The Electric Car

ScumLord · 11-11-2015 1:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As for plugging in the car ? if someone finds that too difficult or a chore then there's something wrong.

You have made it work for you and you're reaping the rewards. But if you're going to convince people to switch the car needs to beat the diesel hands down in every way. It's clear as is that electric hasn't convinced to many families to switch.

It's not about it being too difficult, it's that it currently take management to run an electric, you have to plan out journeys and there's very little margin for error. Imagine a big family, the mother goes to work, picks up kids, gets them inside, gets the homework done, dinner on, it's all go, go, go, it would be easy for a busy person like that to simply forget about the car, not regularly, but once in awhile. That would be enough to put a lot of people off. Me included, I'd forget my own head if it wasn't attached to my body.

At the moment electric is a workable solution, it's not for everybody yet though, the electrics simply can't meet their demands. I'm fully confident electric is the future though. Like I've already said, electrics are far superior cars in every way bar range. Unfortunately it's a vital part of the purchase decision.

nokia69 · 11-11-2015 1:33pm

ScumLord wrote: »

Tesla still seem to be trialing the technology, just last year Elon was doing demonstrations of the system, comparing it to petrol fills.

Electric cars are still in a minority, very few people have them, it's impossible to say what interest is like. Unless you have links to some surveys of people saying that if they did buy an electric car they'd prefer that the battery is permanently fixed and not possible to quickly swap out.

yes they did a demo last year, the video is on youtube, then after that they were due to start public trials at Harris Ranch in California, so they sent out e-mails to all the Model S drivers in the area asking them if they were interested in the idea, not enough were interested so Tesla seem to have given up on the idea for now, most people seem very happy with the superchargers

they may still be working on it in house, but it looks like they have dropped the idea

ScumLord wrote: »

Yes there is, no company is going to buy a car/van that needs to stop for 30 minutes (at best) every 300km. I don't see most people that live in the country taking a risk on an electric until there's infrastructure. If electric wants to replace combustion it needs to be better than a petrol in every way, including range and ease of refueling.

actually I bet EVs will become very popular company cars, I think you over estimate the distance people drive every day

the top of the range Model S gets over 400km per charge and its very popular, its the best selling car in the US in that price range, which would suggest to me that a large % of people will buy an EV if the price is right and the range is good enough

ScumLord · 11-11-2015 2:02pm

nokia69 wrote: »

actually I bet EVs will become very popular company cars, I think you over estimate the distance people drive every day

the top of the range Model S gets over 400km per charge and its very popular, its the best selling car in the US in that price range, which would suggest to me that a large % of people will buy an EV if the price is right and the range is good enough

I know I would buy an electric over a combustion engine if the range was good. Still though my current car will do 600klm if you drive it flat out and 1200 if you drive it economically. It's a big difference over electric.

Company cars are usually given by sales execs, they do serious mileage, In the British isles they could be going back and over between Ireland and England. After that you have specialists like engineers. They'll more than likely need a van, even a small van wouldn't work with current battery technology. Those guys can't be late, they charge obscene amounts of money, so they'd go with the certainty of a diesel over any cost savings they'd make from an electric.

You can't take risks with transport in business, businesses will spend extra to avoid the risk their employee would be left stranded. Electric just isn't at that stage yet. I did actually look into an electric truck for work. We do have a truck that does a short 5km round trip daily, which isn't good for a combustion engine. An electric would be ideal, there just isn't anything to fit the bill yet.

nokia69 · 11-11-2015 3:21pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I know I would buy an electric over a combustion engine if the range was good. Still though my current car will do 600klm if you drive it flat out and 1200 if you drive it economically. It's a big difference over electric.

that is a big difference, but the difference in cost is massive too, and most people only drive 600km in one go a few times a year, last week a friend of mine went from Dublin to Sligo and back for free in his Leaf

there are times when its obvious that a tech change is about to take place, for example it was clear when DVDs went on sale that VHS was finished, even when the early DVD players cost over 1000 pounds, it was still clear what was going to happen, I saw a DVD player in Tesco last week for 20 euro, its the same with EVs, it will take a while because cars are expensive, if you test drive a Nissan Leaf you might understand what I mean better

ScumLord wrote: »

You can't take risks with transport in business, businesses will spend extra to avoid the risk their employee would be left stranded. Electric just isn't at that stage yet. I did actually look into an electric truck for work. We do have a truck that does a short 5km round trip daily, which isn't good for a combustion engine. An electric would be ideal, there just isn't anything to fit the bill yet.

there are electric trucks in the works, look it up on youtube

the Model S is becoming popular in the UK for some business people doing high mileage, the fuel savings over the life of the car are massive, and the performance is even better then the same price BMWs Audi ect, one calculation I saw said that over 5 years a Model S would save over £20K in fuel costs next to the same priced BMW

the electric car won't be stopped now, the ICE is finished

11-11-2015 3:32pm

Still comparing to ICE range ? I don't get it, the average Irish commute is 16 Kms, throw in the odd trip over 300 Kms this is where fast charging is for.

I know the Model S is supposed to have 600 miles range by 2020 but that's ridiculous, huge waste of resources.

I can't accept that even a busy "mother" with a big family would find it too inconvenient to plug in a car every coupled of days with a 200 mile range car. Even every day jaysus, if that too difficult a task I think people really have issues. I find filling up at home far less inconvenient than going to a petrol station, plug in charge at night, job done.

ScumLord · 11-11-2015 4:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Still comparing to ICE range ? I don't get it, the average Irish commute is 16 Kms, throw in the odd trip over 300 Kms this is where fast charging is for.

I know the Model S is supposed to have 600 miles range by 2020 but that's ridiculous, huge waste of resources.

I can't accept that even a busy "mother" with a big family would find it too inconvenient to plug in a car every coupled of days with a 200 mile range car. Even every day jaysus, if that too difficult a task I think people really have issues. I find filling up at home far less inconvenient than going to a petrol station, plug in charge at night, job done.

You should join the marketing campaign for electric cars, I'm sure telling people they have issues if they prefer the convenience and security of combustion would be a great way of convincing them that electric is the way forward.

How is a model S with a range of 600 miles a waste of resources?

CelticRambler · 11-11-2015 4:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

A 200 mile commute ? I admit the current 70-80 mile range is a bit low and the 90-105 miles of the 30 Kwh but 200 miles ? the average daily commute driven in Ireland is 16 Kms.

I hardly think the world's auto manufacturers are going to base their development strategy on Ireland's commuters!

200 miles/320km - for me, that's just the first leg of a journey. I work short-term contracts and my last three sites were at 660, 400 and 630km from home. I do that on a single tank of petrol. While I generally take a break every two hours/200km and could afford to wait 30 minutes for a recharge, I certainly don't/wouldn't want to be obliged to have to make it a recharging station which almost inevitably will be on a major route, probably a busy service station and getting there, waiting, getting back onto my preferred route will add perhaps an hour or more to my journey.

I don't think there's any conspiracy against electric cars, but because it's not properly storable (batteries don't count, imo) electricy is probably the most wasteful fuel you can use for powering any vehicle. And that's speaking as a fairly ecologically senstive person.

nokia69 · 11-11-2015 6:05pm

ScumLord wrote: »

How is a model S with a range of 600 miles a waste of resources?

well its just not really needed, we will see a 500km Model S in a year or two and 600km is not that far away

I think most people will be more than happy with 200 or 300 mile ranges, drive for 3 hours, charge for 30min, take a walk, use the jacks, maybe drink a cup of tea, then hit the road again, thats more or less what people do now anyway

nokia69 · 11-11-2015 6:10pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

electricy is probably the most wasteful fuel you can use for powering any vehicle. And that's speaking as a fairly ecologically senstive person.

this is just not true, in an ICE even a very good one, most of your energy is lost and never reaches the wheels

you can't really beat an electric motor for efficiency, its one of the most perfect inventions of all time

and the best part is there are plenty of different ways to generate the electricity that powers the motor

ScumLord · 11-11-2015 6:11pm

nokia69 wrote: »

well its just not really needed, we will see a 500km Model S in a year or two and 600km is not that far away

I think most people will be more than happy with 200 or 300 mile ranges, drive for 3 hours, charge for 30min, take a walk, use the jacks, maybe drink a cup of tea, then hit the road again, thats more or less what people do now anyway

I wouldn't buy a car with 200 miles range, it simply wouldn't work for me. The capacity of the batteries will go up, as time goes on. By the time the 600km car comes out they'll probably announce something with 700km. That's just progress, the more range the better. If Tesla could do a thousand km on a charge it would be on a par with combustion cars. At that point it's going to be very hard to ignore electric.

I still think charging is always going to be a huge negative. If electric became popular 50 years ago maybe they could live with a 30 minute wait, but modern people just won't go for that. Waiting around for even 30 minutes would drive me daft.

nokia69 · 11-11-2015 6:30pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I wouldn't buy a car with 200 miles range, it simply wouldn't work for me. The capacity of the batteries will go up, as time goes on. By the time the 600km car comes out they'll probably announce something with 700km. That's just progress, the more range the better. If Tesla could do a thousand km on a charge it would be on a par with combustion cars. At that point it's going to be very hard to ignore electric.

I still think charging is always going to be a huge negative. If electric became popular 50 years ago maybe they could live with a 30 minute wait, but modern people just won't go for that. Waiting around for even 30 minutes would drive me daft.

but who does 1000km a day, everyday, its just not needed, Monday to Friday drive to work and back, then on the weekends maybe take longer journeys, thats what the vast majority do

so once people can afford an EV with a 200 mile range many will chose electric, the Model S if proof of this

CelticRambler · 11-11-2015 8:42pm

nokia69 wrote: »

this is just not true, in an ICE even a very good one, most of your energy is lost and never reaches the wheels

you can't really beat an electric motor for efficiency, its one of the most perfect inventions of all time

You're forgetting to take account of all the energy lost in getting your kWs to the plug (not to mention the environmental impact, e.g. those Aisan clams in the Shannon that they mentioned on the Sean O'Rourke's programme this morning)

nokia69 wrote: »

but who does 1000km a day, everyday, its just not needed

It doesn't have to be an every day need, but when you need it, it has to be there. That's the convenience of petrol/diesel: you can leave the car sitting on the drive (or in a car park) for three weeks and know that it'll be fully "charged" and ready to go the night you decide to set off on a 500/750/1000km journey. And if you think you're going run dry before you get to your destination, you can always bring a full jerry can in the boot (like I did on my last cross-country trip because I didn't want to be messing around with tempermental automatic credit-card pumps at three in the morning)

Besides, anyone who "needs" their car for <20km daily commuting will be using self-driving (electric!

) vehicles before ever there's a long-distance solution.

11-11-2015 9:41pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

You're forgetting to take account of all the energy lost in getting your kWs to the plug (not to mention the environmental impact, e.g. those Aisan clams in the Shannon that they mentioned on the Sean O'Rourke's programme this morning)

You're forgetting all the energy lost in the refining of petrol and diesel and the wasted LPG burned off at the refinery not to mention the toxic chemicals used. Then the transportation of this fuel to the petrol stations or the transport of Crude in big oil tankers. Electric wins by miles. Then the Engine burns that fuel at only 20-35 % efficiency.

Electric increases generation efficiency by being able to use excess energy at night and use the wind that would need to be turned off because there is no use for it. There are a good few windy days 30-50% of our electricity comes from wind alone, that's a staggering amount and even though there are days where it's generally calm it greatly reduces our need for imported fossil fuels this wind energy is increasing all the time. We have a lot of generating capacity for many thousands of electrics to charge at night.

CelticRambler wrote: »

but when you need it, it has to be there.

That capacity will be there when you need it because you will most likely not need this full capacity daily and use maybe 20-50 miles out of 200 max, first charge at 200 miles, 170 miles in 30 mins , that's a lot of miles in one day.

My not be suitable for you, but it would be for the majority of people.

nokia69 · 11-11-2015 10:18pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

You're forgetting to take account of all the energy lost in getting your kWs to the plug (not to mention the environmental impact, e.g. those Aisan clams in the Shannon that they mentioned on the Sean O'Rourke's programme this morning)

I'm aware of transmission loses, it doesn't make enough of a difference to bridge the gap between the ICE and an electric motor, people run the numbers on this stuff all the time, the BEV always wins

MrPudding · 11-11-2015 10:39pm

nokia69 wrote: »

that is a big difference, but the difference in cost is massive too, and most people only drive 600km in one go a few times a year, last week a friend of mine went from Dublin to Sligo and back for free in his Leaf

there are times when its obvious that a tech change is about to take place, for example it was clear when DVDs went on sale that VHS was finished, even when the early DVD players cost over 1000 pounds, it was still clear what was going to happen, I saw a DVD player in Tesco last week for 20 euro, its the same with EVs, it will take a while because cars are expensive, if you test drive a Nissan Leaf you might understand what I mean better

there are electric trucks in the works, look it up on youtube

the Model S is becoming popular in the UK for some business people doing high mileage, the fuel savings over the life of the car are massive, and the performance is even better then the same price BMWs Audi ect, one calculation I saw said that over 5 years a Model S would save over £20K in fuel costs next to the same priced BMW I

the electric car won't be stopped now, the ICE is finished

I did Buckingham to Edinburgh and back in my Zoe. In total that cost me just under £2.50.

Also. I have never, in over a year of EV ownership, forgotten to charge my car. I have 4 kids, a full time job and I am studying as well. I am the definition of busy, yet we always manage.

I am quite lucky living where I am. My home electricity is from 100% renewable. It is a little pricier, but I don't mind paying a small premium. The network of rapid chargers I use for out of range trips, which I do quite frequently, are also 100% renewable. Same company in fact, but the network of rapid chargers is free to use.

Using an electric car does take a little adjustment, it it is t difficult and it isn't that much of a pain. Swapping all the little journeys where we don't need 7 seats from our voyager to the Zoe saves us hundreds of pounds a month. And all it takes is a little readjustment.

EVs would, realistically, suit an huge number of people. But people are too unsure and not will to actually make the effort to really look at it, and/or not willing to make the relativly minor changes they would need to reap the benefits.

20% of new car sales in Norway last year were EV. They don't have different cars or battery technology than is on offer in Ireland or the UK. I would be willing to speculate the the typical journeys most people take are pretty similar too. They simply have a government that is willing to invest in the infrastructure and education that is needed.

If your attitude is "my vehicle need to have a range of 1000kms" even though you have never driven 1000kms in a single sitting in your life, or you think that plugging your car into a wall socket when you get home is too demanding and a little too complicated to manage, then you are probably right, EVs aren't for you. Which is a shame.

MrP

CelticRambler · 12-11-2015 1:00am

nokia69 wrote: »

I'm aware of transmission loses, it doesn't make enough of a difference to bridge the gap between the ICE and an electric motor, people run the numbers on this stuff all the time, the BEV always wins

I'm not talking about just transmission losses, but the whole supply chain. However, that's a topic that's been done to death on other threads, and some people are still convinced that electricity is inherently green and clean! :pac:

Deleted User wrote: »

That capacity will be there when you need it because you will most likely not need this full capacity daily and use maybe 20-50 miles out of 200 max, first charge at 200 miles, 170 miles in 30 mins , that's a lot of miles in one day.

My not be suitable for you, but it would be for the majority of people.

MrPudding wrote: »

If your attitude is "my vehicle need to have a range of 1000kms" even though you have never driven 1000kms in a single sitting in your life, or you think that plugging your car into a wall socket when you get home is too demanding and a little too complicated to manage, then you are probably right, EVs aren't for you. Which is a shame.

Both of these statements illustrate an Irish myopia - a bit like people getting all het up about this morning's "carmageddon" and traffic backed up for ten or fifteen km. :rolleyes: Here on the continent, we regularly get tailbacks on our motorways of 50 to 100km, and it's perfectly normal for people to drive 500-1000km in a single day. Paris to Marseille is 750km and that's a route where co-voiturage (car sharing) is really popular. Most families operate a "relief driver" system to cut down on the journey times. You need to forget about quick flits from Dublin to Galway as the "typical driver" model and look at how the left-hand drivers use their vehicles.

Even if it was theoretically possible to set out with a full charge, get 300km down the road and then re-charge in 30 minutes, what's that going to do? I'll have everyone arriving at the same point on the major commuter axes, expecting to plug in AND stay plugged in for at least half an hour, all drawing current at the same time. You're talking hundreds of vehicles, thousands of megawatts and an awful lot of new tarmac being laid to cope with these pitstops. Who's going to pay for that?

MrPudding wrote: »

EVs would, realistically, suit an huge number of people. But people are too unsure and not will to actually make the effort to really look at it, and/or not willing to make the relativly minor changes they would need to reap the benefits.

Agreed - there are a huge number of people that EVs would suit. And these are exactly the same people that will want/need/benefit from small(er) self-driving vehicles, so that's where the investment and research is being directed.

12-11-2015 8:35pm

I forgot , because I never forgot to plug in the leaf I never thought of it.

I you have a timer set and forget to plug in the car it will E-mail you to tell you to plug it in, no excuse !

nokia69 · 12-11-2015 10:38pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

I'm not talking about just transmission losses, but the whole supply chain. However, that's a topic that's been done to death on other threads, and some people are still convinced that electricity is inherently green and clean! :pac:

some people might be, but I'm not one of them, it can be generated by so many different sources some clean some filthy

however when it comes to transport its cleaner than Petrol or Diesel

12-11-2015 11:38pm

nokia69 wrote: »

some people might be, but I'm not one of them, it can be generated by so many different sources some clean some filthy

however when it comes to transport its cleaner than Petrol or Diesel

Many times cleaner, Crude is transported from the oil wells to the refineries, thats a lot of energy, then refined, again, a lot of energy not to mention the chemicals used and the LPG that't burned off. Then it's transported to the petrol stations and burned in cars at 20-35 % efficiency at best. Less with so many short trips driven. Why not use that electricity used at the refineries to charge batteries ?

The last few nights up to 50% of Ireland's electricity has been met by wind and there are many nights up to 50% has powered the leaf, today 45% of our energy has come from wind, at least for peak production, currently 45 % is still coming from wind. There's no way petrol, diesel or hydrogen is remotely as clean and the leaf uses that energy at up to 85% efficiency. Yes there are days the wind production is 3-5% but Ireland on average is a windy place and a lot more than it's not and we're adding more wind energy year after year but we do need to start adding solar which is many times cheaper and yes, Solar PV does work in Ireland, maybe not as good as Spain but considering the cost is substantially cheaper than wind we should not ignore it.

shedweller · 13-11-2015 12:13am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I forgot , because I never forgot to plug in the leaf I never thought of it.

I you have a timer set and forget to plug in the car it will E-mail you to tell you to plug it in, no excuse !

We dont see people complaining too much about having to recharge their phones. Recharging a car is barely a bigger deal. And your phone doesn't email you.
You just see 10% on the battery logo and go "feck! Need plug!!"
Nah, all this negativity to ev's is propaganda. There's a lot to be lost by us all going ev.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 13-11-2015 12:28am

ScumLord wrote: »

You should join the marketing campaign for electric cars, I'm sure telling people they have issues if they prefer the convenience and security of combustion would be a great way of convincing them that electric is the way forward.

How is a model S with a range of 600 miles a waste of resources?

Can you explain what you mean by the security of a combustion?

shedweller · 13-11-2015 1:03am

Jude Broad Drink wrote: »

Can you explain what you mean by the security of a combustion?

The lack of range anxiety with a car that uses internal combustion as a means of propelling a vehicle. EV's suffer a little at the moment. But not by much and not for long, i suspect!

ScumLord · 13-11-2015 3:00pm

nokia69 wrote: »

but who does 1000km a day, everyday,

I've already said electric is fine for going to work and some local journeys. I've already said electric cars are superior in every way bar range. People here seem to be upset because I won't admit electric is perfect and is all things to all people.

MrPudding wrote: »

Also. I have never, in over a year of EV ownership, forgotten to charge my car. I have 4 kids, a full time job and I am studying as well. I am the definition of busy, yet we always manage.

That's great for you, it doesn't mean that one day you won't forget or that every single other person that's ever bought an electric has always remembered to charge their cars.

The bottom line for me is I'm not replacing my car with 1200km range with a car that has 200km range.

Jude Broad Drink wrote: »

Can you explain what you mean by the security of a combustion?

The infrastructure. If I need fuel I'm with 2 minutes of a petrol station and even out the country I'm 10 minutes away from a 24 hour. If something goes wrong with my car I know I can get parts locally, and I know there's at least half a dozen guys near me that can fix the car. If I don't like what one of them charge I can go to someone else.

A combustion engine can have a part fail and the car won't die completely. What happens when an electric motor fails? They're reliable enough that that's not going to be a common problem (yet) but it is going to happen at some stage.

There's a lot of unknowns to electrics, they're still relatively new and rare. The last time electrics were pushed in America people had the cars (that they loved) taken back off them and destroyed. A lot of people and business aren't going to risk buying electrics until they know more and electrics have proven themselves.

CelticRambler · 13-11-2015 3:08pm

As a "by-the-by" - I presume you all know that "commuter" EVs are in daily operation in many French cities, variations on the brand Autolib', which was the logical development of Vélolib', what you in Ireland know as the [Dublin] Bike Scheme.

If you're looking for examples of how the infrastructure will or won't cope, you don't have to look very far. Yes, the Autolib' network works great in a city like Paris or a big touristy town like La Rochelle ... but when places like Dublin have only recently copped on to the advantages of easy-access bikes, what kind of political will and financial investment is it going to take to create a nationwide network of usable charging points in Ireland, when even the pro-active French are years away from it?

ScumLord · 13-11-2015 3:24pm

CelticRambler wrote: »

what kind of political will and financial investment is it going to take to create a nationwide network of usable charging points in Ireland, when even the pro-active French are years away from it?

I think we're doing OK, better than I expected anyway. It is hard to pay for an infrastructure that people might use, hopefully, fingers crossed.

I've been surprised by how many electric stations I come across on travels. They seem to be in weird places, but I suppose they're in places like car parks, supermarkets and the like where people would be spending at least half an hour doing something anyway.

I don't think we've seen what electric can do yet. The cars we have now are still a half breed, made to be next generation but still have a foot in the past to be familiar. The Tesla S has set new standards IMO but it's just the first of it's generation, there's so much more to come.

CelticRambler · 13-11-2015 4:41pm

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think we've seen what electric can do yet. The cars we have now are still a half breed, made to be next generation but still have a foot in the past to be familiar. The Tesla S has set new standards IMO but it's just the first of it's generation, there's so much more to come.

I like what Tesla is doing, but I'm 100% convinced that it's too late. The "family car" as we know it is already on the way out; driving, as we know it, is already on the way out. Take the Google car, for example: they've successfully persuaded local legislators to let them get rid of wing and rear-view mirrors because the car isn't ever going to look in them, and the car weighs less and suffers less wind resistance without them (the wing mirrors).

Once we take the leap to living with and using self-driving vehicles, a whole new world of possibilities will open up for design and function, driven by completely different commercial interests to those that dominate the automotive industry today. Autolib is the best known/most used in France, and the cars look "normal" - but the one in La Rochelle is probably a better indicator of what's to come.

String together loads of modules with a 50-100km range and have them pulled by a "locomotive" for long-distance travel (probably the new generation of HGV, an idea already being talked about) and the problem of recharging disappears.

ScumLord · 13-11-2015 4:51pm

The future of electric is limitless, which is sort of the problem at the same time. If there was one obvious way to do electric it would probably be easier to invest in infrastructure. But with each car manufacturer coming up with their own ideas, it makes it hard for third parties to develop infrastructure. Then the companies will say we have new technology on the way, so third parties don't want to start investing in current technology in case it's all for nothing when new tech comes out.

oceanfroggie · 08-04-2020 9:19pm

Jumboman wrote: »

Does anyone believe their is a consipiracy to stop the electric car becoming a viable alternative to the petrol car ?

Not a conspiracy per say, but quite obviously big oil and sections of the legacy ICE industry do not wish to see the EV transition era get established. These interests are spending hundreds of millions seeding the media and micro targeting on social media with scare stories and mis-information about EVs. Often such stories emirate after scientific papers are released from organisations often funded by charitable research foundations, supported by big oil and other ICE hydrocarbon interests. That's just business, just like big tobacco spend literally billions trying to fight the smoking bans now common in many western countries. Ultimately market forces will have their say. If EVs delivery the cost savings as claimed on the tin, they will become mainstream, especially if govts tax the heck out of fossil fuels combined with planned bans on the sale of new ICE's within a decade or so. If EVs do not deliver the promised benefits to the consumer all bets are off. Battery prices need to continue their fall below $100/kWh and increase in density, as most folks charge at home and batteries get bigger, charging speed increases seem less important. Only time will tell, but only a fool would not expect hydrocarbon interests to fight back against EV transition using every tool in their box. Car dealer hate EVs because they will destroy their service revenue stream, hence forecourt reps discourage EVs and rapidly steer gullible consumers away towards efficient petrol models or worse hybrids which are the ultimate con on the consumer and climate. ICE and Oil won't go without a fight, and they currently still have the money to fight. Having said that anybody remember 'nokia'? When was the last time you saw somebody using a Nokia cell phone. Legacy ICE manufacturers are terrified of becoming the next Nokia, and overnight. The only constant is change.

Hamsterchops · 22-04-2020 7:10pm

ScumLord wrote: »

The future of electric is limitless, which is sort of the problem at the same time. If there was one obvious way to do electric it would probably be easier to invest in infrastructure.

You say electric is limitless, but isn't there a world shortage of dilithium crystals or some such ingredient? something about their being only one mine in South Africa, where this precious stuff is mined.

16-05-2020 10:41am

I'm electric since 2015, never going back to ICE as the main source of traction.

Batteries are lasting longer, more range, faster charging etc. They have come a long way since Gen I Nissan Leaf.

My BMW i3 battery after 3 years 2 months and 85000 Kms is showing no noticeable signs of degradation which is a lot better than some.

The Volkswagen id.3 will be available in the Autumn, good car, up to 120 Kw which is well over twice what the Gen I leaf could achieve and which was around 35 Kw average at a fast charger.

Hyundai Kona, Esoul Eniro, all good cars with up to 450 Kms

I wouldn't bother with the "self charging" Toyotas, good cars but the engine is the main source of power, and they don't run on battery at up to 50% of the time because the ICE is the main source of traction, the battery is only 1 Kwh with 500 Watt hrs available compared to an EV with 20-100 Kwh of storage you can see the Toyota hybrid batteries are rubbish by today's standard and they are so far behind these days it's really shocking. Toyota are still using hybrid tech from 2004, they just made things a bit more efficient, more compact but the greatest changes came from aerodynamics and the ICE.

Anyway, driving a Rear Wheel Drive EV is a lot of fun and I could not go back to ICE with all that horrible lag and poor torque curve of especially diesels.

Even the current gen Leaf is a lot better to drive than so many ICE cars out there today.

The Electric Car

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