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BMW timing chain issues (2018 update)

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13

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    #62
    Henry Ford III
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Henry Ford III


    This car allegedly has a brand new engine, so might be worth a second look....

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-1-series-118d-sport-automatic/20888851


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    #63
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    galwaytt wrote: »
    There's 50% more combustion chamber size, that has nothing to do with oil capacity one way or another. ....

    Well the larger cc generally is found with larger oil capacity. More cylinders, more valves, more parts .... more to be lubricated.... more oil needed.

    I also mentioned longer heat up times.....

    For whatever reason your getting very pedantic with your post. I wasn't specifically referring to combustion chamber size. But hey ho....work away.


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    #64
    lomb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭lomb


    grogi wrote: »
    Oouch. Sooo typical to BMW tough - progressive enginiering that bellies up soon enough.

    New Supra comes with BMW engines - but will not be offer with the stronger motors in some markets (exp. Australia) where Toyota historically offers longer bumper-to-bumper warranties. BMW simply refuses to stand by their engines for so long :D

    BMW have the highest repair costs according to some study I ready it is around three times the cost of a Toyota by year 5. BMW is cutting edge which is what attracts their customers though. An example is the variable displacement oil pump electronically controlled to reduce frictional losses perhaps saving 1 g co2The problem is if and when it goes it will probably take the engine with it unless you switch off the engine within a few seconds of getting the oil pressure warning. Even then the turbo is likely gone. There is no throttle body the throttling is done by valvetronic variable lift. Then there is vanos variable timing and of course turbo charging. There is no cylinder liner just a few micron deposition layer on the block that the pistons ride on which if it wears the engine is written off.Many engine parts are plastic and not built to last- yes even the sump and sump plug ,valve cover , timing chain guides etc. There's a vacuum pump as there is no throttle body and this can go wrong.
    They are a rich mans car buy new and trade in for another one in 3 years or else spend your time/money figuring out how to repair it cheaply /properly.


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    #65
    mikeecho
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭mikeecho


    lomb wrote: »
    BMW have the highest repair costs according to some study I ready it is around three times the cost of a Toyota by year 5. BMW is cutting edge which is what attracts their customers though. An example is the variable displacement oil pump electronically controlled to reduce frictional losses perhaps saving 1 g co2The problem is if and when it goes it will probably take the engine with it unless you switch off the engine within a few seconds of getting the oil pressure warning. Even then the turbo is likely gone. There is no throttle body the throttling is done by valvetronic variable lift. Then there is vanos variable timing and of course turbo charging. There is no cylinder liner just a few micron deposition layer on the block that the pistons ride on which if it wears the engine is written off.Many engine parts are plastic and not built to last- yes even the sump and sump plug ,valve cover , timing chain guides etc. There's a vacuum pump as there is no throttle body and this can go wrong.
    They are a rich mans car buy new and trade in for another one in 3 years or else spend your time/money figuring out how to repair it cheaply /properly.

    Or, you can maintain it, and not by following the manufacturers intervals.. but shorter more realistic ones.

    But.. hey .. very few people will do that.


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    #66
    ml100
    Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭ml100


    mikeecho wrote: »
    Or, you can maintain it, and not by following the manufacturers intervals.. but shorter more realistic ones.

    But.. hey .. very few people will do that.

    Or buy electric when the range gets better in a few years!, I won't be going electric on environmental grounds it will be to get a more reliable car, all the emission restrictions on ICE cars are making them less reliable more expensive to run to high mileage


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    #67
    lomb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭lomb


    ml100 wrote: »
    Or buy electric when the range gets better in a few years!, I won't be going electric on environmental grounds it will be to get a more reliable car, all the emission restrictions on ICE cars are making them less reliable more expensive to run to high mileage

    Bingo, bmws old straight six normally aspirated engines could do 400000 miles with nothing other than oil ,sparkplugs and filters.

    I prefer the 2000-2005 cars , the Audi 1.8 5 valve turbo was possibly the last great normal ,high powered and reliable engine. Some have them putting out 500+bhp with different turbos. I dont think Il ever go electric buy newer post 2015 cars are safer especially offset frontal collisions. Better to ratchet up miles in a safer car Imo.


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    #68
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    lomb wrote: »
    Bingo, bmws old straight six normally aspirated engines could do 400000 miles with nothing other than oil ,sparkplugs and filters.

    Certainly... :D That must be a lot of oil then... Valvetronic, Vanos, coils, thermostats housing and chain never caused issues either.


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    #69
    Behind you Joey
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Behind you Joey


    Is it the case that a 2014 X1 2.0d could have the dreaded timing chain issue also? Pretty sure it's the N47 engine too.


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    #70
    Wailin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Wailin


    Technically, yes but far far rarer than at it's peak from 2008-2011. A well serviced N47 with yearly oil changes would not worry me at all. I've had two, an 09 520d E61 and a 2013 525d F11. No issues ever with either. I'd be very comfortable with a 2014 N47.


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    #71
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    lomb wrote: »
    ..............

    BMW is cutting edge which is what attracts their customers though.....


    Not really, butchered yer post for a few examples :




    lomb wrote: »
    ......
    An example is the variable displacement oil pump electronically controlled

    Is nothing

    lomb wrote: »
    ..

    There is no throttle body the throttling is done by valvetronic variable lift.

    Done years ago, no one bothered putting it into production cos emission not a problem


    lomb wrote: »
    ..
    Then there is vanos variable timing
    .

    vtec and many more

    lomb wrote: »
    ..

    . There is no cylinder liner just a few micron deposition layer on the block that the pistons ride on
    .

    On mopeds for decades

    lomb wrote: »
    .

    There's a vacuum pump as there is.....

    .


    As fitted to every diesel delivery van since late 1900's


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    #72
    BrookieD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭BrookieD


    Wailin wrote: »
    Technically, yes but far far rarer than at it's peak from 2008-2011. A well serviced N47 with yearly oil changes would not worry me at all. I've had two, an 09 520d E61 and a 2013 525d F11. No issues ever with either. I'd be very comfortable with a 2014 N47.

    I own an F10 2012 and while i bought in July 2018 with a full service i have done 15,000 km and its back in Joe Duffy for EGR valve recall work on monday, while there i am asking them to change the oil, will cost me €128 with the 20% discount from BMW first option i took. I intend on doing the oil change every 15,000km... would any more experienced owners say this is best practise?


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    #73
    Wailin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Wailin


    No it's perfectly good practice with these cars, I do mine every 10-12,000 miles and that's the N57 3 litre engine. I had the oil done on my last two 5 series once a year or every 10,000 miles too.

    I know some lads doing it every 10k km which is a bit of overkill imo.15k km is fine.

    For that price too it's a no brainer really.

    It's all well and good a new owner changing the oil regularly, but if the previous owner only went with the BMW intervals, it may have shortened the life of the chain already, you just don't know.


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    #74
    KERSPLAT!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭KERSPLAT!


    Is there anyway to know if there's an issue, or know if the issue is appearing?


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    #75
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,139 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    KERSPLAT! wrote: »
    Is there anyway to know if there's an issue, or know if the issue is appearing?

    Can be hard to hear until it is really bad as the N47 is such a noisy unit at idle. But excessive rattling right at the bulkhead is what you are listing for.

    BMW have some way of checking, not sure what they charge for that pleasure though.


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    #76
    BrookieD
    Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭BrookieD


    Have to say while its a little noisy at idle when on the move its smooth as silk and the pick up in SPORT is amazing. still even at idle it's so much more quiet than the Pug 508 i was running.

    Just check service book,

    Service 1 = 34k km
    Service 2 = 46k km
    service 3 = 62k km
    service 4 = 105k km longer than i would have liked to see
    Monday will be a change at 123k km

    i dont see anything to alarming though as it was a lightly used car and good owner (i hope!)


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    #77
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Stallingrad wrote: »
    Can be hard to hear until it is really bad as the N47 is such a noisy unit at idle. But excessive rattling right at the bulkhead is what you are listing for.

    BMW have some way of checking, not sure what they charge for that pleasure though.

    They’re charging €135 for the check in my local dealer. I’m getting it done with the EGR recall. I can’t hear anything so hopefully they won’t either. Just want to get it checked while it’s there for peace of mind.


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    #78
    Behind you Joey
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Behind you Joey


    darragh o meara wrote: »
    They’re charging €135 for the check in my local dealer. I’m getting it done with the EGR recall. I can’t hear anything so hopefully they won’t either. Just want to get it checked while it’s there for peace of mind.

    Hi there, I brought mine to Colm Quinn in Galway after my mechanic neighbour used his own kind of stethoscope to inspect the car and reckoned the noise was coming for the back of the engine and it was the chain.

    It cost €70 for the official "wand test" which I, of course, failed. Bill to do it with BMW is €2,800 for parts and labour. They photocopied my service history and purchase invoice to send to head office to see what kind of "goodwill" they could offer.

    Heard back from them yesterday, they're willing to cover the parts and a small percentage of the labour costs. It seems it will cost me €1,200 in total, it's a 3 day job with the official dealer might I add. My local indy will do it for €1,500 with what he says is a stronger, more robust chain. However, I think I'll go the official route.

    I should add my E92 is a 2008 reg with only 80,000 miles on it. I only purchased it last July and have done 12,000 already on it. It only has a part service history and I think but for that fact, they would have covered the whole job considering the condition of the car for its age and the low mileage.

    It might be worth booking a wand test and your local BMW dealer to get full closure on the matter and then, God forbid, you fail, see what kind of goodwill they're willing to give you. Just my two cents.

    The most frustrating thing about this is that it is a manufacturer's defect. Period. They should be covering the entire cost of the job whether the vehicle has 300,000 miles on the clock or a part service history or not.

    On a separate note, would anyone know whether the diesel X3 (either the sDrive 18d or xDrive 2.0d) from 2013/14 is the same engine? Thinking of trading in after.


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    #79
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,153 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Yes it is the same engine. You would need to go to a mid 2015 or early 2016 X3 to get the newer engine.


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    #80
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,139 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Yes it is the same engine. You would need to go to a mid 2015 or early 2016 X3 to get the newer engine.


    Keep in mind the newer B47 is not immune to this issue either.


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    #81
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,153 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Still way less likely though.


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    #82
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,139 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    bazz26 wrote: »
    Still way less likely though.

    True, some modified parts, but the engine is essentially the same.

    Longevity is down to annual oil changes, not BMW's 2 year.


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    #83
    Behind you Joey
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Behind you Joey


    I'm only thinking now, if BMW replace the timing chain with their own, I am presuming they replace with the same, albeit newer chain, therefore fast-forward 100,000 miles, it could go again correct? Plot twist.


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    #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Goodwill on a 2008 reg you bought relatively recently is tremendous IMO.... especially given it doesn't have FSH.


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    #85
    intro
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭intro


    I posted on this thread :
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057951065
    about my experience with a 2008 320D estate with 160,000 miles. BMW (to my shock) covered the full cost of parts and labour to replace the timing chain in December 2018.

    I do wonder is the change of heart a result of them having to divulge details of timing chain problems in Ireland and the UK under discovery for the recent court case about them?


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    #86
    Ruairi.g
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Ruairi.g


    Are BMW still covering the cost of this as a goodwill gesture

    I ask as I am looking at a 520 automatic at the moment, but this timing chain issue is kind of unnerving me!

    If I knew that BMW would repair it, I would definitely be getting one of these cars!!


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    #87
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Ruairi.g wrote: »
    Are BMW still covering the cost of this as a goodwill gesture

    I ask as I am looking at a 520 automatic at the moment, but this timing chain issue is kind of unnerving me!

    If I knew that BMW would repair it, I would definitely be getting one of these cars!!

    Pretty much a case by case basis, Full Service history definitely helps. What year is it? The chain issue is less common in cars manufactured post 2012.


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    #88
    Ruairi.g
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Ruairi.g


    darragh o meara wrote: »
    Pretty much a case by case basis, Full Service history definitely helps. What year is it? The chain issue is less common in cars manufactured post 2012.

    285,000kms, not sure if service history, it’s a 09


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    #89
    darragh o meara
    Registered Users Posts: 3,221 ✭✭✭darragh o meara


    Ruairi.g wrote: »
    285,000kms, not sure if service history, it’s a 09

    2 things, at that mileage I couldn’t see BMW giving full coverage as at 11 yrs old and nearly 200k miles would be pretty reasonable life for a timing chain.

    On the other hand, if it was going to go, it would very like have done so already. If it hasn’t, there’s a good chance it won’t. Timing chains didn’t go in all of them, only some. IMO servicing has a lot to do with it, BMW long life services are a joke, my 5 series tells me it can do over 15k miles between services which is a lot of torture on engine oil. I’ve don’t mine every 8k miles and it hasn’t missed a beat.

    If your really worried about it, you could do it proactively in an indie garage, costs about €1500 ish


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    #90
    Ruairi.g
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Ruairi.g


    darragh o meara wrote: »
    2 things, at that mileage I couldn’t see BMW giving full coverage as at 11 yrs old and nearly 200k miles would be pretty reasonable life for a timing chain.

    On the other hand, if it was going to go, it would very like have done so already. If it hasn’t, there’s a good chance it won’t. Timing chains didn’t go in all of them, only some. IMO servicing has a lot to do with it, BMW long life services are a joke, my 5 series tells me it can do over 15k miles between services which is a lot of torture on engine oil. I’ve don’t mine every 8k miles and it hasn’t missed a beat.

    If your really worried about it, you could do it proactively in an indie garage, costs about €1500 ish

    That’s what I was thinking as well, that if there was an issue with this one, it would already have gone! And I have read in other places that the 30,000km service interval is a joke! 15,000 km between oil changes is pushing it, and I’m no mechanic, but it seams like common sense to me!!
    €1,500 is still a lot of money to spend on an 11yo car!
    But I could nearly factor that into the purchase price!


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    #91
    Jim79
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭Jim79


    2012 BMW 5 series N47, timing chain snapped while driving. i have contacted BMW. they tell me that i can apply for a reduction in the repair cost or possibly BMW will cover the cost completely (unlikely). The catch is it costs €295 to make this application.

    also
    they tell me that the cost is 3k to repair a car with broken chain (they have not seen the car).

    also update on the legal situation FYI
    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/herald/news/bmw-faces-up-to-70-court-actions-over-potentially-catastrophic-engine-fault-35334795.html

    Is anyone in this situation at the min?


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