strongly-green-influenced-programme-for-government-drawn-up-1.4279051

cgcsb · 15-06-2020 3:21pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

I think to a degree you are conflating election manifestos and programmes for government.

Programmes for government are as close as you can get to what the parties are realistically planning to do.

Failure to deliver on the commitments can (and has in the past) lead to coalitions collapsing.

They are never going to contain line-by-line level details but they certainly give a broad indication of what the parties agree to focus on.

Both are often works of fiction. I do hope most of this is delivered. When it comes to energy though, the green party need a bit of a crash course on how the grid currently works and what is possible, because they don't seem to know at the minute.

noelfirl · 15-06-2020 4:11pm

'the Government will prioritise plans for the delivery of' =/= 'the Government will deliver'

I'd stick with the old adage - until you see hoarding around building sites, presume it's not happening and be pleasantly surprised if otherwise.

In fact when I see 'interconnector' (lower case i), I can't help but think the conversation went a bit "what was the name of that thing from the noughties, the DART tunnel thing?" when they were drawing it up.

Sam Russell · 15-06-2020 4:28pm

noelfirl wrote: »

'the Government will prioritise plans for the delivery of' =/= 'the Government will deliver'

I'd stick with the old adage - until you see hoarding around building sites, presume it's not happening and be pleasantly surprised if otherwise.

In fact when I see 'interconnector' (lower case i), I can't help but think the conversation went a bit "what was the name of that thing from the noughties, the DART tunnel thing?" when they were drawing it up.

Or 'What do you call one of those electical things to get electricity from France?'

Kellyconor1982 · 15-06-2020 6:25pm

Today feels more positive than negative to be honest. Metrolink in it's current form is Fine Gael's baby. Fianna Fail stand to gain absolutely nothing by opposing it and were the Greens to put a spanner in the works then they would have essentially waved goodbye to pretty much their entire core support and lost any credibility.

They are saying the project will be prioritised which given the economic situation is a real positive. I felt a few weeks ago this could be delayed until 2029 or 2030. Now, I'm confident it will be 2027. Not perfect in a German or Dutch context, but for Ireland it feels like a victory.

Once this line is built, I really think things could move fast, even if it will be a decade-15 years away for the rest of the city.

Peregrine · 15-06-2020 8:00pm

Prioritise means not cancelled and still on track (pardon the pun). Which is good. Realistically, there's very little scope to actually prioritise MetroLink or BusConnects like the PfG says.

Pete_Cavan · 15-06-2020 8:07pm

Anything along the lines of "undertake a review of the project" is always the kiss of death. Metrolink not getting that is as good as we could have hoped for. The wheels are already in motion and will continue as such for the foreseeable, it's the best we could have hoped for.

Grandeeod · 15-06-2020 8:41pm

Eamonn Ryan said this morning that none of the programme has been costed yet and it was a case of agreeing things in order to form a Government.

Podge_irl · 15-06-2020 9:09pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Eamonn Ryan said this morning that none of the programme has been costed yet and it was a case of agreeing things in order to form a Government.

Well then its good the Metrolink has been prioritised then, as we should see other plans falling away first.

Grandeeod · 15-06-2020 9:30pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Well then its good the Metrolink has been prioritised then, as we should see other plans falling away first.

Metrolink is part of the programme for Government. None of the programme for Government has been costed yet. None of it whatsoever.

I'm not some anti Metro head, but reality needs to be taken into account.

Sam Russell · 15-06-2020 9:43pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Metrolink is part of the programme for Government. None of the programme for Government has been costed yet. None of it whatsoever.

I'm not some anti Metro head, but reality needs to be taken into account.

Well, Metrolink is a project that could attract EU funding, particularly in a post-Covid19 economic expansionist environment.

Muahahaha · 15-06-2020 9:57pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Programmes for government are almost always works of fiction though. The details were getting from this government are fanciful at best:

- direct provision to end but no mention of a replacement scheme of how it'll be funded

- increase in foreign aid but no mention of how funding will happen

- an end to gas exploration in Ireland and an end to plans to import gas in tankers but again no mention of what replacement will be bought.

It's all fanciful fluff without any real commitment or realistic plans to achieve same.

They were the two that stood out to me. Theres a fairly good chance there is a huge gas field off Kerry. Without exploration to find it we'll just instead end up buying gas from Russia. This will cost the economy money plus the carbon emission to get it here from Russia rather than Kerry. .

Plus the Greens dont seem to realise that many Direct Provision centres like Mosney are locked into 20 year contracts. It wont matter if they close them down tomorrow the suppliers will still have to be paid millions per annum and that will be money down the drain. And now asylum seekers will have to be housed in much more expensive apartments and houses. Again this will cost the economy serious money at current rents. Its all pie in the sky stuff.
.
Overall a good day for Metro though I feel, provided Eamon doesnt get his crayons out again to swerve it to Rathfarnham.

cgcsb · 16-06-2020 12:12am

Kellyconor1982 wrote: »

Today feels more positive than negative to be honest. Metrolink in it's current form is Fine Gael's baby. Fianna Fail stand to gain absolutely nothing by opposing it and were the Greens to put a spanner in the works then they would have essentially waved goodbye to pretty much their entire core support and lost any credibility.

They are saying the project will be prioritised which given the economic situation is a real positive. I felt a few weeks ago this could be delayed until 2029 or 2030. Now, I'm confident it will be 2027. Not perfect in a German or Dutch context, but for Ireland it feels like a victory.

Once this line is built, I really think things could move fast, even if it will be a decade-15 years away for the rest of the city.

Metrolink might happen but there is a 0% chance of it being delivered in 2027. We would have to have a railway order, finance and a tenderer now to meet that target.

Podge_irl · 16-06-2020 9:46am

Grandeeod wrote: »

Metrolink is part of the programme for Government. None of the programme for Government has been costed yet. None of it whatsoever.

I'm not some anti Metro head, but reality needs to be taken into account.

It is an already live project and will be prioritised. None of the PfG may be costed, but other things will fall away before metrolink.

You are not an anti-Metro head but you are clearly a metro doom monger. It may, ultimately, not happen but people hopping on every single potential issue and proclaiming it the death knell is tiresome.

Amirani · 16-06-2020 12:31pm

Worth mentioning as well that Metrolink now seems to be quite dependent on the Green membership voting in favour of the Programme For Government.

If they vote no, it's likely that FG and FF will have to try negotiate a new PFG with the rural independents, which would likely be far less favourable towards public transport projects in Dublin.

Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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