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Taxis overcharging on meters via remote fobs

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124

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    #92
    vandriver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭vandriver


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    First off 8 miles is 8 miles whether it is in Dublin or Naas.

    Where exactly are you getting the 20euro "minimum"?
    €2 puc,€3.80 for the first 0.5 km,12.2 km @€;1.14 is €13.90 makes €19.70 (rounded to €20 for purposes of simplicity) at a minimum on tariff 1 if all the distance is achieved at over 21.2 kmh.
    8 rural miles is clearly going to be cheaper than 8 city miles because of the meter going over to time based charging at lights and slow traffic in the city.
    One of us actually knows what he's talking about.


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    #93
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    L1011 wrote: »
    Thermal paper doesn't need a ribbon, it's just paper and print head. I presume that's what's in use in most if not all receipt printers in taxis as I haven't got a plain paper and ink receipt in years

    Aren't taxis meant to be off the road if unable to provide receipts anyway?

    Ribbons are whats in most.
    No, taxis are not meant to be off the road if they are unable to provide receipts


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    #94
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Regardless of the majority of drivers there are bad apples, I don't know the constraints on the current regulators but the seemingly inaction from the regulators to strip license from those who are blackening the name of the honest drivers damages you all.

    The answer to sorting out the quality of drivers is not going back to a highly regulated market with high barriers to entry.

    I remember those times and there was allot of ****e that went on.

    Its not up to the regulators to strip anyone of their licence.

    A higher regulated market IS whats needed


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    #95
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    No, taxis are not meant to be off the road if they are unable to provide receipts
    Sounds like an oversight that needs correction then.


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    #96
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,331 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    Its not up to the regulators to strip anyone of their licence.
    i am probably misreading you here - surely 'regulating' would imply this very activity when needed?


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    #97
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    Its not up to the regulators to strip anyone of their licence.

    A higher regulated market IS whats needed

    I don't think so, the bad old days it was a closed shop and greed was plenty for those on the inside but screw the consumer. Kinda like the driver's we are talking about in this thread, all about the money.

    If not the regulators then whomever the licensing authority is, they have a job to maintain the integrity of the industry.

    With tech like we have with the likes of Uber I don't know why we don't have a fairly transparent pricing system .


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    #98
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i am probably misreading you here - surely 'regulating' would imply this very activity when needed?

    You cant be taken off the road for not providing a receipt. Its nonsensical in the extreme. However you can be fined if caught


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    #99
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Calhoun wrote: »
    I don't think so, the bad old days it was a closed shop and greed was plenty for those on the inside but screw the consumer. Kinda like the driver's we are talking about in this thread, all about the money.

    If not the regulators then whomever the licensing authority is, they have a job to maintain the integrity of the industry.

    With tech like we have with the likes of Uber I don't know why we don't have a fairly transparent pricing system .

    To be fair, it is fairly transparent, there is a metered rate set by the NAT, it might take a bit of background reading to understand the complexities of speed switchover but at the end of it the meter is supposed to work that out. However, as soon as you go Uber
    , Lyft etc. Then you are left to the vagueness of their individual policies and their "customer service"

    https://www.thejournal.ie/uber-ireland-overcharging-4888164-Nov2019/


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    #100
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    You cant be taken off the road for not providing a receipt. Its nonsensical in the extreme. However you can be fined if caught

    So if you can be fined for doing it, you cannot drive without it working and hence shouldn't be on the road.

    Why did you lie?


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    #101
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    You cant be taken off the road for not providing a receipt. Its nonsensical in the extreme. However you can be fined if caught

    However, I think if you can't print receipts then you shouldn't be working after finding out your printer is fvcked, after all it's usually just a case of being a pox and not having a new receipt roll or ribbon to hand.

    Indeed if customers were savvy enough to report taxis for such things and the NAT had reports from different customers throughout the night they would have the evidence to take action.


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    #102
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    L1011 wrote: »
    So if you can be fined for doing it, you cannot drive without it working and hence shouldn't be on the road.

    Why did you lie?

    Technical but true, however, there are meters around that won't clear down if it can't print a receipt, like mine. It would be far easier to stipulate this function as being a requirement for all taxis when replaced or reproggramed than trying to enforce something that can only be enforced by the fluke of being stopped by an inspector or of a customer complaint


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    #103
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    Calhoun wrote: »
    I don't think so, the bad old days it was a closed shop and greed was plenty for those on the inside but screw the consumer. Kinda like the driver's we are talking about in this thread, all about the money.

    If not the regulators then whomever the licensing authority is, they have a job to maintain the integrity of the industry.

    With tech like we have with the likes of Uber I don't know why we don't have a fairly transparent pricing system .

    "Greed was plenty"? What do you mean by that comment.You then go on to say ,"kinda like the drivers we are talking about in this thread", Your implying that every single driver was acting illegal pre deregulation. Which is simply not true.

    Yes the regulators have a job to maintain the integrity of the industry,however there are less than 20 for the whole country. Theyre are far too many taxis for the population, so its virtually impossible to get to grips with whats going on.

    We, DO have a transparent pricing system, tell me how it is not.

    Uber is not here by the way , they cannot work they were they do in other countries , and rightly so.


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    #104
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    L1011 wrote: »
    So if you can be fined for doing it, you cannot drive without it working and hence shouldn't be on the road.

    Why did you lie?

    First off, RE read what I said, i said you can be and are fined. Your incorrect assumption that this automatically means being taken off the road is as i say incorrect. Which only goes to show that the vast majority of the public are quite ignorant when it comes to the taxi business.

    and I didnt lie and do not lie.


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    #105
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    "Greed was plenty"? What do you mean by that comment.You then go on to say ,"kinda like the drivers we are talking about in this thread", Your implying that every single driver was acting illegal pre deregulation. Which is simply not true.

    Yes the regulators have a job to maintain the integrity of the industry,howeve mer there are less than 20 for the whole country. Theyre are far too many taxis for the population, so its virtually impossible to get to grips with whats going on.

    We, DO have a transparent pricing system, tell me how it is not.

    Uber is not here by the way , they cannot work they were they do in other countries , and rightly so.

    What I am implying is that having a closed market only benefits the supplier as the barrier to entry are so high. So when someone advocates for high regulation I can only imagine they are thinking of the benefit to their wallets like the chaps who are overcharging customers.

    Maybe the government needs to invest in the regulator to keep an eye on what's going on then, if not that then at least open up the market to Uber or Lyft. If we aren't going to try and maintain the integrity of the industry we might as well go with these other methods of doing it.

    My assumption on the pricing came down to a driver being able to over charge on 280 rides.

    I am not so sure about not letting Uber have access to the market. As said above if we cannot keep integrity of what we currently have and allow for an relatively minor barrier to entry for what is not super skilled labor we are doing something really wrong.


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    #106
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Calhoun wrote: »
    What I am implying is that having a closed market only benefits the supplier as the barrier to entry are so high. So when someone advocates for high regulation I can only imagine they are thinking of the benefit to their wallets like the chaps who are overcharging customers.

    Maybe the government needs to invest in the regulator to keep an eye on what's going on then, if not that then at least open up the market to Uber or Lyft. If we aren't going to try and maintain the integrity of the industry we might as well go with these other methods of doing it.

    My assumption on the pricing came down to a driver being able to over charge on 280 rides.

    I am not so sure about not letting Uber have access to the market. As said above if we cannot keep integrity of what we currently have and allow for an relatively minor barrier to entry for what is not super skilled labor we are doing something really wrong.


    There are already no major obstacles to prevent people working in the taxi industry, or have you not noticed the increase in small wheel chair taxis on the streets?

    But of course we need Uber and their self regulation!


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    #107
    vandriver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭vandriver


    The vast majority of my account customers(as a taxi driver) don't either look at the meter or wait for a receipt.
    They get a email receipt through FreeNow,and that seems to do them.
    If I was unscrupulous,(I'm 100% honest!) I could quite easily see how adding up to 9 euro extras would go undetected for a long time.
    You have an absolute right to a printed receipt showing the date,km travelled,time,driver number,fare and any extras charged.
    If more users asked for the receipt,then the sooner these charlatans that blacken the trade would be found out.


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    #108
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    There are already no major obstacles to prevent people working in the taxi industry, or have you not noticed the increase in small wheel chair taxis on the streets?

    But of course we need Uber and their self regulation!

    My point is more of a counter balance to what the other poster is saying or I think they are saying. I think they are implying that we have it wrong right now and the barriers to entry have created a scenario where the industry is unsafe. The only way to make it safe is by closing the market like before.

    If that's the case and we are saying right now the concerns raised in the thread cannot be addressed then we might as well open up the market to Uber. You cannot oppose Uber because it's all self regulation and in the same breath lament that the current industry isn't 100% safe because we opened the market up.

    I'd say pick your poison as I don't think we are going to go down the path of a closed market where plates could sell for a huge amount.


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    #109
    vandriver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭vandriver


    Calhoun wrote: »
    My point is more of a counter balance to what the other poster is saying or I think they are saying. I think they are implying that we have it wrong right now and the barriers to entry have created a scenario where the industry is unsafe. The only way to make it safe is by closing the market like before.

    If that's the case and we are saying right now the concerns raised in the thread cannot be addressed then we might as well open up the market to Uber. You cannot oppose Uber because it's all self regulation and in the same breath lament that the current industry isn't 100% safe because we opened the market up.

    I'd say pick your poison as I don't think we are going to go down the path of a closed market where plates could sell for a huge amount.
    The market for the most part is closed.You can't buy or transfer a plate anymore.As a new entrant you either rent or possibly put a wheelchair accessible taxi on the road(a certain number are released every year,subject to government whim )


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    #110
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    vandriver wrote: »
    The market for the most part is closed.You can't buy or transfer a plate anymore.As a new entrant you either rent or possibly put a wheelchair accessible taxi on the road(a certain number are released every year,subject to government whim )

    There are no limits on WAT/WAH licences being issued, likewise there are no limits on limousine licenses. Indeed the NAT could actually decide on a whim to decide they have enough WAT/WAHs for now and start reissuing saloon licences.

    The market is NOT closed.


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    #111
    vandriver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,459 ✭✭✭vandriver


    No limits?
    '...The WAV19 Grant Scheme commences on 01 February 2019 and applications will be considered on a first received basis, subject to an application being satisfactorily completed, until the available funds are expended...'


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    #112
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    vandriver wrote: »
    No limits?
    '...The WAV19 Grant Scheme commences on 01 February 2019 and applications will be considered on a first received basis, subject to an application being satisfactorily completed, until the available funds are expended...'

    That's a limit on grants to wannabe drivers NOT a limit on licenses, you can still get a licence without a grant


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    #113
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    First off, RE read what I said, i said you can be and are fined. Your incorrect assumption that this automatically means being taken off the road is as i say incorrect. Which only goes to show that the vast majority of the public are quite ignorant when it comes to the taxi business.

    and I didnt lie and do not lie.

    Being on the road illegally (can be fined) means are off the road and ignoring it

    Mental gymnastics don't stand up in court


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    #114
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    vandriver wrote: »
    The market for the most part is closed.You can't buy or transfer a plate anymore.As a new entrant you either rent or possibly put a wheelchair accessible taxi on the road(a certain number are released every year,subject to government whim )

    It absolutely is not closed.


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    #115
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    L1011 wrote: »
    Being on the road illegally (can be fined) means are off the road and ignoring it

    Mental gymnastics don't stand up in court

    *sigh*
    If a driver is fined , he is fined, end of. That does NOT mean he or she is off the road


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    #116
    Spook_ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    *sigh*
    If a driver is fined , he is fined, end of. That does NOT mean he or she is off the road

    Think it would be one heck of a chancer if they got pulled for any reason that carried a penalty and then carried on working, perhaps the scale of the fine is too insufficient a deterrent to persuade drivers with faulty meters etc. to go home.

    As regards receipt printers though, the NAT should ensure that if a receipt can't be printed then the meter shouldn't clear down. Some meters already do so, so no reason why they all can't do it.


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    #117
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    *sigh*
    If a driver is fined , he is fined, end of. That does NOT mean he or she is off the road

    If means they're on the road illegally, and were before they got the fine too. That means they are off the road and breaking the rules.

    Give up your mental gymnastics, you are only fooling yourself - if even


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    #118
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Think it would be one heck of a chancer if they got pulled for any reason that carried a penalty and then carried on working, perhaps the scale of the fine is too insufficient a deterrent to persuade drivers with faulty meters etc. to go home.

    As regards receipt printers though, the NAT should ensure that if a receipt can't be printed then the meter shouldn't clear down. Some meters already do so, so no reason why they all can't do it.

    Heres one for you.

    Last month some of the regulators were up in T1. A driver pulled up, on his dash he had his printer with numerous receipts showing from previous jobs he had done earlier that day.

    A regulator fined him for "not giving out receipts after every fare." He was fined there and then,on the spot.
    In my opinion I think the regulator was wrong in this instant. For one the driver was able to issue receipts but the passengers simply didnt want them, so he got fined for that ????
    He wasnt put off the road,he paid the fine and that was that.


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    #119
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    L1011 wrote: »
    If means they're on the road illegally, and were before they got the fine too. That means they are off the road and breaking the rules.

    Give up your mental gymnastics, you are only fooling yourself - if even

    No mental gymnastics, nor do i lie. You can be fined and continue to work.

    I deal in facts, you deal in thinking you know it all from the comfort of your armchair.

    Read what I just posted to Spook.ie of a factual incident that happened at T1

    Bye now.


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    #120
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,697 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Mr.Frame wrote: »
    No mental gymnastics, nor do i lie. You can be fined and continue to work.

    I deal in facts, you deal in thinking you know it all from the comfort of your armchair.

    Read what I just posted to Spook.ie of a factual incident that happened at T1

    Bye now.

    A "factual incident" that sounds like nonsense and isn't even the same to begin with

    Nothing you have said here is trustworthy.


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    #121
    Mr.Frame
    Registered Users Posts: 766 ✭✭✭Mr.Frame


    L1011 wrote: »
    A "factual incident" that sounds like nonsense and isn't even the same to begin with

    Nothing you have said here is trustworthy.


    So I state an actual incident and "you" decide not to believe it.

    Brilliant! Well thats that then!

    Youve been shown up.

    Bye


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