Taxis overcharging on meters via remote fobs

TuringBot47

Anyone see yesterdays Sunday World on taxi overcharging?

Taxi drivers now have remote control fobs that they can click to increase the fare, e.g. add another €2 - €10 on the fare without touching the meter.

https://www.facebook.com/sundayworld1/photos/a.10152033389006600/10157907319931600/?type=3

The NTA caught one of them but reckon there's 400 on the road?

Something to be wary off.

I've messed around with a 433Mhz wifi bridge and a raspberry pi once to scan and control simple home appliances like a wireless doorbell and remote controlled power sockets.

If I could record the remote control signal they used, I could drive around constantly emitting that signal and messing up their fares and making it obvious what they were doing.... hmmm...

Ubbquittious

If you're drunk on a night out or they think you're drunk they'll add things on as well. Snakey bastids so they are

Eric Cartman

more likely a cheap car keyless entry system (radio relay) hooked up to a timer doing an analog speed pulse emulation to make the taxi think its travelling faster and thus run the meter up quicker that way. doubt youd add more than a few cents driving round.

iamtony

I was wondering when this would come up here. As a taxi driver myself I'm pissed because this further tarnishes our reputation. I never even heard of it till the Sunday world story.
I hope he looses his psv licence for ever to make the other drivers who have it think twice.
My guess is this is confined to drivers with an airport permit and used on tourists. Sneaky bastards they are:(

magicbastarder

iamtony wrote: »

I hope he looses his psv licence for ever to make the other drivers who have it think twice.

bollocks to that. it's pure theft, a custodial sentence would be warranted.

Mr.Frame

Eric Cartman wrote: »

more likely a cheap car keyless entry system (radio relay) hooked up to a timer doing an analog speed pulse emulation to make the taxi think its travelling faster and thus run the meter up quicker that way. doubt youd add more than a few cents driving round.

So are you saying if a taxi is doing 100km the price of a fare is going to be more than if the taxi was doing 60km?

L1011

Mr.Frame wrote: »

So are you saying if a taxi is doing 100km the price of a fare is going to be more than if the taxi was doing 60km?

No, he's hypothesing that a unit which is being told it is going faster than the actual vehicle is will think it has gone a further distance.

TuringBot47

Eric Cartman wrote: »

more likely a cheap car keyless entry system (radio relay) hooked up to a timer doing an analog speed pulse emulation to make the taxi think its travelling faster and thus run the meter up quicker that way. doubt youd add more than a few cents driving round.

I actually did a little research, on a taxi forum.

I "think" it's the Digitax meters and they have an optional bluetooth fob.
So it's harder to broadcast a signal, it would need bluetooth pairing.

I think they were able to change the tariffs somehow, maybe through some button combination or change the date/time to emulate a change in tariffs.

Those meters were issued a recall to reflash their firmware I think, to counteract this.

Although really, they shouldn't "need" a bluetooth fob at all.
Everything should be transparent and require manual pushing of buttons on the meter itself.

I wonder if a bluetooth enabled meter would show up on a bluetooth scan...
I could rig a Raspberry Pi W Zero to scan for bluetooth devices as I drive past a taxi rank/heavy traffic/bus lanes.

Each bluetooth device has a unique id including the manufacturers code.
So might be able to rig a "scam meter"...
So much nerdiness, so little time.

L1011

Succesful prosecution:

https://www.thejournal.ie/taxi-driver-remote-control-fares-court-4887210-Nov2019/

Doesn't give the details of precisely what it did, probably for obvious reasons!

magicbastarder

"A TAXI DRIVER ripped off passengers 280 times by secretly using a remote control to add €9 to fares without their knowledge"
"Robert Griffin, 66, of Maplewood Park, Springfield in Tallaght, was fined €750"

steal over €2,500, get fined €750, that's a good day in court for that taxi driver.

Hardtochoose

Utter scum. Incidents like these are why I go out of my way to avoid using taxis in Dublin.if I were a decent hardworking taxi driver I’d be seriously pissed off at these prícks ruining their reputation.

dhaughton99

Does he still have his license?

SeeMoreBut

dhaughton99 wrote: »

Does he still have his license?

Of course he does. Saying he has a heart condition so stopped working. Don't worry he'll be back in his taxi soon. If he has a heart condition how has he a license to drive professional.

Should all professional drivers not have to do some medical to prove they are fit to drive

dhaughton99

I’m sure Minister Ross will come up with a great solution. Like banning Bluetooth or a €9 fine if a driver is caught. But he probably doesn’t give a flying duck.

Patrick2010

Is there a way of checking what the fare for a particular journey should be?, was charged 18 euro for a 15/20 minute trip Baggot street to Rathfarnham last Sunday

Johnny Sausage

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Is there a way of checking what the fare for a particular journey should be?, was charged 18 euro for a 15/20 minute trip Baggot street to Rathfarnham last Sunday

there is a n estimator Here

Patrick2010

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

there is a n estimator Here

Cheers for that, looks like I was charged an average fare


€16.60 - €22.20, according to the estimator. Obviously a while since I last got a taxi from town!

jimmycrackcorm

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

there is a n estimator Here

There's an actual app to track what your fare should be. I'll certainly be using it from now on.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hainva.calltaxi

iamtony

iamtony wrote: »

My guess is this is confined to drivers with an airport permit and used on tourists. Sneaky bastards they are:(

What's so sneaky about the airport drivers that the rest of you are innocent of?

MayoSalmon

Just bring in Uber already...bloody hell when will the rip off republic run its course!

Del2005

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Just bring in Uber already...bloody hell when will the rip off republic run its course!

We already have Uber.

Good jib!

Yeah, Uber's brilliant, as long as you don't give a sh1te about driver welfare.

MayoSalmon

Good jib! wrote: »

Yeah, Uber's brilliant, as long as you don't give a sh1te about driver welfare.

Or.............. because of lobbying by the Irish Taxi Drivers' Federation. Ireland is almost opposed to any form of innovation that disrupts the status quo and thus as consumer we continue to be ripped off in this little republic of ours.

Reati

I'm more bother by the fact he got a fine of only 750 given he overcharged about 2 grand or more.

I think he has done well out of it.

Good jib!

@MayoSalmon

In my experience, taxis in Ireland are cheaper than mainland Europe. In France for example no-one would ever dream of getting a taxi home from the pub/bar, prefering other solutions.

Found this price comparison:

https://www.priceoftravel.com/555/world-taxi-prices-what-a-3-kilometer-ride-costs-in-72-big-cities/

I've nothing against Uber per se, and some competition would be a welcome thing, but only if it's properly regulated and the drivers are paid properly. Just because the Irish Taxi Drivers' Federation is against something doesn't necessarily make it automatically a good thing, even if the ITDF is doing it out of self interest.

Good jib!

Good jib! wrote: »

In my experience, taxis in Ireland are cheaper than mainland Europe. In France for example no-one would ever dream of getting a taxi home from the pub/bar, prefering other solutions.

"Other solutions".............bahhhahahahahahahaha!

Last DART - Midnight
Last Bus - 11:30pm

So, your other solutions are to either get a hotel or walk.

"other solutions"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7acD4q0lp0

MayoSalmon

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Or.............. because of lobbying by the Irish Taxi Drivers' Federation. Ireland is almost opposed to any form of innovation that disrupts the status quo and thus as consumer we continue to be ripped off in this little republic of ours.

No, the gig economy and the companies making billion by screwing (non)employees needs to die a fast death.

I say this as an IT office bound worker with no skin in the game. Just absolute horrid exploitation of people trying to get by

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

"Other solutions".............bahhhahahahahahahaha!

Last DART - Midnight
Last Bus - 11:30pm

So, your other solutions are to either get a hotel or walk.

Socialise locally?
You make the choice to live in one area and socialise in another.

Luas/Drive in, hotel, Luas/Drive home next day is often a great option for (say 3) people.

On topic:

I cannot, for the life of me, fathom how his fine is lower than the charges he made.
As is a cash business (generally) there is no way to get people's money back but surely he should be hit for more than the takings and have his licence revokes (at a minimum)

The only thing which I can think of is that he has provided evidence on the suppliers of the radio remote and other drivers using.

antix80

magicbastarder wrote: »

"A TAXI DRIVER ripped off passengers 280 times by secretly using a remote control to add €9 to fares without their knowledge"
"Robert Griffin, 66, of Maplewood Park, Springfield in Tallaght, was fined €750"

steal over €2,500, get fined €750, that's a good day in court for that taxi driver.

Should be fined €10,000, car crushed into a cube, a criminal record and a 12-month driving ban.

LillySV

TuringBot47 wrote: »

Anyone see yesterdays Sunday World on taxi overcharging?

Taxi drivers now have remote control fobs that they can click to increase the fare, e.g. add another €2 - €10 on the fare without touching the meter.

https://www.facebook.com/sundayworld1/photos/a.10152033389006600/10157907319931600/?type=3

The NTA caught one of them but reckon there's 400 on the road?

Something to be wary off.

I've messed around with a 433Mhz wifi bridge and a raspberry pi once to scan and control simple home appliances like a wireless doorbell and remote controlled power sockets.

If I could record the remote control signal they used, I could drive around constantly emitting that signal and messing up their fares and making it obvious what they were doing.... hmmm...

He was fined €750 if I remember right.... he made way more money out of it than the paltry fine.... should be fined heavily or lose taxi license for a month

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Socialise locally?
You make the choice to live in one area and socialise in another.

Luas/Drive in, hotel, Luas/Drive home next day is often a great option for (say 3) people.

Are you taking the piss? We're talking about the city centre of the capital city here. Anyone living outside the canals is just plain sh!t out of luck when it comes to haing a few jars in town, is that what you're saying? How many theatres, gigs, cinemas, sporting events and bands play in your local area? How safe would you feel walking down Dorset st / Summerhill / Amiens street at half two in the morning with a few gargles in you?

And if you think a hotel for three people is cheaper than a taxi home you are out of your mind.

MayoSalmon

Deleted User wrote: »

No, the gig economy and the companies making billion by screwing (non)employees needs to die a fast death.

I say this as an IT office bound worker with no skin in the game. Just absolute horrid exploitation of people trying to get by

How exactly are they screwing (non)employees?

antix80

antix80 wrote: »

Should be fined €10,000, car crushed into a cube, a criminal record and a 12-month driving ban.

And he should have 30 minutes to move his cube

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you taking the piss? We're talking about the city centre of the capital city here. Anyone living outside the canals is just plain sh!t out of luck when it comes to haing a few jars in town, is that what you're saying? How many theatres, gigs, cinemas, sporting events and bands play in your local area? How safe would you feel walking down Dorset st / Summerhill / Amiens street at half two in the morning with a few gargles in you?

And if you think a hotel for three people is cheaper than a taxi home you are out of your mind.

I lived in Tallaght village, for years and never had issue with the paltry fare it cost us to get home. Making stops at Terenure and Templeogue.

When living in Kildare, we used to hotel it.

vandriver

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There's an actual app to track what your fare should be. I'll certainly be using it from now on.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hainva.calltaxi

Don't forget €2 for a pick up charge(unless street hail) and €1 per extra passenger.

vandriver

vandriver wrote: »

Don't forget €2 for a pick up charge(unless street hail) and €1 per extra passenger.

And beware for that €2 charge being added regardless of a street hail, or not.

vandriver

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And beware for that €2 charge being added regardless of a street hail, or not.

If you stand at the side of the road and get one on the app,which arrives 30 seconds later,that's 2 euro.If you wave you hand....not.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I lived in Tallaght village, for years and never had issue with the paltry fare it cost us to get home. Making stops at Terenure and Templeogue.

When living in Kildare, we used to hotel it.

There's wires getting crossed all over the place here.

Poster 1: "In France, nobody uses taxis and avails of other options"
Me: "we don't have any other options post midnight"
You: "well then just drink locally or else drive and get a hotel hotel"
Me: "It's the city centre, there should be other modes of transport available. Plus hotels are expensive"
You: "€45+ is a paltry fare, also we used to get hotels all the time"


€15 a head to get home is not 'paltry'. It is if you compare it to getting a hotel room for the night that sleeps 3 people cos you're looking at €100+ at a minimum. And that €45 is for a direct route from O'Connell St to the Square, without any stops.

But, the point still stands. Saying we are lucky because our taxi rates are cheap (which they aren't) or that we have other options (we don't) or we can always just get a hotel (we can't) is utter nonsense. The public transport we have in this country is a joke. Even in the capital city, it shuts down 2 hrs before the majority of it is needed. It doesn't even service the airport after 11pm at night, ffs.

galwaytt

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

there is a n estimator Here

Ho Hum - going by the attached, I should have been charged €8 - €12. I was charged €17. Departing Heuston 08:10 btw, and took 45 mins.

What say Ye Who Know ?

galwaytt

Good jib! wrote: »

Yeah, Uber's brilliant, as long as you don't give a sh1te about driver welfare.

Indeed.

Or insurance.

I'd love to see some of their drivers' insurance policies and scrutinise the 'Classes of Use' on them....

punisher5112

galwaytt wrote: »

Ho Hum - going by the attached, I should have been charged €8 - €12. I was charged €17. Departing Heuston 08:10 btw, and took 45 mins.

What say Ye Who Know ?

So more time, more money... Simples.

Del2005

MayoSalmon wrote: »

Or.............. because of lobbying by the Irish Taxi Drivers' Federation. Ireland is almost opposed to any form of innovation that disrupts the status quo and thus as consumer we continue to be ripped off in this little republic of ours.

What innovation has Uber made? It hasn't made a profit and is burning through cash. The business model isn't sustainable and if they beat out the taxis they will increase their prices, as eventually the investors will want their money back.

vandriver

punisher5112 wrote: »

So more time, more money... Simples.

It quotes 12 quid for heavy traffic (28 minutes).Slow traffic is charged at 41c per minutes.17 extra minutes equals 7 euro extra(worst case).
Taxi fares are charged either as c per minute(below 21 kmh) or c per km(over 21 kmh)

suicide_circus

magicbastarder wrote: »

"A TAXI DRIVER ripped off passengers 280 times by secretly using a remote control to add €9 to fares without their knowledge"
"Robert Griffin, 66, of Maplewood Park, Springfield in Tallaght, was fined €750"

steal over €2,500, get fined €750, that's a good day in court for that taxi driver.

utterly jaw dropping

Mr.Frame

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There's an actual app to track what your fare should be. I'll certainly be using it from now on.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.hainva.calltaxi

I wouldnt rely on that at all.

READ the print , it says it is an "estimate fare" and "not " a guarantee of the fare.

Whatever is on the meter is what the passenger is obliged to pay.

Challenging a driver at the end of a journey and producing your app showing what it thinks is the right fare, will cause trouble.

For example , a journey (one person) from Dublin airport with no traffic to O Connell st is approx., 20 euro.

A relative of mine got a taxi some months back,the traffic was a nightmare from DA to O Connell st and the fare far exceeded the 20 euro.
It was a legitimate fare and he paid it willingly.

Mr.Frame

galwaytt wrote: »

Indeed.

Or insurance.

I'd love to see some of their drivers' insurance policies and scrutinise the 'Classes of Use' on them....

What do you mean? Can you elaborate on that?

Mr.Frame

iamtony wrote: »

I was wondering when this would come up here. As a taxi driver myself I'm pissed because this further tarnishes our reputation. I never even heard of it till the Sunday world story.
I hope he looses his psv licence for ever to make the other drivers who have it think twice.
My guess is this is confined to drivers with an airport permit and used on tourists. Sneaky bastards they are:(

So hang on, your opening comment says, "As a taxi driver myself Im pissed off because this tarnishes our reputation."

You then go on to tarnish fellow drivers who work the airport.

Thats hypocritical if ever there was a case.

The vast majority of drivers who work Dublin airport are decent hard working HONEST people.

You should withdraw your comment

Mr.Frame

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Is there a way of checking what the fare for a particular journey should be?, was charged 18 euro for a 15/20 minute trip Baggot street to Rathfarnham last Sunday

The vast majority of drivers are decent and honest. Isolated incidents like the one mentioned, gives drivers a bad name and it effectively tarnished them all, which is wrong.

Regarding your fare, 18 euro is about right for that journey. You have to remember also that on Sundays Bank holidays and after 8pm in the evenings the taxi meter rate is premium. In other words it may be a little more expensive that if you took your journey on a weekday or before 8pm, (by about a couple of euro,)
Those fare estimates online or apps are exactly that an "estimate" and shouldnt be taken as being correct.

magicbastarder

Mr.Frame wrote: »

Whatever is on the meter is what the passenger is obliged to pay.

uh... in the context of a story where hundreds (and possibly thousands) of people have been illegally overcharged by fiddling of meters - suggesting that people should not challenge what might appear to be a dodgy fare, is kinda funny.

Mr.Frame

magicbastarder wrote: »

uh... in the context of a story where hundreds (and possibly thousands) of people have been illegally overcharged by fiddling of meters - suggesting that people should not challenge what might appear to be a dodgy fare, is kinda funny.

Forgetting of course that the vast majority of drivers are honest and dont overcharge.

At the end of any journey you can ask for a printed receipt and if you feel you were overcharged, then you can make the appropriate compliant to the NTA, all details will be on the receipt.