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BMW timing chain issues (2018 update)

2»

Comments

  • #52
    Leonard Hofstadter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter


    rabbitinlights wrote: »
    Interesting - What's the difference apart from the name? - I always thought it was just a different tune/compression to get from 204 to 218bhp?

    Not sure really, I'd imagine they changed some parts in the engine, they wouldn't just give it a slightly different code for no reason though.

    Usually they give them a new code to address a known fault with the original design, for example the N52N doesn't have the problem with the hydraulic tappets losing oil pressure and making a ticking noise when started up from cold that the N52 engine suffers from.

    A new code often doesn't result in a change to power and torque, it's usually addressing a design flaw (see above) or trying to reduce emissions (as is the case with the brand new B47D engine for the x20d models compared to the original B47 engine).


  • #53
    dub14
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭dub14


    Just spotted this thread.

    I've a 2012 5 series with 140k km. I need to get the flywheel replaced and I'm wondering should I go ahead and get the chain done now while the car is on the ramp anyway.

    I'm going to an indy that i trust and he's giving me prices for both options tomorrow (with or without the chain). I'll probably hold onto the car for another few years anyway. I'm guessing both jobs will be 2K or close to it

    Any thoughts


  • #54
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,644 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    dub14 wrote: »
    Just spotted this thread.

    I've a 2012 5 series with 140k km. I need to get the flywheel replaced and I'm wondering should I go ahead and get the chain done now while the car is on the ramp anyway.

    I'm going to an indy that i trust and he's giving me prices for both options tomorrow (with or without the chain). I'll probably hold onto the car for another few years anyway. I'm guessing both jobs will be 2K or close to it

    Any thoughts

    Is there any sounds such as rattling?

    I would go with his advice which may well be the safe bet and change.

    Look at it this way can you afford to lose the engine if it were to go.


  • #55
    rex-x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭rex-x


    dub14 wrote: »
    Just spotted this thread.

    I've a 2012 5 series with 140k km. I need to get the flywheel replaced and I'm wondering should I go ahead and get the chain done now while the car is on the ramp anyway.

    I'm going to an indy that i trust and he's giving me prices for both options tomorrow (with or without the chain). I'll probably hold onto the car for another few years anyway. I'm guessing both jobs will be 2K or close to it

    Any thoughts

    There would be small savings to be made. The engine has to come out to do the chain, it doesn't for gearbox/flywheel, although they do have to come off to do the chain. If its not making any noise at the moment I would just motor on, keep an eye and service regularly (15k km's max)

    Chain and flywheel/clutch together would be over 2k


  • #56
    KFed
    Registered Users Posts: 121 ✭✭KFed


    My timing chain started rattling at 90k km so had it replaced. Total cost was c. 2k at a reputable bmw independent. It's not just the chain that's replaced, there's a few more bits and pieces, but it's the labour that really drives the price.

    Im not sure if there's always a rattle prior to failure or if there's a risk of a catastrophic failure with no prior notice. If it's a 2012 5 series, it's still a valuable car. If the chain goes it may destroy the engine and wrote off the car, economically. If you pay out the 2k and replace it, it should be good for end of life really.

    So, you'd get a lot of piece of mind for the 2k if you're going to keep the car long term.

    That said, if you don't spend it, keep an ear out for a rattle, it may be good for life regardless.

    Is the root cause of the failures not that the pitch of the teeth were off thus wearing into the chain over time leading to failure? I thought that was the root cause and would explain why some cars go and others are fine?

    Would more frequent oil changes solve the underlying problem?


  • #57
    windyout
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭windyout


    Thanks for the quick responses. I think if the uplift isn't too bad I'll get it all done and then that's it done for good (i don't do high mileage). There is no rattle that i've heard. There is a vibration in neutral and low gears but thats the flywheel. As KFed says its still a valuable car and to be honest there is no real benefit in changing it apart from a newer reg. Still a lovely drive and all internals working perfectly (air con, heated seats etc). If I was to trade in for a newer version it would cost me a lot more than 2K for very little benefit (i'm in a positive mood tonight :-))


  • #58
    lomb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭lomb


    djan wrote: »
    What are peoples thoughts on the N20 x28i petrol engines? Would these be on par in terms of reliability as the post '11 models?

    I've an n20 28i in a z4. I've had the valvetronic motor and engine ecu fry. Likely as the engine runs hot. Ive removed the engine cover and insulation to keep it cool so it doesnt happen again.The turbo went around 35000 miles(white smoke from exhaust on startup a seal failure as it runs hot) They all have this and bmw recalled in the States for this.There is an issue is oil pump chain and main timing chain failure around 60000 miles on average due to plastic timing chain guides breaking and chain slap. There's a lawsuit in the States over this issue. On the bright side the chain is on the front of the engine unlike the diesels I think where the engine has to come out.
    Great engine though it has to be said. 245bhp with instant high torque. Good economy too.


  • #59
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    lomb wrote: »
    I've an n20 28i in a z4. I've had the valvetronic motor and engine ecu fry. Likely as the engine runs hot. Ive removed the engine cover and insulation to keep it cool so it doesnt happen again.The turbo went around 35000 miles(white smoke from exhaust on startup a seal failure as it runs hot) They all have this and bmw recalled in the States for this.There is an issue is oil pump chain and main timing chain failure around 60000 miles on average due to plastic timing chain guides breaking and chain slap. There's a lawsuit in the States over this issue. On the bright side the chain is on the front of the engine unlike the diesels I think where the engine has to come out.
    Great engine though it has to be said. 245bhp with instant high torque. Good economy too.

    Oouch. Sooo typical to BMW tough - progressive enginiering that bellies up soon enough.

    New Supra comes with BMW engines - but will not be offer with the stronger motors in some markets (exp. Australia) where Toyota historically offers longer bumper-to-bumper warranties. BMW simply refuses to stand by their engines for so long :D


  • #60
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    MetzgerMeister wrote: »
    .......

    3. Much more oil in the engine - so even with long intervals it stays a bit fresher. The N57 has a capacity of 9 litres. The N47 only takes 5.2, so you can do a lot more miles on the same oil, BMWs ridiculously long service intervals are much easier to justify when the engine takes so much more oil. Plus the superior refinement of a six cylinder engine means the chain has a much easier time.


    I don't think the larger oil capacity on the 6 cyl is too significant ..... there's 50% more engine there so 50% more oil would be 7.8l...... the 9l in the 3.0 is probably needed to mitigate the longer heat up times :)


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  • #61
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Augeo wrote: »
    I don't think the larger oil capacity on the 6 cyl is too significant ..... there's 50% more engine there so 50% more oil would be 7.8l...... the 9l in the 3.0 is probably needed to mitigate the longer heat up times :)

    There's 50% more combustion chamber size, that has nothing to do with oil capacity one way or another. ....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #62
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,752 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    This car allegedly has a brand new engine, so might be worth a second look....

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-1-series-118d-sport-automatic/20888851


  • #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    galwaytt wrote: »
    There's 50% more combustion chamber size, that has nothing to do with oil capacity one way or another. ....

    Well the larger cc generally is found with larger oil capacity. More cylinders, more valves, more parts .... more to be lubricated.... more oil needed.

    I also mentioned longer heat up times.....

    For whatever reason your getting very pedantic with your post. I wasn't specifically referring to combustion chamber size. But hey ho....work away.


  • #64
    lomb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭lomb


    grogi wrote: »
    Oouch. Sooo typical to BMW tough - progressive enginiering that bellies up soon enough.

    New Supra comes with BMW engines - but will not be offer with the stronger motors in some markets (exp. Australia) where Toyota historically offers longer bumper-to-bumper warranties. BMW simply refuses to stand by their engines for so long :D

    BMW have the highest repair costs according to some study I ready it is around three times the cost of a Toyota by year 5. BMW is cutting edge which is what attracts their customers though. An example is the variable displacement oil pump electronically controlled to reduce frictional losses perhaps saving 1 g co2The problem is if and when it goes it will probably take the engine with it unless you switch off the engine within a few seconds of getting the oil pressure warning. Even then the turbo is likely gone. There is no throttle body the throttling is done by valvetronic variable lift. Then there is vanos variable timing and of course turbo charging. There is no cylinder liner just a few micron deposition layer on the block that the pistons ride on which if it wears the engine is written off.Many engine parts are plastic and not built to last- yes even the sump and sump plug ,valve cover , timing chain guides etc. There's a vacuum pump as there is no throttle body and this can go wrong.
    They are a rich mans car buy new and trade in for another one in 3 years or else spend your time/money figuring out how to repair it cheaply /properly.


  • #65
    mikeecho
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    lomb wrote: »
    BMW have the highest repair costs according to some study I ready it is around three times the cost of a Toyota by year 5. BMW is cutting edge which is what attracts their customers though. An example is the variable displacement oil pump electronically controlled to reduce frictional losses perhaps saving 1 g co2The problem is if and when it goes it will probably take the engine with it unless you switch off the engine within a few seconds of getting the oil pressure warning. Even then the turbo is likely gone. There is no throttle body the throttling is done by valvetronic variable lift. Then there is vanos variable timing and of course turbo charging. There is no cylinder liner just a few micron deposition layer on the block that the pistons ride on which if it wears the engine is written off.Many engine parts are plastic and not built to last- yes even the sump and sump plug ,valve cover , timing chain guides etc. There's a vacuum pump as there is no throttle body and this can go wrong.
    They are a rich mans car buy new and trade in for another one in 3 years or else spend your time/money figuring out how to repair it cheaply /properly.

    Or, you can maintain it, and not by following the manufacturers intervals.. but shorter more realistic ones.

    But.. hey .. very few people will do that.


  • #66
    ml100
    Registered Users Posts: 404 ✭✭ml100


    mikeecho wrote: »
    Or, you can maintain it, and not by following the manufacturers intervals.. but shorter more realistic ones.

    But.. hey .. very few people will do that.

    Or buy electric when the range gets better in a few years!, I won't be going electric on environmental grounds it will be to get a more reliable car, all the emission restrictions on ICE cars are making them less reliable more expensive to run to high mileage


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  • #67
    lomb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,017 ✭✭✭lomb


    ml100 wrote: »
    Or buy electric when the range gets better in a few years!, I won't be going electric on environmental grounds it will be to get a more reliable car, all the emission restrictions on ICE cars are making them less reliable more expensive to run to high mileage

    Bingo, bmws old straight six normally aspirated engines could do 400000 miles with nothing other than oil ,sparkplugs and filters.

    I prefer the 2000-2005 cars , the Audi 1.8 5 valve turbo was possibly the last great normal ,high powered and reliable engine. Some have them putting out 500+bhp with different turbos. I dont think Il ever go electric buy newer post 2015 cars are safer especially offset frontal collisions. Better to ratchet up miles in a safer car Imo.


  • #68
    grogi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    lomb wrote: »
    Bingo, bmws old straight six normally aspirated engines could do 400000 miles with nothing other than oil ,sparkplugs and filters.

    Certainly... :D That must be a lot of oil then... Valvetronic, Vanos, coils, thermostats housing and chain never caused issues either.


  • #69
    Behind you Joey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭Behind you Joey


    Is it the case that a 2014 X1 2.0d could have the dreaded timing chain issue also? Pretty sure it's the N47 engine too.


  • #70
    Wailin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,432 ✭✭✭Wailin


    Technically, yes but far far rarer than at it's peak from 2008-2011. A well serviced N47 with yearly oil changes would not worry me at all. I've had two, an 09 520d E61 and a 2013 525d F11. No issues ever with either. I'd be very comfortable with a 2014 N47.


  • #71
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    lomb wrote: »
    ..............

    BMW is cutting edge which is what attracts their customers though.....


    Not really, butchered yer post for a few examples :




    lomb wrote: »
    ......
    An example is the variable displacement oil pump electronically controlled

    Is nothing

    lomb wrote: »
    ..

    There is no throttle body the throttling is done by valvetronic variable lift.

    Done years ago, no one bothered putting it into production cos emission not a problem


    lomb wrote: »
    ..
    Then there is vanos variable timing
    .

    vtec and many more

    lomb wrote: »
    ..

    . There is no cylinder liner just a few micron deposition layer on the block that the pistons ride on
    .

    On mopeds for decades

    lomb wrote: »
    .

    There's a vacuum pump as there is.....

    .


    As fitted to every diesel delivery van since late 1900's


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  • #72
    BrookieD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭BrookieD


    Wailin wrote: »
    Technically, yes but far far rarer than at it's peak from 2008-2011. A well serviced N47 with yearly oil changes would not worry me at all. I've had two, an 09 520d E61 and a 2013 525d F11. No issues ever with either. I'd be very comfortable with a 2014 N47.

    I own an F10 2012 and while i bought in July 2018 with a full service i have done 15,000 km and its back in Joe Duffy for EGR valve recall work on monday, while there i am asking them to change the oil, will cost me €128 with the 20% discount from BMW first option i took. I intend on doing the oil change every 15,000km... would any more experienced owners say this is best practise?


  • #73
    Wailin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,432 ✭✭✭Wailin


    No it's perfectly good practice with these cars, I do mine every 10-12,000 miles and that's the N57 3 litre engine. I had the oil done on my last two 5 series once a year or every 10,000 miles too.

    I know some lads doing it every 10k km which is a bit of overkill imo.15k km is fine.

    For that price too it's a no brainer really.

    It's all well and good a new owner changing the oil regularly, but if the previous owner only went with the BMW intervals, it may have shortened the life of the chain already, you just don't know.


  • #74
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Is there anyway to know if there's an issue, or know if the issue is appearing?


  • #75
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,189 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Is there anyway to know if there's an issue, or know if the issue is appearing?

    Can be hard to hear until it is really bad as the N47 is such a noisy unit at idle. But excessive rattling right at the bulkhead is what you are listing for.

    BMW have some way of checking, not sure what they charge for that pleasure though.


  • #76
    BrookieD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭BrookieD


    Have to say while its a little noisy at idle when on the move its smooth as silk and the pick up in SPORT is amazing. still even at idle it's so much more quiet than the Pug 508 i was running.

    Just check service book,

    Service 1 = 34k km
    Service 2 = 46k km
    service 3 = 62k km
    service 4 = 105k km longer than i would have liked to see
    Monday will be a change at 123k km

    i dont see anything to alarming though as it was a lightly used car and good owner (i hope!)


  • #77
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Stallingrad wrote: »
    Can be hard to hear until it is really bad as the N47 is such a noisy unit at idle. But excessive rattling right at the bulkhead is what you are listing for.

    BMW have some way of checking, not sure what they charge for that pleasure though.

    They’re charging €135 for the check in my local dealer. I’m getting it done with the EGR recall. I can’t hear anything so hopefully they won’t either. Just want to get it checked while it’s there for peace of mind.


  • #78
    Behind you Joey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭Behind you Joey


    darragh o meara wrote: »
    They’re charging €135 for the check in my local dealer. I’m getting it done with the EGR recall. I can’t hear anything so hopefully they won’t either. Just want to get it checked while it’s there for peace of mind.

    Hi there, I brought mine to Colm Quinn in Galway after my mechanic neighbour used his own kind of stethoscope to inspect the car and reckoned the noise was coming for the back of the engine and it was the chain.

    It cost €70 for the official "wand test" which I, of course, failed. Bill to do it with BMW is €2,800 for parts and labour. They photocopied my service history and purchase invoice to send to head office to see what kind of "goodwill" they could offer.

    Heard back from them yesterday, they're willing to cover the parts and a small percentage of the labour costs. It seems it will cost me €1,200 in total, it's a 3 day job with the official dealer might I add. My local indy will do it for €1,500 with what he says is a stronger, more robust chain. However, I think I'll go the official route.

    I should add my E92 is a 2008 reg with only 80,000 miles on it. I only purchased it last July and have done 12,000 already on it. It only has a part service history and I think but for that fact, they would have covered the whole job considering the condition of the car for its age and the low mileage.

    It might be worth booking a wand test and your local BMW dealer to get full closure on the matter and then, God forbid, you fail, see what kind of goodwill they're willing to give you. Just my two cents.

    The most frustrating thing about this is that it is a manufacturer's defect. Period. They should be covering the entire cost of the job whether the vehicle has 300,000 miles on the clock or a part service history or not.

    On a separate note, would anyone know whether the diesel X3 (either the sDrive 18d or xDrive 2.0d) from 2013/14 is the same engine? Thinking of trading in after.


  • #79
    bazz26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,289 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Yes it is the same engine. You would need to go to a mid 2015 or early 2016 X3 to get the newer engine.


  • #80
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,189 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Yes it is the same engine. You would need to go to a mid 2015 or early 2016 X3 to get the newer engine.


    Keep in mind the newer B47 is not immune to this issue either.


  • #81
    bazz26
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 51,289 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Still way less likely though.


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  • #82
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,189 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Still way less likely though.

    True, some modified parts, but the engine is essentially the same.

    Longevity is down to annual oil changes, not BMW's 2 year.


  • #83
    Behind you Joey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭Behind you Joey


    I'm only thinking now, if BMW replace the timing chain with their own, I am presuming they replace with the same, albeit newer chain, therefore fast-forward 100,000 miles, it could go again correct? Plot twist.


  • #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Goodwill on a 2008 reg you bought relatively recently is tremendous IMO.... especially given it doesn't have FSH.


  • #85
    intro
    Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭intro


    I posted on this thread :
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057951065
    about my experience with a 2008 320D estate with 160,000 miles. BMW (to my shock) covered the full cost of parts and labour to replace the timing chain in December 2018.

    I do wonder is the change of heart a result of them having to divulge details of timing chain problems in Ireland and the UK under discovery for the recent court case about them?


  • #86
    Ruairi.g
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Ruairi.g


    Are BMW still covering the cost of this as a goodwill gesture

    I ask as I am looking at a 520 automatic at the moment, but this timing chain issue is kind of unnerving me!

    If I knew that BMW would repair it, I would definitely be getting one of these cars!!


  • #87
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Ruairi.g wrote: »
    Are BMW still covering the cost of this as a goodwill gesture

    I ask as I am looking at a 520 automatic at the moment, but this timing chain issue is kind of unnerving me!

    If I knew that BMW would repair it, I would definitely be getting one of these cars!!

    Pretty much a case by case basis, Full Service history definitely helps. What year is it? The chain issue is less common in cars manufactured post 2012.


  • #88
    Ruairi.g
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Ruairi.g


    darragh o meara wrote: »
    Pretty much a case by case basis, Full Service history definitely helps. What year is it? The chain issue is less common in cars manufactured post 2012.

    285,000kms, not sure if service history, it’s a 09


  • #89
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,234 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Ruairi.g wrote: »
    285,000kms, not sure if service history, it’s a 09

    2 things, at that mileage I couldn’t see BMW giving full coverage as at 11 yrs old and nearly 200k miles would be pretty reasonable life for a timing chain.

    On the other hand, if it was going to go, it would very like have done so already. If it hasn’t, there’s a good chance it won’t. Timing chains didn’t go in all of them, only some. IMO servicing has a lot to do with it, BMW long life services are a joke, my 5 series tells me it can do over 15k miles between services which is a lot of torture on engine oil. I’ve don’t mine every 8k miles and it hasn’t missed a beat.

    If your really worried about it, you could do it proactively in an indie garage, costs about €1500 ish


  • #90
    Ruairi.g
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Ruairi.g


    darragh o meara wrote: »
    2 things, at that mileage I couldn’t see BMW giving full coverage as at 11 yrs old and nearly 200k miles would be pretty reasonable life for a timing chain.

    On the other hand, if it was going to go, it would very like have done so already. If it hasn’t, there’s a good chance it won’t. Timing chains didn’t go in all of them, only some. IMO servicing has a lot to do with it, BMW long life services are a joke, my 5 series tells me it can do over 15k miles between services which is a lot of torture on engine oil. I’ve don’t mine every 8k miles and it hasn’t missed a beat.

    If your really worried about it, you could do it proactively in an indie garage, costs about €1500 ish

    That’s what I was thinking as well, that if there was an issue with this one, it would already have gone! And I have read in other places that the 30,000km service interval is a joke! 15,000 km between oil changes is pushing it, and I’m no mechanic, but it seams like common sense to me!!
    €1,500 is still a lot of money to spend on an 11yo car!
    But I could nearly factor that into the purchase price!


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  • #91
    Jim79
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Jim79


    2012 BMW 5 series N47, timing chain snapped while driving. i have contacted BMW. they tell me that i can apply for a reduction in the repair cost or possibly BMW will cover the cost completely (unlikely). The catch is it costs €295 to make this application.

    also
    they tell me that the cost is 3k to repair a car with broken chain (they have not seen the car).

    also update on the legal situation FYI
    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/news/bmw-faces-up-to-70-court-actions-over-potentially-catastrophic-engine-fault-35334795.html

    Is anyone in this situation at the min?


  • #92
    newmember2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭newmember2


    Jim79 wrote: »
    2012 BMW 5 series N47, timing chain snapped while driving. i have contacted BMW. they tell me that i can apply for a reduction in the repair cost or possibly BMW will cover the cost completely (unlikely). The catch is it costs €295 to make this application.

    also
    they tell me that the cost is 3k to repair a car with broken chain (they have not seen the car).

    also update on the legal situation FYI
    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/news/bmw-faces-up-to-70-court-actions-over-potentially-catastrophic-engine-fault-35334795.html

    Is anyone in this situation at the min?

    Try a different dealer, I dealt with Frank Keane when I had N47 issues and his test/application for goodwill price was a lot cheaper than another well known Dublin dealer that had previously quoted me.


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