Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

westtip · 23-09-2018 9:33pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2018/0923/995623-rally-tuam-greenway/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7HYPNRAjwA&feature=youtu.be

Great coverage!

Lord Glentoran · 23-09-2018 9:38pm

Nice pics, but ‘thousands’?

Muckyboots · 23-09-2018 10:27pm

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Nice pics, but ‘thousands’?

The Gardaí called it about 3,000. Tuam Herald quoted 2,000. RTE and TG4 "several thousand" and they were there. It wasn't an event where everyone was in one place at one time.

Del.Monte · 23-09-2018 10:30pm

Sure there were 3,000 - looked more like 300. :rolleyes:

Muckyboots · 23-09-2018 10:35pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Sure there were 3,000 - looked more like 300. :rolleyes:

You'll be delighted to hear that there was a pro-rail counter protest. Seriously. No disputing the attendance - it was one. Poor lad had placard with " No to Greenway. Canney Out". Got his wires crossed. It wasn't you Del. Was it?

MayoForSam · 23-09-2018 10:48pm

I was there with many of my neighbors and friends and the numbers represented a very sizable proportion of the town of Tuam and surrounding areas - we are fed up of politicians thinking they know what's good for us. I would be very nervous if I was a local councilor voting 'No' tomorrow. Why are they so afraid of a feasibility study?

Numbers were substantially more than attended the 'Extend the WRC' rally anyhow. Oh wait...

westtip · 23-09-2018 11:44pm

MayoForSam wrote: »

I was there with many of my neighbors and friends and the numbers represented a very sizable proportion of the town of Tuam and surrounding areas - we are fed up of politicians thinking they know what's good for us. I would be very nervous if I was a local councilor voting 'No' tomorrow. Why are so afraid of a feasibility study?

Numbers were substantially more than attended the 'Extend the WRC' rally anyhow. Oh wait...

MFS didnt meet up couldnt find you in the crowd, it was an amazing day dont you know why they are afraid its because the western rail corridor "is not up for discussion"

Dont you just love the sour grapes! lets stick to the RTE figure
What was it "Thousands attend rally in support of Galway greenway" cos guess what that is what is going down in the record books that is what the media are reporting and that is what is going to be written in history, now of course the vote may be lost tomorrow in truth that is not the issue what is the issue is that this rally sent the message - the greenway movement put thousands on the street, we are not going away!

eastwest · 24-09-2018 7:51am

westtip wrote: »

MFS didnt meet up couldnt find you in the crowd, it was an amazing day dont you know why they are afraid its because the western rail corridor "is not up for discussion"

Dont you just love the sour grapes! lets stick to the RTE figure
What was it "Thousands attend rally in support of Galway greenway" cos guess what that is what is going down in the record books that is what the media are reporting and that is what is going to be written in history, now of course the vote may be lost tomorrow in truth that is not the issue what is the issue is that this rally sent the message - the greenway movement put thousands on the street, we are not going away!

It may take a bigger crowd before a few councillors get it into their heads that the vast majority don't believe the railway nonsense and want a greenway for the next few decades while we wait for the population to double and the electric vehicle trend to fail.
We're talking about a number of dyed in the wool local politicians here, not exactly deep thinkers. Never underestimate the power of thick.

westtip · 24-09-2018 8:38am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Sure there were 3,000 - looked more like 300. :rolleyes:

Maybe you should write an angry letter to Galway Bay FM, TG4, RTE and any other media output that fails to agree with you, history will say thousands, thousands who went will say thousands, it is now posted up on You Tube for history to watch and listen to! don't you just love the truth from the media.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/thousands-attend-tuam-rally-in-support-of-greenway/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbsZ4bHI7tw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7HYPNRAjwA&t=45s

eastwest · 24-09-2018 8:58am

westtip wrote: »

Maybe you should write an angry letter to Galway Bay FM, TG4, RTE and any other media output that fails to agree with you, history will say thousands, thousands who went will say thousands, it is now posted up on You Tube for history to watch and listen to! don't you just love the truth from the media.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/thousands-attend-tuam-rally-in-support-of-greenway/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbsZ4bHI7tw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7HYPNRAjwA&t=45s

In fact, if you add in the number of people who commute from Athenry to Galway, there were probably a million people in Tuam yesterday.

westtip · 24-09-2018 10:18am

westtip wrote: »

Maybe you should write an angry letter to Galway Bay FM, TG4, RTE and any other media output that fails to agree with you, history will say thousands, thousands who went will say thousands, it is now posted up on You Tube for history to watch and listen to! don't you just love the truth from the media.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/thousands-attend-tuam-rally-in-support-of-greenway/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbsZ4bHI7tw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7HYPNRAjwA&t=45s

Del Monte you can midwest to your mailing list for angry letter about 3000

http://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/26416-thousands-turn-out-in-tuam-yesterday-campaigning-for-a-greenway-from-athenry-to-milltown

Del.Monte · 24-09-2018 11:08am

westtip wrote: »

Del Monte you can midwest to your mailing list for angry letter about 3000

http://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/26416-thousands-turn-out-in-tuam-yesterday-campaigning-for-a-greenway-from-athenry-to-milltown

I'm not even mildly annoyed at this stage. I've had plenty of trips on the Athenry/Claremorris section, including a run over most of the Beet factory lines,
plus an inspection car trip from Collooney/Claremorris and my train spotters notebook has all the ticks that it needs. Roll on the Velorail to Londonderry.

mayo.mick · 24-09-2018 11:11am

Del.Monte · 24-09-2018 11:18am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaMK8d61dMY

eastwest · 24-09-2018 11:49am

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm not even mildly annoyed at this stage. I've had plenty of trips on the Athenry/Claremorris section, including a run over most of the Beet factory lines,
plus an inspection car trip from Collooney/Claremorris and my train spotters notebook has all the ticks that it needs. Roll on the Velorail to Londonderry.

Careful with the 'London' bit, comrade. Don't you know that the whole western rail corridor arose from the relocation of 'republicans' from DERRY to Ennis during the early stages of the troubles? Somebody apparently decided that it would be great if they could get a train home to their mammies without having to go through Belfast, and so the seed was sown.

eastwest · 24-09-2018 11:51am

Del.Monte wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaMK8d61dMY

Do they still have that little yellow car? It would be ideal on the Ennis Athenry line, instead of hauling all those empty carriages around the country.

Lord Glentoran · 24-09-2018 7:48pm

eastwest wrote: »

Do they still have that little yellow car? It would be ideal on the Ennis Athenry line, instead of hauling all those empty carriages around the country.

I hear Pravda have gone downhill since the good old days.

eastwest · 24-09-2018 8:13pm

The greenway movement was well outflanked by sinn fein/west on track in the Galway Council chamber today. A motion to carry out a feasibility study on the Athenry Milltown section of the WRT was passed by a substantial vote but immediately scuppered by another motion calling for the study to effectively examine the feasibility of running a greenway to every door in Galway! The second motion was passed, effectively negating the first. The consequent delay will.effectively delay matters for long enough to exclude Galway from available funding under the national greenway strategy, which was probably the whole point of the exercise.
There's now no doubt that WOT is no longer about trains, they're about stopping any information gathering on alternative or interim uses of closed lines.
It's no wonder the west needs saving!

24-09-2018 8:27pm

Every time they pull a stroke the support for the greenway gets bigger, louder and angrier.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, a delaying action is only that, a delay. It nevers stops the inevitable.

A day or two to recuperate and the next step is to focus on the elections

end of the road · 24-09-2018 8:30pm

eastwest wrote: »

Do they still have that little yellow car? It would be ideal on the Ennis Athenry line, instead of hauling all those empty carriages around the country.

the empty carriges that aren't empty? there is no ennis athenry only service but a limeric-galway service, and limerick-ennis service.

marno21 · 24-09-2018 8:37pm

If the representatives of the west spent time seeking realistic useful investment it would be great for the region

The amount of politicians who believe that the economic solution for the west of Ireland is an electrified rail link from Sligo to Waterford via Limerick to haul freight trains is ridiculous. Added to the fact that the blame the lack of the above as the reason the west is struggling

eastwest · 24-09-2018 8:45pm

marno21 wrote: »

If the representatives of the west spent time seeking realistic useful investment it would be great for the region

The amount of politicians who believe that the economic solution for the west of Ireland is an electrified rail link from Sligo to Waterford via Limerick to haul freight trains is ridiculous. Added to the fact that the blame the lack of the above as the reason the west is struggling

As I said yesterday, never underestimate the power of thick.

Grandeeod · 24-09-2018 8:48pm

end of the road wrote: »

the empty carriges that aren't empty? there is no ennis athenry only service but a limeric-galway service, and limerick-ennis service.

Some spin there.:eek: The trains are empty between Ennis-Athenry-Ennis. I've been on it so many times and felt so angry. There's heavily discounted fares and free car parks, while the rest of us pay top dollar fares and car park charges. The WRC is subsidized to the hilt right down to the basics of getting there. The WRC passenger numbers are fiddled. It was and still is the deathknell of future rail development in Ireland. Your posts are literally drivel. Now before you hit the report post button, please try and remember that I've attacked your posts and not you.:eek:

As for the silly and petty carry on re the Greenway Vs railway, the railway side look like a right bunch of thick idiots with no comprehension of doing anything remotely good for the region.

eastwest · 24-09-2018 8:58pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Some spin there.:eek: The trains are empty between Ennis-Athenry-Ennis. I've been on it so many times and felt so angry. There's heavily discounted fares and free car parks, while the rest of us pay top dollar fares and car park charges. The WRC is subsidized to the hilt right down to the basics of getting there. The WRC passenger numbers are fiddled. It was and still is the deathknell of future rail development in Ireland. Your posts are literally drivel. Now before you hit the report post button, please try and remember that I've attacked your posts and not you.:eek:

As for the silly and petty carry on re the Greenway Vs railway, the railway side look like a right bunch of thick idiots with no comprehension of doing anything remotely good for the region.

And don't forget the other hidden subsidies, the 'free' travel tickets paid for by the Department of social protection, and the one million euro spent annually on bus transfers when the line floods -- one sixth of all replacement bus spending in the entire country.

end of the road · 24-09-2018 8:59pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Some spin there. The trains are empty between Ennis-Athenry-Ennis. I've been on it so many times and felt so angry. There's heavily discounted fares and free car parks, while the rest of us pay top dollar fares and car park charges. The WRC is subsidized to the hilt right down to the basics of getting there. The WRC passenger numbers are fiddled. It was and still is the deathknell of future rail development in Ireland.

more accurately it's only used as an excuse to not do something many politicians never wanted to do anyway. develop rail. if it wasn't the wrc it would have been something else.

Grandeeod · 24-09-2018 9:21pm

end of the road wrote: »

more accurately it's only used as an excuse to not do something many politicians never wanted to do anyway. develop rail. if it wasn't the wrc it would have been something else.

In terms of the current rail network, Where? The WRC is a blatant example of politicians developing the rail network in a very poor manner.

Isambard · 24-09-2018 9:34pm

end of the road wrote: »

the empty carriges that aren't empty? there is no ennis athenry only service but a limeric-galway service, and limerick-ennis service.

but the Galway to Athenry is also part of the Dublin service . I suspect those passengers have been claimed for the WRC , and some of them will only do Athenry to Galway and return and were doing before the line re-opened.

Del.Monte · 24-09-2018 10:22pm

marno21 wrote: »

If the representatives of the west spent time seeking realistic useful investment it would be great for the region

The amount of politicians who believe that the economic solution for the west of Ireland is an electrified rail link from Sligo to Waterford via Limerick to haul freight trains is ridiculous. Added to the fact that the blame the lack of the above as the reason the west is struggling

Well, the lack of a rail service can't be benefiting the region either. Places like Tuam are off my list of places to visit just the same as vast swathes of the north-west. I can't remember the last time that I was in places like Cavan, Monaghan, Clones, Enniskillen etc....

eastwest · 24-09-2018 10:24pm

Isambard wrote: »

but the Galway to Athenry is also part of the Dublin service . I suspect those passengers have been claimed for the WRC , and some of them will only do Athenry to Galway and return and were doing before the line re-opened.

The vast majority of the figures quoted by WOT relate to passenger numbers on Ennis-Limerick and Athenry-Galway, lines that were there before the boom-era government threw a pile of money at the bit in the middle, a bit that so far has hit just 50% of it's promised numbers. Specifically, 130,000 against a promised 250,000.

eastwest · 24-09-2018 10:37pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Well, the lack of a rail service can't be benefiting the region either. Places like Tuam are off my list of places to visit just the same as vast swathes of the north-west. I can't remember the last time that I was in places like Cavan, Monaghan, Clones, Enniskillen etc....

Dungarvan and Kilmacthomas don't have a rail service, but an awful lot of people visited them last year.
Gort, on the other hand doesn't get many visitors nowadays.

end of the road · 24-09-2018 11:13pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

In terms of the current rail network, Where?

i couldn't say for definite, but i'm going to go with either lj-waterford, limerick ballybroaphy and possibly rosslare as well, if i'm being asked to pick a line or lines. but it could possibly be anywhere.

Grandeeod wrote: »

The WRC is a blatant example of politicians developing the rail network in a very poor manner.

in the form it took, i'd agree. in general though, a through limerick-galway service does in my view have a lot of potential for usership, but it needed to be done right. the reopening of intermediat stations like adrahan etc shouldn't have happened, the ennis-athenry section should have been reopened as a non-stop through route serving ennis, athenry and galway only.

JCX BXC · 24-09-2018 11:16pm

end of the road wrote: »

i couldn't say for definite, but i'm going to go with either lj-waterford, limerick ballybroaphy and possibly rosslare as well, if i'm being asked to pick a line or lines. but it could possibly be anywhere.

in the form it took, i'd agree. in general though, a through limerick-galway service does in my view have a lot of potential for usership, but it needed to be done right. the reopening of intermediat stations like adrahan etc shouldn't have happened, the ennis-athenry section should have been reopened as a non-stop through route serving ennis, athenry and galway only.

Gort at least has partial sense, has an actual usership (compared to Ardrahan and Craughwell, where in most stops the doors don't open), makes more sense than Attymon at least

end of the road · 24-09-2018 11:20pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Gort at least has partial sense, has an actual usership (compared to Ardrahan and Craughwell, where in most stops the doors don't open), makes more sense than Attymon at least

fair enough.
i presume Attymon exists as the railhead for the former loughrea branch stations though so that's why it's still open.

westtip · 24-09-2018 11:33pm

What happened today in Galway coco was entirely predictable Sinn Fein/West on Track plotted this one out in Claremorris. But this time West on Track I think have played a dumb hand, they are now despised in Tuam/Athenry, I mean despised, the anger is mounting and what's more a lot of that anger is coming from ordinary people, nobody is listening to West on Track anymore, they are finished, the whole thing now is about stopping the greenway, it is sad really because the greenway will happen, unfornatelyl all those cllrs did today was deny any chance of getting a cut of the funding out there and available now, I do hope all the vitriol I am hearing comes to pass, no harm to see some of he flabby white boys kicked out on their arses.

eastwest · 25-09-2018 8:10am

westtip wrote: »

What happened today in Galway coco was entirely predictable Sinn Fein/West on Track plotted this one out in Claremorris. But this time West on Track I think have played a dumb hand, they are now despised in Tuam/Athenry, I mean despised, the anger is mounting and what's more a lot of that anger is coming from ordinary people, nobody is listening to West on Track anymore, they are finished, the whole thing now is about stopping the greenway, it is sad really because the greenway will happen, unfornatelyl all those cllrs did today was deny any chance of getting a cut of the funding out there and available now, I do hope all the vitriol I am hearing comes to pass, no harm to see some of he flabby white boys kicked out on their arses.

The reality is that the original motion to examine the feasibility of putting a greenway on the disused rail line from Athenry to Milltown was passed by a significant margin. Clever politicking by West on track managed to frustrate the original motion sufficiently to effectively keep Galway outside the funding deadline, but it won't bring them a railway, it just deferred the greenway for now.
The tide has turned however, and the wot councillors in Galway put their heads above the parapet yesterday and are facing annihilation next May as a result. The dam is leaking badly now and wot hasn't a big enough finger to stick in it.
Wot is now the proverbial headless chicken, running around pointlessly and not realising it's already dead. It's main function now is stopping greenways, not really a good reason to stay in business.

schemingbohemia · 25-09-2018 11:28am

Could you put a list of how each councillor voted on here?

eastwest · 25-09-2018 11:50am

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Could you put a list of how each councillor voted on here?

I don't have it, the minutes won't be available until close to the next meeting.
Perhaps somebody who was in the Chamber might oblige?

Muckyboots · 25-09-2018 9:38pm

eastwest wrote: »

The reality is that the original motion to examine the feasibility of putting a greenway on the disused rail line from Athenry to Milltown was passed by a significant margin. Clever politicking by West on track managed to frustrate the original motion sufficiently to effectively keep Galway outside the funding deadline, but it won't bring them a railway, it just deferred the greenway for now.
The tide has turned however, and the wot councillors in Galway put their heads above the parapet yesterday and are facing annihilation next May as a result. The dam is leaking badly now and wot hasn't a big enough finger to stick in it.
Wot is now the proverbial headless chicken, running around pointlessly and not realising it's already dead. It's main function now is stopping greenways, not really a good reason to stay in business.

West on Track have succeeded in muddying the waters, exposing themselves as the dinnasours of western Irish politics, pissing off the growing Greenway support network, embarrassing the county executives, given a launch pad for prospective Greenway candidates in Athenry, Loughrea and Ballinasloe and emboldening the activists. Fair play lads. We'll played and thank you.

sonnyblack · 27-09-2018 7:48am

Can anyone give me a brief description about what happened at the meeting?

1. What was the exact motion?
2. Was there a debate?
3. What was the result and who voted which way?

Sorry to be a pain but i'd like to fully understand what went on.

Thanks

Muckyboots · 27-09-2018 8:15am

sonnyblack wrote: »

Can anyone give me a brief description about what happened at the meeting?

1. What was the exact motion?
2. Was there a debate?
3. What was the result and who voted which way?

Sorry to be a pain but i'd like to fully understand what went on.

Thanks

Best to wait for the minutes to be put live and have a link posted here. Even the people involved in framing motions and counter motions don't seem to be sure what they have done. They may inadvertently have the Connemara Greenway mothballed with the Athenry-Tuam-Milltown one without realising what they were doing. It'll depend on how it's minuted.

eastwest · 27-09-2018 9:53am

Muckyboots wrote: »

Best to wait for the minutes to be put live and have a link posted here. Even the people involved in framing motions and counter motions don't seem to be sure what they have done. They may inadvertently have the Connemara Greenway mothballed with the Athenry-Tuam-Milltown one without realising what they were doing. It'll depend on how it's minuted.

A source inside council executive circles in the west tells me that it does indeed look this way. The spoiler motion appears to have locked all greenway projects in the county out of the funding process. The only exception appears to be the Athlone Galway greenway which was specifically excluded.
That's bad enough from the overall county point of view, but there is also a fear among the higher echelons in Galway that this monumental cockup might be just the straw that tips the scales in the debate around the amalgamation of city and county, not a popular option for senior clerks who would see a whole bloc of highly paid promotional opportunities wiped out at the stroke of a pen.
Given the undoubted possibility there may have been some tacit support for the spoiler motion by WOT supporters in executive circles, this could yet turn into an enormous backfire for them.
This will be interesting as it develops.

27-09-2018 10:37am

The editorial in the Galway Advertiser pulls no punches regarding the disgusting antics by the county Council

eastwest · 27-09-2018 11:15am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The editorial in the Galway Advertiser pulls no punches regarding the disgusting antics by the county Council

Other stuff in the same vein in local media. The press in Galway has (albeit belatedly) turned on wot. This episode was a major own goal for them from start to finish.

TCDStudent1 · 27-09-2018 12:02pm

eastwest wrote: »

Other stuff in the same vein in local media. The press in Galway has (albeit belatedly) turned on wot. This episode was a major own goal for them from start to finish.

The are getting slated all sides about it. It has also got a lot more local people talking about the Greenway than there were previously. A lot of anger out there.

serfboard · 27-09-2018 6:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The editorial in the Galway Advertiser

That's a great line:

The Galway Advertiser wrote:

Nobody marched for the trains that are not coming back.

There is some more information about the meeting also in The Advertiser:

The Galway Advertiser wrote:

At County Hall on Monday, councillors had voted 18 in favour and 17 against a counter motion proposed by Cllr Jimmy McClearn ‘that Galway County Council seek funding from the Department of Transport for a feasibility study of all options for a greenway in the county to link a national greenway route to include Clifden, Tuam, Athenry, Oranmore, Loughrea, Gort, Ballinasloe, Portumna, Headford, Glenamaddy, Clarinbridge... in what would be a greenway master plan for the county’.

The carrying of this motion resulted in Cllr Donagh Killilea’s motion ... becoming null and void.

Cllr Roche termed the counter motion as “extremely mischievous” and said the manner in which the voting process was carried out in the chamber on Monday left a lot to be desired. “It [the counter motion] was a deliberate attempt to make sure the feasibility study never saw the light of day as some just do not want the rail line touched."

Well played Canney/WOT - ye got your wish and The Greenway is delayed - but if you think this will bring back the trains, you are mistaken.

Then again, I think it's Dog In The Manger from WOT - they know it won't be used for trains, but they're trying to prevent it being used for anything else.

Corca Baiscinn · 27-09-2018 6:40pm

sonnyblack wrote: »

Can anyone give me a brief description about what happened at the meeting?

1. What was the exact motion?
2. Was there a debate?
3. What was the result and who voted which way?

Sorry to be a pain but i'd like to fully understand what went on.

Thanks

If you're on FB the Quiet Man Greenway Page has various accounts of what happened including the motion and counter-motion if I remember right and a list of who voted for what but there are different interpretations of what the motion means or whether it can be rescinded. Some seem to think the amendment could be declared invalid and others disagree

Accidentally · 29-09-2018 1:15pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Well, the lack of a rail service can't be benefiting the region either. Places like Tuam are off my list of places to visit just the same as vast swathes of the north-west. I can't remember the last time that I was in places like Cavan, Monaghan, Clones, Enniskillen etc....

Can you only leave the country by boat?

end of the road · 29-09-2018 1:31pm

Accidentally wrote: »

Can you only leave the country by boat?

i didn't know tuam and cavan were in a different country. i thought they were in ireland, so no leaving the country or boats required.

CrabRevolution · 29-09-2018 7:33pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Well, the lack of a rail service can't be benefiting the region either. Places like Tuam are off my list of places to visit just the same as vast swathes of the north-west. I can't remember the last time that I was in places like Cavan, Monaghan, Clones, Enniskillen etc....

It's fair to say that that's more an issue with you than any transport system.

The number of people who disregard the 98% of the country that's outside walking distance from a train station is minimal.

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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