Madeleine McCann

retro:electro · 28-12-2018 2:45am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

On advice of Mark Harrison, the PJ asked a dog handler, Martin Grime, to bring his dogs to Praia da Luz.
Eddie is trained to search for and locate human remains and body fluids including blood. The dog has also been trained to identify 'dead body' scent contamination. Keela is indeed trained to detect blood. Both dogs will alert to dried blood of live human beings.
In six years operational deployment in over 200 cases the dog has never alerted to meat based foodstuffs. The dog has never alerted to 'road kill'. Yet in training the dog has alerted to a 1 cm cube of pork soaked in petrol for 1 week and then burnt until only a residue remains. That's according to the handler, Mr Grime. He hasn't provided any records of the dog's successes and failures to substantiate his claims. He worked at South Yorkshire Police Force from 2003 to August 2007. During that period he was deployed on 37 occasions. That's an average of 9 per year. Eddie was seven in 2007..........
He alerted to two different places in the McCanns’ apartment, the garden, two of Kate McCann’s clothes, one of the children’s T-shirts, on the pink soft toy, ‘Cuddle Cat’. He was not deployed in the car, so he didn't alert to two places in the car. He did however alert to the driver's door, in one compartment of which was the car's key card. Eddie alerted to the key card.
None of the alerts by Keela have been confirmed by forensics as being blood. No blood or DNA of Madeleine was found/identified. The DNA that was identified belongs to three living persons.
Portuguese forensics examined the apartment the day after Madeleine disappeared. No vestige of blood was found.

Montgolfier · 26-01-2019 9:03pm

Something Else

Just watched the 3 part series of statement analysis by Pete Hyatt on YouTube very reveling.
Who are they connected to in Scotland yard that got this covered up so well.

Mantis Toboggan · 14-03-2019 10:15am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/mar/13/netflix-to-stream-madeleine-mccann-series-after-delays-and-disputes

New Netflix documentary!

Boom_Bap · 14-03-2019 11:08am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBnarCTOiCY

Here's the trailer. Should be an interesting watch.

cnocbui · 14-03-2019 11:14am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Not really. The only thing that might be interesting would be new and substantial evidence sufficient to solve the mystery and that isn't going to happen via another documentary.

Boom_Bap · 14-03-2019 11:26am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I'm not expecting the case to be solved by it

But it's always interesting to see a different perspective on a case.....and one hopefully with decent production value.

cnocbui · 14-03-2019 12:19pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Maybe I was bit harsh.

I'll summarise it for you:

Blah, blah, blah .. Madeline goes missing .. blah, blah, blah Amaral is an incompetent and possibly corrupt fish out of water, well out of his depth .. blah, blah, blah .. No one knows what happened to Madeline but the only theory that holds water at the end of the day is that someone went into the apartment and abducted her.

Hope I didn't spoil it for you.

Boom_Bap · 14-03-2019 12:22pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

It's like someone spoiling the Titanic movie by telling you it sinks :pac:

From the trailer, it looks like they are going for the abduction/corruption slant anyhow. As long as there are not 6 episodes on cadaver dogs I'll be happy.

splinter65 · 14-03-2019 12:40pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

cnocbui wrote: »

Maybe I was bit harsh.

I'll summarise it for you:

Blah, blah, blah .. Madeline goes missing .. blah, blah, blah Amaral is an incompetent and possibly corrupt fish out of water, well out of his depth .. blah, blah, blah .. No one knows what happened to Madeline but the only theory that holds water at the end of the day is that someone went into the apartment and abducted her.

Hope I didn't spoil it for you.

But but but the shutters but but but the cadaver dogs but but but connections in high places

SusieBlue · 14-03-2019 12:54pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Think I'm going to have to come offline for a few days, I've been following a thread about the documentary in a FB group I'm in and some of the "theories" thrown around would make your head wobble.

Two particularly colourful suggestions were that Kate & Gerry sold Madeleine to be used as human bait in dog fights, or that the parents used donated eggs to conceive her with the IVF and that Madeleines "real parents" tracked her down and snatched her back.
And apparently Kate & Gerry know this but can't tell the police as they'd have to admit to using donated sperm and eggs.

Another was that the Tapas 9 were satan worshippers and offered up Madeleine as sacrifice to the devil. The proof of this is that one of the Tapas 9 apparently did an astrology course and has a keen interest in horoscopes.

Its going to be a long few days.

cnocbui · 14-03-2019 1:17pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

A good argument for 'what happens on Facebook, should stay on Facebook'.

Boom_Bap · 14-03-2019 1:41pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

If anyone of that conspiracy theory nonsense hits this thread I will dropkicking the culprits into orbit

14-03-2019 1:42pm

Something Else

I’m interested in seeing this documentary.
Just hope it doesn’t solely focus on abduction and act like nothing else could possibly have happened.

Lady Spangles · 14-03-2019 2:01pm

Despite this being such a huge case, I haven't really followed it. I remember it happening, and the search that extended pretty much across the whole of mainland Europe. But by no means have I been digging into the case. So I'm looking forward to the doc-series, tomorrow.

What I'd like is a comprehensive analysis of all theories. The parents seem to be the main suspects for most people, with all sorts of crazy conspiracies around them. But a professionally made doc has to do a lot better than that and look into all possibilities, without cherrypicking the evidence to suit themsleves.

maximoose · 14-03-2019 2:04pm

Judging by the trailer it doesn't seem they'll shy away from any suspicion on the McCanns

Looking forward to it

Steve F · 14-03-2019 3:51pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Think I'm going to have to come offline for a few days, I've been following a thread about the documentary in a FB group I'm in and some of the "theories" thrown around would make your head wobble.

Two particularly colourful suggestions were that Kate & Gerry sold Madeleine to be used as human bait in dog fights, or that the parents used donated eggs to conceive her with the IVF and that Madeleines "real parents" tracked her down and snatched her back.
And apparently Kate & Gerry know this but can't tell the police as they'd have to admit to using donated sperm and eggs.

Another was that the Tapas 9 were satan worshippers and offered up Madeleine as sacrifice to the devil. The proof of this is that one of the Tapas 9 apparently did an astrology course and has a keen interest in horoscopes.

Its going to be a long few days.

Deluded
As you know Susie I have my own thoughts on the matter but not as outlandish as those

Steve F · 14-03-2019 4:14pm

I see it's a series???
How many episodes?

splinter65 · 14-03-2019 6:33pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

The most outrageous theory I ever heard was that a dog was killed, gutted, and Madeleines body was stitched up inside it and the dog was then transported to a volcano and through it in. This, as I remember, explained how the McCanns managed to move the body under the gaze of the worlds press.
.... because none of the press would have noticed Gerry putting a dead dog stuffed with a 4 year old into the boot, obviously.
2 of the great questions of our time. What date exactly of a pregnancy does and unborn baby become a person, and how did the McCanns dispose of Madeleine.
Answers on a postcard and so on and so forth ....

jimwallace197 · 14-03-2019 6:40pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

I wouldn't have the most confidence in this documentary apart it from throwing around some outlandish theories and unfounded accusations.

Reading today in the papers that the makers believe she is still alive, well, ridiculous.

The saddest thing is the commercial profit the likes of Netflix will make off a story as sad as this.

Steve F · 15-03-2019 10:26am

splinter65 wrote: »

The most outrageous theory I ever heard was that a dog was killed, gutted, and Madeleines body was stitched up inside it and the dog was then transported to a volcano and through it in. This, as I remember, explained how the McCanns managed to move the body under the gaze of the worlds press.
.... because none of the press would have noticed Gerry putting a dead dog stuffed with a 4 year old into the boot, obviously.
2 of the great questions of our time. What date exactly of a pregnancy does and unborn baby become a person, and how did the McCanns dispose of Madeleine.
Answers on a postcard and so on and so forth ....

Madness

Mantis Toboggan · 15-03-2019 10:54am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Available now.

Wouldn't be aware of too much detail in this case so looking forward to it.
8 episodes.
Going to start a binge on it tonight with a few glasses of red.

splinter65 · 15-03-2019 11:11am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Available now.

Wouldn't be aware of too much detail in this case so looking forward to it.
8 episodes.
Going to start a binge on it tonight with a few glasses of red.

I’m not a virtue signaler in fact I can’t stand that nonsense. But when your enjoying the drama and the speculation it would be good if you’d bear in mind that she was a real child and her parents and siblings and close family are real and have suffered unimaginably.

pc7 · 15-03-2019 11:15am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

splinter65 wrote: »

siblings and close family are real and have suffered unimaginably.

I often wonder what the twins think, they are an age where they are likely able to get online or be talking with friends about it. There lives have been so affected by the 'ghost' of Maddie, can't imagine it. Poor dotes

Steve F · 15-03-2019 1:26pm

Is this likely to air on "mainstream" channels at a later date anyone know?

Steve F · 15-03-2019 1:28pm

pc7 wrote: »

I often wonder what the twins think, they are an age where they are likely able to get online or be talking with friends about it. There lives have been so affected by the 'ghost' of Maddie, can't imagine it. Poor dotes

Agree 100% .For all the speculation,media coverage,books etc lets not forget those two poor mites

Boom_Bap · 15-03-2019 1:33pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

10 minutes in and it's giving background on the holiday, a few bits of footage from them leaving to go on holiday, the layout of the resort and the lead up to that evening.

Lady Spangles · 15-03-2019 1:47pm

pc7 wrote: »

I often wonder what the twins think, they are an age where they are likely able to get online or be talking with friends about it. There lives have been so affected by the 'ghost' of Maddie, can't imagine it. Poor dotes

It must be all the worse knowing you there, in the room when it happened, but with absolutely no memory of it at all and no chance to recover those memories. Even if they did wake up, and I'm under the impression they were asleep still when Kate checked on them. It's just awful. The poor children. Despite the enormity of what happened, I hope they're able to lead perfectly ordinary lives.

splinter65 · 15-03-2019 3:03pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Lady Spangles wrote: »

It must be all the worse knowing you there, in the room when it happened, but with absolutely no memory of it at all and no chance to recover those memories. Even if they did wake up, and I'm under the impression they were asleep still when Kate checked on them. It's just awful. The poor children. Despite the enormity of what happened, I hope they're able to lead perfectly ordinary lives.

I’d imagine that they’ll have had to have had professional counseling at this stage to help them prepare for the tsunami of crap they’re going to find online if they haven’t already found it.
I’m not sure reassuring chats with mum and dad would be enough.
Imagine being a young teenager and reading all that lurid disgusting sensational speculation about your parents regarding this disappearance of your sister, the search for her, the trolling... I remember seeing photoshopped pics of G McCann and Madeleine depicting him sexually abusing her. When the photoshopper was challenged he/she protested that the pics were “satirical”! They were removed eventually but there were others.

Boom_Bap · 15-03-2019 3:56pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Boom_Bap wrote: »

10 minutes in and it's giving background on the holiday, a few bits of footage from them leaving to go on holiday, the layout of the resort and the lead up to that evening.

The first episode is about the resort, the McCanns and the timeline of the disappearance. Not really giving anything away but I'll spoiler for those who don't want to know anything

There are also some reporters who covered the case from the beginning interviewed and they retrace some steps they took.
Also some background on the different police forces and how they operate.

Not a bad watch so far.

iamwhoiam · 15-03-2019 4:21pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

It can't be easy for young teens to live with the whole sad saga . They must also struggle with knowing their parents left all three young children in a vulnerable position . It won't be easy for them not to question the decisions made by adults .
Although I would presume it will be explained as being something everyone did back then . Which in actual fact most parents wouldn't even think about leaving toddlers alone in an unlocked apartment .

jimwallace197 · 15-03-2019 6:42pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

On episode 2. Absolute disgrace the way those two journalists tried to implicate Murat in the disappearance and then tried to take credit and justify their actions when he was arrested.

Absolute hacks the pair of them

Lady Spangles · 15-03-2019 8:05pm

The documentary series is a pretty good watch, so far. I feel like I know a bit more. Unfortunate prevelance of Kelvin McKenzie who, of course, has never told a lie in his life.

Mantis Toboggan · 15-03-2019 8:24pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Surprised the parents refused to get involved. I'd be thinking if they've nothing to hide they'd be doing everything possible to try solve the case.

jimwallace197 · 15-03-2019 8:28pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Surprised the parents refused to get involved. I'd be thinking if they've nothing to hide they'd be doing everything possible to try solve the case.

When the narrative of the documentary is one that frequently tries to implicate them, why would they? Why would anyone?

Alrigghtythen · 15-03-2019 9:20pm

Episode 1

I never heard of murat being followed before.

Interesting watch so far

limnam · 15-03-2019 9:27pm

jimwallace197 wrote: »

When the narrative of the documentary is one that frequently tries to implicate them, why would they? Why would anyone?

Sounds like even more reason to be involved.

If you were innocent.

Alrigghtythen · 15-03-2019 9:28pm

limnam wrote: »

Sounds like even more reason to be involved.

If you were innocent.

The could even have brought some of their friends along...

shamrock55 · 16-03-2019 12:27am

Something Else

Jesus that netflix doc is boring as hell, just watched 1st episode and I think I'll leave it at that, its awfull

Bigmac1euro · 16-03-2019 3:56am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

The fu**king sniffer dogs.
I’m 5 in and it’s very interesting.

jimwallace197 · 16-03-2019 8:21am

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Just finished it last night & can’t say I was overly impressed with it. Goes over a lot of the same ground already so I guess for anyone who hasn’t followed the case, it will be interesting.

Some things that stand out though,
- the disgraceful reporting from the media & accusations they threw around. Especially those journos who tried to implicate Murat, should be sacked at least
- the harassment that Brian Kennedy’s son & the so called PI inflicted upon Murat & the website designer. They should be prosecuted for this imo
- the Restaurant staff writing that the tapas 7 would be in the restaurant all week on the actual front of the book or sheet for everyone to see
- the individual who became fixated on a girl of a very similar look & age to Madeleine in the weeks before the abduction who then tried to take her quite brazenly
- the other 9 similar sexual assaults/attempted kidnapping of kids in the vicinity of prai de luiz in the weeks before Madeleines disappearance, a lot of them quite brazen
- the sighting from the daughter of the lady who resides in the above apartment to McCanns of a man moving stealthily around the entrance of the McCanns apartment the day before Madeleine was abducted

Plumbthedepths · 16-03-2019 12:21pm

It amazes me the McCanns were not prosecuted for the crime of abandonment under Portuguese law. Leaving 3 children very young children alone was crazy.

dark crystal · 16-03-2019 1:05pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It amazes me the McCanns were not prosecuted for the crime of abandonment under Portuguese law. Leaving 3 children very young children alone was crazy.

What would that have achieved and how would it have helped in the search for Madeleine?

Plumbthedepths · 16-03-2019 1:11pm

dark crystal wrote:

What would that have achieved and how would it have helped in the search for Madeleine?

The McCanns broke the law, just amazed they were not prosecuted for their irresponsible behaviour.

splinter65 · 16-03-2019 1:28pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The McCanns broke the law, just amazed they were not prosecuted for their irresponsible behaviour.

But who was going to benefit from them being charged put on trial found guilty and punished? What purpose would that serve? Children go missing all the time and are found safe and sound later. Should all those parents be charged with neglect or only the McCanns? Should all the Tapas 7 be charged with neglect or only the McCanns? Surely if they were charged with neglect then all their children should have been taken into care. Do you think that would be a good idea? Do you think that all the children are still in danger from their neglectful parents today?

Plumbthedepths · 16-03-2019 1:30pm

splinter65 wrote:

But who was going to benefit from them being charged put on trial found guilty and punished? What purpose would thstvserve? Children go missing all the time and are found safe and sound later. Should all those parents be charged with neglect or only the McCanns? Should all the Tapas 7 be charged with neglect or only the McCanns? Surely if they were charged with neglect then all their children should have been taken into care. Do you think that would be a good idea?

So you don't believe a crime should be punished?
As for the last part of your post, considering their irresponsible behaviour which resulted in the disappearance of their child the younger children should have been taken into care.

splinter65 · 16-03-2019 1:31pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The McCanns broke the law, just amazed they were not prosecuted for their irresponsible behaviour.

What law did they break? I assume your familiar with the Portuguese justice system.

cnocbui · 16-03-2019 1:31pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The McCanns broke the law, just amazed they were not prosecuted for their irresponsible behaviour.

I have seen legal opinions that they didn't break the law in Portugal with regards to what constitutes child neglect and the same with regards the UK - which is irrelevant as they weren't in the UK.

Plumbthedepths · 16-03-2019 1:34pm

splinter65 wrote:

What law did they break? .

Abandonment.

splinter65 · 16-03-2019 1:34pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So you don't believe a crime should be punished?
As for the last part of your post, considering their irresponsible behaviour which resulted in the disappearance of their child the younger children should have been taken into care.

What crime did they commit? If you believe a crime was committed then you surely know the name of the law that was broken.
Is it not amazing to you that considering the tapas children were in so much danger from there parents, that no misfortune has befallen any of them ever since?

splinter65 · 16-03-2019 1:35pm

She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Abandonment.

Under which statute in Portuguese law is abondonment a crime, and what is the criteria to meet such a charge?

Madeleine McCann

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